HANZO! (No Discourse I don't need to be more descriptive)



  • Spotted at PAX East. Made me think of you guys.

    He's even a ninja!

    ETA: http://us.battle.net/overwatch/en/heroes/hanzo/


  • :belt_onion:

    You do know the name came from a historical character, right?

    We did kinda make it our own and I'd probably have the same reaction as well, but hey...

    Also, he breaks oneboxing. How TDWTF of him.



  • And here I thought he was just a character in a Tarantino movie.



  • The thing is, Blizzard does the best when they make games in dead genres. World of Warcraft was an MMO in a time where all other MMOs were really shitty. Hearthstone was a card game in a time when card games weren't popular. Diablo was a roguelike in a time when nobody knew what a roguelike was. Overwatch is a game named after a Half-Life 2 faction or a Half-Life 2: Deathmatch mod or a Counter-Strike: Global Offensive feature that plays like Team Fortress 2. Not really a dead genre. Same with Heroes of the Storm. League of Legends is the most popular game on the internet and Dota 2 is the most popular game on Steam. That genre isn't dead either.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    The thing is [Ben stuff]

    No, that's not the thing. There is no thing, except WhateverTF you're on about. You're have a discussion with no one.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Diablo was a roguelike in a time when nobody knew what a roguelike was.

    Dafaq? At the time Diablo came out there were like a million roguelikes. EDIT: ok I'm going to be a weaselly weasel and take that back, it's an overreach.

    They actually dressed-it-up like a dungeon crawler to differentiate it from the other roguelikes. If anything, Diablo was popular because it mixed two popular genres of the time.

    Dungeon crawlers pretty much died off for a long time until Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance and that awful Fallout one kind of brought it back a bit.



  • Not sure I agree. They bring things to the masses. They improve on things, and fix issues, that others consider inherent in the genre. But they definitely don't isolate themselves to genres that are otherwise dead.

    IIRC, MMOs were already quite popular when wow came around. But then wow sold more copies than the expected size of the market in the first week or so.



  • @ben_lubar said:

    Diablo was a roguelike

    What.

    @blakeyrat said:

    They actually dressed-it-up like a dungeon crawler to differentiate it from the other roguelikes.

    Whoah, what's the difference between a roguelike and a dungeon crawler?

    @blakeyrat said:

    Dungeon crawlers (...) Fallout one

    The fuck I just read?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    awful Fallout

    @eskel said:

    The fuck I just read?

    "Awful" in the context of "Fallout" is usually implied to mean either Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or Fallout Tactics, neither of which are regarded as canon within the broader Fallout Lore.



  • @tar said:

    "Awful" in the context of "Fallout" is usually implied to mean either Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or Fallout Tactics, neither of which are regarded as canon within the broader Fallout Lore.

    Correct.

    Brotherhood of Steel was built by some people who were like, "hey Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance was fun as hell, what if we made a Fallout game in that genre? The answer is: a really shitty game.

    @eskel said:

    Whoah, what's the difference between a roguelike and a dungeon crawler?

    Dungeon crawlers can be roguelikes; roguelikes aren't necessarily dungeon crawlers. The aforementioned Dark Alliance is a dungeon crawler, but there is no roguelike to it. Similarly, the game FTL is a roguelike, but is not a dungeon crawler by any stretch of the imagination.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @eskel said:

    what's the difference between a roguelike and a dungeon crawler?

    Roguelikes are mainly distinguished by the use of procedurally-generated chunk arrangements. You literally do not know what you're going to get each time you play, even if you've seen rather similar things before. Dungeon crawlers are relatively simplistic games, where your goal is just to go in, kill loads of monsters and grab lots of loot; not much story in there. Dungeon crawlers do not need to be roguelikes — they could have a pre-set map, monsters and loot — and roguelikes do not need to be plot-free bore-fests dungeon crawlers.


  • area_deu

    You forgot to mention that death is highly consequential in roguelikes - often being permanent.



  • @tar said:

    "Awful" in the context of "Fallout" is usually implied to mean either Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or Fallout Tactics, neither of which are regarded as canon within the broader Fallout Lore.

    Oh, in that case I must agree. I wouldn't call Fallout Tactics awful, but it was kind of unrewarding. No mood, awkward mechanics, clumsy controls (Syndicate was much better) and the terrible Polish voiceover ::shivers::.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Dungeon crawlers can be roguelikes; roguelikes aren't necessarily dungeon crawlers.

    Well, that explains it all ...

    @dkf said:

    Roguelikes are mainly distinguished by the use of procedurally-generated chunk arrangements.

    So Demise versus Dungeon Crawl, thank you very much. Video game classification always seemed vague to me,
    especially since a lot of the really good games are (or used to be) their own categories (The folks at Bullfrog were quite good at this).

    @aliceif said:

    You forgot to mention that death is highly consequential in roguelikes - often being permanent.

    I love games with permadeath, especially if the game forbids saving every 5 seconds. It really sanitizes the target audience.



  • @aliceif said:

    You forgot to mention that death is highly consequential in roguelikes - often being permanent.

    Many dungeon crawlers, including diablo 2 and 3, do not have free savegames, only allowing save-on-exit and resuming from that save once. Death incurs a gold/experience penalty (in softcore) or is permanent (in hardcore).

    In D2, after (softcore) death, you have to go out into the world to reclaim your equipment and part of the XP you lost in death, or create a new game with the same character (respawning killed mobs, and losing the XP permanently).

    For both D2 and D3, if your hardcore character dies in a battle.net game for any reason whatsoever, including latency, disconnects, or game bugs, support will not resurrect the character.


  • area_deu

    I know, I played lots of Diablo II when I went to school.


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