It's Not a Small Enough World After All



  • I was about to post about how Google managed to fuck up their UI again by removing the maximum zoom level from maps and thus making it impossible to zoom out enough to see the map of the entire planet all at once but I just checked to get a screenshot and they seemed to have fixed that bug so it isn't there anymore for us to make fun of.

    So fuck you, Google. You robbed the forum of a hillarious and epic thread. Fuck. You. Google.



  • There should be a thread called "Fuck You Google".  I'm sure we could find plenty of things to post there.



  •  OWAIT! Found one.

    Someone needed to check their gmail on my computer. I went to sign out so they could sign in.  I signed out. Signed Out. SIGNED OUT. SIGNED OUT!!!!

    =>

     

    MOTHER JESUS-FUCKING CHRIS!  Does Google literally not know what "Sign Out" means?  Because, last I checked, it meant sign out of the fucking account-- not return to the log-in page where my username is on display. And there's no "sign in as other user" link. Does security mean nothing? Does what hell pop brain shut rumball asstoe AAAAAAAAA!



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    Someone needed to check their gmail on my computer. I went to sign out so they could sign in.
    Yeah, don't do that. Just open a new Incognito or Private Browsing window for them to use.



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    And there's no "sign in as other user" link. Does security mean nothing? Does what hell pop brain shut rumball asstoe AAAAAAAAA!
    One Google to rule them all



  • This really is the Fuck You Google thread after all

    @Lorne Kates said:

    Does Google literally not know what "Sign Out" means?
    No. Apparently the concept of a computer being used by more than one person no longer exists.



  • Google knows all



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @Lorne Kates said:
    Does Google literally not know what "Sign Out" means?
    No. Apparently the concept of a computer being used by more than one person no longer exists.

    Switching to a different user is a OS task, not a web browser task.

    The correct solution to Lorne's problem is to log his guest in as the (shocker) "Guest" account, and let them use that browser.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @Lorne Kates said:
    Does Google literally not know what "Sign Out" means?
    No. Apparently the concept of a computer being used by more than one person no longer exists.

    Switching to a different user is a OS task, not a web browser task.

    The correct solution to Lorne's problem is to log his guest in as the (shocker) "Guest" account, and let them use that browser.

    I wonder if there is some kind of browser OS. Or an OS browser. Hmm, I wonder if anyone has invented an OS browser OS browser OS that allows user switching user switching... Perhaps also with random random desktop search.


  • @blakeyrat said:

    Switching to a different user is a OS task, not a web browser task.
    Bullshit. It's often convenient to set things up that way, but there are plenty of use cases for having the local resources the local OS makes available to a single user account available to multiple real people. The idea that local OS user accounts should necessarily map one-to-one to real people, or even to user accounts defined elsewhere for other purposes, is laughably oversimplistic.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @Lorne Kates said:
    Does Google literally not know what "Sign Out" means?
    No. Apparently the concept of a computer being used by more than one person no longer exists.

    Switching to a different user is a OS task, not a web browser task.

    The correct solution to Lorne's problem is to log his guest in as the (shocker) "Guest" account, and let them use that browser.

    The correct solution is to leave things the way they were (and the way that 99.9999999% of all websites have always worked since the beginning of time) -- when you "Sign Out" you are actually signed out. With no need to go through silly bullshit like signing in as a different user at the OS level.

    Sure, on Lorne's computer (or yours or mine) you can have then log on as a guest. OK. Fine.  What happens with a computer (library, Internet Cafe, whatever) that gets used by lots of people and everyone is a "Guest". Google just screwed it up.

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    The correct solution is to leave things the way they were (and the way that 99.9999999% of all websites except YAHOO! have always worked since the beginning of time) -- when you "Sign Out" you are actually signed out. With no need to go through silly bullshit like signing in as a different user at the OS level.

    Whimsied that for you.



  • Protip: If you need to open a webpage on someone else's computer, do it in incognito/privates browsing/inprivates browsing. That way you don't fuck up their history or have the ability to forget to log out. Just close the window when you're done.



  • Look, I'm not telling you you have to LIKE how it's designed, or AGREE with how it's designed, I'm just explaining how it's designed.

    Whatever your opinion on the matter, signing on to a different user is an OS function and not a web browser function. Say "bullshit" all you want, it won't change the reality of the situation.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Whatever your opinion on the matter, signing on to a different user is an OS function and not a web browser function. Say "bullshit" all you want, it won't change the reality of the situation.
    The situation is that signing on as a different OS user is a different concept from signing on as a different web service user. Live in your own "reality" all you want, it won't change your opinion on this matter from bullshit.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The correct solution to Lorne's problem is to log his guest in as the (shocker) "Guest" account, and let them use that browser.

    And when that guest is faced with the same page Lorne just posted, but with an earlier guest's name instead of Lorne's: what then, Usability Guy?



  • Google obviously agrees with me, and they're the ones you have to convince. Good luck.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Google obviously agrees with me, and they're the ones you have to convince. Good luck.
    I don't have to convince Google of squat. I switched to Fastmail.



  • @flabdablet said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    The correct solution to Lorne's problem is to log his guest in as the (shocker) "Guest" account, and let them use that browser.
    And when that guest is faced with the same page Lorne just posted, but with an earlier guest's name instead of Lorne's: what then, Usability Guy?

    You don't know what a guest account is, do you?

    Holy shit, is there a tech forum populated by people who know SOMETHING about computers? Wouldn't that be nice.



  • Closed: could not reproduce

    Were you, perhaps, logged in to your browser?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    You don't know what a guest account is, do you?
    If you're not talking about the Guest user account that's built into Windows, WTF are you talking about?



  • @Ben L. said:

    Were you, perhaps, logged in to your browser?
     

    How the fuck do you log into a browser, and why in the name of unholy Buddah would you?  Stop making things up.



  • Mike Hunt knows, he posted about it (DailyWTF emailed me the post) then deleted it when he realized what an idiot he was being.

    Flabdablet, maybe you use a broken OS, so let me explain in tiny words:

    The guest account doesn't save any settings or configuration. This includes browser cache and cookies. Meaning: your scenario can never happen, because the browser would be "fresh", without any saved states to identify the other people who had previously logged-on.

    The only time it would be relevant I guess is if you had two guests wanting to use the computer in a row. In that case, you could just log off and log on to the same account to give the second guest a fresh environment.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Mike Hunt knows, he posted about it (DailyWTF emailed me the post) then deleted it when he realized what an idiot he was being.
    No, I was trying to edit my post and srewed up. Decided to start over and shit happened.

    Yes, technically, logging into Windows as a different user solves the problem. So does opening a Private Browsing window. So does telling everyone "You can't use my computer to check your email so fuck off". And none of those is a good idea. Until recently, signing out of Google meant exactly that. Now they've changed it. Another pointless change that fixes something that didn't need fixing.



  • In any case, it turns out the Guest account (at least the default one, named "Guest") actually is broken in Windows 7. Huh. So I'm wrong too.

    Well whatever, I still don't see anything wrong with what Google's doing here, and having multiple people share the same OS account is a big pet peeve of mine, so if Google convinces a few more people to make computer accounts, I'm good with that.



  • @Mike Hunt said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Mike Hunt knows, he posted about it (DailyWTF emailed me the post) then deleted it when he realized what an idiot he was being.
    No, I was trying to edit my post and srewed up. Decided to start over and shit happened.

    Yes, technically, logging into Windows as a different user solves the problem. So does opening a Private Browsing window. So does telling everyone "You can't use my computer to check your email so fuck off". And none of those is a good idea. Except the second one and the first one and maybe the third one if you're an asshole like me.

    FTFY



  • @Ben L. said:

    Closed: could not reproduce
    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Install Chrome on a Windows computer
    2. Enable the Guest user account
    3. Pretending to be a guest who knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    4. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    5. When confronted with the Chrome first-run sign-in window, sign in with valid Gmail credentials
    6. Use Gmail
    7. When finished using Gmail, click the username in the top right corner of the Gmail browser window, then click Sign Out
    8. Log off Windows
    9. Pretending to be a second guest who also knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    10. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    11. Click the link to Gmail on the default home page

    Expected result: the screen you posted.

    Actual result: the screen Lorne posted, with the previous guest's Gmail account locked in.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The only time it would be relevant I guess is if you had two guests wanting to use the computer in a row. In that case, you could just log off and log on to the same account to give the second guest a fresh environment.
    Yes that's true. But I guarantee that a lot of people will never think of that. In a siituation where multiple people are using the same computer, the vast majority of people will just sign out of Google and walk away, thinking that they are "Signed Out". And in 99.9% of the cases the next person who comes along will not think "I need to log out of Windows first and then log back in".



  • @flabdablet said:

    @Ben L. said:
    Closed: could not reproduce
    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Install Chrome on a Windows computer
    2. Enable the Guest user account
    3. Pretending to be a guest who knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    4. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    5. When confronted with the Chrome first-run sign-in window, sign in with valid Gmail credentials
    6. Use Gmail
    7. When finished using Gmail, click the username in the top right corner of the Gmail browser window, then click Sign Out
    8. Log off Windows
    9. Pretending to be a second guest who also knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    10. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    11. Click the link to Gmail on the default home page

    Expected result: the screen you posted.

    Actual result: the screen Lorne posted, with the previous guest's Gmail account locked in.

    Sounds like a bug in Windows. You should get that checked out. The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I still don't see anything wrong with what Google's doing here, and having multiple people share the same OS account is a big pet peeve of mine, so if Google convinces a few more people to make computer accounts, I'm good with that.
    So it's perfectly OK with you if a huge corporation perpetrates a complete UI fail as long as your personal preferences are catered for, meaning that basically every time you've made ex cathedra pronouncements on usability you've been full of shit? I'm good with that.



  • @Ben L. said:

    The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.
    This is documented where?



  • @flabdablet said:

    @Ben L. said:
    The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.
    This is documented where?

    That's the entire fucking POINT of a guest account.

    The real issue is why Windows 7 doesn't respect that. Vista did, I'm nearly 100% sure.



  • @flabdablet said:

    I'm good with that.

    Me too, now fuck off and let me enjoy my 30 proof egg nog.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The real issue is why Windows 7 doesn't respect that. Vista did, I'm nearly 100% sure.

    XP is the same. I'd be surprised to find out that Vista is any different.

    If Guest's profile isn't persistent, how is anybody supposed to set up a comfortable environment for their guests?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @flabdablet said:
    @Ben L. said:
    The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.
    This is documented where?

    That's the entire fucking POINT of a guest account.

    And that is documented where?

    After a bit of poking around, the Guest account is persistent. The first time you run Firefox it creates a new profile in  <font face="courier new,courier">C:\Users\Guest\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles. </font>Chrome does something similar and nothing appears to be deleted when you log off the Guest account.

    I did find this: http://winsupersite.com/windows-7/windows-7-feature-focus-guest-mode

    Windows 7 includes a nearly-hidden feature called Guest Mode that is
    primarily aimed at shared consumer PCs that need to be returned to their
    original running state after being used by a child or guest. The
    feature can be enabled on individual user accounts; when user logs off
    or the PC reboots, those accounts are wiped clean and returned to their
    original configuration. Guest Mode is useful for small classrooms,
    libraries, and other shared computing scenarios,

    Tip: Don't confuse Guest Mode with "Guest account." They are completely different things.

    Note: This feature has been removed from Windows 7 and will not appear in the final product.

    That last sentence is very strange since the article is dated October 2010, about a year after the release of Windows 7. The "tip" seems to imply that the "Guest Account" does save settings and "Guest Mode" doesn't.  It seems that nobody can figure out what the Guest account is or does.

     

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The real issue is why Windows 7 doesn't respect that. Vista did, I'm nearly 100% sure.
    I've got a Vista DVD in my desk drawer. If I wasn't so lazy I'd install it in VM just to see what happens. Maybe tomorrow.



  •  Why would someone bother signing out of Windows to switch accounts on a broken website? Firefox->History->Clear recent history... is so much faster.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @flabdablet said:
    @Ben L. said:
    The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.
    This is documented where?
    That's the entire fucking POINT of a guest account.

    Oh right, because no guest in my house could possibly have any legitimate reason to use any of my computers for anything requiring more than one logon session.

    What an oddly restricted little world you do live in. I guess the real one isn't small enough for you after all.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    Windows 7 includes a nearly-hidden feature called Guest Mode that is
    primarily aimed at shared consumer PCs that need to be returned to their
    original running state after being used by a child or guest. The
    feature can be enabled on individual user accounts; when user logs off
    or the PC reboots, those accounts are wiped clean and returned to their
    original configuration.

    Something similar exists in GDM and LightDM; never seen anybody actually use it. I think this is one of those technical done-for-completeness ideas that works less well in the real world than it seems it should.

    I have several customers who have wanted me to set up guest access on their Ubuntu and Debian boxes, and after I've helped them understand the behaviour of the inbuilt guest session support and given them a choice of that or a normal user account with username "visitors" and a normal password, they've all picked the latter. I have IIRC three customers who wanted me to turn on the inbuilt Windows Guest account, two of whom also wanted it password protected (yes, you can do that: NET USER GUEST * in an admin cmd window).

    @El_Heffe said:

    It seems that nobody can figure out what the Guest account is or does.

    By default, the Windows Guest account is not a member of the Users security group, is a member of Guests, and has no password. Even though Guest has a well-known SID I have yet to see it behave any differently from any other user account with similar settings. In particular there is nothing special about how Windows handles its profile folder.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    Apparently the concept of a computer being used by more than one person no longer exists.
    This is yet another manifestation of the Everything Is A Phone brain worms.



  • @flabdablet said:

    If Guest's profile isn't persistent, how is anybody supposed to set up a comfortable environment for their guests?

    In fact, at least on Windows 7, it is possible to assign a mandatory local profile to the Guest account (similar to how to assign a mandatory local profile to a normal user account as described here).

    • Enable the guest account, log into it and "set up a comfortale environment for your guests"
    • Log back in as administrator and create a copy of the \Users\Guest folder, named \Users\GuestMandatory.v2 (yes, sic!)
    • Make sure the owner of the new folder is the Administrators group
    • Rename the hidden system file ntuser.dat in the new folder to ntuser.man
    • Go to good old luser manager (lusrmgr.msc) and configure the profile path of the Guest account to be \Users\GuestMandatory (yes, without the .v2!)
    • Log in as Guest, and enjoy that every change you will make now will be lost when the next guest logs on (unless you change the Group Policy Object of the Guest account to drop the local profile on logoff instead of on logon)

    In case the last guest accidentally saved something in his profile, as an administrator you can still retrieve it until the next guest logs on.

    And I agree, TRWTF is that you have to do it manually, and that it involves so many steps so probably not many people will do it.



  • @mihi said:

    @flabdablet said:
    If Guest's profile isn't persistent, how is anybody supposed to set up a comfortable environment for their guests?

    In fact, at least on Windows 7, it is possible to assign a mandatory local profile to the Guest account (similar to how to assign a mandatory local profile to a normal user account as described here).

    • Enable the guest account, log into it and "set up a comfortale environment for your guests"
    • Log back in as administrator and create a copy of the \Users\Guest folder, named \Users\GuestMandatory.v2 (yes, sic!)
    • Make sure the owner of the new folder is the Administrators group
    • Rename the hidden system file ntuser.dat in the new folder to ntuser.man
    • Go to good old luser manager (lusrmgr.msc) and configure the profile path of the Guest account to be \Users\GuestMandatory (yes, without the .v2!)
    • Log in as Guest, and enjoy that every change you will make now will be lost when the next guest logs on (unless you change the Group Policy Object of the Guest account to drop the local profile on logoff instead of on logon)

    In case the last guest accidentally saved something in his profile, as an administrator you can still retrieve it until the next guest logs on.

    And I agree, TRWTF is that you have to do it manually, and that it involves so many steps so probably not many people will do it.

     

    Yes, that's so much easier than clicking "Sign Out" or "Private Browsing Mode". Thanksssssssssss.

    And people say Linux users do assbackwards complifuckated things.

     


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @Ben L. said:

    Protip: If you need to open a webpage on someone else's computer, do it in incognito/privates browsing/inprivates browsing. That way you don't fuck up their history or have the ability to forget to log out. Just close the window when you're done.
    TRWTF is that privates and inprivates are synonyms.



  • @joe.edwards said:

    @Ben L. said:
    Protip: If you need to open a webpage on someone else's computer, do it in incognito/privates browsing/inprivates browsing. That way you don't fuck up their history or have the ability to forget to log out. Just close the window when you're done.
    TRWTF is that privates and inprivates are synonyms.
    I'm just browsing some privates.



  • @Ben L. said:

    @joe.edwards said:
    @Ben L. said:
    Protip: If you need to open a webpage on someone else's computer, do it in incognito/privates browsing/inprivates browsing. That way you don't fuck up their history or have the ability to forget to log out. Just close the window when you're done.
    TRWTF is that privates and inprivates are synonyms.
    I'm just browsing some privates.
    Despite the name of the page, there is no porn at  <font face="courier new,courier">http://www.squarefree.com/pornzilla/</font>



  • You guys are sorely lacking in curiosity, otherwise you would have clicked the link at the bottom that says "Manage accounts on this device". And then, surprise, it lets you change to another login name.



  • @Ben L. said:

    @flabdablet said:
    @Ben L. said:
    Closed: could not reproduce
    Steps to reproduce:

    1. Install Chrome on a Windows computer
    2. Enable the Guest user account
    3. Pretending to be a guest who knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    4. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    5. When confronted with the Chrome first-run sign-in window, sign in with valid Gmail credentials
    6. Use Gmail
    7. When finished using Gmail, click the username in the top right corner of the Gmail browser window, then click Sign Out
    8. Log off Windows
    9. Pretending to be a second guest who also knows nothing about technology but wants to use their Gmail account, log on to Windows as Guest
    10. Launch Chrome by double-clicking its desktop icon
    11. Click the link to Gmail on the default home page

    Expected result: the screen you posted.

    Actual result: the screen Lorne posted, with the previous guest's Gmail account locked in.

    Sounds like a bug in Windows. You should get that checked out. The guest account isn't supposed to be able to store data persistently.

    I complained about this already in another thread. I use Firefox on Linux.

    @Ben L. said:

    Protip: If you need to open a webpage on someone else's computer, do it
    in incognito/privates browsing/inprivates browsing. That way you don't
    fuck up their history or have the ability to forget to log out. Just
    close the window when you're done.
    At least in my browser you need to close all incognito windows.

     

    Also:


     



  • Wow - you guys all let BlakeyRat divert you from a perfectly reasonable "Google screwed up (again)" thread into a discourse on account deisgn problems in [i]Windows[/i]. Well done, ratty!



  • @Planar said:

    You guys are sorely lacking in curiosity, otherwise you would have clicked the link at the bottom that says "Manage accounts on this device". And then, surprise, it lets you change to another login name.

    That's not what that did when I clicked it. Instead, it took me to a screen where I could choose between accounts already saved "on this device" (which I'm guessing means "in cookies in this browser", unless Google is doing something fucking antisocial like using flash cookies). As a guest wanting to use this browser just to check my email and sign out when I'm done, adding my email address to those saved on this device is absolutely not what I want to do. Also, all attempts to remove the previous "guest's" saved account silently failed, which I'm guessing again (no hints given by Google, naturally) is due to it having inadvertently been used to sign in to Chrome in that very first session.

    The whole thing is a complete and utter fustercluck, and Private Browsing / Incognito really is the least tedious way to deal with it. It's a bullshit one-size-fits-all UI design motivated by no better idea than "consistent UX across all platforms" where "consistent" has been lazily taken to mean "identical". The Everything Is A Phone brain worms have thoroughly infected Google and show no signs of dying off any time soon.



  • @flabdablet said:

    That's not what that did when I clicked it. Instead, it took me to a screen where I could choose between accounts already saved "on this device" (which I'm guessing means "in cookies in this browser",
    Yes, if you sign out and then delete the appropriate cookies you'll be signed out for real.


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