Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome
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Hovering over the timestamp should give you the URL in your statusbar/whatever:
<img src="/uploads/default/2984/0d17fc2759155dac.png" width="525" height="59>
1158 is the topic id, 114 is the post id.
It turns out the timestamp is also the long-sought direkt link to the post... intuitive. Very intuitive.
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It turns out the timestamp is also the long-sought direkt link to the post... intuitive. Very intuitive.
As opposed to the totally intuitive 'chain' icon which does exactly the same thing...? ;)
Anyway, they're both mentioned in this FAQ if you're interested.
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As opposed to the totally intuitive 'chain' icon which does exactly the same thing...? ;)
Erm... now that you mention it...Filed under: Oh, there is a "chain" icon...
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I don't have the devices to test, but I would bet you get the same experience on an iPhone
Well, we do. iOS is a quite bit smarter about this, hiding the address bar in landscape. Also, it doesn't have that extra substitution bar on top of the keyboard. (This is instead shown as a popup over the actual word it is attempting to 'autocorrect' for you, which is IMHO much better.)I can't wait until Apple introduces their 4.7" and 5.5" iPhone 6 and ditches their tiny jewelphone strategy. I will be dropping my Android phone experiment immediately at that point. Android is literally the Windows 3.1 of phones. It works, for the most part, but it's totally cobbled together.
It is up to you to make sure that Discourse is available in every scenario.
Even eInk Kindles? And IE6? As @awesomerobot noted, the Android landscape story is the very definition of WTF once you expand the keyboard. "Here's your tiny sliver of content area, enjoy!"Oh, there is a "chain" icon...
Chain link icon.
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@faoileag said:
Oh, there is a "chain" icon
Chain link icon.
Form the Oxford English Dictionary:
Chain (noun): A series of linked metal rings
chain-link (adjective): Made of wire in a diamond-shaped mesh: a chain-link fenceFiled under: pedantic dickweedery, I know, but nevertheless
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It turns out the timestamp is also the long-sought direkt link to the post
Timestamp as direct link is how most sites do it. And it's not hidden, like keyboard shortcuts. So yeah, it's plenty intuitive, I think.
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Taped in the middle nerd glasses, at an angle.
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#NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Even eInk Kindles? And IE6? As @awesomerobot noted, the Android landscape story is the very definition of WTF once you expand the keyboard. "Here's your tiny sliver of content area, enjoy!"
And with that statement, you just completely ignored every Android tablet on the market ...
As for eInk Kindles, even Amazon admits that those browsers are experimental. I'd call that an "edge case".
And I don't think you need to worry about a browser that is no longer actively supported. Come on. I assume you haven't traded your brain away. Use it.
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Android 4.4.2 is almost win7 [Though, I guess it would be more appropriate to compare it to something like KDE desktop?]
Android 4.3 is aaaaaalmost win7
Android 4.0-4.2 is far more along the lines of winXP
Android 2.x is win 3.1
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We speak not its name.
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Mojave.
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And with that statement, you just completely ignored every Android tablet on the market ...
You just made that up? Tablets are obviously better than phones in terms of available space. That's what all the examples posted earlier in the thread were referring to.
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My experience is that tablet support has largely been acceptable — but it can definitely be better, and will be!
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You just made that up? Tablets are obviously better than phones in terms of available space. That's what all the examples posted earlier in the thread were referring to.
No I didn't just make it up. When editing a post on my 10 inch Android tablet, I can't quote, I can't browse, I can't do anything but type. And that's whether I use it in mobile view or in the desktop view. Discourse is not mobile friendly. @codinghorror made a blanket statement about Android, so I used to expand the discussion to the entire mobile experience, because the entire mobile experience is shitty.
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I can't quote, I can't browse, I can't do anything but type.
iOS seems a little bit better, but I think in general with mobile, if you have the keyboard up, highlighting doesn't work except in the text field, and that's not Discourse, but the mobile OS.
the entire mobile experience is shitty.
This. iOS seems to be slightly better (though in that case, I'm on a higher bandwidth wifi than when I'm at home with either my iPad or my phone, and my phone is only ever on 3G at work, so it's all conjecture), but it's still bad, what with all the jittering and jumping on topic loads and the wondering at times if I actually tapped something because it doesn't give me an idea it's actually loading until after I tap again and then that second tap does something.
Filed under: [Rambled on a bit at the end there.](#tag2)
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When editing a post on my 10 inch Android tablet, I can't quote
What about the quote button? Is that there? Are any of the style buttons.
Filed Under: Just answer the question with words, Not looking for a screenshot
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I think part of it might be that Jeff has a self proclaimed preference for iOS, so more effort has been directed there.
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Large tablets should not get the mobile layout. For example the iPad is just using the desktop layout. I had a Nexus 10 to test with at one point but the performance was abysmal, and virtually no Android apps supported the large screen so I gave it away. Maybe the user agent makes us think it is a Nexus 7, which does get the mobile layout.
(Typed on Nexus 7)
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Android has some severe performance problems. Hopefully they will be resolved in the future.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/why-is-discourse-so-slow-on-android/8823
Watch the YouTube video there.
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Nope, for some reason, it decides to zoom in when I go to the edit panel, and those all get pushed off the screen. I'll have to look and see if the zooming is a modifiable behavior.
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Large tablets should not get the mobile layout. For example the iPad is just using the desktop layout. I had a Nexus 10 to test with at one point but the performance was abysmal, and virtually no Android apps supported the large screen so I gave it away. Maybe the user agent makes us think it is a Nexus 7, which does get the mobile layout.
(Typed on Nexus 7)
I get the desktop layout by default, but I still have issues with the edit are getting pushed off screen, so I thought I'd try the mobile layout. No joy.
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Apparently to you, reading is a barrier to reading. All of my complaints at the end there were for both mobile OSes.
Filed under: [Actually, there's very little jittering on my Droid Maxx, but plenty on my iPad](#tag2)
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Android has some severe performance problems. Hopefully they will be resolved in the future.
https://meta.discourse.org/t/why-is-discourse-so-slow-on-android/8823
Watch the YouTube video there.
Based on that post, you are basing all your analysis on a single device, which is a very small sample. There are hundreds of Android devices out there. I have no problems with speed over wifi or 4G on my HTC Sensation 4G (which is a 2 year old phone), or on my Samsung Galaxy Tab 4. Sorry that the Nexus 7 you chose to go with is at the lower end of the scale in terms of capabilities, but that doesn't mean that every Android device is slow.
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Watching the video describes exactly what you typed, to the letter: delays on Android that are so severe (1 plus second) you don't know if you actually tapped it. And that is on a recent device, Nexus 4, with Android latest as of Sept 2013.
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And to think, all my Android-owning friends mock me for preferring iOS...
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I use the Nexus 5 as my primary phone and it is brutally slow. To be fair, it seems we are hitting some kind of edge case in Android Chrome V8 -- there are open V8 bug reports in the topic I linked.
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Watching the video describes exactly what you typed, to the letter: delays on Android that are so severe (1 plus second) you don't know if you actually tapped it.
Other websites work fine on Android, what's wrong with Discourse?
Filed under: aside from the obvious multitude of problems
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Watching the video describes exactly what you typed, to the letter: delays on Android that are so severe (1 plus second) you don't know if you actually tapped it. And that is on a recent device, Nexus 4, with Android latest as of Sept 2013.
But he wasn't talking about just Android. Don't you listen?
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Well, like I said, it might be something specific to the design of the Nexus line. I am aware that at one point the phone and the tablet were made by different companies, and I'm not sure if that's the case now, but Google does have a big say in the hardware design.
As I pointed out in my last post, I have no problems with my 2 year old HTC Android phone or my brand new Samsung tablet. And thats even on topics such as the Likes thread. You now have evidence that it isn't just the OS.
Edit: My phone runs ICS (4.2) and my tablet has KitKat (4.4).
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No repro of delays on tap on iOS here. You will definitely see it on Android as due to the aforementioned V8 bugs, Android is literally 3x slower (or more) at running Discourse. Again, see the YouTube video.
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This is interesting information. I would it expect it to be the other way around.
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So you want me to watch a video (again) which shows that your software rubs against an edge case on one particular Android device? And you use that one device as evidence that all of Android is bad? Maybe you could get away with that for iOS, where all the devices are similar enough that a performance issue on one will be a performance issue on another. But there are dozens of current Android models, all with different specs, and different tweaks to the OS. Just because an issue occurs on one device doesn't mean that it will occur on another. That's part of why the Google Play store allows you to filter apps by device, so you can block devices that you know your app won't work on. You cannot use one device as an example for all Android devices. It is an insufficient sample. And no, a Nexus tablet and a Nexus phone does not increase the pool sufficiently.
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I don't experience any type of delay when creating posts, browsing, or replying to users [Samsung galaxy S4].
Using various features is a bit of a pain, but overall the forum is at least as responsive as my work computer.
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I'm on a note 2 running slimkat (android 4.4.4) and it's just as smooth as my wife's iPhone 5s. My nexus 7 gives me little issue (but slightly lags compared to my note)
Edit: should also mention I use chrome beta on android
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Are you suffering from a rare form of Stockholm Syndrome known as Discourse Syndrome? Symptoms include:
Original dislike to outright hate of Discourse.
Gradual change to acceptance
Acceptance later replaced by actually liking DiscourseAre you channelizing Rob Ashton talk on Javascript?
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I had a Nexus 10 to test with at one point but the performance was abysmal, and virtually no Android apps supported the large screen so I gave it away.
- You don't bother with Apps, you had the Nexus 10 to test Discourse with.
- If the performance is abysmal, you don't give away the device but try to make your software perform better.
- You are (part) owner of the company that develops Discourse, and IIRC you got VC capital to develop it. In any normal shop that includes getting different hardware to test the product on.
Sheesh, I worked for a company in the business of providing video chats in 1998, and not only had they a range of machines / OSes to test the front-end on, they had several testers as well, doing nothing but.
This is 2014 and the range of devices your product can be used on has multiplied. Not doing thorough tests on as many platforms as possible is,,frankly, weird.
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1. You don't bother with Apps, you had the Nexus 10 to test Discourse with.
2. If the performance is abysmal, you don't give away the device but try to make your software perform better.
3. You are (part) owner of the company that develops Discourse, and IIRC you got VC capital to develop it. In any normal shop that includes getting different hardware to test the product on.+∞
Filed Under: Because 1 like just wasn't enough
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There's functionally zero difference between Android/Chrome on a 10" device and the 7" Nexus 7 that I have. The screen is larger: that's it. Same browser, same OS, but more pixels.
We also use the desktop layout on 10"+ devices so there's almost nothing to test. We treat large tablets as desktop devices, they get the same layout you're using right now (assuming you are on a desktop or laptop).
Nexus 10 is a wildly underpowered device for the screen size and resolution it's attempting to run. On top of that, Android app support for largescreen 10"+ devices is still extremely poor.
I'm sure future iterations will be better. It is kind of curious that Nexus 7 was refreshed already but Nexus 10 hasn't been refreshed even once.
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No repro of delays on tap on iOS here. You will definitely see it on Android as due to the aforementioned V8 bugs, Android is literally 3x slower (or more) at running Discourse.
So, basically, you are saying: we develop our software for iOS and desktop, fuck the rest.Can't say I've ever worked for a company that treated a large part of their potential customers with that much disrespect.
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Not at all. Just trying to explain that you're going to see very poor performance specific to Android (1-4 seconds on tap) due to some unfortunate bugs in the platform.
I'm hoping that switching to HTMLbars rendering will address some of this, but that is a post V1 thing for us.
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There's functionally zero difference between Android/Chrome on a 10" device and the 7" Nexus 7 that I have. The screen is larger: that's it. Same browser, same OS, but more pixels.
For christ's sake, you are developing a fucking web app. That's front-end code execution. The screen size is the least of the problems you face there.Nexus 10 is a wildly underpowered device for the screen size and resolution it's attempting to run.
Oh, is it? Or is it that your frontend just scales miserably on a slow device?Sorry, when you are developing web apps, you can't expect anything from the device your app is running on. Ignoring slower devices is "This site can only be viewed in Internet Explorer" all over again.
I'm sure future iterations will be better.
Wrong statement. Let me fix that for you:"Future versions of Discourse will work better on slow devices with small screens".
There. Isn't that better?`Now make it happen.
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We're basically building for the next 10 years, not the previous 10 years. We are 1 year into that plan.
So we assume that subpar implementations like IE9 and below, and Nexus 10, and iPhone 4, and iPad 2/3, eventually die off naturally as newer, better, faster browsers and devices are released.
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Not at all. Just trying to explain that you're going to see very poor performance specific to Android (1-4 seconds on tap) due to some unfortunate bugs in the platform.
If I am getting poor performance of a web app on a platform that covers roughly 40 to 50% of the mobile market, I work on my App and don't blame the platform. Sorry.And yes, I am there right now. I have built workarounds because touchmove is broken on some Android versions.
