I hate printers, with a passion

HardwareGeek

their network printers had gone missing after updating to the Windows 11 22H2 feature update. When they tried to manually add back the printers, they were greeted with a "0x00000bc4" error code

Microsoft is helping. They're helping you avoid the horror of having to use a printer.

Tsaukpaetra

Status: I used Microsoft Word and its mail merge feature to create a set of labels. That was easy enough.

Come time to print them, I wanted to do a test run and print just one sheet on a not-actually labels piece of paper.

So I tell it to print page 1.

Guess what didn't happen?

....

It complained that the page margins were kinda small.

Keep in mind that this is from the wizard FROM MICROSOFT. I Shit you not.

Anyways, i click the "fuck off I know what I'm doing" button and.... Get prompted again about the margins. um, I already told you to continue, what the crap are you on about?!

Cue three more repeats and I realize it's sending all 30 pages to the printer spool!

Stupid cow fucker I said one page and one page only! What the hell is wrong with you!

The printer itself dutifully started spilling out pages which I promptly cancelled.

So I guess it's not the printer's fault, but fuck, is it really so hard to figure this Shit out?

Oh, I also downloaded the template from Avery. That worked just fine without complaining about margins, but I couldn't figure out how to get the mail merge working with more than one page on it.

Parody

@BernieTheBernie said in I hate printers, with a passion:

The never ending story of Windows updates fucking Printers just received another chapter:

Printer issues are back at it on Windows 11 22H2 as well

Microsoft has been suffering from almost constant printer issues on Windows 11 ever since the OS was introduced last year. And now, reports of similar issues are starting to pop up on 22H2 as well.

I had this come up as a compatibility hold. Apparently when I built this machine it saw our network printer and added it using the universal driver. When I went and installed the full driver and software it didn't bother to remove the universal one. I deleted that and the hold disappeared, but Windows has yet to decide to install 22H2.

Arantor

Good to see Windows doing its part to kill the pit of vipers industry that is the printer manufacturers.

Gurth

I need to vent a bit, and this thread is the best place I know for it …

Tomorrow will be the first time in over two and a half years that I will actually be playing an RPG again. We’ll be making characters, so I need to print out some character sheets for it — no problem, I’ll do that today so I won’t end up swearing at the printer when I should be underway to the place where we’ll be playing.

I need three (and want four, to have a spare) copies of a multi-page sheet, which I need to print in a couple of steps because I don’t need all the pages and, well, to avoid wasting tons of paper and toner on the inevitable jams that it will then try to redo from start.

First I tried printing on 160-gram paper for durability. After several tries regarding how best to put the paper in (which side up and which way round) so it would actually feed, I managed to get one, one-sided sheet out of it. Then the printer refused to take any more of those from its tray, or to print on the back of that one sheet when I put it into the sheet feeder.

So, 80-gram paper back into the tray and try again. First with one sheet, for safety, and lo and behold, that came out fine, double-sided, no errors or jams. Do it again, three copies now please … at which point the paper jammed so deep inside the printer that I had to open all of its lids and still ended up tearing the paper in order to get it out, half of it folded into a harmonica shape.

Right. Close everything up again, put the paper back in (but upside down), and … another, similar jam. Clear that, paper back in (but the other way around) and … another, similar jam. By now it seems like all it wants to do, is either not take the paper from the tray at all, or jam badly when it does get hold of a sheet.

By now I’ve spent over half an hour on this and the motherfucking printer has so far supplied me with all of two double-sided sheets, and at least twice that in mangled ones that I put in the waste-paper box. At this rate I still won’t be able to get to the game in time, as I only have about 23 hours left …

Gurth

Around an hour later

I gave it two more tries, in both of which the printer ate the paper, so I said: fuck you and your shit, I’ll see about printing this elsewhere. That resulted in me heading to the museum I do volunteer work for, as they have a nice, big colour laser printer so I could have full-colour character sheets with which to wow the other players. Put the PDF onto a USB stick, ride my bike there, and about 15 minutes later in the museum’s office …

… motherfucking Windows tells me the fucking stick needs to be goddamned formatted before it can be fucking used!

To say I was pissed was an understatement.

there is, of course, me: I had grabbed the first USB stick I found, and totally forgot (in my frustration and desire to get this printed) to check what it was formatted as — which turned out to be HFS+ … But another here is fucking Microsoft, because it’s not like you would never, ever encounter HFS+-formatted drives in the real world.

Which means I had a 20-minute bike ride back home (bloody wind) so I can type this and mail the document to the museum. And, of course, another 15+20-minute ride very soon :(

Arantor

@Gurth Microsoft gives no shits about your non Microsoft file systems. (Seriously, does it even read ext-anything, let alone newer ones?)

Gribnit

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

And, of course, another 15+20-minute ride very soon :(

Hopefully before the wind cha... oh, there it goes.

Gribnit

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Gurth Microsoft gives no shits about your non Microsoft file systems. (Seriously, does it even read ext-anything, let alone newer ones?)

Well they may be GPL-infected.

Arantor

@Gribnit There's nothing stopping MS shipping a driver for HFS or ext-whatever as long as the code isn’t taken from the GPL licensed code - just reading the data off a device should be fine.

SirTwist

@Arantor Except then the EU will mandate a filesystem driver ballot and require them to bundle the GPL driver and Paragon's driver and let the user choose which one they want to use.

TwelveBaud

@Arantor They want to "leave room for" companies like Paragon Software. Because why deliver a first-class experience when someone else can deliver a buggy, crashy one instead?

BernieTheBernie

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

Seriously, does it even read ext-anything

There are some free utilities available. It's too many years in the past that I used one of them, so I cannot give a state-of-the-art answer.

topspin

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

I need to vent a bit

and this thread is the best place I know for it

topspin

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Gribnit There's nothing stopping MS shipping a driver for HFS or ext-whatever as long as the code isn’t taken from the GPL licensed code - just reading the data off a device should be fine.

It's not like they can't support other file systems, they actively do not want to. Not supporting anything else is a lock-in advantage to them.

The only way to format something that's universally readable is to use some version of FAT, for which Microsoft has patents on (even though that shit could've been designed by a 5 year old) and rakes in license fees from everyone. And since the original was such complete garbage, they got around the patent expiring by having patents on ex-FAT, i.e. the exact same shit but now supports files > 2GB.

dkf

@topspin said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Gribnit There's nothing stopping MS shipping a driver for HFS or ext-whatever as long as the code isn’t taken from the GPL licensed code - just reading the data off a device should be fine.

It's not like they can't support other file systems, they actively do not want to. Not supporting anything else is a lock-in advantage to them.

The only way to format something that's universally readable is to use some version of FAT, for which Microsoft has patents on (even though that shit could've been designed by a 5 year old) and rakes in license fees from everyone. And since the original was such complete garbage, they got around the patent expiring by having patents on ex-FAT, i.e. the exact same shit but now supports files > 2GB.

Hmm, despite the filesystem being from 2006, the key patents are from quite a bit later. That's surprising.

Gurth

@Gribnit said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

And, of course, another 15+20-minute ride very soon :(

Hopefully before the wind cha... oh, there it goes.

I wish … then at least you could wait for it to change in the right direction and then go to where you need to. However, in the Netherlands, the wind tends to come from one direction all day (or all week, or even all month).

Anyway, I finally did get my printed character sheets — about 3 hours and 15 minutes after I started, and even the attempt that actually worked, wasn’t trouble-free. It turns out that the PDF has some kind of fault in it that caused Adobe Reader to choke on one of the pages and refuse to print it, but it did print all the others just fine. So, turn that one page into a bitmap, because it displays perfectly on screen, and print that, right?

Apparently, to be able to export a file to another format from Adobe Reader, requires you to log into Adobe Creative Cloud … Different solution: “Google, windows export pdf to png” and that produced a hit for some freeware program on the Windows app store that could do just that. Fine, install. This got me a file with resolution so shitty that the letters in my document looked like the IBM EGA font. No options for resolution, but one to export at a different scale, so try that at max (200%). This was at least acceptable, if not totally sharp, so let’s roll with that. (For comparison, how to turn a PDF page into a bitmap on a Mac: open PDF in Preview, drag the page you want to the desktop, double-click that to open it in Preview too, then choose File > Export and pick a bitmap format — which lets you choose the DPI you would like for it as well.)

Now all I needed to do was somehow print it using those fucking toy programs you apparently get from Microsoft … First it opened the image in some photo viewer that seemed to think I was printing, well, a photograph and gave me no options at all on how to, except for paper size.

Right-click in the Explorer, open with … WTF is that? Oh, OK, open with something called Paint 3D. I eventually managed to print the page as many times as needed with that, but who on earth thought it has a useful menu design? I had to search to even find the menu, and navigating through the advanced print options to find the one you need is a total joke.

Gribnit

@Gurth I wonder if GhostScript can still render PDFs

Arantor

@Gribnit it can but who wants the Affero GPL on them?

boomzilla

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Gurth Microsoft gives no shits about your non Microsoft file systems. (Seriously, does it even read ext-anything, let alone newer ones?)

Seems like at least WSL should be able to do that, right?

Arantor

@boomzilla seems it's a thing since WSL2 that you can actually mount Linux disks directly - but that's still a 2020 thing rather than any previous decade.

And no love for fruity disk.

boomzilla

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

And no love for fruity disk.

Who can blame them?

Arantor

@boomzilla said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

And no love for fruity disk.

Who can blame them?

Works the other way though; fruity computers can read/write Windows disks.

dcon

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@boomzilla said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

And no love for fruity disk.

Who can blame them?

Works the other way though; fruity computers can read/write Windows disks.

Not NTFS ones. At least not last time I tried. (I think it could read, but not write)

Arantor

@dcon Well, my MacBook in 2012 that was Boot Camp'd was definitely able to write to the Windows side, but I couldn't tell you what I'd installed that on.

I believe going that far back you needed FAT32 partitions but newer docs on Boot Camp don't mention this requirement so maybe they do have support for NTFS somehow.

dcon

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@dcon Well, my MacBook in 2012 that was Boot Camp'd was definitely able to write to the Windows side, but I couldn't tell you what I'd installed that on.

I believe going that far back you needed FAT32 partitions but newer docs on Boot Camp don't mention this requirement so maybe they do have support for NTFS somehow.

I tried plugging in a USB drive to my 2012 MacBook (it still works! Tho really slowly.) that was NTFS (no Boot Camp). I remember needing to reformat that to FAT32. (Not sure why it wasn't already, but CRS kicks in there)

Arantor

@dcon I've been safely Mac free in my personal life since 2016 and only touch a Mac for work where everything is a Mac so no interop issues there.

dcon

@Arantor said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@dcon I've been safely Mac free in my personal life since 2016

I just have to make sure some open source stuff I wrote (mostly) works there. So thankfully, I don't have to turn it on too often!

Gurth

@dcon said in I hate printers, with a passion:

fruity computers can read/write Windows disks.

Not NTFS ones. At least not last time I tried. (I think it could read, but not write)

NTFS is supported read-only out of the box on macOS, you need some additional software for read-write access. IIRC there used to be an Apple-provided, but hidden, R/W driver that was disabled by default, and which you could enable at your own risk, but I think that got removed many versions ago.

Tsaukpaetra

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

how best to put the paper in (which side up and which way round)

Tsaukpaetra

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

here is fucking Microsoft

Want to see another sign of monopoly? Who has to be blessed to read arbitrary media.

Tsaukpaetra

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

it’s not like you would never, ever encounter HFS+-formatted drives in the real world.

I have encountered literally one other HFS formatted drive in the world.

I have yet to be able to return the drive to the owner, despite knowing their address, name, and phone number.

They simply don't want it back.

Tsaukpaetra

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

First it opened the image in some photo viewer that seemed to think I was printing, well, a photograph and gave me no options at all on how to, except for paper size.

What were you expecting? Wrong answers only.

Parody

@topspin said in I hate printers, with a passion:

The only way to format something that's universally readable is to use some version of FAT, for which Microsoft has patents on (even though that shit could've been designed by a 5 year old) and rakes in license fees from everyone. And since the original was such complete garbage, they got around the patent expiring by having patents on ex-FAT, i.e. the exact same shit but now supports files > 2GB.

Microsoft gave its exFAT related patents to the Open Invention Network in 2019 after opening the specification a year earlier. I doubt that prevents them from licensing something to companies if the companies want to give them money, but you shouldn't have to if you just want to read and write the file system.

Parody

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

Anyway, I finally did get my printed character sheets — about 3 hours and 15 minutes after I started, and even the attempt that actually worked, wasn’t trouble-free. It turns out that the PDF has some kind of fault in it that caused Adobe Reader to choke on one of the pages and refuse to print it, but it did print all the others just fine. So, turn that one page into a bitmap, because it displays perfectly on screen, and print that, right?

I would have tried downloading it again first. Second would be opening and printing from another PDF viewer. The browsers are popular ones nowadays, to the point where Edge is the default PDF viewer on Windows 10 and 11.

Apparently, to be able to export a file to another format from Adobe Reader, requires you to log into Adobe Creative Cloud …

Yup, they've charged for those features for a long time. I'm glad I have a perpetual license for Actual Acrobat from the days when I was making PDF forms all the time. Unfortunately, that means I don't have a good recommendation for a native PDF viewer/editor. The couple of other PDF programs I've used (like SumatraPDF) don't do exports either.

FWIW, I like putting my character sheets in sheet protectors so I can write on them all I want. I usually use character generators that don't output fancy character sheets, though.

hungrier

@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:

The couple of other PDF programs I've used (like SumatraPDF) don't do exports either.

It could still have been a valid solution to the problem of Adobe Reader refusing to print some page, unless the page was broken cross-platform

Arantor

These days, browsers are somewhat de facto PDF viewers by way of pdf.js...

Gurth

@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:

I would have tried downloading it again first.

Good idea, except that I would have needed to go home again, export an InDesign file to PDF again, and then go back to where the printer is again to see if this fixed the problem. (Repeat if not …?)

Yup, they've charged for those features for a long time.

Like I said, it wouldn’t have been a problem at all had I had these issues at home. But when you’re forced to work with someone else’s, unfamiliar tools, things get complicated fast when stuff goes wrong — or even just does something unexpected.

Unfortunately, that means I don't have a good recommendation for a native PDF viewer/editor.

I’m perfectly happy with macOS Preview for my own use, coupled with the odd quick Automator workflow for things that would be too laborious to do by hand. Especially now I’ve found out that Adobe feels that what I think of as basic functionality, is an optional extra that you need to pay for.

FWIW, I like putting my character sheets in sheet protectors so I can write on them all I want.

I prefer to keep old sheets, I don’t want people to erase them when they’re done just to recycle the paper. To solve the problem of wearing through parts of the sheet that change a lot, I apply some writable tape to areas where things get erased and rewritten often.

Parody

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:

I would have tried downloading it again first.

Good idea, except that I would have needed to go home again, export an InDesign file to PDF again, and then go back to where the printer is again to see if this fixed the problem. (Repeat if not …?)

They're distributing InDesign files instead of PDFs? Weird. Or is this something you made? If so, I missed that, sorry.

FWIW, I like putting my character sheets in sheet protectors so I can write on them all I want.

I prefer to keep old sheets, I don’t want people to erase them when they’re done just to recycle the paper. To solve the problem of wearing through parts of the sheet that change a lot, I apply some writable tape to areas where things get erased and rewritten often.

I keep old versions of the files created by the character generator, making new ones every level (or whatever). The sheet protectors serve the same purpose as your tape.

Gurth

@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:

They're distributing InDesign files instead of PDFs? Weird. Or is this something you made? If so, I missed that, sorry.

I was trying to say, in a roundabout way, that it was a sheet I had made myself, so downloading it again to fix the PDF was not an option.

I keep old versions of the files created by the character generator, making new ones every level (or whatever).

I want to keep the paper sheets — I’ve got a stack of them about 30 cm high …

Gribnit

@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:

I want to keep the paper sheets — I’ve got a stack of them about 30 cm high …

Well, I mean, of course, being so close to having a 35 cm stack and all.

Applied Mediocrity

@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:

They simply don't want it back.

They know where it's been

Tsaukpaetra

Status: fucking printers!

Tsaukpaetra

@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:

printers

Context: adding a managed Canon multi-function printer using the default Windows Add-a-printer wizard fails successfully when the admin did not specify a name for it.