Is Uber the *worst* .com currently?

The city was under siege. Everyone was busy fortifying the walls - some
were carrying stones, and others were tasked with patching the walls.
The remaining individuals were busy building battlements. Diogenes, not
wanting to appear idle while everyone around him was working so
frantically, diligently rolled his barrel back and forth along the
battlements. The city fell.

darkmatter

@blakeyrat said:

Read the Buzzfeed article, I should have posted it first. I'm kind of coming into this particular piece of news ass-first as well.

Yeah, her article was shit useless. Nowhere in it did I feel sympathy for her because she never mentions what it was that had her so freaked out. THINK OF MY CHILDREN!!! Ok...why?

Even after reading the buzzfeed article, the closest thing I can come to finding as a threat that might in any way involve her children is this line:

They could, in particular, prove a particular and very specific claim about her personal life.

Which I assume means there's something embarrassing that is true, would hurt her children's feelings, and is the reason she won't actually say anything other than alluding to some big looming mystery threat in her own article.

Her over the top exaggeration of what this Uber exec was supposedly going to do to ruin her life pretty much killed any sympathy I would have had for her.

That's not to say Uber's execs don't sound like a bunch of douchebags, because they definitely do. There are plenty of bad things they've actually done for everyone to trash them over.

darkmatter

@darkmatter said:

Her over the top exaggeration of what this Uber exec was supposedly going to do

That is, the impression I got from her article was that the Uber exec was actually physically threatening her children's safety. Then I read the buzzfeed article and was greatly disappointed (well not disappointed that her children are safe, but disappointed by her hyperbole).

Buddy

Also: if you actually do care about ethics in journalism, surely you would respect the person who spit in the face of the rich fucks who invited him to their little shindig just so they could mouth off about how any journalist who went against them would get destroyed far more than you'd respect the lapdog trying to discredit him in order to stay in his real bosses' good graces, wouldn't you?

And in this ‘oppo research’, ‘no-one would know it's us world’, exactly how long do you think it will take until gamersgate realize just how played they have gotten – how surprising that a bunch of embarrassing personal facts surfaced about Zoe Quinn, so soon after she upset so many powerful people with her little Game_Jam walkout, huh – never, right, because anyone sufficiently dedicated to gamegate is already working hand-in-cock with the people who've been feeding them this bullshit, right? Because anyone who was actually upset about the state of journalism could already find about a million billion bloggers fucking begging for their pageview, right? Fuck Everybody.

boomzilla

@Buddy said:

Uber is willing to attack people; that much we can gather from the fact that they discussed attacking someone

This doesn't actually follow.

accalia

@Buddy said:

working hand-in-cock

-twitch-

that was not a mental image i ever wanted to have....

boomzilla

@Buddy said:

Also: if you actually do care about ethics in journalism, surely you would respect the person who spit in the face of the rich fucks who invited him to their little shindig just so they could mouth off about how any journalist who went against them would get destroyed far more than you'd respect the lapdog trying to discredit him in order to stay in his real bosses' good graces, wouldn't you?

The linked article about the article points out that he could have asked the CEO WTF was that all about, when the CEO takes questions. This may or may not be an ethics in journalism issue as much as a competence in journalism issue.

Still, the thing comes off more as a brag than a true threat to me.

Nipo

I just read in the local paper something that the company is planning to begin its services in Finland, too, despite the jungle of required licenses. I really hope that the local "everything's forbidden" mentality will block this attempt (some years ago the tax offices even began targeting carsharing for tax avoidance, because paying services with services is still paying, so there should be VAT). Also, the local taxi companies already have mobile apps or SMS services, some even allow direct texts to the closest free taxi, and all drivers accept credit cards. It'll be interesting.

When it comes to the original news, I do agree that the "pando-chick"'s article is really bad. I read it twice and I still didn't understand what she wanted to say - I thought that the UBER guy had called her to threaten her physically, and was confused why she referred to another article instead of quoting the guy directly. Actually the article is less of an article and more of an incoherent rant she would've been better off without.

The Buzzfeed article, on the other hand... how could they think that would be a good idea to explain one's (at least partly illegal) media-fighting strategies to a journalist? On the other hand, criminal and stupid do often go hand in hand. The best thing is of course that if there'll be any blackmailing activity towards journalists, it'll be very easy to point fingers to right direction.

dkf

@Nipo said:

On the other hand, criminal and stupid do often go hand in hand.

The devil's advocate would point out that you won't hear of criminal and smart going together. Or at least not until Congress orders a bailout and grants immunity from prosecution.

Magus

Kind of like how ya nevah seen a puhple ork noitha.

VaelynPhi

@boomzilla said:

Interestingly, my wife just brought GG up, and she thought it was all about asshole gamers sending death threats to women. I blame the hysterics in her facebook feed. We've often noticed a big difference between hers and mine.

I dunno about gamers, but certainly the major action happening amongst those who self-describe as gamergaters is trolls sending death threats, doxxing, trolling... So, whatever it's "about", as far as I'm concerned it's now basically just a codeword for "trolls" and any sensible human should probably be running for the hills.

@Magus said:

Its especially bad, considering it all started with women harassing men. They keep trying to tell everyone the opposite.

I need a "not sure if sarcasm" Fry for this. BEHOLD, how the internet delivers:

http://www.troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-sarcasm.jpg

Verily, it is a cornucopia.

@blakeyrat said:

Why is Gamers Gate in here, I hate you all. I disown this thread.

This may be the first healthy response I've ever seen blakeyrat have.

locallunatic

@VaelynPhi said:

This may be the first healthy response I've ever seen blakeyrat have.

QFT

chubertdev

@VaelynPhi said:

This may be the first healthy response I've ever seen blakeyrat have.

Double QFT, can't like the post since I don't exactly agree with all of it.

Buddy

@boomzilla said:

competence in journalism

If buzzfeed-level naivety is what it takes to cause a chip in the political facade, I'm just as happy with incompetence, thanks.

I'm not saying that I actually believe in the conspiracy that I'm theorizing about here, or that I want anyone to believe it, it's just that the thing that really struck me about any of the CIA, or any other organization's, covert operations that have been declassified is how pants-on-head loony anyone at the time who suggested that any of it was happening would have seemed. So I just figure it's worth it to point out when things like this might be a possibility, and to bear in mind that there have been times in the past when people have shown at least this level of bad faith. And that once someone has floated something as a possibility and confidently proclaimed that they could do it without anyone realizing, no amount of public statements to the contrary can ever take that back.

Magus

Great, another one of these idiots.

Have you ever heard of The Fine Young Capitalists? How about Wizardchan?

Did you know that GG started when some people on Wizardchan's depressed virgins board swore about how much they hated Depression Quest? One of it's maker's friends linked her there to see the bad things they were saying about her and her game, and so she started up a massive flamestorm against these 'harassers'. She started saying that her anonymous death threats through email and phone calls came from that board, a place for people who are afraid to talk to people on phones. Suddenly, there was an inrush of 'they should all have their balls cut off with rusty butter knives' around the internet, toward a small group of people who just wanted to be left alone.

She labeled them 'gamers'.

When the flames from that finally started dying down, a large number of journalists across multiple sites all wrote articles about how evil all gamers are and how the label needs to be thrown away. How gamers are really just misogynists.

I don't know about you, but as someone who plays video games, I don't like having these things suddenly attached to me. Every time anyone in GG tries to talk about the issues, they get shouted down as misogynists, no matter what they say. They receive graphic death threats.

But sure, they're all trolls. That's the reality of the situation, oh almighty, all-seeing one.

chubertdev

I believe that you're looking for this thread.

Buddy

That's the old one. This one is current.

Magus

I just hate to see people who are actually being attacked actively by the media dismissed as simple trolls.

chubertdev

My plan is easier. I just hate all people.

Magus

Normally I'd agree, but I intend to release my fighting game one day. The characters are (probably) robots, and this was my idea before all this happened. With this atmosphere in the indie scene now, someone will say something like 'My girlfriend doesn't like robots.' and I'll be chased out of the industry with a thousand death threats for being misogynist.

Because proof isn't needed. An accusation will do just fine.

FrostCat

@VaelynPhi said:

So, whatever it's "about", as far as I'm concerned it's now basically just a codeword for "trolls" and any sensible human should probably be running for the hills.

That's kind of like saying all men should be treated as rapists because a few are. It also means ignoring all the things GG is talking about, like the corruption in gaming journalism.

Buddy

@Magus said:

I'll be chased out of the industry with a thousand death threats for being misogynist.

Don't be a dummy. If you release a misogynist game, you'll have a guaranteed audience among all the gamergators.

@FrostCat said:

ignoring all the things GG is talking about

Worth it!

FrostCat

@Buddy said:

> ignoring all the things GG is talking about

Worth it!

Glad to know you don't care if a game's really good or the dev slept with the reviewers.

Buddy

Um, I can play the game? Metacritic? Can one person sleep with every reviewer? Wouldn't cash be easier?

tarunik

@VaelynPhi said:

I dunno about gamers, but certainly the major action happening amongst those who self-describe as gamergaters is trolls sending death threats, doxxing, trolling... So, whatever it's "about", as far as I'm concerned it's now basically just a codeword for "trolls" and any sensible human should probably be running for the hills.

Yeah, I've tried to make this point several times, but some folks simply don't realize that once the drive a through your label, you aren't going to get it back.

@Magus said:

Did you know that GG started when some people on Wizardchan's depressed virgins board swore about how much they hated Depression Quest? One of it's maker's friends linked her there to see the bad things they were saying about her and her game, and so she started up a massive flamestorm against these 'harassers'. She started saying that her anonymous death threats through email and phone calls came from that board, a place for people who are afraid to talk to people on phones. Suddenly, there was an inrush of 'they should all have their balls cut off with rusty butter knives' around the internet, toward a small group of people who just wanted to be left alone.

Yeah. Wizardchan got ran over by the

in their

just as much as the people who actually want to do something useful about the issues that face the SF/F world re: perceived (and sometimes actual) misogynism and the 'sex sells' problem.

@Magus said:

When the flames from that finally started dying down, a large number of journalists across multiple sites all wrote articles about how evil all gamers are and how the label needs to be thrown away. How gamers are really just misogynists.

Who disguised the @#$(@!)$

as a bandwagon? Makes 'em fools for hopping on it, that's for sure.

@Magus said:

I don't know about you, but as someone who plays video games, I don't like having these things suddenly attached to me. Every time anyone in GG tries to talk about the issues, they get shouted down as misogynists, no matter what they say. They receive graphic death threats.

I agree here -- the shouting is doing its darndest to drown out rational debate; GG is just a boilover of something that's been simmering in forums and comment sections for quite a while, though -- the SJWs have been lurking around the shadows of internet debate for years, and so have the hardcore supertrolls such as GNAA; with an issue as emotionally contested as misogynism in gaming + SF/F (or collectively 'nerd culture'), it was bound to happen. The mess with Zoe Quinn was just a convenient nucleation point...

FrostCat

@Buddy said:

Um, I can play the game?

Sure. Are you going to buy it first or pirate it?

I like how you tar the entire GG movement with excesses of the worst people on that side, but anything AGG goes is just fine.

Some people might consider that bigotry.

Buddy

Modern day journalism is just a spectacle of the semi-rich, exulting in the chance to partake in a now-irrelevant institution they thought they always wanted, now that anyone with the finger on the actual pulse has realized the the real power comes from redefining the very nature of discussion on the internet.

Buddy

@FrostCat said:

but anything AGG goes is just fine.

I don't think that's true; I feel that I've admitted that the anti-gg crew is also a bunch of self-important activists and I hate them equally, and that I think the way some people make out like an attack on them is an attack on all women is just as problematic as anything else that's going on.

But, in the end, you can't play both sides of the field, and you can't have a good flamewar if you keep agreeing with people.

@FrostCat said:

Sure. Are you going to buy it first or pirate it?

Look, I get all my gaming news from Corin Tucker's Stalker, and if a ctstalker review has been paid for with sex, I'm completely willing to buy the game to support that.

Magus

If my worst fears do ever happen, I can at least rest assured that I'll have an interesting response. Namely, that my game, which is likely to be all genderless robots, is actually based on a game with only female characters, all of whom wear rather a lot of clothing. size=8[/size]

I'm not really expecting it to be a problem, I'm just unhappy with this added danger. Succeeding as an indie developer is hard enough as it is.

chubertdev

Women of the Iditarod?

Magus

Quick glance at google says you're saying something about sleds, and therefore must be wrong on several levels.

The reason for my switch to robots is to do with the game mechanics, interestingly enough. Though I can't honestly say I'm not ripping off medarot to some extent.

VaelynPhi

@Magus said:

But sure, they're all trolls.

I never said they were all trolls. I said the bulk of what was going on was driven by trolls. There is quite a difference between these statements.

I am skeptical of the history you have given, in particular of the "journalists suddenly declare gamers evil" part. Having actually read many of those articles, I do not see them reflecting the narrative you have presented. In fact, most of them were contrary in nature, highlighting how gaming is no longer just white males with money. The fact that this made a bunch of people butthurt is only amusing to me.

@Magus said:

I just hate to see people who are actually being attacked actively by the media dismissed as simple trolls.

I have yet to see evidence that they are being attacked. However, I most certainly did not characterize them as trolls.

@chubertdev said:

I just hate all people.

This is very close to my current attitude.

@Magus said:

Because proof isn't needed. An accusation will do just fine.

I can understand the impetus behind this notion, but it also speaks of a ridiculous insecurity. If you feel like merely being accused of something is oppressive... how do you cope? Seriously.

@FrostCat said:

That's kind of like saying all men should be treated as rapists because a few are. It also means ignoring all the things GG is talking about, like the corruption in gaming journalism.

I have yet to see that there is any such "corruption", especially along the lines that have been alleged with the gamergate controversy. If anything, journalism is weak, toothless, and overly positive, gaming or otherwise; hardly corrupt.

Also, that is absolutely nothing like saying "all men are rapists", which is both ridiculous and nonsensical. What I did say is that the movement has been hijacked and is no longer useful for what many in it regard as its purpose. This is similar to the "breast cancer awareness" nonsense, which does little to actually benefit breast cancer research.

@FrostCat said:

[...]dev slept with the reviewers.

If you think this happened in any meaningful way, you have an incorrect set of facts. This is like claiming that I got a tax break because I slept with someone who works at the DMV.

@tarunik said:

[...]the shouting is doing its darndest to drown out rational debate[....]

I think the #1 thing about the whole thing that pisses me off is that it has contributed to the popularity of Anita Sarkeesian. The fact that anyone takes her shitty "scholarship" seriously bothers me to no end. She is as legitimate a reviewer of video games as Food Babe is of agricultural technology.

Magus

I'm not offended by the fact that I may be accused, I'm offended that if I am, no one will believe anything I say afterward, and no refutation will suffice.

However, if you think it is acceptable for a journalist to sleep with the person they report on, you really understand nothing. No one is immune to bias, and a journalist's job is to be s unbiased s possible. Grayson crossed that line, and that will remain fact even if you try to call it non-real.

Overall, I just don't want to live in a world where people think it's okay to label anyone they disagree with as absolute scum and cause the torches and pitchforks to come out. Siccing an angry mob at someone for criticizing sarkeesian and friends is just messed up.

boomzilla

@VaelynPhi said:

I dunno about gamers, but certainly the major action happening amongst those who self-describe as gamergaters is trolls sending death threats, doxxing, trolling.

Eh, maybe. It's certainly being emphasized and reported on. But internet death threats are pretty common for anyone with a high profile, so I tend to tune them out. And I'm not surprised at more outrageous behavior getting more attention.

But to say that's what it's all About seems to miss the point. Honestly, I think the retards getting the threats from other retards need to have their points of view made more visible so they can be vociferously mocked by the rest of society.

But I'll also admit that I'm not following anything terribly closely, because I don't really care about video games or their wider industry. It's a small thing going on in a subculture to which I don't belong, and there are plenty of other things to keep me outraged.

boomzilla

@Buddy said:

...and you can't have a good flamewar if you keep agreeing with people.

You just need to be creative enough with language to convince people that you aren't agreeing with them.

boomzilla

@VaelynPhi said:

I did say is that the movement has been hijacked and is no longer useful for what many in it regard as its purpose.

OK, I guess I can mostly agree with that, which I think goes right along with what I just posted.

VaelynPhi

@Magus said:

I'm not offended by the fact that I may be accused, I'm offended that if I am, no one will believe anything I say afterward, and no refutation will suffice.

I can understand how this might be frustrating, but, frankly, it happens so often for so many different reasons, it seems nitpicky to single out issues related to sexism. We live in a world that assumes criminality in real ways that go far beyond flamewars and internet arguments. (Take the drug war as just a single example.) As far as ideological wars go, frankly, if you can't defend yourself against baseless accusations because they're not listening, just leave. I certainly feel no obligation to make people who've forfeited reality appreciate the facts. I try, but if there is no actual discussion, what could be the point?

I also know that it's galling to have someone unjustly spoil your reputation. However, this is a hazard of life, and really can't be avoided except by avoiding people altogether.

@Magus said:

However, if you think it is acceptable for a journalist to sleep with the person they report on, you really understand nothing. No one is immune to bias, and a journalist's job is to be s unbiased s possible. Grayson crossed that line, and that will remain fact even if you try to call it non-real.

I think the major issue here is the "person they report on" part. A game journalist being involved with a game developer is not news. A game journalist being involved with a game developer they then review might be. So far, I have seen no evidence that the latter situation has occurred.

There is a broader philosophical issue I'd take with the "journalist's job = being unbiased" thing, as I'm not sure it's true. Part of journalism is having and giving perspective on events. Good journalists often strive to give perspective that is based on facts and straightforward reasoning. Bad journalists... are pretty much the rule now. It does not make me happy, but I also think that if anyone's going to talk about ethics in journalism, game journalism gets last place. But this is orthogonal to the point that gamergate has nothing to do with someone's affair.

The other disconnect over this is the notion that, even had it happened, someone's affair influencing a review is even on the radar of corruption here. How about all the blockbusters that get amazing reviews all the damn time, even though they're the same old recycled garbage? Money, as usual, is way more important when you talk about corruption than sex could ever be.

@Magus said:

Overall, I just don't want to live in a world where people think it's okay to label anyone they disagree with as absolute scum and cause the torches and pitchforks to come out. Siccing an angry mob at someone for criticizing sarkeesian and friends is just messed up.

I agree, and have sometimes found it hard to interact with certain feminist groups online. I have often been attacked and mischaracterized immediately, even before I have given my full perspective. But, seriously, this is not unique to the feminists. This happens politically when talking to liberals or conservatives. (I support nuclear power and I think "organic" food is a scam; I also generally support social programs and believe in a strong federal government. And, I think the leaders of both parties are way too influenced by money. Additionally, I think libertarianism is bullshit. I'm sure that'll win me some friends. Heh.)

I also agree re: Sarkeesian. The bees tend to rally around her, and criticism of her nonsense tends to prompt an immediate stinging. However, most feminists are no more like this than most men are like rapists. The internet just tends to bring out bad behavior.

VaelynPhi

@boomzilla said:

Eh, maybe. It's certainly being emphasized and reported on. But internet death threats are pretty common for anyone with a high profile, so I tend to tune them out. And I'm not surprised at more outrageous behavior getting more attention.

But to say that's what it's all About seems to miss the point. Honestly, I think the retards getting the threats from other retards need to have their points of view made more visible so they can be vociferously mocked by the rest of society.

But I'll also admit that I'm not following anything terribly closely, because I don't really care about video games or their wider industry. It's a small thing going on in a subculture to which I don't belong, and there are plenty of other things to keep me outraged.

My BF is a game developer, and I am a pretty heavy gamer. I also tend to enjoy lots of indie, or at least off-beat, games. For this reason, I've followed the events somewhat and taken an interest in what can be shown factually to have happened. I see this controversy as having two partially valid sides being inflamed by a third group that is more or less disinterested in the actual resolution of the problem. This damages gaming as an industry, and especially as it is the small developers making off-beat games who have mostly been attacked, reduces the likelihood of me seeing more varied and more interesting games. In the meantime, the big outfits remain completely unaffected. IE, there is no real change happening where it might positively influence the industry.

@boomzilla said:

OK, I guess I can mostly agree with that, which I think goes right along with what I just posted.

I wish it weren't so, but I think that, like the Green movement, it's been soiled too much by bad tactics. This is not unusual with fringe groups fighting for recognition. Just look at the craziness in the Middle East.

Magus

@VaelynPhi said:

As far as ideological wars go, frankly, if you can't defend yourself against baseless accusations because they're not listening, just leave.

I get what you're trying to say, and would normally agree, but this is happening in an industry I intend to join. As I've said before, I intend to release a fighting game one day. The atmosfear around the indie scene is brutal. People are terrified of even attracting the interest of the likes of quinn, because one tweet from her or her friends is enough to have an army camped on your doorstep.

If TFYC can be attacked by 'feminists' for supporting female game developers, and their personal details leaked, how can I be safe? All I want is to be able to finish and try selling my game, and deal with the normal crushing defeat of being ignored.

I really don't know what the solution is, but the more serious parts of GG are doing a good job of keeping it civilized and focusing on writing letters to advertisers to get them to stop supporting sites who attack their own userbase, who delete any comments that support gamers, yet allow 'cut off the balls of all gamers!' and those who allow their reporters to fund the Patreon of people they report on (you wanted money to be involved, you got it!).

VaelynPhi

@Magus said:

I get what you're trying to say, and would normally agree, but this is happening in an industry I intend to join. As I've said before, I intend to release a fighting game one day. The atmosfear around the indie scene is brutal. People are terrified of even attracting the interest of the likes of quinn, because one tweet from her or her friends is enough to have an army camped on your doorstep.

If TFYC can be attacked by 'feminists' for supporting female game developers, and their personal details leaked, how can I be safe? All I want is to be able to finish and try selling my game, and deal with the normal crushing defeat of being ignored.

I really don't know what the solution is, but the more serious parts of GG are doing a good job of keeping it civilized and focusing on writing letters to advertisers to get them to stop supporting sites who attack their own userbase, who delete any comments that support gamers, yet allow 'cut off the balls of all gamers!' and those who allow their reporters to fund the Patreon of people they report on (you wanted money to be involved, you got it!).

This uncertainty I can understand. It's part of my opposition to activist-style nonsense: once a social movement starts using terror tactics, they've pretty much gone out the window as far as I'm concerned. (I'm looking at you, PETA!)

Unfortunately, I think the only solution is to appeal to the public. If you have crazies camping your office and you're just trying to get a business going, you have to depend on the people who buy the game to be able to spend their money rationally. When you figure out how to get people to behave rationally, call me. I mostly want to ride your coattails to that Nobel Prize.

Keep in mind that we have anti-vaccine morons putting pressure on medical organizations, anti-gmo morons putting pressure on the FDA, USDA, and others, homeopaths nagging the WHO, astrologers, UFO "ologists", and all kinds of insane groups exerting real political pressure on otherwise sane organizations. This is the rule, not the exception. So having to deal with a radical element in gaming is really no different from any other industry.

I still thingk [damn typing fingers] gamergate needs to get a new name, though.

Magus

If a name is enough, I hope that happens.

But it's not that hard for someone to say, "Hey, aren't you just GamerGate?", or for all the trolls to swap over as well.

It might convince the media for an hour or so, though.

boomzilla

https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/2020021510/the-ride-hail-utopia-that-got-stuck-in-traffic

Most users take their own private Lyfts and Ubers, shunning pooling even though it costs them more. Rather than the apps becoming a model of algorithm-driven efficiency, drivers in major cities cruise for fares without passengers an estimated 40% of the time.