The Official Status Thread

A library to implement it that works and is compatible with Visual Studio's licensing. (Is there one? Anywhere?)
All kinds of new UI to do key management that doesn't exist in TFS, SVN, or any of the other protocols they deal with

Not to mention HTTPS works perfectly fine if your admin isn't an idiot who buys Atlassian products.

boomzilla

@blakeyrat said:

A library to implement it that works and is compatible with Visual Studio's licensing. (Is there one? Anywhere?)

It's true, TRWTF is that Windows doesn't ssh.

RaceProUK

@blakeyrat said:

A library to implement it that works and is compatible with Visual Studio's licensing

If it wasn't for Heartbleed, I'd say OpenSSH. It's BSD licensed, so MS could easily incorporate it into VS without a license clash.

accalia

for the record. you can use VS git with SSH, you just need to create the local repo first (upstream is optional remember) then add upstream yourself via git command line (through gitbash or cygwin).

VS Git will still understand the repo and manage it, it just can't do push/pull (those will error), so you have to use the command line for that. but VS GIT will do everything else.

Bonus for using that approach is that you also gain access to things like stash that VS GIT doesn't support but understands the data structures for (even if it can't do anything with them)

aliceif

OPENSSL IS NOT OPENSSH

aliceif

Just like SecureSHell is not Secure Sockets Layer.

JazzyJosh

@accalia said:

for the record. you can use VS git with SSH, you just need to crate the local repo first (upstream is optional remember) then add upstream yourself via git command line (through gitbash or cygwin).

Still a

@accalia said:

VS Git will still understand the repo and manage it, it just can't do push/pull (those will error), so you have to use the command line for that. but VS GIT will do everything else.

Then what use is it for him at all? No reason to piss him off by providing cli workarounds when you know he isn't going to use the command line for his repo management.

aliceif

BTW, Microsoft have a perfectly fine implementation of Secure Sockets Layer called Schannel.

RaceProUK

@aliceif said:

OPENSSL IS NOT OPENSSH

But OpenSSH uses OpenSSL, does it not?
*checks*
Oh.

RaceProUK

@accalia said:

it just can't do push/pull (those will error), so you have to use the command line for that

Not TortoiseGit?

@accalia said:

you just need to crate the local repo first

loopback0

@JazzyJosh said:

Related status: Paid off car loan today :3

I might use my bonus to pay the remainder of mine off. I might not.

accalia

@JazzyJosh said:

Still a

Not going to disagree there. it is a WTF

@JazzyJosh said:

Then what use is it for him at all?

to blakey? dunno. sure he's probably not going to use it, but maybe someone else is reading that will or maybe blakey will give it a try to see if it improves matters. I like to believe the positive in people.

@RaceProUK said:

Not TortoiseGit?

ICK! if you like that piece of "software" then be my guest..... otherswise.... ICK!

@RaceProUK said:

frack. and i tried to make sure i had no spellar and gramming errors there!

NedFodder

@accalia said:

I like to believe the positive in people.

TRWTF

RaceProUK

@accalia said:

ICK! if you like that piece of "software" then be my guest..... otherswise.... ICK!

I use it. I don't like it, but I use it.
TortoiseHg and TortoiseSVN are genuinely good though. So why is TortoiseGit so poor?

@accalia said:

frack. and i tried to make sure i had no spellar and gramming errors there!

*sigh*
@accalia said:

otherswise

Oh, and
@accalia said:

I like to believe the positive in people.

you accidentally a word too

accalia

@RaceProUK said:

TortoiseHg and TortoiseSVN are genuinely good though. So why is TortoiseGit so poor?

the world may never know.....

@RaceProUK said:

you accidentally a word too

oh hush you. i'm not giving you a spellar flag for pointing out errors in my posts. It would be quicker to enumerate my posts that don't contain a spellar or gramming error than it would be to enumerate the ones that do.

flwf

Found out today that they're going to be cramming a couple hundred more people into our building which will mean doubling up in offices... makes the cubicles seem like heaven in comparison, even with the "open space concept".

RaceProUK

@accalia said:

It would be quicker to enumerate my posts that don't contain a spellar or gramming error

It would.
Here's the list:

Was that a bit too mean?

accalia

@RaceProUK said:

Was that a bit too mean?

I believe you missed this post.

blakeyrat

@boomzilla said:

It's true, TRWTF is that Windows doesn't ssh.

Why? There are two "common" (scare-quotes definitely required) protocols that use SSH, SFTP and Git.

Of those, SFTP clients just fucking work without needing to do all the CLI key exchange bullshit. How it's possible for them to do it and not Git, I have no idea-- oh wait I bet it is possible, Git just hates its users. (For the record, Microsoft's encryption technology, like used in RDP, also just does the encryption stuff automatically without bothering the user about it. Since there are Linux RDP clients, I can only assume there's nothing stopping Git from using that technology except-- oh we're back to "hates its users.")

Anyway does that sound like something that belongs in the OS? No. It's only useful to uber-nerds. And even then, it's only a PITA for one particular product. A product in which EVERYTHING is a PITA. A product where they don't show even the SLIGHTEST empathy with users by, say, putting the key files in a folder that they can get to from a top-level Explorer favorite, or maybe adding a file extension to the file so you can just double-click it to open it.

@RaceProUK said:

If it wasn't for Heartbleed, I'd say OpenSSH. It's BSD licensed, so MS could easily incorporate it into VS without a license clash.

I'm sure the tremendous quality of open source security software is also a consideration for Microsoft. They get enough shit for their own stuff, they don't want to be responsible for some other idiot's.

@accalia said:

for the record. you can use VS git with SSH, you just need to create the local repo first (upstream is optional remember) then add upstream yourself via git command line (through gitbash or cygwin).

Do you have directions a moron can follow?

@accalia said:

VS Git will still understand the repo and manage it, it just can't do push/pull (those will error), so you have to use the command line for that.

Oh. So when you said, "you can use" what you meant was "you can't use". Or perhaps, "you can use but the thing you use most is broken." Gotcha. The difficulty I have is assuming people aren't idiots right away.

Guess what: I already did know that little bit of trivia.

@RaceProUK said:

So why is TortoiseGit so poor?

I know I've told this story before, but last time I tried to install TortoiseGit it downloaded some kind of package manager which downloaded 500 MB of bullshit from somewhere for some purpose, which then opened a CLI, which then showed an obscure error message. I was down like an hour and 500 MB of disk space and still didn't have a working Git install.

(For the record, Git's like 20 MB, max.)

RaceProUK

@blakeyrat said:

I'm sure the tremendous quality of open source security software is also a consideration for Microsoft. They get enough shit for their own stuff, they don't want to be responsible for some other idiot's.

You'd be surprised just how much open source code has made its way into Windows and other MS products over the years…
@blakeyrat said:

I know I've told this story before, but last time I tried to install TortoiseGit it downloaded some kind of package manager which downloaded 500 MB of bullshit from somewhere for some purpose, which then opened a CLI, which then showed an obscure error message. I was down like an hour and 500 MB of disk space and still didn't have a working Git install.

I've installed it on three machines; on all three, it took a minute or two, I saw no command windows, and I had a fully-working git install afterwards.
But then I did download from the official site; no idea where you got your download from.

blakeyrat

@RaceProUK said:

But then I did download from the official site; no idea where you got your download from.

That was another WTF. The product "TortoiseGit" didn't include a Git client. You had to download one separately. ("mgit"? I don't remember anymore.) It's been ages, so I don't remember which installer did the broken shit, I guess it could have been either.

Point is, it was a piece of broken garbage bullshit.

EDIT: I'm kind of glad I never got it working, or I'd be blinded by windows like this one:

Jesus, guys. WTF is that.

accalia

@blakeyrat said:

Do you have directions a moron can follow?

@blakeyrat said:

Oh. So when you said, "you can use" what you meant was "you can't use". Or perhaps, "you can use but the thing you use most is broken." Gotcha. The difficulty I have is assuming people aren't idiots right away.

Guess what: I already did know that little bit of trivia.

I apologize, I was unaware that you were already aware of the facts that I presented. I will make a note that my telepathy module is once again broken and take that into the shop to get repaired with all speed.

In the mean time I must sincerely apologize for attempting to offer relevant information that you were already aware of but that I was not aware that you already knew. It was not my intent to give you information that you already had.

Thank you and have a fluffy day.

aliceif

tl;dr

cartman82

@blakeyrat said:

I know I've told this story before, but last time I tried to install TortoiseGit it downloaded some kind of package manager which downloaded 500 MB of bullshit from somewhere for some purpose, which then opened a CLI, which then showed an obscure error message. I was down like an hour and 500 MB of disk space and still didn't have a working Git install.

(For the record, Git's like 20 MB, max.)

Can't relate. I'm using TortoiseGIT on windows. It's a pain to set up (with the recommended putty keys solution), but once installed, it works pretty reliably and seem to have everything I need.

Of course, if you need more, you can always just download cmder and do things from command line, like a man.

RaceProUK

@blakeyrat said:

The product "TortoiseGit" didn't include a Git client

…TortoiseGit is a git client…

blakeyrat

@accalia said:

I apologize, I was unaware that you were already aware of the facts that I presented.

No. That's not the problem.

The problem is you said I could make it work when you knew VERY FUCKING WELL that it could not be made to work. How do I know you knew this? Because you SAID SO IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH.

I hate liars. You are a liar. You lied to me. Don't do that.

blakeyrat

@RaceProUK said:

…TortoiseGit is a git client…

You'd think so. But no, when I downloaded it, it was not.

aliceif

Thanks for your mail. I am currently out of office and available again on 2/13/2015 11:59:00 PM. Please note that your message will not be forwarded automatically. Kind Regards (Name Redacted)

Automated absence replies are weird.

RaceProUK

@blakeyrat said:

You'd think so. But no, when I downloaded it, it was not.

Then you downloaded the wrong thing.

…and now to wait for the inevitable …

blakeyrat

@RaceProUK said:

Then you downloaded the wrong thing.

I guarantee I did not.

I concede it's possible that has been fixed by now.

VinDuv

@RaceProUK said:

…TortoiseGit is a git client…

It’s a git client, meaning that it executes the git command with various parameters to perform the required actions. But it’s not a Git client because it’s not directly working on Git repositories

accalia

@blakeyrat said:

The problem is you said I could make it work when you knew VERY FUCKING WELL that it could not be made to work. How do I know you knew this? Because you SAID SO IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH.

I see we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

While i'll freely admit that my solution was at best a workaround that by its very nature was sub-optimal, it is a serviceable workaround for many workflows.

I'l even freely admit that the workaround may not be an acceptable one to you but that does not mean that it would be unacceptable to everyone who is trying to work on GIT using Visual Studio.

I can also see that i'm going to have to refrain from attempting to be politely helpful to you in future.

Good day sir, Have a lovely day.

RaceProUK

@blakeyrat said:

I guarantee I did not.

I… think I'll just leave this here:

boomzilla

@blakeyrat said:

Why? There are two "common" (scare-quotes definitely required) protocols that use SSH, SFTP and Git.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Personally, I don't care about git, but having sftp and ssh is super useful.

@blakeyrat said:

No. It's only useful to uber-nerds

Or, like, developers and sysadmins who have mixed environments. Whatever subhuman (did I do that right, @another_sam) you want to use, MS is TRWTF for not including it.

blakeyrat

@accalia said:

I see we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

No sane person would agree that a Git repo you can't push or pull counts as "working".

@accalia said:

I can also see that i'm going to have to refrain from attempting to be politely helpful to you in future.

How did your post help me? Other than making me angry and wasting my time? I'd love to hear an explanation of what help I have received here.

blakeyrat

@boomzilla said:

I'm not sure what your point is here.

My point is, I'm a computer programmer and a Windows interface for SSH would be useful for exactly one program I've ever encountered in my life. Git.

Does that sound like something that should be high on Microsoft's priority list?

@boomzilla said:

Personally, I don't care about git, but having sftp and ssh is super useful.

I can't speak for SSH because I've never used it and never had reason to use it, but SFTP doesn't require support from Windows. It just fucking magically works on its own.

@boomzilla said:

Or, like, developers and sysadmins who have mixed environments. Whatever subhuman (did I do that right, @another_sam) you want to use, MS is TRWTF for not including it.

Well throw in the kitchen sink then.

JazzyJosh

I mean, you may not have realized it but you were instigating him by providing information that directly contradicted how you knew he used git with VS. I personally would rather learn to use the command line as well, but since it's been determined that Blakey doesn't want to bother with it you shouldn't have replied to his post with a solution that doesn't work for his workflow especially without noting it as such.

Don't say you're being politely helpful when your post is directly antagonizing.

blakeyrat

@JazzyJosh said:

Don't say you're being politely helpful when your post is directly antagonizing.

Thank you. There are sane people on these forums still.

boomzilla

@blakeyrat said:

My point is, I'm a computer programmer and a Windows interface for SSH would be useful for exactly one program I've ever encountered in my life. Git.

I have no shits to give. I'm sure you use stuff that I have no use for. The world is a funny place like that. Of course, perhaps you just didn't know it would be useful because it wasn't there and you didn't know any better. On this particular thing, I know better and have often lamented its lack in times and places where it would have been incredibly helpful to have.

@blakeyrat said:

Does that sound like something that should be high on Microsoft's priority list?

I already said, effectively, "Yes." I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

JazzyJosh

Even more of a WTF is that it isn't included in

Windows Services for UNIX - Wikipedia

RaceProUK

@JazzyJosh said:

Don't say you're being politely helpful when your post is directly antagonizing.

Let's be fair, I'd be surprised if there was actual intent to antagonise.

Anyway, let's not keep this going; it's not doing anyone any favours.

HardwareGeek

@aliceif said:

Automated absence replies are weird.

Especially when they are sent to a world-wide mailing list, in a language other than the one used on the list. German guy on the Netbeans list, I'm looking at you.

blakeyrat

@RaceProUK said:

Let's be fair, I'd be surprised if there was actual intent to antagonise.

She's not stupid.