True randomness, lottery and super Ai are all very connected. agreed?
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Does anyone actually understand what this thread is about?
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My first post covered it.
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My first post covered it.
i'll accept your premise in your first post in this thread if you accept that it applies equally to yourself.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
Randomness is a lack of information, and complete knowledge removes all randomness.
No, randomness is maximal information. It cannot be losslessly compressed.
@Lorne_Kates said:
With perfect information of every atom, ever quark, every line of force, you'd know exactly how everything would move and act. You could plot out the course of galaxies from birth to death. If you had this information right from the Big Bang, you would know everything that would ever happen in the Universe.
If that were true, then quantum mechanics would be false.
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Does anyone actually understand what this thread is about?
It's what happens when the untrained mind catches a glimpse of the true underlying randomness of the universe.
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a glimpse of the true underlying randomness of the universe
Is that the same thing as the Untempered Schism? Because apparently that's meant to have the same effect.
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Does anyone actually understand what this thread is about?
Does anyone actually care about understanding any thread anywhere, before posting or in it?
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No, randomness is maximal information. It cannot be losslessly compressed.
If you have a bigger computer, then no loss is needed.
If that were true, then quantum mechanics would be false.
Quantum mechanics is just more lack of information being explained as being unexplainable.
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Causality is just a compression method.
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That thumbnail is disturbing...
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Is that the same thing as the Untempered Schism?
It's like Tormented Space in Farscape.
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I... do not know what that is.
*adds Farscape to the list of things she should watch*
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It's really just a writer's gimmick, where someone asked, "now that the Peacekeepers (Farscape bad guys) are in the Uncharted Territories, how do we get across that Moya moves into areas more uncharted than uncharted?" Tormented Space apparently is the same as normal space (it even has trading posts and commerce planets!), except it makes Leviathans go insane over time.
And now it just occurred to me that Star Trek Enterprise totally ripped-off that idea when they did that plot thread about the area of space that made Vulcans go insane. Pfft.
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Sounds like The Warp to me. Does it have any Daemons?
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YES I AM AWARE OF WARHAMMER 40K THANK YOU I GET THE JOKE NOW THIS IS MY REPLY TO IT:
I don't remember any demons the season they were in Tormented Space. The previous season they come across one in Uncharted Space. Some devil-dude who had god-like alien powers, but instead of being inscrutable and mysterious he was hired by some ship building company to destroy Leviathans, because they were eating into their business. It was a pretty crazy episode.
Not a very good one, though. And way too much Stark in it.
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If that were true, then quantum mechanics would be false.
From what I understand, you can deterministically model the universe as a big wave function, but from inside of it we only see one randomly selected "collapsed state" of it.
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I don't remember any demons the season they were in Tormented Space.
@Magus was referring to Warhammer 40,000, not Farscape. The Warp is 40Kโs equivalent to hyperspace, but itโs also the realm that the all-corrupting Chaos (with a capital C) originates in, and Chaos likes to spew forth daemons at its enemies. That, and more than usually insane Space Marines.
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I guess I should have prefaced my post with YES I AM AWARE OF WARHAMMER 40K THANK YOU I GET THE JOKE NOW THIS IS MY REPLY TO IT:
Sorry for neglecting to do so.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
Does anyone actually care about understanding any thread anywhere, before posting or in it?
Some people do, but they are .
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Looks like you lose this round of hyperspace roulette billiards bowling poker!
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If we hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
Chew on this:
Randomness is just lack of information to determine an outcome. You don't know how the coin will flip, because you don't know it's exact physical composition (down to the atom), the exact force used by the flipper (every distribution, ever vector), the exact movement of every molecule of air, the exact pull of gravity on ever atom of the coin, etc.
With perfect information of the flip, and a powerful enough computer, you could say exactly what the flip would end up as.
Randomness is a lack of information, and complete knowledge removes all randomness.
Random events in the Universe aren't random. With perfect information of every atom, ever quark, every line of force, you'd know exactly how everything would move and act. You could plot out the course of galaxies from birth to death. If you had this information right from the Big Bang, you would know everything that would ever happen in the Universe. It isn't randomness, it's lack of information.
Random thoughts aren't random-- if you knew the exact input, the exact state of the brain machine, you could plot the tilted-Plinko board of neurons, and know what the decision someone would make is. The human brain and mind is just a series of chemical reactions and electrical impulses.
So with perfect information, you would know everything that would ever happen in the Universe, and every decision and thought anyone would ever have.
Free will is a lie. There is no random.
Much of this is correct, but it does have one serious flaw. "Perfect information" requires details of all particles, including subatomic, both motion and position, down to the Planck scale. Obtaining information to this level of detail is ruled out by the Heisenberg Principle.
Lacking that detail, chaos theory will prevail, and the coin will, to some degree, be unpredictable--in this universe.
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funny how people seem to think heisenberg principle is a brand new one and planck scale is adding anything to physics. not yet. qubits are still just too theoretical or too unpractical.
free will is a lie, universe is deterministic and yet, there is random chance, choice is real and the tree can fall down if only one thing believes in it. it's just beautiful.
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The stars may not be stars in the bend of the universe telescopes flying out my ear.
Waterfalls move upward its giant wonder juggernaught.
[spoiler]Look, look! I can do the completely incomprehensible gibberish thing too![/spoiler]
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the area of space that made Vulcans go insane.
: it wasn't space itself that did it, it was the shielding ships used in that area of space to protect from spacial anomalies that would ruin your day.
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No quack.
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Who left the door to Lorne's room open again.
We know its you http://www.stilldrinking.org/shut-up-about-the-universe
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So sorry, I momentarily forgot I was posting on a forum where everybody already knows everything.
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you can deterministically model the universe as a big wave function
In principle you could model the entire universe as a wave function, but such a model - like any wave function - would yield only probability amplitudes for the various alternative outcome states. It wouldn't make you Laplace's Demon. Laplace's Bookie, maybe.
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it wasn't space itself that did it, it was the shielding ships used in that area of space to protect from spacial anomalies that would ruin your day.
I hope you felt bad while typing that.
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I hope you felt bad while typing that.
Well no, but I do now because you didn't get all whaargarbl over it.
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Usually I'm the one who remembers really stupid irrelevant details about really godawful movies and TV shows. But Enterprise was so boring than even I could not pay that much attention to it.
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I was rewatching it late last year because I thought I'd missed a lot of it. Turns out I'd seen most of the first three seasons.
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I'm the guy who defends the "unobtanium" line in Avatar. He's OBVIOUSLY not saying it's LITERALLY named "unbtanium!" He's just using the well-known goofy fake name to emphasize how rare it is! It's a case of the script being TOO clever, and assuming the audience would get the joke, and it sailed over the heads of even a lot of sci-fi fans who should have known better!!!
Ahem.
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I feel bad all the time. That's why I keep a cat.
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I feel bad all the time. That's
whybecause I keep a cat.Yeah, the unobtanium reactions were pretty funny.
I think I watched all of Enterprise when it was on, but I'm not really sure why.
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I think I watched all of Enterprise when it was on, but I'm not really sure why.
It got entertaining in the last season.
Not good, mind. But entertaining. The first 2 seasons were the same crappy "spacial anomaly of the week" episodes we'd been seeing in Next Gen and Voyager for years, and they weren't even as good as the Voyager ones. The third season got slightly interesting with the continuing story. Then they just went nuts and filmed whatever for the fourth season.
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Obtaining information to this level of detail is ruled out by the Heisenberg Principle.
Uncertainty is just lack of information. Your excuse is just an excuse.
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Usually I'm the one who remembers really stupid irrelevant details about really godawful movies and TV shows. But Enterprise was so boring than even I could not pay that much attention to it.
That's the one that was just Riker masturbating in the holodeck, right?
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I'm the guy who defends the "unobtanium" line in Avatar.
Oh my god I thought I knew you from somewhere!
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@blakeyrat said:
I'm the guy who defends the "unobtanium" line in Avatar.
Oh my god I thought I knew you from somewhere!
He did a nation-wide tour while it was in the theaters. Every day, eight times a day, in the lobby. Explaining, defending, then back on the bus. Town to town, state to state. A long, arduous, hard life-- but he wasn't in it for himself. It was for the line-- so people would understand.
He did get a small career boost when the movie got a limited re-release. He even worked up some new material, but all people really wanted to hear was his defense of the line. Eventually he just gave up, and gave the audience what they expected of him. What he'd become.
He faded away after the movie hit home release. He was going to cut a deal with Best Buy for an in-store tour, but digital sales and illegal downloads cut so deep into that market that it never came to be.
But at least-- for the honor if not for the money-- there will always be forums. He lives on.