Docker wankery
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I usually try to not look like a complete Idiot when someone talks about the latest shiny tech. If not for liking it, at least I'd like to be aware if I'm being bullshited to. One of the things that has been on the "Check out shiny new tech" list for way too long is Docker. Containerize the things was pretty much what I knew about it and I wanted to get hands-on on a good lazy saturday afternoon. Let's go.
STEP 1: Go to the download link and docker says "Login to download".
. Alright no problem I shall create an account so that I can learn to containerize shit.STEP 2: After logging in, I am greeted with this page
Oooooh Community must mean free. And this was again confirmed by what was written on the right. Now mind you I clicked Download right after I read "Docker for windows is available for free"
A 500MB file gets downloaded.
STEP 3: Click on Install aaaaaaand.
This is where I went WTF and then went back to the webpage and realized I did not read the instructions properly. My Bad. Fair Enough.
I've got a problem now though, you say Docker for windows community edition is free but then require Win 10 Professional or Server. So Community edition is free as in free for only someone who's paid a ton to get the professional edition? How many devs have professional edition at home? Maybe I'm TRWTF for having Home Edition on my computer where I literally do every development related task on? What about hobbyist programmers who want to try Docker on their home operating system that happens to be Windows Home (I'm sure no hobbyist has the professional windows edition)? Am I TRWTF for trying to learn Docker? This is so fucking frustrating.
All this wasted time and now I have to go and unsubscribe from the emails and newsletters crap I selected when I downloaded.
Time wasted trying to get started with Docker and reading up on it: 30 mins.
Amazing!
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@stillwater said in Docker wankery:
I've got a problem now though, you say Docker for windows community edition is free but then require Win 10 Professional or Server. So Community edition is free as in free for only someone who's paid a ton to get the professional edition?
Docker can't be run on Home Edition because it uses Hyper-V to create virtual machines.
It's not Docker's fault that Microsoft decided to make Hyper-V available only on Pro and Server editions.
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@julmu What the fuck. So Microsoft is the dick here. I am surprised. NOT!
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Alright so back to the .NET world for me eh. Back to corporate fuckery it is then.
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@stillwater
You should try Vagrant. It's not too different from Docker.
It can use Oracle VM VirtualBox as the hypervisor so you should be able to install it on Windows 10 Home too.
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@stillwater said in Docker wankery:
What about hobbyist programmers who want to try Docker on their home operating system that happens to be Windows Home (I'm sure no hobbyist has the professional windows edition)?
They install it on a Linux VM the way it should be.
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@stillwater said in Docker wankery:
How many devs have professional edition at home?
Maybe I'm TRWTF for having Home Edition on my computer where I literally do every development related task on?
No Remote Desktop or BitLocker? Yes, yes you are.
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@stillwater As @julmu said, Docker for Windows uses Hyper-V. Since your OS doesn't support it, you have two options: a) use their legacy product Docker Toolbox, which uses VirtualBox instead of Hyper-V, or b) use VirtualBox directly, create a regular Linux VM, and use Docker in that. I tried the first option and I was ready to reformat someone's face with a hammer afterwards. The second option works better, but VirtualBox has its own warts.
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When I get fed up with Linux it's nice to read something like this.
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Meh, I just run it on MacOS. Usually out of minikube.
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@DCoder said in Docker wankery:
use their legacy product Docker Toolbox, which uses VirtualBox instead of Hyper-V
I wanted to get it but then I'm already having a bad time with docs being outdated with the actual product everywhere and the docker page for Docker Toolbox says "you better upgrade to the actual version soon mudhafucka" and I did not want to work with docs taht might be outdated on docker on top of having to deal with outdated docs on aws. Trying to work out the kinks in the docs from two places at once would be a nightmare.
@DCoder said in Docker wankery:
I tried the first option and I was ready to reformat someone's face with a hammer afterwards
Now I remember reading your post. I never thought I'd have to deal with docker anytime soon so it was promptly forgotten. Yeah no I don't want to do all that fuckery. Seems more twisted than I can handle.
@DCoder said in Docker wankery:
The second option works better, but VirtualBox has its own warts.
I don't wanna install VirtualBox. I'd rather install Linux properly but then I feel like I' giving my laptop an STD. Not doing it. Any enthusiasm I had about docker has waned fully at this point.
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@ben_lubar said in Docker wankery:
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/
Second link would come in handy. Bookmarked. Thanks!
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Every single IT professional I know has Professional Edition at home. Hell, I have it on every single PC I own, whether it's necessary or not.
In all honesty, they're all MSDN serials. Technically against license? Yeah. Would Microsoft even be slightly sane to care? Fuck no they wouldn't.
5 copies at the $75 bulk rates they sell to major manufacturers is $375.
5 copies at $150 single unit OEM price is $750.
5 copies at full fat retail is $1000.As a result of keeping me happy at home, they sell loads of Windows server and SQL server licenses at prices higher than it would cost to literally put the servers into low earth orbit. Plus the flipping $3000 a year my employer horks up for me to have that MSDN subscription.
Given what I've seen of my Indian colleagues, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a national difference.
In fact, since Win10 happened, every time a major update happens, they've uploaded it to MSDN as a new product and previous serial utilization has vanished. So if I'd been paying attention, I'd have like 70 frigging serials for every edition of Win10 by now. That CANNOT be accidental.
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@julmu said in Docker wankery:
@stillwater
You should try Vagrant. It's not too different from Docker.
It can use Oracle VM VirtualBox as the hypervisor so you should be able to install it on Windows 10 Home too.But then you'd have Oracle on you.
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@Weng said in Docker wankery:
Technically against license? Yeah. Would Microsoft even be slightly sane to care? Fuck no they wouldn't.
Perhaps not sane, but when has that ever stopped MS, or lawyers, never mind (shudder) MS lawyers?
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@Weng A rule of thumb before saying something is cheap to someone here in the 3rd world is putting an extra zero there. Do you think 750$ is cheap to have windows pro? This about how those 75$ looks to us. (I'm accounting for both the difference on wages ans import taxes in the specific 3rd world country I live, at least).
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@sockpuppet7 said in Docker wankery:
@Weng A rule of thumb before saying something is cheap to someone here in the 3rd world is putting an extra zero there. Do you think 750$ is cheap to have windows pro? This about how those 75$ looks to us. (I'm accounting for both the difference on wages ans import taxes in the specific 3rd world country I live, at least).
I use this same trick.
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A Copy of Win 10 is around 150 USD for the Home edition and 210 USD for the Pro edition here in India. Personally I've never had to buy a copy of Windows ever. They always came pre-installed with the computers I bought.
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@Weng said in Docker wankery:
Every single IT professional I know has Professional Edition at home.
I have Home at home and as far as I can tell, Hyper-V is the only reason I would ever want to get Professional.
And since Hyper-V breaks a lot of other virtualization software, I've decided to go the route of "use Hyper-V in a VM with a free Windows 10 Enterprise image from Microsoft".
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@ben_lubar why would anyone buy windows pro for it, instead of simply using VMware or virtualbox?
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@sockpuppet7 said in Docker wankery:
@ben_lubar why would anyone buy windows pro for it, instead of simply using VMware or virtualbox?
Why would anyone buy Windows Pro for it instead of downloading a Windows 10 Pro image for free from Microsoft?
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@ben_lubar Those are vm images. You're not making sense.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Docker wankery:
@ben_lubar Those are vm images. You're not making sense.
Perhaps because in order to run Windows Server in a VM legally, you must own a license for Windows Server?
And the licensing for Windows Docker containers is different?
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@ben_lubar if you can put windows pro in a VM you already found a way to run VMs, and you don't need it.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Docker wankery:
@ben_lubar if you can put windows pro in a VM you already found a way to run VMs, and you don't need it.
Sure, if you don't care about licensing and you aren't trying to support customers who are using Docker on Windows, you can ignore everything in this thread.
why are you here
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@ben_lubar said in Docker wankery:
why are you here
I'm not here. I'm typing this over the internet.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Docker wankery:
@ben_lubar said in Docker wankery:
why are you here
I'm not here. I'm typing this over the internet.
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@ben_lubar The post was coming from inside the house!
