Windows 10 can-of-worms
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Is that second one something I just thought of, perchance?
No, it's basically making a special shortcut that would be interpreted by the Start Menu as a "don't show", so it acts like the shortcut is actually deleted for that user only.
But then again, that would be doing something completely opposite what the intended action is (deleting the shortcut), and it wouldn't handle other changes to the shortcut (e.g. renaming).
Also:
admin permission is required to delete it
It already has that:
Yeah, the shield isn't very descriptive by itself, but after the first few times, the user should understand what it means when they see it.
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And then if you hit Yes, you get the UAC elevation as normal. Hit No, and nothing changes.
And wait for someone to post on here complaining about it?
Two message boxes just to delete a shortcut would be daft.
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I want to like Windows 10. I really do. I've always been eager to get the newest version of anything, as soon as I can. Windows 8 and 10 have broken me of that behavior.
Oh whee, I look forward to this.
I want to like Windows 10. I really do.
I wager you do not. I wager you want Windows 7 all over again. And again. And again. And you want nothing to change ever. Let's see how my guess holds up.
(Note: Some of these problems may have originated in Windows 8, but very few people use Win 8 and so this is written from the viewpoint of a person going from XP or Win 7 --> to Win10)
More people are using Windows 8 right now than have EVER used Ubuntu. You might argue it's less popular than Windows 7, and you'd be right, but saying "very few people use Win 8" is clearly bullshit.
Recycle Bin -- Right click on the Recycle Bin. First item on the list is "Open", second item is "Empty Recycle Bin". It's been that way for as long as there has been a Recycle Bin.
Welcome to Windows 10 where the second item on the menu is no longer "Empty Recycle Bin". It has been replaced with "Pin to Quick Access" and "Empty Recycle Bin" is now third. So now, every time I want to empty the Recycle Bin, I pin it to the Quick Access folder instead. 20 years of muscle memory out the window. And for what? A "feature" whose usefulness is highly questionable. Little things are important.
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Why the fuck would anybody empty the Recycle Bin? Ever?
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If this is the most severe problem you can think of, it sounds like Windows 10 is going to be great.
Does this back up my theory that all you want is to see Windows 7 over and over again? Yes.
Windows Explorer -- Now renamed to File Explorer.
Gasp! You'll give me the vapors!
The biggest change is the replacement of the menu bar, that has been standard on all Windows programs for 20 years, with the God Awful Ribbon®.
I can already see you're an open-minded considerate person, and not just a grumpy grandpa who hates all types of change. If you're just going to knee-jerk against the ribbon without even considering the ways it's superior to the previous mess of menus and toolbars, well, then there's no real point bothering to listen to your opinion, is there?
In any case, this stuff is all in Windows 8 so I'm ignoring it.
The Start Menu -- Windows 10's big claim to fame is The Return Of The Start Menu.
Don't believe the hype. All you get is a faux Start Menu that is nearly useless and lacks most of the functionality found in the real Start Menu of Windows 7 (and earlier).
Like what?
Fortunately, there's a free program called Classic Shell that gives you a real honest-to-goodness Start Menu, just like God intended.
God designed Windows 7?
In any case, I'd like to point out, again, we're all reading the rants of a person who never actually even attempted to use the OS he's criticizing! He just installed a piece of "grumpy old man"-ware to make it go back to how it was in the good ol' days when men were men and women were women and you could buy a cheeseburger for a nickel, consarn it!!
Oh but look:
However, having to resort to third part addons to fix things that never should have been changed in the first place,
He had to install it. I guess someone held a gun to his head and said, "you better install this to get your classic start menu back, or I'll shoot all your Naruto action figures!"
He had to! He wanted to actually spend a few minutes learning to use the new OS concepts, but no, he couldn't. Because he had to install Classic Shell.
and the fact that Windows XP (now nearly 14 years old), has a better, more functional Start Menu than Windows 10, is just another sad commentary on the truly awful UI that is Windows 10.
I think it's more a commentary on your aging ossified brain, and how it refuses to learn anything new.
New Security Model -- And you thought UAC was annoying.
No I didn't.
You ain't seen nothin' yet. Windows Vista introduced the concept of The Administrator Who Isn't Really An Administrator and now Microsoft has pulled out all the stops in their effort to make Windows 10 the most annoying OS ever.
Welcome to Windows 10, The OS Where Nothing Is Allowed. Everything you do will result in a dialog box telling you that you "Don't Have Permission". And I do mean EVERYTHING. Even something as trivial as deleting an item from the faux Start Menu triggers a dialog requiring you to Click Here To Provide Authorization.
If the item was on the computer's "All Users" Start Menu and not the user's, then yes: of course it requires UAC, duh. How else could it work? You're not allowed to shit over other people's Start menu without at least providing some Admin creds.
It does the same thing your beloved Windows 7, too.
Want to unzip a bunch of files to a folder that doesn't exist? No problem. Just give WinRAR the name you want and it will create the destination folder for you. Oops. Sorry. You're running Windows 10. The operation will fail. Even if you tell winrar.exe to "Run as Administrator". So you have to use File Explorer to create the destination directory first, then unrar or unzip into it.
I do not believe you.
Since you're such an old crotchety elderly geezer, I'm guessing you're trying to unzip into something like System32 (because doggonit that's where we put our files in NT 3.5 and that's where I'm putting it now! Fiddlesticks!)
So I might believe you if you provided the experience of unzipping into a folder you actually have ownership of. But given what I've seen of your opinions so far, I do not believe you.
Try to create a shortcut in certain directories? Sorry not allowed, but Windows will (un)helpfully offer to create the shortcut on the desktop instead. And then, you can drag the shortcut from the desktop to the location where you really want it. That works just fine. My head is starting to hurt.
See above.
I did manage to eliminate most of this nonsense by running a script that changes the permissions on every file and directory on my computer. Another shining example of how Microsoft is going that extra mile to make you hate your computer.
Huh? This doesn't even make sense. Did Microsoft make this script? Did they require you to run it?
It seems to me that you had your mind made up about Windows 10 long before you even downloaded it.
Note to Microsoft: I don't have permission?? IT'S MY F***ING COMPUTER!!
Unless you're a crazy-person who absolutely loves to see your favorite web sites get DDoS'ed and wants the Russian Mafia to be hugely financially successful, I don't see how you could possibly object to this.
Whoever is responsible for this nonsense should be killed to death repeatedly.
Yes, death threats are absolutely a rational reaction to a company shipping a secured OS.
Yes, I know, there are parents with small, unruly children and businesses with small, unruly employees, who need this sort of "security". That's fine. But that's your problem, not mine. Stop making it my problem.
It is actually your problem, you just seem too ignorant of the big beautiful world around you to realize it.
Nobody touches my computer but me, and if you aren't going to give me a way to easily turn this crap off, then you really need to FOAD.
Look, if you hate change so much, why the fuck did you even download Windows 10? What did you expect to find?
"Microsoft hasn't stopped all development work and shipped an OS identical to the one I already use! I AM SO ANGRY OVER THIS!"
If you love Windows 7 so much, just keep using it. Idiot.
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More people are using Windows 8 right now than have EVER used Ubuntu.
And if new computers didn't come with Win8 pre-loaded, more people would be using Ubuntu than Win8, even if you have to either install Ubuntu yourself or go out-of-your-way to buy a machine pre-loaded with Ubuntu.Your statistics means nothing, like most statistics
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And if new computers didn't come with Win8 pre-loaded, more people would be using Ubuntu than Win8, even if you have to either install Ubuntu yourself or go out-of-your-way to buy a machine pre-loaded with Ubuntu.
The value quoted didn't consider why they used it, it only stated "very few" people used it. Which is clearly wrong.
I stand by what I typed.
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if new computers didn't come with Win8 pre-loaded, more people would be using Ubuntu than Win8
Laugh harder – 00:09
— Pop-Culture Reference Johnson
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Note to Microsoft: I don't have permission?? IT'S MY F***ING COMPUTER!! Whoever is responsible for this nonsense should be killed to death repeatedly. Yes, I know, there are parents with small, unruly children and businesses with small, unruly employees, who need this sort of "security". That's fine. But that's your problem, not mine. Stop making it my problem. Nobody touches my computer but me, and if you aren't going to give me a way to easily turn this crap off, then you really need to FOAD.
The underlying mechanism behind most of what you're complaining about (UAC) has been there in various degrees of intrusiveness since Vista.
If you want a more XP-like experience, where your administrator account can do anything it likes by default, you can still get that in post-Vista versions by re-enabling the inbuilt Administrator user account. UAC appears to treat this one differently from any other member of the Administrators security group: rather than logging on with a restrictive security token and requiring processes to request a permissive one when they needs it, Administrator gets a permissive security token by default.
Post-Vista versions of Windows disable the ability to log on as Administrator by default, but it's fairly easy to get it back: log on as any member of Administrators, run a cmd shell as an administrator, and enter
net user Administrator * /active:yes
and enter a new password when prompted.
There are a few things scattered around the filesystem and the Registry that don't have Full Control permissions for Administrators by default (often these are things supposed to be used only by SYSTEM or TrustedInstaller) but if you don't want that level of protection it's pretty easy to take ownership and/or grant permissions as the need arises.
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Translation: I don't like change!
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Change is expensive, and properly ought to be resisted if done purely for its own sake, as opposed to being done for the sake of actual improvement.
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New Security Model -- And you thought UAC was annoying. You ain't seen nothin' yet. Windows Vista introduced the concept of The Administrator Who Isn't Really An Administrator and now Microsoft has pulled out all the stops in their effort to make Windows 10 the most annoying OS ever.
Welcome to Windows 10, The OS Where Nothing Is Allowed. Everything you do will result in a dialog box telling you that you "Don't Have Permission". And I do mean EVERYTHING. Even something as trivial as deleting an item from the faux Start Menu triggers a dialog requiring you to Click Here To Provide Authorization.
Want to unzip a bunch of files to a folder that doesn't exist? No problem. Just give WinRAR the name you want and it will create the destination folder for you. Oops. Sorry. You're running Windows 10. The operation will fail. Even if you tell winrar.exe to "Run as Administrator". So you have to use File Explorer to create the destination directory first, then unrar or unzip into it.
Try to create a shortcut in certain directories? Sorry not allowed, but Windows will (un)helpfully offer to create the shortcut on the desktop instead. And then, you can drag the shortcut from the desktop to the location where you really want it. That works just fine. My head is starting to hurt.
I did manage to eliminate most of this nonsense by running a script that changes the permissions on every file and directory on my computer. Another shining example of how Microsoft is going that extra mile to make you hate your computer.
Note to Microsoft: I don't have permission?? IT'S MY F***ING COMPUTER!! Whoever is responsible for this nonsense should be killed to death repeatedly. Yes, I know, there are parents with small, unruly children and businesses with small, unruly employees, who need this sort of "security". That's fine. But that's your problem, not mine. Stop making it my problem. Nobody touches my computer but me, and if you aren't going to give me a way to easily turn this crap off, then you really need to FOAD.
OOOooooohhhaaayyyy
Let's break this shit down right now.
The Administrator Who Isn't Really An Administrator
And this is bad HOW, exactly?
It prevents you, or more accurately, that$browserexploit that just hit you, from accidentally-ing your ENTIRE OS. That's a GOOD THING.Welcome to Windows 10, The OS Where Nothing Is Allowed. Everything you do will result in a dialog box telling you that you "Don't Have Permission". And I do mean EVERYTHING. Even something as trivial as deleting an item from the faux Start Menu triggers a dialog requiring you to Click Here To Provide Authorization.
I just removed Skype from my Windows 10 start menu. CNR...
WinRAR
XDWant to unzip a bunch of files to a folder that doesn't exist? No problem. Just give WinRAR the name you want and it will create the destination folder for you. Oops. Sorry. You're running Windows 10. The operation will fail. Even if you tell winrar.exe to "Run as Administrator". So you have to use File Explorer to create the destination directory first, then unrar or unzip into it.
Hmm, sounds like a bug with WinRar. Windows Explorer and 7zip both do that fine for me. Unless I'm in a protected directory of course.Try to create a shortcut in certain directories? Sorry not allowed, but Windows will (un)helpfully offer to create the shortcut on the desktop instead. And then, you can drag the shortcut from the desktop to the location where you really want it. That works just fine. My head is starting to hurt.
Where on earth are you trying to put shortcuts?I did manage to eliminate most of this nonsense by running a script that changes the permissions on every file and directory on my computer. Another shining example of how Microsoft is going that extra mile to make you hate your computer.
XDI did that once too. It was especially fun when I couldn't run Windows Update any more because the files weren't owned by TrustedInstaller any more. But hey, if you like fuxxoring your permissions, don't go wailing to any of us when everything breaks
Yes, I know, there are parents with small, unruly children and businesses with small, unruly employees, who need this sort of "security".
And end users. Or have you never heard of malware?Nobody touches my computer but me
And the entire Internet, evidently.
TL;DR: You have absolutely no idea what security is and should not be preaching your ways to anyone, ever. You sir are TRWTF and are a danger to us all. Good day.
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why is that image broken? it shows just fine when i open it in a new tab.
hotlink protection?
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and almost no difference when I went from Core 2 to Core i5.
Interesting. I went from a Core 2 @ 2.13GHz to an OC i5-3590K, and saw a HUGE perf increase.
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@RaceProUK said:
Translation: I don't like change!
You say that like it's a bad thing.Change is expensive, and properly ought to be resisted if done purely for its own sake, as opposed to being done for the sake of actual improvement.
Yes, but for the vast majority of changes in Win8 and Win10, they are an improvement. Even if only via usability studies.
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I'm so sorry. I mean, at least it's not Infragistics, but even so, I feel your pain.
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Change is expensive, and properly ought to be resisted if done purely for its own sake, as opposed to being done for the sake of actual improvement.
True.
But the problem is: even when the change is actual, measurable, obvious improvement (like adding the Ribbon concept to Office), people like Mike_Hunt bitch and moan over it for years and years afterward.
So while I agree with you in general, the real problem is that you can't rely on the feedback you're getting from the change-- the feedback of the bitch-and-moaners is always going to outweigh the feedback of the people who actually helped, if only because they're so much louder.
And that's the tragedy. Maybe the Windows 8 changes were bad; maybe they were good-- but if you're Microsoft, how the hell do you tell? People would bitch and moan regardless.
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I'm also a bit dubious as to why his problems with WinRAR couldn't, like, stem from WinRAR and not Windows?
Windows 8+ is a bit weird about copying files out of archives into directories that would require elevation (like Program Files). It's easier to copy the files to the desktop, then into the destination folder.
But it sounds like his "problems" would be "solved" by just making his account an administrator, and then continuing to use Windows as if it were XP.
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just making his account an administrator, and then continuing to use Windows as if it were XP.
Bleh, ick, do not want. If I was @accalia I'd be making angry fox noises right now.
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All anyone has ever complained about when it comes to the start screen was that things were too large
Not true. I have frequently complained about
(a) Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
(b) Metro "design language": remove as many of the visual cues that distinguish one menu item from another as possible, so that a mouse-aiming operation that formerly required only a glance now requires visual scanningThe general response to all of these claims has always been the same: but text search is so much easier! which is completely irrelevant when answering criticism over the visual changes from an older GUI to a new one. The simple fact is that, for me, old-style graphically detailed icons always worked faster than text search, and the new "flat" Metro tiles work significantly slower. Which means that for me, the Metro GUI as a GUI is worse to the point of being incredibly irritating.
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The only Telerik things I have are JustDecompile and Fiddler, both of which work pretty well. I don't tend to use JustDecompile very often either, and I don't have the Fiddler shortcut in that folder (not sure if I changed that or that's how it installed originally).
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Nobody touches my computer but me, and if you aren't going to give me a way to easily turn this crap off, then you really need to FOAD.
It's not asking you to verify you are who you say you are, it's asking you to approve something dangerous you might not have requested.But fine, here, take this and go fuck yourself:
And don't come crying to me when you go to watch grumpy cat and a new browser 0day doesn't just destroy your browser, it destroys your computer too.
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I dunno, your post didn't seem all that ragey to me.
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(a) Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
Can be turned off.
(b) Metro "design language": remove as many of the visual cues that distinguish one menu item from another as possible, so that a mouse-aiming operation that formerly required only a glance now requires visual scanning
Everything is supposed to have an icon/glyph of some sort. Otherwise you aren't following the guidance for Modern in the first place.
Now, occasionally I hear people complain that things are brightly colored. I ignore them.
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The simple fact is that, for me, old-style graphically detailed icons always worked faster than text search,
There is no way that is true.
I'm the most spatially-oriented person on Earth. I cried real tears when it was clear that spatial interfaces had gone the way of the dodo. And even I find typing the name of the thing I want and hitting "enter" to be a million times better than a list of icons.
Which means that for me, the Metro GUI as a GUI is worse to the point of being incredibly irritating.
I don't believe you. I don't think you ever even tried text search.
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Why the fuck would anybody empty the Recycle Bin? Ever?
Because Windows Explorer still has the annoyance where if your RB has got thousands of small files in it, logins get slow.
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@Magus said:
All anyone has ever complained about when it comes to the start screen was that things were too large
Not true. I have frequently complained about
(a) Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
(b) Metro "design language": remove as many of the visual cues that distinguish one menu item from another as possible, so that a mouse-aiming operation that formerly required only a glance now requires visual scanningThe general response to all of these claims has always been the same: but text search is so much easier! which is completely irrelevant when answering criticism over the visual changes from an older GUI to a new one. The simple fact is that, for me, old-style graphically detailed icons always worked faster than text search, and the new "flat" Metro tiles work significantly slower. Which means that for me, the Metro GUI as a GUI is worse to the point of being incredibly irritating.
QFT.
I did not like MetroModernUniversal UI on 8.x
It felt unintuitive, wasteful, and highly obnoxious to use.On 10, the Win32 and MetroModernUniversal apps have the same (or very similar) UI controls, meaning they look like they're from the same OS. They synchronize well. I don't have to worry about the full screen crap (inb4 that stupid useless split feature gets mentioned), and they feel good from my perspective. That's why I like 10. I still don't really use the metro tiles on the Start Menu, but I like the search, and Cortana isn't bad.
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Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
@flabdablet said:Metro "design language": remove as many of the visual cues that distinguish one menu item from another
TheMetroModern UI design language doesn't even have menus; it's all done withtabspages and lists
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I was going to make my own gif which was like "crotchery geezer rage!" but after I downloaded a couple clip arts for it, I realized I didn't want to spend all that time on it.
I'm not enraged at all, but, then again, I never am. People frequently think I am though. Usually I'm laughing while I type these posts.
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Bleh, ick, do not want. If I was @accalia I'd be making angry fox noises right now.
That advice wasn't for you. It was for the guy who wishes he were still using 7, or maybe XP.
Remember: people like that complain every time a new version of Windows comes out, primarily because things look different, but they'll never just admit that. "Oh, the ribbon is a piece of shit [because stuff moved]". Funny, you ask people who use Office a lot how they feel, and "once I got used to it, I liked it a lot better".
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But that advise is terrible advice, hence the response. I don't give a crap about what people do with their UI features, but disabling important security features makes me feel all sorts of queezy, mad, and sad
Hell, I'm one of the UI haters, at least with the metro stuff.
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Because Windows Explorer still has the annoyance where if your RB has got thousands of small files in it, logins get slow.
Bullshit.
I'd have to see one hell of a piece of evidence backing that ridiculous claim up.
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Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
Just how much time do you spend sitting on Start that this is a problem?
I assume you're probably not using most of the live tiles. Unpin them and now you can live in a staticy world.
I actually like the idea of live tiles, even if, practically speaking, I don't use it much. But your complaint is similar to saying "I don't like that number on my email icon on my phone that tells me how many unread messages I have".
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Ah, good. Customizing their XAML controls is apparently pretty awful, though I can't imagine it being worse than what I had to deal with from Infragistics, who unfortunately have the only editable, sliceable pivot grid XAML control...
And before anyone suggests that we should have made our own, which would undoubtedly have been faster, no one in their right mind wants to touch OLAP data. Stay away!
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Hey, neat. I'd heard before you could do it, but TIL how.
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Windows 8+ is a bit weird about copying files out of archives into directories that would require elevation (like Program Files). It's easier to copy the files to the desktop, then into the destination folder.
But it sounds like his "problems" would be "solved" by just making his account an administrator, and then continuing to use Windows as if it were XP.
Well, okay, but then that wouldn't be a problem which suddenly appeared with Windows 10.
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I actually like the idea of live tiles, even if, practically speaking, I don't use it much.
+1
They're from the wrong provider (MS and not Google) but honestly, they're not that bad at all...
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It's Windows. You right click things. You moron.
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the problem is: even when the change is actual, measurable, obvious improvement (like adding the Ribbon concept to Office), people like Mike_Hunt bitch and moan over it for years and years afterward.
And instead of believing them when they tell us that alterations that might well suit other people are significantly worse for them, the consensus response is pretty much exactly the same one we all rightly hang shit on Jeff for - FOAD, YDIW?
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I honestly have no idea what his problem is. It's the same security setup, nothing's really changed. Maybe WinRAR is just relying on some super-crappy old depracated API that just now finally got broken. No idea.
I know that 7zip works fine, as do any of the other programs I use. So... yeah...
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Yes, having more options visible in a menu that you can customize as you wish is probably a bad idea. It makes things harder to use.
the same one we all rightly hang shit on Jeff for - FOAD, YDIW?
Yes, because displaying more things and removing all the things are equivalent.
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@flabdablet said:
Live Tiles: blinky flashy irritating distractions that need to be killed with fire
Just how much time do you spend sitting on Start that this is a problem?
I assume you're probably not using most of the live tiles. Unpin them and now you can live in a staticy world.
I actually like the idea of live tiles, even if, practically speaking, I don't use it much. But your complaint is similar to saying "I don't like that number on my email icon on my phone that tells me how many unread messages I have".
I must admit that I haven't run into those "flashy" Live tiles yet.
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Well, okay, but then that wouldn't be a problem which suddenly appeared with Windows 10.
Maybe he started logging in as Administrator or disabled UAC or something on 8 before he ran into the issue.
I knew what he was talking about, though, in this case, because I just ran into it today, since my new work PC isn't fully configured yet, and I'm experminting with running as much as possible as a non-admin. While I was installing some software, I copied a file from a zip directly into a subdir under Program files, from an app that was installed as Administrator. I got a UAC prompt (and a little top-right-corner toaster), and the file failed to copy even though I put in admin credentials. So after I did it a second time to verify I hadn't made a mistake of some kind, I just did what I said above--used the Desktop as an intermediate place.
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Some of the Win10 ones become cubes and roll to the next face to update, which is very slightly obnoxious.
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They're from the wrong provider (MS and not Google) but honestly, they're not that bad at all...
If Outlook had a live tile I'd be all over it.
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Everything is supposed to have an icon/glyph of some sort.
Yes, but these are all the same color as the text and buried inside a brightly colored rectangle, meaning that they convey less visual information than the uniquely shaped, uniquely colored icons used in pre-Metro editions of Windows. In order to find any given one of them, my eye has to do something more akin to reading than to face recognition. It's slower.
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It's Windows. You right click things. You moron.
I've never been bothered by it, so why would I have done that? "Oh, here's a tile I don't care about but I dislike enough to try to get rid of it". No, seems dumb.
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And instead of believing them when they tell us that alterations that might well suit other people are significantly worse for them,
I don't believe that's true, though. How do you know it's true? Did you do a study? Do you have data? Did you have someone stop-watch you while you performed a bunch of tasks, once using the keyboard and once using the mouse?
Or are you just going by your incredibly wrong and misleading gut feelings on the matter?
the consensus response is pretty much exactly the same one we all rightly hang shit on Jeff for - FOAD, YDIW?
The same complaint I just gave to you, I also apply to Jeff. I don't criticize him because he wants to improve the UI of Discourse, I criticize him because he does it using only his gut feelings. He doesn't do any science whatsoever, or even basic observational usability studies. He's actually stated his methodology is "complaint-based".
Gut feelings suck. Gut feelings are almost always wrong. If that's your metric, I'm going to criticize you too.
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The universal version must, because it does on my phone.
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I must admit that I haven't run into those "flashy" Live tiles yet.
You haven't seen the News one?
