Do nothing without doing anything
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Five whole things I have to memorize, just to quit!
-shrug-
and that's a bad thing?
No, seriously though, the mouse was invented for a reason
yes it was, For videogames.honestly 99% of the time i'm coding i never touch the mouse. i just memorized the dozen or so keyboard shorcuts i needed to navigate my computer.
in fact i noticed this morning that my work mouse has a nice layer of dust on it.... i should clean that.
of course that being said other people work differently, so if it's not the same for you that's fine.
but you don't get to tell me that ViM is not an IDE. cause it totally is. It just might not be one you want to use (and that's okay)
:simple_smile:
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and that's a bad thing?
People can hold seven things in their working memory. You just bumped all but two of the previous commands I was working on out of my working memory.
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Also:
you don't get to tell me that ViM is not an IDE. cause it totally is.
I wasn't even saying that, I was just saying it's crap :)
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Keyboard shortcuts often end up in muscle-memory, especially when you use them loads ;)
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Not for me. Pretty much the only shortcuts I can remember on a daily basis are ctrl-alt-del, Win-L, and Win-R
I don't see why "ability to memorize keyboard shortcuts" makes someone a better programmer. I suck at memorizing things, I'd rather spend the extra brainpower memorizing syntax and function names in the standard library to minimize my google search time. A good IDE is accessible to me as easily as it is to the pair of you: it comes with keyboard shortcuts AND menus.
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[Quote="Yamikuronue"]No, seriously though, the mouse was invented for a reason
yes it was, For videogames.[/quote]
For driving a GUI. Mouse-oriented videogames came much later.
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Shortcuts don't make anyone a better programmer. But they do allow some people to be more productive
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I don't see why "ability to memorize keyboard shortcuts" makes someone a better programmer
it doesn't.
it's just the way we like to work.
;-)
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configure ViM with the necessary automated tools
It's a fucking text editor. No automated tools are "necessary".
I find it difficult to believe that arsing around spending ages configuring VIM to be an "IDE" is a worthwhile use of time.
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Not for me. Pretty much the only shortcuts I can remember on a daily basis are ctrl-alt-del, Win-L, and Win-R
Win-D also comes in handy from time to time: It's essentially a Minimize All command. (The D is for "show the Desktop", I assume.)
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Five whole things I have to memorize, just to quit!
Quitting is the first thing you learn with vi/vim. To be fair if you press Ctrl + C (my default CLI key press for "Get me the fuck out of here") I think it tells you. Unless I'm thinking of something else.
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Five whole things I have to memorize, just to quit!
One thing, unless you consider your phone number to be ten things?
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I find it difficult to believe that arsing around spending ages configuring VIM to be an "IDE" is a worthwhile use of time.
spending fifteen minutes to install a handfull of tools is "ages"?
.... huh. TIL.
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(The D is for "show the Desktop", I assume.)
Correct. I use that less since Windows 7 and newer has the "Show Desktop" area on the taskbar.
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spending fifteen minutes to install a handfull of tools is "ages"?
Did it take 15 minutes the first time you did it? Without needing to use any external help?
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Did it take 15 minutes the first time you did it?
give or take.
Without needing to use any external help?
well, in so far as i was given a list of plugins and told"here's a list of software, the ones highlighted you need to install the non highlighted ones are optional. hop to it."
yes. beyond that, no.
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Quitting is the first thing you learn with vi/vim. To be fair if you press Ctrl + C (my default CLI key press for "Get me the fuck out of here") I think it tells you. Unless I'm thinking of something else.
Ugh. If I was in a program and CTRL-C killed the program while I was obviously attempting to copy something to the clipboard, I'd be sooooo irritated!
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f I was in a program and CTRL-C killed the program while I was obviously attempting to copy something to the clipboard, I'd be sooooo irritated!
that's a very windows centric viewpoint.
you're not microagressing non-windows operating systems are you?
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you mean like.... say.... ViM?
Well, no, because the post you quoted says:
good
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@Mason_Wheeler said:
f I was in a program and CTRL-C killed the program while I was obviously attempting to copy something to the clipboard, I'd be sooooo irritated!
that's a very
windowsXerox PARC centric viewpoint.you're not microagressing non-
windowsXerox PARC operating systems are you?FTFY ;)
Xerox PARC was the first to use that chord for copy
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Well, no, because the post you quoted says:
ViM is a perfectly good IDE!
/me stomps around in a very overacted temper tantrum
Just because you do not like it does not make it a bad program!
/me continues to perform a farce of a temper tantrum
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give or take.
Fair enough. I guess you're just not using your Vim "IDE" for the same things I use Eclipse (or Netbeans previously) for.
Before you get all defensive, I'm not suggesting that is a bad thing.
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Just because you do not like it does not make it a bad program!
Just because you like it does not make it a good program.
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Fair enough. I guess you're just not using your Vim "IDE" for the same things I use Eclipse (or Netbeans previously) for.
well, yes, i'm using it for all the same things you use Eclipse for, I'm also using it for a lot more things.
there's something to be said for using the same editor for all your text processing.
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there's something to be said for using the same editor for all your text processing
Writing code is not "text processing". Yes, code is made of text, but it's about arranging formal logic and the process for it is very different from the process of writing. (Can anyone imagine trying to write code in Word, for example?)
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Writing code is not "text processing"
correct, however it does require you to type that code somwhere and familiarity with the input program is a bonus as muscle memory is more likely to be correct.
Can anyone imagine trying to write code in Word, for example?)
Just because you can does not mean you should
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Exactly. And conversely, would you even try to write a story in Visual Studio, Eclipse, or any other IDE?
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@Mason_Wheeler said:
Writing code is not "text processing"
correct
I wouldn't be so quick to agree on that. After all, code is text, and you have to process it in some way at some point; to me, that's text processing.Writing code is not "
textword processing"
I agree with completely.
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Exactly. And conversely, would you even try to write a story in Visual Studio, Eclipse, or any other IDE?
what makes you think i use Word?
because i don't.
ViM is my editor and IDE of choice, and it functions phenomenally well for both purposes.
if you don't want to use it, that's fine.
If you hate it, that's fine too
but you do not get to tell me that ViM is not a good Editor and IDE. because that is just plain wrong.
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i'm using it for all the same things you use Eclipse for
So you're saying that I can use Vim, with almost 0 minutes of messing around from the point it's installed and first run, to let me write code complete with syntax highlighting and autocomplete and then compile it upon saving it and then let me run it with a single click or set of key presses?
Can I quickly point Vim to a local or remote installation of Tomcat and have it deploy to that?
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It seems to me to come down to a choice of whether you want to sit through a lengthy install process for a full-size IDE suite, or go through several small installations with a bit of manual fiddling between. And it wouldn't surprise me to find out that both options take roughly the same amount of time.
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I'm not going to promise that you can, but I can
write code
Yes
@loopback0 said:with syntax highlighting
Yes
@loopback0 said:and autocomplete
Yes
@loopback0 said:compile it upon saving
Yes.
@loopback0 said:run it with a single click or set of key presses
Yes.Can I quickly point Vim to a local or remote installation of Tomcat and have it deploy to that?
Hmm... I havent done this yet, but I'm still willing to guarantee it, in 30 minutes or less for the first project and in less than 5 minutes for each subsequent project.
actual deploy time will depend on your exact build process and the size of the pipe between you and the tomcat server.
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whether you want to sit through a lengthy install process for a full-size IDE suite
Eclipse doesn't have a lengthy install process.
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what makes you think i use Word?
because i don't.
ViM is my editor and IDE of choice, and it functions phenomenally well for both purposes.
Admittedly it's been a while since I used ViM, but I seem to recall it was a text editor only, and not a word processor. (ie. no support for text formatting, pagination, line spacing, paragraph indentation, etc. You know, the sort of detail work that's important for writing a story but irrelevant for coding.)
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Hmm... I havent done this yet
Right... so...
you're just not using your Vim "IDE" for the same things I use Eclipse (or Netbeans previously) for.
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text formatting
is important for typesetting, not writingpagination
is important for typesetting, not writing
line spacing,
is important for typesetting, not writingparagraph indentation
is important for typesetting, not writingthe sort of detail work that's important for writing a story
you mean the sort of detail work that is absolutely irrelevant to the act of actually writing a story, but is relevant to the act of typesetting a story?
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no support for text formatting, pagination, line spacing, paragraph indentation
Only one of those is important for storytelling; the other three are just layout details.@RaceProUK said:
whether you want to sit through a lengthy install process for a full-size IDE suite
Eclipse doesn't have a lengthy install process.
Compared to VS, probably not. Compared to Vim though, almost certainly.
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Right... so...
loopback0:
you're just not using your Vim "IDE" for the same things I use Eclipse (or Netbeans previously) for.i have yet to use tomcat as a web application server.
nevertheless i am confident in my guarantee that i'm fully capable of supporting it in my IDE of choice.
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@Mason_Wheeler said:
text formatting
is important for typesetting, not writing
Italics are often used to signify emphasis and stresses in speech; they're also used to separate thoughts from speech and narration.
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Italics are often used to signify emphasis and stresses in speech; they're also used to separate thoughts from speech and narration.
This. Among other things. "Typesetting" is often important to writing.
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@accalia said:
@Mason_Wheeler said:
text formatting
is important for typesetting, not writing
Italics are often used to signify emphasis and stresses in speech; they're also used to separate thoughts from speech and narration.true, but they are not the only literary mechanism that can be employed for such purposes.
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i have yet to use tomcat as a web application server.
So this claim is bullshit.
yes, i'm using it for all the same things you use Eclipse for
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true, but they are not the only literary mechanism that can be employed for such purposes.
But they are among the most widespread and easily understood@RaceProUK said:
Italics are often used to signify emphasis and stresses in speech; they're also used to separate thoughts from speech and narration.
This. Among other things. "Typesetting" is often important to writing.
Not really; stuff like pagination and line spacing has no influence on the semantics of the prose. Typesetting is really more about making the act of reading comfortable.
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@Mason_Wheeler said:
pagination
is important for typesetting, not writing
Brandon Sanderson would probably not agree. His epic fantasy The Way of Kings concerns a world in which the number 10, symmetry, and palindromes all have important magical, religious and cultural significance. The length of the novel is exactly 1001 pages.
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@accalia said:
i have yet to use tomcat as a web application server.
So this claim is bullshit.
yes, i'm using it for all the same things you use Eclipse for
Using Vim, do i:
- Develop applications in various languages ?
- yes
- Have access to tools such as code folding, syntax highlighting and onmicomplete?
- yes
- Have automated code checkers, compilation, and unit/integration testing trigger on file save
- yes
- Compile applications in various languages for deploy on multiple platforms
- yes
- Deploy to multiple local and remote Web Application Servers
- yes
- have integrated source control
- yes
- have integrated project browsing
- yes
- have automatic generation of new project/file using predefined skeletons
- yes
the simple fact that i have not yet worked with one specific web application server (tomcat) is really a nitpick point here, is it not?
really, i expected better of you here.
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really, i expected better of you here.
Words I never thought I'd see on a TDWTF forum ;)
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The length of the novel is exactly 1001 pages.
you know... i'd actually be impressed if he managed to not only make the novel exactly 1001 pages and be a perfect palindrome