Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
For different games, these are important to different degrees. Sports games, for example, have no real plot, and thus their plot isn't a worthwhile thing to mention in a review at all.
Have you played FIFA recently?
No.
USA! USA! USA!
Edit: I know about The Journey mode, and a review of that story is fair game in a review of a FIFA game with that mode. But that's wildly outside the norm in a sports game.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Find me a professional video game reviewer who actually knows what they're talking about.
Hell, find me one who's professional.Yeah, game reviews are pretty bad. But at least they don't have shitty thumbnails, don't contain spoilers without warnings (often, YT "helpfully" places spoilers in the "related videos" section) and don't tell me to "like and subscribe".
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@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
But you're arguing against the 36-hour ban.
Yes. Because people who are going to post shitty reviews of the game without buying it are still going to do so irregardless of whether there's a 36-hour moratorium or not. They'll just do it 36 hours later, and there'll be even less of a way to tell whether it's being review bombed or not.
@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Everyone is regurgitating the bullshit that was spread by the review bombers.
You say that as though people read the reviews in question. If they bother to write a comment, it'll be ten words or less. The bullshit is certainly being regurgitated, but people are getting it off review channels and dishrags like One Angry Gamer, not from the Metacritic user reviews section.
@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
but they're impossible to find among the bullshit and ree-ing against LGBT characters.
As I said:
@pie_flavor said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Including a trans character in a game is a perfectly sane thing to do. (You will notice that people did not review-bomb, say, Assassin's Creed: Syndicate, or Horizon: Zero Dawn.) Having a character, trans or no, brutally murder a character you had grown rather attached to, and subsequently becoming the character you play as, is not, and that does not get into the (fully mo-capped (by Druckmann himself)) later sex scene. The only people who complained about trans-ness were on the other side of the fence: there was quite a lot of screaming about how just because a female character has an extremely masculine face and build does not mean they are trans.
You should maybe evaluate the actual complaints before dismissing everything as 'oh that's just because this character's trans'. Since, you know, it's just this one game and not a bunch of other games that also happen to have trans characters, many of them triple-A.
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@dfdub last I checked, user comments didn't either.
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@pie_flavor said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Since, you know, it's just this one game and not a bunch of other games that also happen to have trans characters, many of them triple-A.
All AAA games I ever heard of having trans characters, have been heavily criticized by players "for reasons other than having trans character".
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@Gąska Really? Where was the heavy criticism for those games I mentioned?
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@pie_flavor said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
You should maybe evaluate the actual complaints before dismissing everything as 'oh that's just because this character's trans'.
If they can't get over a foreseeable and logical death of an important character, then the review is not really useful either. I understand why the story is not for everyone, but if you're going to write a review, you should at least give it an actual chance instead of rage quitting in the prologue because you disagree with creative decisions.
And the character swap in the middle defines the story and is supposed to come as a shock that slowly wears off as you actually see the other side of the story. You have to actually finish the game to be able to form an opinion on whether they succeeded at what they were trying to do with the story. Again, if you rage quit at that point, you can't possibly call that a review of the game, because you've missed half of the plot and gameplay.
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@dfdub Yes, thank you for confirming that I didn't think review-bombing was a stupid and rude thing to do before attempting to convince me that review-bombing is a stupid and rude thing to do. I'm just saying you don't have to invent out of your ass more reasons that the people are stupid and rude. The ones you're presented with work just fine.
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@pie_flavor I admit I haven't looked into your quote earlier. Assassin's Creed was heavily criticized for being Assassin's Creed. I haven't heard of the Horizon franchise - maybe that Zero Dawn game is the real counterexample. Does it differ much from the original Horizon?
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@pie_flavor
Well, there are two types of bad reviews: The bigoted ones and those from people who are unreasonably angry about the story without actually having given it a chance.I'm not sure why you accuse me of making broad accusations, but I guess pointing out actual bigotry and then talking about something entirely different (because you responded with a different point) is controversial these days.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear
So I can review a book by reading the first page of every chapter?
I can review a music album by only looking at the album art? Or would that be a a review of the album art and not the fucking album?
Your point is getting stupider with every reply I read.
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
You have to actually finish the game to be able to form an opinion (...), if you rage quit at that point, you can't possibly call that a review of the game, because you've missed half of the plot and gameplay.
But professional reviews are okay?
Are we doing weird non-sequiturs now? Cool.
So you think offshore tax havens are okay?
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@dfdub
Can I have some offshore taxes too?
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
You have to actually finish the game to be able to form an opinion (...), if you rage quit at that point, you can't possibly call that a review of the game, because you've missed half of the plot and gameplay.
But professional reviews are okay?
Are we doing weird non-sequiturs now? Cool.
If you think "professional reviews" is a non-sequitur to "you have to actually finish the game", I don't think you've seen enough to have an informed opinion on the subject of game reviews.
I literally just wrote that professional reviews suck, too, but you were too busy making up false dichotomies to notice.
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@Luhmann said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear
So I can review a book by reading the first page of every chapter?If the book is deliberately arranged so that all the important stuff appears on the first page of every chapter, I don't see why not.
I can review a music album by only looking at the album art? Or would that be a a review of the album art and not the fucking album?
What? Album art is usually a painting/drawing or a photograph. Of course it's possible to critique paintings drawings and photographs. What are you even asking?
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@dfdub I'm just shit posting. Don't expect me to read everything everyone says - the thread is moving way too fast!
Anyway, I apologize what I said. I'm a bad human being and I wish I could turn back time.
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@dfdub although "pretty bad" doesn't even begin to describe the state of game journalism.
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
I'm just shit posting. Don't expect me to read everything everyone says - the thread is moving way too fast!
You even replied to that post.
Anyway, I apologize what I said. I'm a bad human being and I wish I could turn back time.
Good!
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@dfdub people routinely reply to my posts without reading them. What's the big deal now?
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
The problems that people had were with the narrative tone of the sequel and how different it was from the narrative tone of the original. The tone should be, and usually is, the same regardless of whether plot is being conveyed in a cutscene or if it is being conveyed in-engine.
Look, my only objection here is calling it a "Review of the game" when all you have done is watched leaked cut-scenes on YT.
Reviewing a game is hard, all to often people review some small part of a game and announce it as their "game review" when really they are super focused on one aspect of the game. Now, that isn't to say that their points arn't valid but it isn't a game review, it is a review of some part of the game. It might even be a pivotal part (as the narrative is in this case) but that doesn't make it the game.
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@Rhywden said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear Problems, shmoblems. My point still stands: A review should be based on the whole and not whatever you're cherrypicking out of it just because someone did something you didn't like.
Again, you seem to ignore what that word actually means. Are you illiterate?
@mods, the Garage is leaking again...
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
If the book is deliberately arranged so that all the important stuff appears on the first page of every chapter, I don't see why not.
But you will never know that will you? Because you considered only reading those pages enough for your review.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@Rhywden said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear Problems, shmoblems. My point still stands: A review should be based on the whole and not whatever you're cherrypicking out of it just because someone did something you didn't like.
Again, you seem to ignore what that word actually means. Are you illiterate?
@mods, the Garage is leaking again...
Fuck off.
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@Luhmann said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear
So I can review a book by reading the first page of every chapter?
I can review a music album by only looking at the album art? Or would that be a a review of the album art and not the fucking album?
Your point is getting stupider with every reply I read.I guess words don't have any meaning anymore. We can just choose any other meaning if we don't like what they actually mean, especially if it makes us look stupid.
Then again, ignoring the actual meaning accomplishes that even more so...
In this case, Metacritic chose to adhere to the actual meaning of the word "review" and rightfully decided that reviewing a game after zero seconds played is not an indicator for reliable reviews.
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@Luhmann said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
If the book is deliberately arranged so that all the important stuff appears on the first page of every chapter, I don't see why not.
But you will never know that will you? Because you considered only reading those pages enough for your review.
If the reason everyone liked the first book is because of how it was designed that all the important stuff was on the first page of the chapter, and it's the sequel, I think it's fair to make assumptions.
Also, a sequel that's sufficiently radically different than it's predecessor is bad by definition. If you want to make a different game, make a different game.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Also, a sequel that's sufficiently radically different than it's predecessor is bad by definition.
Oh?
Duke Nukem 1 & 2 vs. Duke Nukem 3D
Fallout 1 & 2 vs. Fallout 3
Metal Gear vs. Metal Gear Solid
GTA 1 & II vs. GTA IIIIf you want to make a different game, make a different game.
They did make a different game, if they wanted to make the same game they would of made it DLC.
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@boomzilla said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@mods, the Garage is leaking again...
Fuck off.
I literally laughed out loud. (Actually, I still am).
I think this would make for a good case study in the moderation meta thread(s) about
what happensone possible thing that may happen when you call for moderator attention.(NB: I mostly agree with the judgement call made here)
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@Dragoon Not only they made a different game, they publicly announced that it would be different. The said the first game was a game of(about) love, and the second a game of(again, about) hate.
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@Dragoon said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Also, a sequel that's sufficiently radically different than it's predecessor is bad by definition.
Oh?
Duke Nukem 1 & 2 vs. Duke Nukem 3D
Fallout 1 & 2 vs. Fallout 3
Metal Gear vs. Metal Gear Solid
GTA 1 & II vs. GTA IIII've never played a Fallout game and have no idea how different the iterations are.
2D Metal Gear and 3D Metal Gear Solid are basically the same except the 2D ones are top town and the 3D ones are played from a 3rd person perspective. Same with GTA2 or GTA GBA versus GTA 3. How different do you consider A Link to the Past from Ocarina of Time?
Duke Nukem 3D isn't really a sequel to Duke Nukem 2. It's not the same genre, it's not the same setting, and it doesn't continue the same story. Yeah, the main character's name is Duke Nukem, but that's the only thing the two games have in common.
if they wanted to make the same game they would of made it DLC.
Just so you know, this is the only reason for the downvote.
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@dfdub said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
And the character swap in the middle defines the story and is supposed to come as a shock that slowly wears off as you actually see the other side of the story. You have to actually finish the game to be able to form an opinion on whether they succeeded at what they were trying to do with the story. Again, if you rage quit at that point, you can't possibly call that a review of the game, because you've missed half of the plot and gameplay.
Actually, I would disagree with this particular point. User evaluation on Metacritic/Steam that says "The character swap in the middle really put me off, I wasn't able to finish the game" is actually informative and thus useful. It might affect me as well. Or maybe not - it's something I can evaluate.
Unlike @GuyWhoKilledBear 's evaluation based solely on the story cutscenes (or, more likely, their summary by some helpful "alternative" reviewer), which brings absolutely no information whatsoever. You know, I can watch youtube too. Or read reviews.
I think I should emphasize one thing: user ratings are not supposed to be reviews. User rating is supposed to provide data about real users' experience with the game. Large amount of data, that's the important part.
Metacritic bombing is specifically intended to break the system and there is no valid excuse for that.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Actually, I would disagree with this particular point. User evaluation on Metacritic/Steam that says "The character swap in the middle really put me off, I wasn't able to finish the game" is actually informative and thus useful. It might affect me as well. Or maybe not - it's something I can evaluate.
OK, I guess you have a point there.
The biggest problem with this game IMO is that it's almost impossible to review without spoiling the parts that make it great (in the eyes of the players that liked part 2). If you already know what's happening, all that's left is the gameplay, which gets boring after a few hours.
The other big problem is that many people remember part 1 as a classic hero story, which it definitely wasn't. Of course, if you expect to have another nice few hours with your favorite characters who you perceived as heroes, you're not going to like part 2. But you also didn't really pay attention in part 1 or at least misunderstood the story the developers tried to tell.
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@pie_flavor I admit I haven't looked into your quote earlier. Assassin's Creed was heavily criticized for being Assassin's Creed. I haven't heard of the Horizon franchise - maybe that Zero Dawn game is the real counterexample. Does it differ much from the original Horizon?
Syndicate, however, had no controversy or review-bombing. And I have no idea, I just read Zero Dawn on a list of games with trans people in them.
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@dfdub people routinely reply to my posts without reading them. What's the big deal now?
YMBNH
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@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
For different games, these are important to different degrees. Sports games, for example, have no real plot, and thus their plot isn't a worthwhile thing to mention in a review at all.
Have you played FIFA recently?
They've let the zombies out of the FIFA board and you now need to hunt them down through the power of the offside rule?
(I've no idea what I'm talking about here.)
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@Dragoon said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Also, a sequel that's sufficiently radically different than it's predecessor is bad by definition.
Oh?
Duke Nukem 1 & 2 vs. Duke Nukem 3D
Fallout 1 & 2 vs. Fallout 3
Metal Gear vs. Metal Gear Solid
GTA 1 & II vs. GTA IIIIf you want to make a different game, make a different game.
They did make a different game, if they wanted to make the same game they would of made it DLC.
Dune versus Dune 2.
The first was more of an adventure with strategy elements, the other one was the foundation for RTS games to come.
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@dkf said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
I've no idea what I'm talking about here.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
I've never played a Fallout game and have no idea how different the iterations are.
Fallout 1 and 2 are one of the best RPG games ever made and 3 is shit.
I'd say the change was significant.
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@MrL said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Fallout 1 and 2 are one of the
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@MrL said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Fallout 1 and 2 are one of the best RPG games ever made and 3 is shit.
The problem there was that 3 was only partially shit. The same technology powers New Vegas and that's a far superior game despite being technically very similar. The difference? Primarily in the writing. (Some of the DLC for 3 was pretty good too IIRC, but it's a very long time since I played it.)
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Say what you want about 3, it least it's actually playable. I've never managed to get Fallout 1 or 2 to run on a modern PC.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@MrL said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Fallout 1 and 2 are one of the
English as Second Language.
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12 people have reviewed a game that's not out until much later this year.
(image from Reddit)
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@pie_flavor said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@Gąska said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@pie_flavor I admit I haven't looked into your quote earlier. Assassin's Creed was heavily criticized for being Assassin's Creed. I haven't heard of the Horizon franchise - maybe that Zero Dawn game is the real counterexample. Does it differ much from the original Horizon?
Syndicate, however, had no controversy or review-bombing. And I have no idea, I just read Zero Dawn on a list of games with trans people in them.
The characters in Syndicate and H:ZD were minor characters. So minor that even though I played those games, I just had to look up who they were.
And the funny thing about TLOU2 is that the actual trans character isn't even that controversial. (At least outside a certain group of "reviewers" who claim that two LGBT characters is too many for a single game and that their existence somehow makes it political.) What everybody bitched about on the internet was a straight, female character whose masculine appearance they didn't like and who some of them incorrectly assumed to be trans. (If you actually play the game, it's very obvious that she's not trans, only very muscular. And may or may not be abusing steroids.)
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@dkf said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@MrL said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Fallout 1 and 2 are one of the best RPG games ever made and 3 is shit.
The problem there was that 3 was only partially shit. The same technology powers New Vegas and that's a far superior game despite being technically very similar. The difference? Primarily in the writing. (Some of the DLC for 3 was pretty good too IIRC, but it's a very long time since I played it.)
Absolutely. Reason for this is quite obvious - creative teams:
for 3 - Bethesda
for Vegas - Obsidian
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
Say what you want about 3, it least it's actually playable. I've never managed to get Fallout 1 or 2 to run on a modern PC.
Never had problems with this. Last time I played 1 and 2 was on Win 7 and I'm pretty sure they would run on 10.
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@loopback0 Aren't "curators" usually semi-professional reviewers? Who may have given access to the game pre-release in order to publicize it?
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Bad reviews? Gonna hafta wait a bit...:
@loopback0 Aren't "curators" usually semi-professional reviewers? Who may have given access to the game pre-release in order to publicize it?
I'm going with "no".
A link to a video Microsoft provided.
Novelty accounts-a-plenty:
Epic games haters:
And a load of other basically novelty accounts or non-reviews.
I'd link to them but the external store page just shows "No reviews".
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@dfdub You thought Ned Wynert, one of the three primary quest-givers, was a minor character?