Secure electronic voting system
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DARPA Is Building a $10 Million, Open Source, Secure Voting System
The system will be fully open source and designed with newly developed secure hardware to make the system not only impervious to certain kinds of hacking, but also allow voters to verify that their votes were recorded accurately.
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I'm I alone thinking that any electronic voting system should print your vote on a piece of paper that you then drop in a ballot box after verifying that your vote was properly cast. If there is any doubt about the results, we can do a recount using the paper ballots?
IOW, a paper trail
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@TimeBandit My country uses such a system for certain elections (different jurisdictions have the right to decide how to run their elections). The machines assist in counting but the actual printed ballots, manually counted, are the "source of truth".
I think the problem with electronic voting lies in the difficulty in defining what it means, and what problems with manual elections are being fixed. In my country, for example, distributing ballots on national elections is still left up to the parties. There's some assistance from the government, but ultimately it's the parties that are responsible. And if all your ballots disappear from the voting room and there're no replacements available? You're not getting any more votes from that location. So a single ballot system could help fix that problem. Is a printer necessary though? It can help in filling in the single ballot, maybe, but I imagine many other alternatives would be cheaper.
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@TimeBandit said in Secure electronic voting system:
I'm I alone thinking that any electronic voting system should print your vote on a piece of paper that you then drop in a ballot box after verifying that your vote was properly cast. If there is any doubt about the results, we can do a recount using the paper ballots?
IOW, a paper trail
That's exactly how it's done in my state. Except that you don't actually touch the ballot, but it's in a receipt roll thing that deposits it into a box automatically.
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@sloosecannon said in Secure electronic voting system:
Except that you don't actually touch the ballot, but it's in a receipt roll thing that deposits it into a box automatically
So, you can't verify that it printed the right vote
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@TimeBandit you can. There's a window to look at what was printed.
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@Kian said in Secure electronic voting system:
and what problems with manual elections are being fixed.
None. Paper based elections work just fine.
They are simple, effective, and easy to verify by normal human beings. Unlike electronic elections where, even if they actually were secure, my grandma couldn't know this other than from so-called experts saying "yes, trust us!"
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I believe over here they are looking into redesigning the ballot, but currently only to make it more compact. Currently, all candidate names are printed on the ballot, frequently resulting in ballots larger than a fully folded open broadsheet newspaper.
A suggestion was to print the party names in full, but only provide a numbered list of candidates, and have the voter colour in both the box next to their party and optionally their candidate in that party. The full list of candidates would still be published to all eligible voters and provided in the voting booth.
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@PleegWat said in Secure electronic voting system:
I believe over here they are looking into redesigning the ballot, but currently only to make it more compact. Currently, all candidate names are printed on the ballot, frequently resulting in ballots larger than a fully folded open broadsheet newspaper.
A suggestion was to print the party names in full, but only provide a numbered list of candidates, and have the voter colour in both the box next to their party and optionally their candidate in that party. The full list of candidates would still be published to all eligible voters and provided in the voting booth.
One possible weakness of this is that someone could switch the real list in a booth with a bogus one.
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@jinpa True, and that could lead to a preferential vote going to a different candidate of the same party. I'm sure they're considering it - I haven't heard any final outcomes of the idea yet.
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Microsoft offers software tools to secure elections
Microsoft has announced an ambitious effort to make voting secure, verifiable and subject to reliable audits by registering ballots in encrypted form so they can be accurately and independently tracked long after they are cast.
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I don't see any links to this, potentially relevant and a demonstration of why the software needs to be open source:
Researchers Find Critical Backdoor in Swiss Online Voting System
Researchers have found a severe issue in the new Swiss internet voting system that they say would let someone alter votes undetected. They say it should put a halt to Switzerland’s plan to roll out the system in real elections this year.
I'd still probably vote by paper ballot, just because I'm a paranoid asshole. I remember in the 2008 elections I requested a paper ballot and the election official actually argued with me:
: What do you do for a living?
: I study IT security.
: Well, if you study IT security, you should want to go paperless! These systems are less prone to errors than paper ballots!He argued to the point where I had to threaten to call the Voter Registrar's office to report election tampering before I got a paper ballot.
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I tried to vote in the 2016 election, but they wouldn't let me vote in the county I lived in because I was registered in a different county, and they wouldn't let me vote in the county I was registered in because I lived in a different county.
After a long argument with the election official, I was allowed to cast a provisional vote in the county I lived in. I was notified by mail after the election ended that my provisional vote had been rejected.
Dallas county and Collin county are immediately adjacent, and indeed several Dallas suburbs straddle the county line. I had moved about 10 miles north.
Filed under: Every vote matters!, tl;dr: I cast one of the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.
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@heterodox said in Secure electronic voting system:
: Well, if you study IT security, you should want to go paperless! These systems are less prone to errors than paper ballots!He probably also thinks you have IoS door locks.
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@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
I tried to vote in the 2016 election, but they wouldn't let me vote in the county I lived in because I was registered in a different county, and they wouldn't let me vote in the county I was registered in because I lived in a different county.
After a long argument with the election official, I was allowed to cast a provisional vote in the county I lived in. I was notified by mail after the election ended that my provisional vote had been rejected.
Dallas county and Collin county are immediately adjacent, and indeed several Dallas suburbs straddle the county line. I had moved about 10 miles north.
Filed under: Every vote matters!, tl;dr: I cast one of the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.
That's surreal. In France, you vote where you are registered, though you are encouraged to change your registration when you move (there was a time I was registered in a city about 350 km from where I lived). Doing so only requires a quick visit to the town hall of the new place (with proof of identity and residency). The change is effective at the start of the following year (you are then removed from your previous place's electoral register and added to your new place's).
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@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
I tried to vote in the 2016 election, but they wouldn't let me vote in the county I lived in because I was registered in a different county, and they wouldn't let me vote in the county I was registered in because I lived in a different county.
After a long argument with the election official, I was allowed to cast a provisional vote in the county I lived in. I was notified by mail after the election ended that my provisional vote had been rejected.
Dallas county and Collin county are immediately adjacent, and indeed several Dallas suburbs straddle the county line. I had moved about 10 miles north.
Filed under: Every vote matters!, tl;dr: I cast one of the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.
Weird. In my state, things are fairly well organized (local government? well organized? never.) -- I think the DMV, USPS, and some other systems are integrated so if any of them know of a move the Registrar's Office is notified of the move as well. I don't think I've ever had to update my voter's registration -- I've just been sent a new one in the mail with my new district.
Filed under: I could just be making this up, I haven't moved in a while, but it seems like a good idea
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The issue was that my voter registration and driver's license disagreed about my address, so somebody fucked up somewhere. (Possibly me.)
Edit: Even if I did a dumb, and it was my own fault, I strongly believe every citizen has the right to vote, no matter how stupid and/or inept
Ithey may be.
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Just vote using smart contracts and put the votes on the blockchain
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@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
I tried to vote in the 2016 election, but they wouldn't let me vote in the county I lived in because I was registered in a different county, and they wouldn't let me vote in the county I was registered in because I lived in a different county.
Uh, yeah. You're supposed to update your registration when you move AFAIK. Which...I've never been registered in Texas, so I'm making an assumption.
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@heterodox said in Secure electronic voting system:
@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
I tried to vote in the 2016 election, but they wouldn't let me vote in the county I lived in because I was registered in a different county, and they wouldn't let me vote in the county I was registered in because I lived in a different county.
After a long argument with the election official, I was allowed to cast a provisional vote in the county I lived in. I was notified by mail after the election ended that my provisional vote had been rejected.
Dallas county and Collin county are immediately adjacent, and indeed several Dallas suburbs straddle the county line. I had moved about 10 miles north.
Filed under: Every vote matters!, tl;dr: I cast one of the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.
Weird. In my state, things are fairly well organized (local government? well organized? never.) -- I think the DMV, USPS, and some other systems are integrated so if any of them know of a move the Registrar's Office is notified of the move as well. I don't think I've ever had to update my voter's registration -- I've just been sent a new one in the mail with my new district.
Filed under: I could just be making this up, I haven't moved in a while, but it seems like a good idea
Yeah, since "motor voter" the DMV is usually pretty good about that. I know here in Virginia there's a check box about updating your voter registration. I was just in there getting mine upgraded to "Real ID" and I remember that, though I haven't moved in over a decade so my registration is fine.
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@boomzilla said in Secure electronic voting system:
I haven't moved in over a decade
That's beyound lazy
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@TimeBandit oh, yeah, I'm terrified of having to clear all the stuff out of the attic on the next move.
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I have fond memories of waiting through the line at the DMV, to be (somewhat derisively) told they don't handle licenses there, and that I should proceed to wait in the even longer line at the DPS. The DMV in Texas handles e.g. vehicle registrations.
If you type "driver's license office" into Google Maps it will erroneously direct you to the DMV.
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@TimeBandit said in Secure electronic voting system:
@boomzilla said in Secure electronic voting system:
I haven't moved in over a decade
That's beyound lazy
I've been in my home for 23yrs.
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@dcon said in Secure electronic voting system:
@TimeBandit said in Secure electronic voting system:
@boomzilla said in Secure electronic voting system:
I haven't moved in over a decade
That's beyound lazy
I've been in my home for 23yrs.
Once you own a home, the agent gets his cut every time you move, plus the significant hassle, so I figure it's better to reduce moves as much as possible.
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@dcon said in Secure electronic voting system:
I've been in my home for 23yrs.
The joke was thinking that he was standing still, not moving for all that time.
I guess
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@jinpa said in Secure electronic voting system:
the agent gets his cut every time you move
That sounds painful.
Before the leaders of the scientific, military, and political worlds began using the word “agent” to denote whatever had blown up the moon, that word’s most common interpretation, at least in the minds of the general public, had been in the pulp-fiction, B-movie sense of a secret agent or an FBI agent. Persons of a more technical mindset might have used it to mean some sort of chemical, such as a cleaning agent. The closest match for how the word would be used forever after was the sense in which it was used by fencers and martial artists. In a sword-fighting drill, where one participant is going to mount an attack and the other is to respond in some way, the attacker is known as the agent and the respondent is known as the patient. The agent acts. The patient is passive.
- Seveneves - Neal Stephenson
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@TimeBandit said in Secure electronic voting system:
@dcon said in Secure electronic voting system:
I've been in my home for 23yrs.
The joke was thinking that he was standing still, not moving for all that time.
I guess
Well, maybe he's moved around a little bit, but he's been in his home for 23 years.
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@jinpa Maybe he has severe social anxiety.
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@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
@jinpa Maybe he has severe social anxiety.
I don't have social anxiety, I just hate everyone
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@TimeBandit said in Secure electronic voting system:
@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
@jinpa Maybe he has severe social anxiety.
I don't have social anxiety, I just hate everyonemake sure nobody steps on the lawnFTFY
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@heterodox said in Secure electronic voting system:
: Well, if you study IT security, you should want to go paperless! These systems are less prone to errors than paper ballots!Lets see if this works
@error_bot !xkcd engineer infosec
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@boomzilla said in Secure electronic voting system:
I was just in there getting mine upgraded to "Real ID"
I remember seeing a news article saying the highest demand for the upgrade was in northern Virginia. Well... duh. Must have been a slow news day.
I hate the DMV so much I'm putting it off for a couple years, even though there's a DMV in my building that's not accessible to the general public (looks like the current wait is 40 minutes so fuck that).
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@heterodox said in Secure electronic voting system:
I hate the DMV so much I'm putting it off for a couple years,
I had to register the title for a used car I bought so I went ahead and upgraded my license at the same time. Took about two hours.
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@error_bot !xkcd engineer infosec
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https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?search=engineer+infosec&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go
0 results
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@error Yeah, I looked it up myself and found that. I blame explainxkcd for not reading my mind and knowing what comic I'm thinking of.
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@error_bot !xkcd Voting Software
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@error error_bot produced an error.
I guess that's normal
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@error_bot !xkcd block idle
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xkcd said in https://xkcd.com/2030/
Voting Software
(via https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?search=block+idle&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1)
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I produced error_bot, and error_bot produced me.
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@error said in Secure electronic voting system:
I produced error_bot, and error_bot produced me.
But who came first?
Wait, I don't really want to know
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Why is everybody trying to fuck
?
2030: Voting Software - explain xkcd
