TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML)
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@boomzilla
In particular, I notice on that page how the elevation drawing fails to show its foundations. I don't know if they'd still be called "piles" if they're horizontal, but I'd want them to go further back into that rock than where the mini is parked in the photo.I'm reminded of a house Iain Banks described in one of his novels. It was cantilevered out from the top of a cliff over a forest, I think about a hundred metres up; the lowest floor had an indoor swimming pool with a glass bottom.
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@boomzilla So the video is unrelated.
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@boomzilla Also, LOL.
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@boomzilla So the video is unrelated.
It's relevant! After the end of the article!
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TIL the woman who was the inspiration for Kelly McGillis' character in Top Gun went on to hold the highest ever rank for a woman in the Pentagon.
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@topspin said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@pie_flavor said in 😻 The Emergency Cute Things Thread:
Sleepy venomous quack puppy
TIL platypuses are venomous.
Also, apparently this dude who looks like a cartoon character who lost his glasses.Days ago, researchers learned they're also fluorescent under UV light.
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Days ago, researchers learned they're also fluorescent under UV light.
That's the sort of thing that can lead to an Ignobel…
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TIL movie trailers are called that because originally, cinemas would play them after movies rather than before them as they do today.
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TIL all navel oranges are descended from a single mutant tree in a monastery in Bahia, Brazil, about 1870. Also, TIL the word for the fruit, in some form (e.g., Sanskrit nāraṅga, Arabic nāranj, Anglo-Norman orenge, and Middle English orange) long predates the word for the color. The word for the fruit was in Middle English by the 13th century, but the first use of the word in English to describe the color was not until 1502; prior to that shades of orange were called (in Old English) the equivalent of yellow-red or yellow-saffron.
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@HardwareGeek said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
prior to that shades of orange were called (in Old English) the equivalent of yellow-red or yellow-saffron.
Hence the number of things traditionally described in English as red/yellow/gold when they are quite clearly orange.
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@Watson Such as red hair?
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@Mason_Wheeler Funnily enough, Czech has a special word for the color of ‘red’ hair which is different from either red or orange and rarely used except when talking about hair or fur.
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@Bulb kind of like "ginger" in English, except it's also used for something else that has barely any link with the colour. I've never seen any form of ginger-the-spice that looks anywhere near ginger-the-colour (insert Geri Halliwell reference here). No idea how the two came to be linked, btw?
French (and I assume most romance languages, by extension?) also has such a word ("roux", which derives from the latin for "red" but nowadays only ever mean "red-orange-for-hair-fur-etc."), except that it also happens to be used in cooking, as the base for a sauce ( it's a bit more specific than that, but let's keep it simple) (this is the meaning that went into English, I think). I also have no idea how the colour and sauce came to use the same word, since again I've never seen a roux (sauce) that was actually roux (colour).
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@remi said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Bulb kind of like "ginger" in English, except it's also used for something else that has barely any link with the colour. I've never seen any form of ginger-the-spice that looks anywhere near ginger-the-colour (insert Geri Halliwell reference here). No idea how the two came to be linked, btw?
Ginger-the-spice does not, bug ginger ale does, as might ginger bread, though that's more of plain brown. And those are basically the only two uses of the spice… um, not sure why ginger bread even got that name, because the dominant flavours tend to be cloves and badian.
French (and I assume most romance languages, by extension?) also has such a word ("roux", which derives from the latin for "red" but nowadays only ever mean "red-orange-for-hair-fur-etc."), except that it also happens to be used in cooking, as the base for a sauce ( it's a bit more specific than that, but let's keep it simple) (this is the meaning that went into English, I think). I also have no idea how the colour and sauce came to use the same word, since again I've never seen a roux (sauce) that was actually roux (colour).
I didn't try to look, but it might also be that two words with separate origins converged to become homonyms.
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Ginger-the-spice does not, bug ginger ale does, as might ginger bread, though that's more of plain brown. And those are basically the only two uses of the spice… um, not sure why ginger bread even got that name, because the dominant flavours tend to be cloves and badian.
Meh... maybe, yes. That's not hugely convincing though, because ginger ale isn't necessarily very different in colour from (some types of) not-ginger ale (also known as... ale!), or other types of drinks. Also, red-haired people existed far longer before ginger became widely known (not necessarily available, but at least known) in the English-speaking world. And it's not the other way round (ginger named this way because of the hair colour) since the word is very similar in other languages (e.g. French "gingembre") so it's almost certain that it comes from e.g. its name in a far-eastern language.
I didn't try to look, but it might also be that two words with separate origins converged to become homonyms.
I had a quick look after posting and apparently, no, the base for sauce was named after the colour. I imagine that it's because cooks said something like "cook the butter & flour until it starts getting brown-ish, a bit like a red-haired person" and thus took to calling it the same, but at that point it could equally well have been named hazelnut (which actually is a name for another butter-based sauce!) or autumn leaves (yeah I'm picking colours I can see right now...) or even poo (no, I can't see this one right now, and also it doesn't sound very sexy for food (!!!)...).
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TIL Postgres accepts 'allballs' in a time literal (standing in for 00:00:00:00 UTC)
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
allballs
What the heck is that?
Are other strings accepted?
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@topspin said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
What the heck is that?
00 00 00 00
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/datatype-datetime.html#DATATYPE-DATETIME-SPECIAL-TABLE says:
Input string Valid types Description epoch date, timestamp 1970-01-01 00:00:00+00 (Unix system time zero) infinity date, timestamp later than all other time stamps -infinity date, timestamp earlier than all other time stamps now date, time, timestamp current transaction's start time today date, timestamp midnight (00:00) today tomorrow date, timestamp midnight (00:00) tomorrow yesterday date, timestamp midnight (00:00) yesterday allballs time 00:00:00.00 UTC
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Postgres accepts 'allballs' in a time literal
If it was an alternative to something more readable like
midnight
, OK, but as the only special value for time (rather than datetime)Also the way the values are resolved at statement compilation time rather than execution time is a serious ¹
¹ I thought there was a foot/leg emoji, but can't find it. Either the search is or the emoji has some name (or there actually isn't one, because the emoji sets are totally random).
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Also the way the values are resolved at statement compilation time rather than execution time is a serious
I hadn't even noticed that (despite the big yellow warning in the page I linked to).
Cheese crackers.
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Postgres accepts 'allballs' in a time literal
Postgres is not JV
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Thank you Urban Dictionary.
(I assume you meant the first definition?)
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@Zecc
No, Postgres, unlike Oracle, allows you to hang around other DBs without issue.
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@Zecc said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Thank you Urban Dictionary.
(I assume you meant the first definition?)
That's something much different from what I meant:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=J.V.
UrbanDictionary doesn't contrast this with "all balls", so they don't have the whole story.
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@Luhmann said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Zecc
No, Postgres, unlike Oracle, allows you to hang around other DBs without issue.No database does anything without issue.
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@loopback0
They are very much like a girlfriend ... spent a lot of time and preparation into putting things into it only the get garbage out
and they never, ever forget your past mistakes
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@Luhmann Much like a girlfriend they insist on committing
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@loopback0
But make a wrong move and everything is lost
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Either the search is or the emoji has some name
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@HardwareGeek It wasn't a xor. Both is a perfectly valid possibility.
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When you open some Twitter post and select some text (with Alt so it doesn't you away), then click on the empty space over at the right edge of the page, the selection clears up like you'd expect it to do. But if you click on the left side, it doesn't. Weird.
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@Luhmann
You should have dumped them before that.
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
If it was an alternative to something more readable like midnight, OK, but as the only special value for time (rather than datetime)
midnight
is ambiguous since there are two instants per day that could be considered "midnight". And also wrong because 00:00:00.00 UTC usually isn't midnight.allballs
has been there since the early '90s. Some believe that it was just grad students; other's say that it's Air Force-via-NASA slang that a contributor from JPL introduced (see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balls_8).
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@Watson said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
other's say that it's Air Force-via-NASA slang
I've heard the term before, although I can't remember in what context.
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@Watson said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
If it was an alternative to something more readable like midnight, OK, but as the only special value for time (rather than datetime)
midnight
is ambiguous since there are two instants per day that could be considered "midnight".ISO has decided long ago that a day lasts from 0:00:00 inclusive to 24:00:00 exclusive. No ambiguity.
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@Gąska said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Watson said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
If it was an alternative to something more readable like midnight, OK, but as the only special value for time (rather than datetime)
midnight
is ambiguous since there are two instants per day that could be considered "midnight".ISO has decided long ago that a day lasts from 0:00:00 inclusive to 24:00:00 exclusive. No ambiguity.
ISO also decided long ago that dates should be written YYYY-MM-DD.
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@Watson and thus any ambiguity is self-inflicted by individual devs.
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@Gąska said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
ISO has decided long ago that a day lasts from 0:00:00 inclusive to 24:00:00 exclusive. No ambiguity.
The year there's a negative leap second will truly cause many milliseconds of trouble.
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@Zecc isn't leap second 23:59:60?
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@Gąska Yes This is why I shouldn't post after 24:00.
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@Watson said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
midnight
is ambiguous since there are two instants per day that could be considered "midnight". And also wrong because 00:00:00.00 UTC usually isn't midnight.That's just like how 12:00 AM (or PM) confuses people, and has to do with how hour progression on the 12 hour clock works.
On the 24 hour clock as commonly used in Europe, it starts with 0:00 for leading midnight and ends with 23:59:59 as the last full second. There is no confusion with 12 being more strongly associated with 11 than with 1.
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@PleegWat said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
That's just like how 12:00 AM (or PM) confuses people, and has to do with how hour progression on the 12 hour clock works.
I've pondered it a bit and I think I know why it's confusing to me (which may or may not be why it's confusing to ahem normal people).
Looking at the hours starting from 01:00 we have
01:00 -> 01:00 am
02:00 -> 02:00 am
...
11:00 -> 11:00 am
12:00 -> 12:00 pm
13:00 -> 01:00 pm
14:00 -> 02:00 pm
...
23:00 -> 11:00 pm
00:00 -> 12:00 amWith the 24 hour clock, we have one cycle a day where everything wraps around after 24 hours, at exactly 00:00. Obviously.
Now, you'd think, with the 12 hour clock you'd have two cycles a day where everything wraps around at 12:00. But there's actually two different things that wrap around at two different times. At noon/midnight the suffix switches from am to pm or vice versa. But the number part, unlike on the 24 hour clock, doesn't. It switches going from 12 to 1. So, in the list above, you see two consecutive lines with a bolded part that wraps around compared to the next line.Maybe that is what you meant.
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@topspin said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
Now, you'd think, with the 12 hour clock you'd have two cycles a day where everything wraps around at 12:00.
If you read 12 as 0 then this is true as well.
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@Gąska 12-based indexing.
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@topspin said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
I've pondered it a bit and I think I know why it's confusing to me (which may or may not be why it's confusing to ahem normal people).
It is generally only the exact high noon and midnight that are confusing. See, am means “before noon” (ante meridiem) and pm means “after noon” (post meridiem). So which half the noon itself belongs to?
With 24-hour representation the convention that time is always rounded down, so the boundaries belong to the interval following them (00:00 = 〈00:00, 00:01)) and therefore midnight belongs to the new day.
The same convention applies to 12-hour representation, so noon belongs to afternoon, and is therefore 12:00pm and midnight belongs to the morning, and is therefore 12:00am, or sometimes 00:00am. But not all people think in rounding and the before/after noon terminology throws them off when talking about the noon itself. 12:01pm is no longer confusing to them, because it reads 1 minute past noon and that's clear, just the exact 12:00 does.
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@Gąska said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
@Watson and thus any ambiguity is self-inflicted by individual devs.
I had to go in to one application that sometimes dropped records. Whoever was responsible didn't cope with time being a continuum in the standard Dedekind cut method. A day ran from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 inclusive.
Anything that happened between the end of one day and the start of the next would eventually just go bye-bye. That might be good enough if you're only working business hours in a single timezone, but as soon as you start hosting online services 24/7...
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@Watson Well, if all timestamps had 1 second resolution, it would have worked. But if they had higher resolution, then of course …
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
The same convention applies to 12-hour representation, so noon belongs to afternoon, and is therefore 12:00pm and midnight belongs to the morning, and is therefore 12:00am, or sometimes 00:00am. But not all people think in rounding and the before/after noon terminology throws them off when talking about the noon itself. 12:01pm is no longer confusing to them, because it reads 1 minute past noon and that's clear, just the exact 12:00 does.
Out in the real world: we've been having health orders for adjusting lockdown levels, and when they're announced the time they are declared as coming into effect has been 11:59pm on <day> precisely because of the confusion people have over what 12:00 refers to whether it's AM or PM. Even if you figure out that it's not going to refer to midday (because of the amount of disruption that would cause) does "midnight Wednesday" mean the moment when Tuesday transitions to Wednesday or the moment when Wednesday transitions to Thursday?
But that solution comes with its own problems due to abbreviation. If the lockdown is to be lifted at 23:59 Wednesday everyone hears "Wednesday" and guess what happens on Wednesday.
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@Bulb said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
With 24-hour representation the convention that time is always rounded down, so the boundaries belong to the interval following them (00:00 = 〈00:00, 00:01)) and therefore midnight belongs to the new day.
Except when midnight is written as 24:00
@Watson said in TIL (about the Dark Arts of HTML):
But that solution comes with its own problems due to abbreviation. If the lockdown is to be lifted at 23:59 Wednesday everyone hears "Wednesday" and guess what happens on Wednesday.
So probably smarter to announce start just before midnight and end just after.