Magic pronouns considered harmful
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Not future-proof-ey enough. Use a GUID index reference.
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3f2edcbc-762e-407d-a711-977da96e59dd it is. And 54defe08-abf2-4c36-8a05-0579a8151822 for possesive.
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Why?
Because it's like the Ribbon. QED.
Changing a plural word to also mean "unspecified singular" just rubs me wrong. I would almost rather use a new word, although I think those are lame too.
There's nothing wrong with neuter-gender "he".
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You're either "wrong" on quantity or gender.
That's why I just use he unapologetically, as has been done in a non-misogynistic way for longer than I've been alive.
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3f2edcbc-762e-407d-a711-977da96e59dd it is. And 54defe08-abf2-4c36-8a05-0579a8151822 for possesive.
Can we get emojis for those, because I'm never going to remember them.
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There's nothing wrong with neuter-gender "he".
It can still be confusing. When you say or write "he", I can't tell if you are referring to someone identified as male or of unspecified gender.
"'he'? So it was a man?"
"I don't know if he was a man or a woman."
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When you say or write "he", I can't tell if you are referring to someone identified as male or of unspecified gender.
If it can't be inferred from context it's probably not germane.
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If it can't be inferred from context it's probably not germane.
I might be under the impression that you're definitively implying gender by using a gendered pronoun... which can also be genderless... so then you wouldn't be implying anything... but if you are using to indicate gender then it can be inferred...
Seems like poor use of language to me.
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Aren't you glad we don't use a language that assigns gender to every noun-ish thing?
That car's a guy, this boat's a girl. Depending on what hour it is, those times might be somewhat both...
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I might be under the impression that you're definitively implying gender by using a gendered pronoun
It's not my fault or problem if you don't know how the language works.
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It's not my fault or problem if you don't know how the language works.
How does it work? How do I distinguish between the male "he" and the gender-neutral "he"?
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How does it work? How do I distinguish between the male "he" and the gender-neutral "he"?
If you can tell from context, you'll know. If you can't, it probably doesn't matter. I think I said that already.
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If you can tell from context, you'll know. If you can't, it probably doesn't matter. I think I said that already.
I wouldn't define that as the way a language "works". I would call it a language not working.
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English is full of ambiguities
It's a Germanic language with heavy Latin and Romance influences, and a bit of Greek just to spice things up.
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So is German - yet they managed to make their language very strict.
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Gone are the days when everyone spoke Math, and there was none of this "influence". Everything was explicit and strict, and when an object stated something it certainly meant it exactly as it was ouput!
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+ Si
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German has heavy Romance influences? Since when?
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And while English speakers fight about whether to use "they" or not for singular unknown gender, I don't even have a choice in my native tongue...
We default to "he" as well. Which means that me using "they" when using English actually involves conscious effort of not following my established language patterns.
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German has heavy Romance influences? Since when?
...Shit, it's not oneboxing. @discoursebot
Adjective
RomanceOf or dealing with languages or cultures derived from Roman influence and Latin: Italian, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Romanian, Catalan, Occitan, Corsican, etc.
If you're trying to tell me there are no French words in German, then your brain is kaputt.
We default to "he" as well.
But in Slavic languages it makes much more sense, because most words referring to someone or something undefined are masculine, and English doesn't have grammatic genders at all.
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If you're trying to tell me there are no French words in German, then your brain is kaputt.
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But in Slavic languages it makes much more sense, because most words referring to someone or something undefined are masculine, and English doesn't have grammatic genders at all.
You mean undefined or non-living? Because Croatian uses all three genders for non-living things as well. I'm pretty sure this is universal in Slavic languages, is it not?
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What? Loan words don't count as language influence?
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Does the base language change? No. So no, loanwords aren't an influence.
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I don't want to have another argument about meaning of words, so I'll just say that it's highly unlikely German wasn't influenced by French language, considering that (1) it was the "international language" of 18th century, (2) German country was part of Frankish empire and originally ruled by Frankish dynasty, (3) there was free trade and free roam around Europe until 19th/20th century (not sure), (4) German language was only standarized in Prussian times. Basically, French and Latin languages were giant influence on every European language.
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From now on, when referring to @RaceProUK, I'll use "zee" and "xir" pronouns. Better to be on safe side and not assume any of 78 genders, even if zee explicitly states which one zee identifies with - who knows what it will be tomorrow?
If you used the pronouns she's specifically asked you to, you would come across as much less of a dick.
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You want to know the weird thing? If you had led with that argument, then there wouldn't have been a problem!
Thing is, it's also true that English has been influenced a helluva lot more than German, thanks to the Norman invasion of 1066; the Romance-derived Norman tongue mixed with the Germanic Saxon language, leading to the hybrid we have today.
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This hate-think against bugs triggers me.
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If you used the pronouns she's specifically asked you to, you would come across as much less of a dick.
Flagged for missing the joke at 54defe08-abf2-4c36-8a05-0579a8151822 expense.
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That's why I just use he unapologetically, as has been done in a non-misogynistic way for longer than I've been alive.
Bah. You are merely a... wait a second while I look up the approved phrase... ah yes, there it is: luddite moron with an ossified brain.
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And then he called her woman, for God so graciously took her out of man.
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If you used the pronouns she's specifically asked you to, you would come across as much less of a dick.
From Wikipedia:
Caitlyn Jenner
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Bruce Jenner)
Jenner came to international attention when, while identifying as a man, she won the gold medal in the decathlon at the 1976 Summer Olympics held in Montreal.º_O
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so I'll just say that it's highly unlikely German wasn't influenced by French language
I don't speak either. Does anyone have any examples of such influence?
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You want to know the weird thing? If you had led with that argument, then there wouldn't have been a problem!
The thing is, I thought my whole life that loan words are the very definition of language influence, and I went with the more obvious argument.I don't speak either. Does anyone have any examples of such influence?
I can't provide an example because, by 54defe08-abf2-4c36-8a05-0579a8151822 definition, loan words don't count - it must be deeply ingrained in language's grammar to be considered an influence, and I don't have a doctorate-worth knowledge about German language history, so I can't tell which core parts of language are German proper and which are western influences.
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I disagree that doing somebody the courtesy of recounting their history in the light of new information they've chosen to reveal about their gender identity is in any way Orwellian.
Further, it seems to me that the use of scare quotes around "fathering" is unproblematic. After all, fathering in the biological sense takes mere moments, while parenting runs for years. Given that the parent in question had been spending much of that time consciously maintaining a performance or appearance of a fatherhood that she didn't feel was reflective of who she actually was, describing that parenting experience as "fathering" with scare quotes in order to highlight its performative aspect looks completely reasonable.
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I disagree that doing somebody the courtesy of recounting their history in the light of new information they've chosen to reveal about their gender identity is in any way Orwellian.
I can't stop chuckling every time I read this.
Further, it seems to me that the use of scare quotes around "fathering" is unproblematic. After all, fathering in the biological sense takes mere moments, while parenting runs for years.
This is one of those, "Accurate, but three Pinocchios" sort of situations, then?
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Sorry, completely not following your line of thought here.
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Sorry, completely not following your line of thought here.
There are self styled "fact checker" journalists who like to rate stories with Pinocchios, like you would a movie with stars. The more Pinocchios, the bigger the lie / falsehood / whatever. They've been known to look at some claim and say that the claim is accurate, but ignores certain other factors, so they'll give it some Pinocchios.
It's like the opposite of the stupid Fake But Accurate thing that Dan Rather pioneered.
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In Poland, we have this fellow currently named Anna Grodzka, formerly named Krzysztof Bęgowski, who changed xir gender over twenty years after marrying a woman (with whom zee had a son) - coincidentally, just before zee became a member of one Polish party (the "allow gay marriages, allow weed, allow that was wrong 30 years ago, excile the Church from Polish land" kind of party) and being elected to the parliament. Of course, xir political career goes as far back as the 70s - on the soviet government's side.
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Yeah I get that, but what is it that are you saying calls for Pinocchios?
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xir
zee
I know you're making a point to do this, and I accept that English is not a perfect language when it comes to dealing with this tangle, but please please stop using those words! Dear
$DEITY
, they're awful…
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this fellow currently named Anna Grodzka, formerly named Krzysztof Bęgowski, who changed xir gender
And again, here's somebody who has clearly expressed a preference for being considered a woman; and again, for you to describe her as a "fellow" and make a show of avoiding the use of the pronoun "her" makes you come across as a bit of a dick.
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I know you're making a point to do this, and I accept that English is not a perfect language when it comes to dealing with this tangle, but please please stop using those words! Dear $DEITY, they're awful…
You know what else is awful? Xir face.
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And again, here's somebody who has clearly expressed a preference for being considered a woman
...after half of century of being okay with being a man...and again, for you to describe her as a "fellow" and make a show of avoiding the use of the pronoun "her" makes you come across as a bit of a dick.
That's because I hate everyone related to the government of previous Polish regime - especially if they deny it, because then they're not just communist but also disloyal scums.
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So someone fell out of the Ugly Tree. It still doesn't justify doing that much violence to the language.
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So someone fell out of the Ugly Tree.
He didn't look that bad before becoming she.People change
Especially if they can win a publicly funded stool to sit on if they do.
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He didn't look that bad before becoming she.
Standards of beauty for the different genders are different. This is unfair. :)