I think we made @CodingHorror mad
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Big companies have lots of lawyers on hand for that stuff, and probably would argue that they only do a session cookie until you log in or register, where you end up giving consent for all other cookies, or something like that.
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Taken from my blabbing over on the other site,
https://econsultancy.com/blog/10208-as-european-commission-sues-five-countries-is-the-cookie-law-starting-to-crumble
Granted this looks like they are losing, but do you as a small business owner want to be sued by a government for being out of compliance?
I don't know the actual laws name, so this is what came up for EU cookie law lawsuit. Give me an official name for it and I can probably find you a lawsuit against individual corporations.
It's about risk of being out of compliance vs risk of compliance. If it's worth it to you to be out of compliance and risk a lawsuit instead of putting an informational page up, great. But the OP has indicated they want to be in compliance.
and
"But again, each company must assess their risk before implementing anything. It's not for us to decide what their risk of exposure is."
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Possibly. As I said, I saw it as a popup bar thing all over the place so I instinctively looked for that. IANAL but I guess a link is fine in any case. I doubt the law specifies it has to be contained in a floating <div>.
Please don't use "IANAL" in a comment involving Apple.
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I have to ask, what constitutes complying? Is it just telling people "hey, we use cookies"
Yes.
and what they're used for, or is it something more in-depth?
Duh. What's a cookie?In essence, to 'comply' with this directive, no depth required.
Pedantic dickweedery is getting rampant here. Everyone gunning for a badge?
If it starts working ,then bronzes will be going back up to 5 flags.
@PJH
We already have 3. Reminds me - I need to award 2 of them for a recent bug that was fixed...Can I just have a badge that says 'I find bugs' lol
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@ChaosTheEternal said:
and what they're used for, or is it something more in-depth?
Duh. What's a cookie?In the context of the site. Why the site is using cookies and for what.
I didn't think I had to explain that was what I meant.
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It's actually insufficient. You're not allowed to set any cookies (except session) before the visitor explicitly agrees
Obvious solution: accessing a website brings up a browser-modal box that says "this browser supports cookies because they're not a bad thing" and the options are "ok" and "uninstall all browsers that support cookies".
I would later add a third button labeled "eject all politicians that make decisions about things they don't have an iota that lives down the street from a clue about the meaning of from the planet". It would be nonfunctional but it would bring up a browser-modal-modal box that says "we didn't implement this yet but we might at some point in the future so we added the button anyway."
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In the context of the site. Why the site is using cookies and for what.
I didn't think I had to explain that was what I meant.
Do I have to drag out badges at this time of night? The context was the quote before, which you omitted:
Site: Hey buddy, we use cookies, want one? We have to ask you because of EU directive. And fluffy unicorn shit and hens teeth.
User: Yeah, sure!
[... site browsing passes. 1day-3 years ..]
User: By the way,
User: ... erm, what's a cookie?
Site: Squirrel!Over there ~~~>
By the way, have an Amazon advert for squirrels...
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INAL, but I think, just as in VAT and sales tax collection you'd need to prove a physical nexus exists for it to apply. If I run a web store w/ a server in the US and sell to you in the UK, you'd be responsible for the VAT and tariffs as I don't have a nexus in the UK.
While it's possible for a site outside the EU to sell to European consumers, they then end up having to deal with shitty import regulations. Having done that once or twice (ALL MY HATE!), the customers rapidly decide that within-EU is much easier, and let some company handle the import shit.
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The physical nexus rule is (AFAIK) how taxes are done in the US, but it is not used in the EU. If I, from the Netherlands, buy something at amazon, who doesn't have a presence in the Netherlands, I still have to pay dutch VAT, and either amazon will do that for me, or it's applied during import. Don't recall which, it's been a while.
The same applies to other regulations: If you're serving Dutch customers, you're expected to follow Dutch law in doing so. If you refuse that, the judge will typically instruct you to block all Dutch IP addresses from your site. That actually happened in the Pirate Bay case - the ISP-level block didn't come into it until the Pirate Bay decided not to apply the block.
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While it's possible for a site outside the EU to sell to European consumers, they then end up having to deal with shitty import regulations. Having done that once or twice (ALL MY HATE!), the customers rapidly decide that within-EU is much easier, and let some company handle the import shit.
I've bought things from outside the EU and I've never run into any kind of trouble.
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What happens when you're selling non-physical goods like software?
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What happens when you're selling non-physical goods like software?
Nothing much. Officially, you're supposed to charge VAT, and then pay it, but so far I found exactly one company that does this (they also charge you $6 for the privilege of charging you EU VAT).
Whenever possible, I buy my electronic copies of software through non-EU stores, precisely to avoid paying VAT.
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While it's possible for a site outside the EU to sell to European consumers, they then end up having to deal with shitty import regulations.
If for example my company sends product to someone in Canada, we actually send it to a "customs holding station" whatever they're called. The customer has to go to the station pay all tariffs, fees, and taxes or Canadian customs holds the product. That arrangement is specified in the bill of sale. You pay the bill of sale, we ship to Canada and if there are issues w/ customs, that's on you. Disagreeing w/ tariffs, fees, or sales tax as presented by Canadian customs, isn't acceptable as a reason w/ the credit card companies for trying to reverse charges. We've been paid.
And yes, having spelled that out, most Canadians decide "That's too much flipping hassle, eh!", and the sale doesn't happen.
, or it's applied during import. Don't recall which, it's been a while.
The same applies to other regulations: If you're serving Dutch customers, you're expected to follow Dutch law in doing so.
IIRC - there was some attempt to enforce that sort of thing on a US company and the courts decided that since the server was in the US and the services were therefore contracted in the US the other country (can't remember which one) was told to "go fuck themselves" by the court in very polite legal terms. (CBA to find a reference, may be apocryphal...)
I think the idea was if, for example: a country had a "no drinking on sunday" law and a visitor from that country came here that country could not require this country to enforce that law.Of course since y'all were sniffing glue and signed the EU treaties—that means you're boned. Your countries gave up their rights to sovereignty and self determination—Heil Barroso!
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I've bought things from outside the EU and I've never run into any kind of trouble.
It depends. I've bought books from the US and that was OK (because in the UK I wouldn't pay tax on them anyway; other EU countries have different lists of what is zero-rated, but stuff is only assessed for VAT once) but I've also bought clothing from the US and had to pay tax on that which was very painful.
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IIRC - there was some attempt to enforce that sort of thing on a US company and the courts decided that since the server was in the US and the services were therefore contracted in the US the other country (can't remember which one) was told to "go fuck themselves" by the court in very polite legal terms. (CBA to find a reference, may be apocryphal...)
The details matter. If you're not even claiming that you're an EU company of some description, we're dealing with import of services, which is a complicated area, but essentially puts much of the onus on the customer to deal with their regulations. If you are claiming that you're an EU company (and many conglomerates do so) then you've got to follow the regs, at least in regard to things that the customer sees. (You can then subcontract the delivery of the services to someone else, such as the US mothership website team, but you can't discharge responsibility that way.)
@M_Adams said:I think the idea was if, for example: a country had a "no drinking on sunday" law and a visitor from that country came here that country could not require this country to enforce that law.
That's different, because the customer would be physically present in the US in that case. (And you guys are the ones with odd drinking laws these days. By the by.)
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The details matter…
Agreed, ( can't find the reference in the googles… can find grumpy cat 'tho…) in the case I vaguely referenced, I believe the company in question wasn't registered in any country other than the US; and the other country was "over reaching" their jurisdiction. But otherwise, what you said.
(And you guys are the ones with odd drinking laws these days.
These days‽ Try since the 1920's :). Just part-and-parcel of our insane drive toward the ultimate nanny-state.
For example: Large "Costume Does Not Enable Flight" tags on Superman outfitsmmm... not sure if it's a requirement or a sad commentary on our tort system.
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Pedantic dickweedery is getting rampant here. Everyone gunning for a badge?
I'm not, but if it happens I'm OK with it.
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we didn't implement this yet but we might at some point in the future so we added the button anyway
Sounds like that 'Download archive of my posts' button in Discourse.
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Is that why some sites hosted in the UK that I go to have that "This site uses cookies" popup/notificaton all of a sudden? I always wondered why I was getting those annoying messages.
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Is that why some sites hosted in the UK that I go to have that "This site uses cookies" popup/notificaton all of a sudden?
Yes.
Related: http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last/
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I would later add a third button labeled "eject all politicians that make decisions about things they don't have an iota that lives down the street from a clue about the meaning of from the planet". It would be nonfunctional but it would bring up a browser-modal-modal box that says "we didn't implement this yet but we might at some point in the future so we added the button anyway."
I see you've used Discourse before.
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a sad commentary on our tort system.
Remember, the only torts that belong on the Good Ideas Thread are Sacher Tortes.
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Isn't tortar sauce what you put on fish?
