Everquest, testing, and customers



  • Hi guys,

    I used to play a certain online video game a lot, and always noticed very strange system behavior in the game, especially after an update. Most people here will know of it. It's an online massive multiplayer game similar to WoW but came out several years earlier. It's a game where people are supposed to be forever questing cough. I started playing this game relatively late though.

    All kinds of people would notice weird bugs happening that the dev team would insist are hardware issues. People would run out and replace video cards and the problem would still exist. On the other hand, if they get a new machine and install on that, the problems would lessen considerably or disappear.

    Finally, after being driven somewhat insane by a recurring graphic bug even after replacing hardware, someone on a forum suggested I erase all the files except the initial exe itself. The initial exe simply connects to the game login server and downloads updates. Doing it this way basically forces a full patch of everything but the intiial exe itself.

    After 4 hours of transferring files over a cable modem, the program finished updating and I was able to play. Amazingly, not only was the weird graphic bug gone, but a lot of the scenery looked fantastically better as well. The game seemed to even play better.

    After a week or so, I started talking to one of the devs about this issue. After various questions, he admitted to me that all of the devs and testers install by this method. None of them actually ever install by using the cds, not even the testers.

    I couldn't really believe it. Perhaps I was misunderstanding?

    No. For years, the expansions of the game that get released to all the player to install have not actually been tested for play. They release the expansion but rely on the patcher to verify files. This would be fine except that obviously the patcher is less than perfect. (especially noticable when someone connects repeatedly for a few weeks and the patcher keeps downloading the same specific minor file.)

    Basically, this means that when customers report problems, the devs are trying to duplicate problems with a different set of files. Not one of the devs has actually installed in a fashion at all similar to how their customers do.

    As far as I've been able to determine, not one person at this company has taken the trouble to even install both ways, and compare the results.

    Just in case it's not clear, the way customers install is by installing the main game cds, installing expansion cds, and then letting the patcher update anything changed since.

    The way everyone at the company that makes the game installs is by copying the initial exe program to their local drive, running it, and letting it download everything to their machine over their local network.

    Yes, it's far faster this way, but how can you test for customer problems if you never test the way your customers install?



  • sorry guys, the posting removed my paragraphs.  When I tried to edit it, it hung on me until the edit timed out.<P>

    Here it is with formatting, I hope:<P>

    Hi guys,<P>

    I used to play a certain online video game a lot, and always noticed very strange system behavior in the game, especially after an update.  Most people here will know of it.  It's an online massive multiplayer game similar to WoW but came out several years earlier.  It's a game where people are supposed to be forever questing cough.  I started playing this game relatively late though.<P>

    All kinds of people would notice weird bugs happening that the dev team would insist are hardware issues.  People would run out and replace video cards and the problem would still exist.  On the other hand, if they get a new machine and install on that, the problems would lessen considerably or disappear.<P>

    Finally, after being driven somewhat insane by a recurring graphic bug even after replacing hardware, someone on a forum suggested I erase all the files except the initial exe itself.  The initial exe simply connects to the game login server and downloads updates.  Doing it this way basically forces a full patch of everything but the intiial exe itself.<P>

    After 4 hours of transferring files over a cable modem, the program finished updating and I was able to play.  Amazingly, not only was the weird graphic bug gone, but a lot of the scenery looked fantastically better as well.  The game seemed to even play better.<P>

    After a week or so, I started talking to one of the devs about this issue.  After various questions, he admitted to me that all of the devs and testers install by this method.  None of them actually ever install by using the cds, not even the testers.<P>

    I couldn't really believe it.  Perhaps I was misunderstanding?<P>

    No.  For years, the expansions of the game that get released to all the player to install have not actually been tested for play.  They release the expansion but rely on the patcher to verify files.  This would be fine except that obviously the patcher is less than perfect.  (especially noticable when someone connects repeatedly for a few weeks and the patcher keeps downloading the same specific minor file.)<P>

    Basically, this means that when customers report problems, the devs are trying to duplicate problems with a different set of files.  Not one of the devs has actually installed in a fashion at all similar to how their customers do.<P>

    As far as I've been able to determine, not one person at this company has taken the trouble to even install both ways, and compare the results.<P>

    Just in case it's not clear, the way customers install is by installing the main game cds, installing expansion cds, and then letting the patcher update anything changed since.<P>

    The way everyone at the company that makes the game installs is by copying the initial exe program to their local drive, running it, and letting it download everything to their machine over their local network.<P>

    Yes, it's far faster this way, but how can you test for customer problems if you never test the way your customers install?<P>



  • I used to play too.

    And after reading this...now I understand a great many things.

    Thankfully I was never really bothered by nasty hardware bugs.

     



  • Here's another wtf. I took the trouble to remove the product name out of the post, but left it in the thread title.  D'oh!



  • The third WTF is that you think they care enough about their reputation to make sure no one finds out they don't always have the customer's best interests in mind. That's a bit like posting an article linking fascism to mass murder and then accidentally putting Na...

    Oh, shit, Godwin's law. Does that count? 



  • [quote user="quamaretto"]

    The third WTF is that you think they care enough about their reputation to make sure no one finds out they don't always have the customer's best interests in mind. That's a bit like posting an article linking fascism to mass murder and then accidentally putting Na...

    Oh, shit, Godwin's law. Does that count? 

    [/quote]

    I believe the thread is now half over.
     



  • if this is true then it's because the patcher doesn't remove "dead files" - so deleting and installing via the patcher only gets you the most up to date files.

     

    and EVERYONE knows that what goes out on the CDs isn't the final version of an expansion - because when they have to fab the CDs - they do that in HOPES of it reducing your download time. 



  • and are you refering to The West Bug btw? if so did it not ever occur to you to TELL THE DEVS that solves it?  



  • [quote user="Kazan"]and are you refering to The West Bug btw? if so did it not ever occur to you to TELL THE DEVS that solves it?  
    [/quote]

    Yes, that was the bug, and yes, I did tell the devs.  No, they didn't care.   Yes, I made a point of trying to get the word out to other players.

    Btw, the reason I was trying to keep the product name out of the thread is because I was under the impression that that is preferred on this site.  The daily wtf's generally don't seem to specify companies.



  • [quote user="Kazan"]

    if this is true then it's because the patcher doesn't remove "dead files" - so deleting and installing via the patcher only gets you the most up to date files.

     

    and EVERYONE knows that what goes out on the CDs isn't the final version of an expansion - because when they have to fab the CDs - they do that in HOPES of it reducing your download time. 

    [/quote]

    Of course the cds are released in order to reduce download time.  This is why they also sell the expansions via download, right?

    Cutting down on download time is great.  Unfortunately, getting a screwy product as a result means frustration on the part of the customers and confusion to the devs that can never trace down recurring problems.  It's even more frustrating upgrading your hardware for it and not seeing any improvement.

    If the program uses dead files that the patcher doesn't allow for, that's a wtf, isn't it?  That might almost be like writing a record handling system that doesn't allow for deleting.

    But I'm reasonably sure that it's not just dead files.  Dead files alone wouldn't account for the system using older graphics instead of newer ones, or regularly downloading the same file every time you patch.



  • oh.. and I just confirmed with a member of the EQ dev team that QA does indeed do CD installs to test  



  • [quote user="Kazan"]oh.. and I just confirmed with a member of the EQ dev team that QA does indeed do CD installs to test  
    [/quote]

     Are you an employee of the EQ group?

    First off, what does the QA team actually test?  Just that the cds install?  Do they run the CD installs and then test play on it?  When I talked to them previously, they stated explicitly to me that no one actually installs from the cds there.  This was when I was bringing to their attention that deleting everything but the patcher and running the patcher to install everything fresh would fix the problems I was seeing.

    Second, do the DEVS install from cds?  The QA team doesn't do coding.  The devs do.  How can a dev test for reported bugs if they never actually manage to duplicate the bug?  When attempting to duplicate bugs, the first rule is to duplicate the environment.

    Third, I've talked to the gms before, and one specifically told me she and other gms do testing when expansions come out.  In other words, everyone pitches in for QA on expansions, every 6 months.  Do they even have a dedicated QA team?

    Fourth, the whole game is rife with wtfs.  If you have an in with anyone there, get them to fix the bloody game.  It's leaking customers like crazy because management insists on releasing expansions on top of a house of cards.  The latest wtf with the game is how they "fixed" the experience reward system for the new expansion with the result that old newbie quests rewarded high level people with AA points.

    Early this year they released unintentional beta npcs on live that sold rare items cheaply, and then ran a rolling restore that caused far more damage than it fixed, without actually removing all the purchased items.  Major wtf right there.



  • [quote user="writejustify"]

     Are you an employee of the EQ group?
    [/quote]

     

    no, friends with one, acquaintances with several

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    First off, what does the QA team actually test?  Just that the cds install?  Do they run the CD installs and then test play on it? 

    [/quote]

     the last.... it wouldn't be QA is they didn't test... why do you think patches take so long - they're testing all the things they intentionally changed

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    When I talked to them previously, they stated explicitly to me that no one actually installs from the cds there. 

    [/quote]

    nobody in Content Design... that doesn't neccessarily apply to Code (which we don't know) or QA (which we know it doesn't)

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    This was when I was bringing to their attention that deleting everything but the patcher and running the patcher to install everything fresh would fix the problems I was seeing.

    [/quote]

     

    then obviously that wasn't the solution, it just seemed to be since the West bug is not a consistently triggering bug 

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Second, do the DEVS install from cds? 

    [/quote]

    depends on which - content devs: no, code devs: don't know 

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    The QA team doesn't do coding.  The devs do.  How can a dev test for reported bugs if they never actually manage to duplicate the bug?

    [/quote]

    QAs JOB is replicating bugs.  That's what professional testers do, it's their job.  When QA replicates a bug they give the exact replication conditions to Code.  That's how testing works in big organizations.  Even in my small organization I barely test my own code (other's test for me)- as i don't understand how it's being used, i jsut code to specs.  Welcome to the real world.

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    When attempting to duplicate bugs, the first rule is to duplicate the environment.

    [/quote]

    thank you captain obvious for telling me something I've known since I was 12 years old

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Third, I've talked to the gms before, and one specifically told me she and other gms do testing when expansions come out. 

    [/quote]

     

    1st) GMs are CS, they are not QA, they are not Code, they are not Dev.  Never trust what a GM says - they are talking out of their ass 99% of the time.

    2nd) That's called Beta.  Ever participated in Beta?  Problem with beta is a lot of players don't report bugs they find because they want to exploit them.. asshats they are

    3rd) Most of the problems are at non-expansion patches 

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    In other words, everyone pitches in for QA on expansions, every 6 months.  Do they even *have* a dedicated QA team?

    [/quote]

     

    Yes, what an assinine jump of logic "since everyone pitches in once every six months, then they must not have dedicated QA"........

     

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Fourth, the whole game is rife with wtfs.

    [/quote]

    any 8 year old codebase that has been maintained by atleast three different teams with probably 100% rollover since creation is going to.  The FreeSpace 2 codebase is a steaming pile of WTFs and it was Sim of the Year 1999 

     [quote user="writejustify"]

      If you have an in with anyone there, get them to fix the bloody game.

    [/quote]

     in the real world fixing things isn't as easy as saying "fix the bloody game".  You fix an 8 year old codebase of every bug, on a budget. 

     

     [quote user="writejustify"]

     It's leaking customers like crazy because management insists on releasing expansions on top of a house of cards. 

    [/quote]

     

     [quote user="writejustify"]

    The latest wtf with the game is how they "fixed" the experience reward system for the new expansion with the result that old newbie quests rewarded high level people with AA points.

    [/quote]

     *twirls finger and makes a note to go get the AAs* 

     

     [quote user="writejustify"]
    Early this year they released unintentional beta npcs on live that sold rare items cheaply, and then ran a rolling restore that caused far more damage than it fixed, without actually removing all the purchased items.  Major wtf right there.[/quote]

     

    That was due to a corrupt file on the server, which everyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows.  The Plane of Knowledge Zone NPC file was busted when it rolled to the production servers - but it was fine on the QA server.  The Corrupt Zone NPC file has leftshifted columns that caused the unbinding of the script that forces those NPCs to insta despawn on production. 

     

    Anyone with two sense knows they should have STAYED THE FUCK AWAY from those vendors.  NONE of my characters got rolled back.    Only morons got rolled back. 

     

    (They maintain all the production servers, plus QA, Test, Beta/Dev) 




  • [quote user="Kazan"][quote user="writejustify"]

     Are you an employee of the EQ group?
    [/quote]

    no, friends with one, acquaintances with several

    [/quote]

    You admit you have a bias for the group then?  This is partly why I didn't want to include the product name.  People will automatically make assumptions regardless of facts.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]
    First off, what does the QA team actually test?  Just that the cds install?  Do they run the CD installs and then test play on it? 

    [/quote]

    the last.... it wouldn't be QA is they didn't test... why do you think patches take so long - they're testing all the things they intentionally changed
    [/quote]

    The QA team might install from cds and then run the patcher, but they are only testing the things they "intentionally changed" as you said.  They aren't testing everything with that environment.  They test the new expansion and their changes, but their changes in one expansion impact everything.  You deliberately clipped my point out about how they muck up older content when they install new content, and never check it.

    You also clipped out my point about how the devs themselves never try to duplicate the customer environment when they are trying to hunt down the mystery bugs people complain about.  The east/west bug is a perfect example.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    When I talked to them previously, they stated explicitly to me that no one actually installs from the cds there. 

    [/quote]

    nobody in Content Design... that doesn't neccessarily apply to Code (which we don't know) or QA (which we know it doesn't)

    [/quote]

    We do know. They specifically told me they only install from the patcher and not from the cds.  They told me this when I was bringing to their attention that installing this way cleared up the problems.  They just didn't care.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    This was when I was bringing to their attention that deleting everything but the patcher and running the patcher to install everything fresh would fix the problems I was seeing.

    [/quote]

    then obviously that wasn't the solution, it just seemed to be since the West bug is not a consistently triggering bug 

    [/quote]

    I was having the bug on a constant basis.  I couldn't go 10 minutes without seeing it.  After I installed completely from the patcher, I never saw the problem again even after playing for months.

    You don't really make a lot of sense.  Doing this fixes the problem, so you suggest that it must mean it wasn't the solution?

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Second, do the DEVS install from cds? 

    [/quote]

    depends on which - content devs: no, code devs: don't know 

    [/quote]

    I'll answer for you.  They don't.  The guys that try to hunt down the bugs aren't working from the cd installs.  It would't matter if the patcher was halfway successful.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    The QA team doesn't do coding.  The devs do.  How can a dev test for reported bugs if they never actually manage to duplicate the bug?

    [/quote]

    QAs JOB is replicating bugs.  That's what professional testers do, it's their job.  When QA replicates a bug they give the exact replication conditions to Code.  That's how testing works in big organizations.  Even in my small organization I barely test my own code (other's test for me)- as i don't understand how it's being used, i jsut code to specs.  Welcome to the real world.

    [/quote]

    Not really.  I've talked to the devs in the forums.  It's the devs that are trying to replicate and fix the bugs.  The QA team just test expansions and gameplay, hopefully with testplans but they wouldn't tell me.

    Gee, ya know, most people here are programmers or developers and know how coding and QA works.  You don't need to be a prick.

    Considering that the GMs told me that when a new expansion is coming out, even the GMs assist in testing, I really wonder if they even have a decent QA group.  It's sort of silly to take the working group away from the game where they need to be, and put them into doing the QA groups job.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    When attempting to duplicate bugs, the first rule is to duplicate the environment.

    [/quote]

    thank you captain obvious for telling me something I've known since I was 12 years old

    [/quote]

    Really?  Then why don't you seem to agree that the devs should be working on that duplicated environment?

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Third, I've talked to the gms before, and one specifically told me she and other gms do testing when expansions come out. 

    [/quote]

    1st) GMs are CS, they are not QA, they are not Code, they are not Dev.  Never trust what a GM says - they are talking out of their ass 99% of the time.

    [/quote]

    As you seem to be.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    2nd) That's called Beta.  Ever participated in Beta?  Problem with beta is a lot of players don't report bugs they find because they want to exploit them.. asshats they are

    [/quote]

    Players are asshats.  Nice attitude.

    No, I don't participate in official beta programs.  The live beta program (eq itself) is bad enough.

    I'm not sure what your point here was though.  That it's ok that gms are pulled from the live system to work on the beta?

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    3rd) Most of the problems are at non-expansion patches 

    [/quote]

    Which the QA team never touch.  The QA team is unlikely to have time to qa test the regularly scheduled emergency patches they install every 3 nights.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    In other words, everyone pitches in for QA on expansions, every 6 months.  Do they even have a dedicated QA team?

    [/quote]

     

    Yes, what an assinine jump of logic "since everyone pitches in once every six months, then they must not have dedicated QA"........

    [/quote]

    Not at all.  If the QA team can't handle the workload, what the fuck are they there for?  Does the dev team get deluged suddenly and have sales and customer service jump in to help?  If they can't handle the testing, (and it seems they can't), then either they need to lower the rate of expansions or hire a lot more QA people.

    Perhaps actually using test plans and some automated checking would help, but I admit I don't know if they have any currently.  Although when I asked about test plans in the forum, the dev said "what's a test plan?"

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    Fourth, the whole game is rife with wtfs.

    [/quote]

    any 8 year old codebase that has been maintained by atleast three different teams with probably 100% rollover since creation is going to.  The FreeSpace 2 codebase is a steaming pile of WTFs and it was Sim of the Year 1999 

    [/quote]

    First off, it was released in 99.  At most it's a 7 year codebase.  Second, this team has had control of the thing for at least 4 years now.  Most of the wtf's are from their own design.   Third, if you had a steaming pile of wtfs you had to maintain and enhance for the last 4 years and knew you'd have it for potentially 6 more, wouldn't you work on cleaning it up?

    They don't work on cleaning it up.  They just excuse the mess by saying that it was a steaming pile of wtfs when they got it.

    That excuse doesn't work after this long.  They need to quit adding more steaming wtfs to it and take responsibility. 

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]

    If you have an in with anyone there, get them to fix the bloody game.

    [/quote]

     in the real world fixing things isn't as easy as saying "fix the bloody game".  You fix an 8 year old codebase of every bug, on a budget. 

    [/quote]

    Again, it's not an 8 year codebase. They've had it for at least 4 years, pulling in $15 per customer per month and $30 per expansion per customer twice a year.  I think that calls for a decent budget to at least not release expansions filled with bugs that also break older content and introduce stupid exploits.

    Sorry, but it's just idiotic design of a new expansion when the new expansion code causes a original content quest bone chip hand-in to return an AA.  It most likely means some dev decided to make some fancy code that did some neat-o things and didn't consider the side effects.

    [quote user="Kazan"] 

     [quote user="writejustify"]

    It's leaking customers like crazy because management insists on releasing expansions on top of a house of cards. 

    [/quote]

     [quote user="writejustify"]

    The latest wtf with the game is how they "fixed" the experience reward system for the new expansion with the result that old newbie quests rewarded high level people with AA points.

    [/quote]

    twirls finger and makes a note to go get the AAs 

    [/quote]

    Would that make you one of the asshat players you mentioned that uses exploits?

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    [quote user="writejustify"]
    Early this year they released unintentional beta npcs on live that sold rare items cheaply, and then ran a rolling restore that caused far more damage than it fixed, without actually removing all the purchased items.  Major wtf right there.[/quote]

     

    That was due to a corrupt file on the server, which everyone who doesn't have their head up their ass knows.  The Plane of Knowledge Zone NPC file was busted when it rolled to the production servers - but it was fine on the QA server.  The Corrupt Zone NPC file has leftshifted columns that caused the unbinding of the script that forces those NPCs to insta despawn on production. 

     

    Anyone with two sense knows they should have STAYED THE FUCK AWAY from those vendors.  NONE of my characters got rolled back.    Only morons got rolled back. 

    [/quote]

    You mean the moron that was sitting in trader mode when someone bought spider silk from him, not knowing that purchasing water from the npc would mean he'd get rolledback?

    But you ignored my point, deliberately I think.  How idiotic is it to do staggered rollbacks on a system like this?  How much simpler would it have been to simply shut down the system and do a single system rollback?

    Instead, they flagged all the people that interacted with the npcs, even those that didn't buy.  Those people were rolled back.  Then they tagged all the people that traded with the first people and rolled them back.  Then they tagged all the people that traded with the second level people after having traded with the first group, and rolled THEM back.

    This went on for 3-4 days.  Totally innocent people were rolled back.  Not only that, but the rollbacks were screwy in themselves.  People lost items that they'd had the week previously.  It really sucks to have given someone something innocent, and then find yourself popped away from the raid and sitting in a far zone.  Even worse when your dearly hunted epic item you found weeks ago and left sitting in the bank is now gone.

    And then the customer service group responds by calling you an exploiter and nothing will be returned.

    Forget the experience you'd earned over 3 nights and suddenly lost, even though you hadn't exploited anything.

    [quote user="Kazan"]

    (They maintain all the production servers, plus QA, Test, Beta/Dev) 

    [/quote]

    So?  Every company maintains those things.  Why can't the EQ team do it halfway decently without major blunders every other week?



  • i was doing a nice point-by-point rebuttal, but you're too fucking stupid to deserve that.

     

    You're talking out your ass because your mouth knows better - first mr Presumptious i'm not being biased because they're my friends - i'm being I fucking know better than your ignorant ass because i am a game developer.  

     

    I'm certain whoever you talked to didn't say "We never install from CDs" - neither did the person i talk to.  Regular practice is not always followed - for obvious reasons.

     

     

    You're just another dumbass n00b that needs to go play wow where scriptkiddies like you belong.       



  • [quote user="Kazan"]

    I fucking know better than your ignorant ass because i am a game developer.  

    [/quote]

    Best line ever. By best, I mean stupidest.



  • [quote user="webzter"][quote user="Kazan"]

    I fucking know better than your ignorant ass because i am a game developer.  

    [/quote]

    Best line ever. By best, I mean stupidest.

    [/quote]

     

    So we're in agreement then that writejustify won this argument? Kazan, don't bother replying, it won't help your case any. 



  • no, he didn't win everything - i just don't feel like taking the time to explain things to the critically stupid.

     

    Like how if every single member of QA, the dev team, the code team, and managment, along with the entire compliment of beta test players would test 24 hours a day, 7 days a week - for a year (let's call that a round number of about 200 people you'd get 12,264,000 man hours of testing.

    Guess a subscriber base of about 250,00 people on live - it takes 49 hours of play time for each account to amass the same amount of testing.

     

    Thorough testing is impossible in an mmorpg.

     

    Citing one's expert knowledge on a specific field is never stupid, a layman thinking they know more than an expert is what's stupid.   



  • [quote user="Kazan"]

    Citing one's expert knowledge on a specific field is never stupid, a layman thinking they know more than an expert is what's stupid.   

    [/quote]

    No, your entire handling of everything on this thread is the epitome of ignorance and stupidity. I've met other stupid people so I am an expert on this. You can't contradict me because I am an expert on your stupidity and you are just a layman of stupidity.



  • Kazan,

    I wasn't trying to create a flame war here.  I apologize for upsetting you, as that's not what I was attempting to do.

    I think we're gonna have to disagree about Everquest though.  I personally think you're completely wrong on all points, but you obviously feel the same way about me.  You have a personal interest in EQ since you have friends there, and I applaud that you are willing to defend them. 

    One point I meant to make before about the EQ team that I neglected.  I don't think the devs are bad programmers.  I think the management there is causing all the problems.  It was the management team that decided to make the staggered rollbacks that hurt innocent people, and it is the management team that directs the devs to focus on expansions faster than they can really handle.

    It's also the management team that doesn't seem to push for automated testing, test plans, or review of deep changes that impact multiple levels of code.

    I know that for a small system, a few good programmers can keep poor management from making serious mistakes, but a few good programmers on a large system can't prevent management from making the system a mess.

    All it takes is one confused manager to suggest a bad idea (let's not shutdown and restore. Let's just rollback selected people.  We already have the ability to rollback individuals!) to a group of phb's to cause basically a nightmare for the entire customer service department for the next few weeks.  The devs don't even have to be consulted before the phb's run with the concept.



  • IIRC they had (added later?) an option that would check every file against the version on the patch server.

    I also remember encountering a graphics issue noone was able to help me resolve, involving a frequent crash when I entered a specific zone. I ended up debugging the game (using W32DASM, is the real WTF) and tracing the error to a sky-drawing function. I might have patched the executable, deleted the corresponding texture file or fiddled with the graphics options - possibly all three, trying to figure out how to work around the problem.


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