In other news today...
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@Bulb It was definitely a fact when the article was written. Today... that's more questionable.
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@Mason_Wheeler It's also possible they could build a fast ARM if they didn't care about the power consumption, but for mobile the power consumption is still more important, so they focus on keeping that low, because that's where they have the biggest competitive advantage.
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@error_bot xkcd progressively nonsensical
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
@anonymous234 We've had that “why mobile web apps are slow” article linked somewhere. Important part of its argument is that ARM just does not scale the way amd64 does. So moving to ARM not really likely.
We'll have to hope that 2020 becomes the year of the Mill server.
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
maybe Intel will come out with a chip that will claw back at least the performance numbers (if not the price) in Q4 of this year
This year? Nope. Next year maybe. Jim Keller - the lead Zen designer - is with Intel since early 2018. 3 years from design to tapeout is doable, then it's only the matter of getting those non-existent 7nm fabs to work (and decent yield). Of course, there are no guarantees whatsoever that Keller has been able to pull another magic trick out of his sleeve. And he couldn't have just straight up copied old Zen and slapped Intel badge on it either.
And it could be the same thing as with Raja Koduri and a bunch of other RTG defectors (one of whom was told to clean out his desk not long ago). But Raja was always a mouthpiece. D in DG1 stands for dead. Keller, however, has spotless track record.
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
@anonymous234 We've had that “why mobile web apps are slow” article linked somewhere. Important part of its argument is that ARM just does not scale the way amd64 does. So moving to ARM not really likely.
That's why mobile web apps are slow? The 9GB of JavaScript stuff and 37 layers of abstraction have nothing to do with it?
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
for personal desktops, at this point therre is literally no reason to go intel over AMD right now. Current Generation Ryzen chips out perform the intel chips at equivalent pricepoints all the way up to the "you are a stupid enthusiast that wants the absolute most powere possible even though the chip that costs a third of what this one costs would work just as well for you. do you really need a computer worth more than your car?!" levels.
Unless something has changed (haven't looked since the summer) Intel is still superior if you are doing moderate (or higher) overclocking. The low end Ryzens have essentially no headroom to overclock, but the low end Intels have a decent amount. Allowing you to see significant gains in clock speeds. Which depending on your application (and lets face it, most apps people use are still single thread bound) can see massive gains. This of course requires the user to overclock, which is not for most people. But this ability should not be dismissed.
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@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
@Vixen said in In other news today...:
for personal desktops, at this point therre is literally no reason to go intel over AMD right now. Current Generation Ryzen chips out perform the intel chips at equivalent pricepoints all the way up to the "you are a stupid enthusiast that wants the absolute most powere possible even though the chip that costs a third of what this one costs would work just as well for you. do you really need a computer worth more than your car?!" levels.
Unless something has changed (haven't looked since the summer) Intel is still superior if you are doing moderate (or higher) overclocking. The low end Ryzens have essentially no headroom to overclock, but the low end Intels have a decent amount. Allowing you to see significant gains in clock speeds. Which depending on your application (and lets face it, most apps people use are still single thread bound) can see massive gains. This of course requires the user to overclock, which is not for most people. But this ability should not be dismissed.
eeh. honestly in my experience if you're overclocking a lower end chip you're jsut not going to see good returns as they tend to get significantly more unstable at lower overclocks on both red and blue sides. IME you're almost always better just stepping up a grade of processor than overclocking a lower end one.
YMMV HTH WTF BBQ ETC
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
IME you're almost always better just stepping up a grade of processor than overclocking a lower end one.
If you are looking at he super low end, I would agree. I should of expanded on it more. As you get into better chips, both Ryzen and Intel increase their headroom. Ryzen starts at essentially zero and Intel starts at a decent point and both increase from there.
Once you start getting into the mid-range and the low-end of the top of the line overclocking starts looking very appealing and you can get considerable gains. At the mid-range in particular I think Intel has a sweet spot where for the overclocking user, Intel is a better buy than Ryzen.
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@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
Intel is still superior if you are doing moderate (or higher) overclocking
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@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
At the mid-range in particular I think Intel has a sweet spot where for the overclocking user, Intel is a better buy than Ryzen.
I respectfully disagree with you, but I follow the logic you are presenting and believe the disagreement lies in differences in priorities for the criteria used to select components. You use a different prioritization methodology that while different from mine in a way I disagree with, seems at least self consistent in its logic and should result in a system that while not optimal according to my selection criteria should be exceedingly functional.... and really at the end of the day that's all that matters isn't it?
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The coronavirus in China seems to be super dangerous, lots of people getting sick and/or dying, air travel restricted for millions. Apparently it's more dangerous than the Spanish Flu epidemic, and way more than SARS or H1N1.
"But what," ask you, the naive news reader, "about iPhone 9 and Airpod production?"
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@hungrier I didn't realise they even still made the 9.
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@TimeBandit join the flamewar here:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/27029/maryland-outlaws-ransomware-what-could-possibly-go-wrong
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@loopback0 said in In other news today...:
@hungrier I didn't realise they even still made the 9.
It hasn't come out yet. They released the 8 and X at the same time, skipping 9 entirely until now (or whenever it actually comes out)
iPhone 9 packaging process, colorized:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqCVB0tOSVQ
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@TimeBandit Nice onebox
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in In other news today...:
it's only the matter of getting those non-existent 7nm fabs to work (and decent yield).
That's the actually hard bit. A lot of the problems that Intel have been having were apparently due to a decision to use cobalt for the wiring to the gates instead of copper. Cobalt has some advantages with electrical (?) characteristics at that scale (if I remember what I read right), but copper has great conductivity and thermal conductivity, so using purely cobalt wiring resulted in problems with heat dissipation, resulting in chips that would overheat on a micro-level during testing, absolutely ruining yields. Without at least reasonable yields, manufacturing is just crazy expensive and the resulting processors are not meaningful at the level of the whole market.
When combined with some other standard management fuckups, the result is that the likes of TSMC caught up and passed them on the fab technologies despite moving more conservatively initially, and both ARM and AMD benefit from that in various ways. (AMD fab at TSMC, and so do many ARM licensees.) I believe that the technology that's actually being used is a cobalt coating on a core of copper, so getting most of the best of both worlds; this is apparently what the big east asian fabs are using now, and Intel has essentially followed suit (and is now having to play catch up instead of being a market leader on the chip tech front).
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
The coronavirus in China seems to be super dangerous, lots of people getting sick and/or dying, air travel restricted for millions. Apparently it's more dangerous than the Spanish Flu epidemic, and way more than SARS or H1N1.
Deaths due to corona virus so far: > 1000.
Deaths due to seasonal flu every year: > 100,000.I’m gonna go with:
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@topspin I just wrote out a bunch of stuff as a dramatic intro to the actual article I posted
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@djls45 said in In other news today...:
@da-Doctah Then there's the Bolder Boulder.
And never forget about the Over the Shoulder Boulder Holder!
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@topspin Also, it's currently less contagious than influenza so...
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
It hasn't come out yet. They released the 8 and X at the same time, skipping 9 entirely until now (or whenever it actually comes out)
Oh, yeah...as you can tell, I did not RTFA.
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@TimeBandit After reading the headline, I was " do we want the govt to recommend cosmetic procedures!?!"
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Apparently, today is Data Privacy Day. So, what better way to celebrate than by buying some always-on surveillance devices and data breach vectors?
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This isn't even offensive!
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in In other news today...:
@anonymous234 said in In other news today...:
This isn't even offensive!
This, on the other hand...
Is that thermometer backwards?
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@PleegWat He's a bear of very little brains.
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Demands an apology from the newspaper.
It’s a newspaper. What are they going to do? I don’t think they have much leverage there.
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@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Is that thermometer backwards?
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
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@Zecc said in In other news today...:
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By looking at where it's inserted
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@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Is that thermometer backwards?
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By taste?
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Is that thermometer backwards?
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By taste?
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@Benjamin-Hall said in In other news today...:
@Vixen said in In other news today...:
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Is that thermometer backwards?
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By taste?
they pitched a slow ball straight over the plate, was i not supposed to swing for the fences?
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
was i not supposed to swing for the fe
nces?
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@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
@Vixen said in In other news today...:
was i not supposed to swing for the fe
nces?exactly
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
It’s a newspaper. What are they going to do? I don’t think they have much leverage there.
Ban it from Chinese newsstands?
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
@Benjamin-Hall said in In other news today...:
@Vixen said in In other news today...:
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Is that thermometer backwards?
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By taste?
they pitched a slow ball straight over the plate, was i not supposed to swing for the fences?
Speaking of taste: someone is salty.
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@anonymous234 said in In other news today...:
This isn't even offensive!
The Chinese are highly nationalistic, and the Danes have poked that particular bear before.
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@Vixen said in In other news today...:
How do you tell a rectal thermometer from an under-the-arm one?
By taste?
Expected hidden snark inside an HTML comment. Was disappointed.
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@hungrier said in In other news today...:
The coronavirus in China seems to be super dangerous, lots of people getting sick and/or dying, air travel restricted for millions. Apparently it's more dangerous than the Spanish Flu epidemic, and way more than SARS or H1N1.
"But what," ask you, the naive news reader, "about iPhone 9 and Airpod production?"
All production is affected, since China produced half of everything. CPUs, PCBs, ...
Yesterday I recommended to our sourcing guy that we pad our in-house stock of components, since supply might get scarce.
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@Rhywden said in In other news today...:
@topspin Also, it's currently less contagious than influenza so...
Do you have a source for that? First google result gives:
That would make 2019-nCoV less contagious than SARS, which had an R0 of 3, but more contagious than seasonal flu.
I'm of course, assuming that you're using a variant of English where "flu" === "influenza".
Last I heard, it can be contracted if someone sneezes to your eyes, so that'd make it worse than regular seasonal flus in that regard. I do agree that's it's less easy to contract than the Black Plague, but it's not exactly an ebola either.
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@anonymous234 said in In other news today...:
We'll have to hope that 2020 becomes the year of the Mill server.
Do they already have gcc and llvm (clang) backends that can realize the advantages?
Because back then when Itanium was designed, some colleagues at the university worked on the gcc backend and it just turned out to be impossible to align the instructions well enough for the VLIW to realize any benefit. And Mill also uses VLIW, so it has serious risk of running into all the same problems.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
That's why mobile web apps are slow? The 9GB of JavaScript stuff and 37 layers of abstraction have nothing to do with it?
They certainly do. But the fact they are still (barely) tolerable on desktop while totally unusable on mobile has to do with the platform differences including the CPU differences.
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@LaoC said in In other news today...:
@Vixen said in In other news today...:
they pitched a slow ball straight over the plate, was i not supposed to swing for the fences?
Speaking of taste: someone is salty.