Bethesda dealing with Fallout
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@dfdub as far as you know.
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@dfdub As far as I see, the only real solution to this is to have human moderators responding to complaints about cheaters (costs money, of course!) coupled with a moderate barrier to making new accounts - like, linking it to a telephone number, though only needed if you're using the multiplayer part of a free-to-play game.
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@Rhywden that's pretty much what Valve is doing right now. Except they're using AI for detecting cheaters (the only thing that surprises me is that it took them so long to figure it out - 99% of cheaters are so obvious you don't even need neural network to detect these patterns.)
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Update is live removing Denuvo, except you've got to remove it yourself.
Removed Denuvo Anti-Cheat integration
Use Windows add/remove programs to uninstall Denuvo Anti-Cheat
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It says "required" but it really means "optional". If you click Play it launches as normal.
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A company known for broken updates acquires a company known for buggy software. What could possibly go wrong?
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@Zerosquare I showed this to my wife. She suggested that maybe they did it because they want ESO, to get into the MMO market. Possibly to compete with Amazon's upcoming New World.
No idea if there's any truth to that, but it's an interesting idea.
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@Zerosquare said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
If they released ES6 as an XBox exclusive, I'd have to get one. But I don't think they will do either of those things.
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@error said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
If they released ES6 as an XBox exclusive, I'd have to get one.
Yeah, I'd like to see Javascript become an XBox exclusive, too.
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@Zerosquare FWIW I have much more faith in Microsoft Games/XBOX/Whatever the fuck then I do in Bethesda. MS Games actually makes pretty decent stuff...
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@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
MS Games actually makes pretty decent stuff...
...with indecent hardware requirements. They're directly responsible for one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020 - "but can it run Flight Simulator?"
How the everloving fuck did Flight Simulator become the ultimate performance benchmark!?
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@Rhywden Right... Skyrim for Business, anyone?
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@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
MS Games actually makes pretty decent stuff...
...with indecent hardware requirements. They're directly responsible for one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020 - "but can it run Flight Simulator?"
How the everloving fuck did Flight Simulator become the ultimate performance benchmark!?
We really need a new Crysis that pushes the boundaries so hard that it'll take a decade for a normal PC to run it at high settings at anything resembling a moving interface. It's been too long since any developer actually did something like that.
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@Carnage funny you say that - Crytek is literally working right as we speak on a new Crysis that pushes the boundaries so hard that it'll take a decade for a normal PC to run it. They even named the highest graphics settings "can it run Crysis?"!
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@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Zerosquare FWIW I have much more faith in Microsoft Games/XBOX/Whatever the fuck then I do in Bethesda. MS Games actually makes pretty decent stuff...
Sure, if you're not into replaying old games after a while. Fable 3 for PC is gone for good since beginning this year, just like any and every game that ever had Games for Windows Live integration.
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@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
Games for Windows Live
Which was last updated in 2014 (6 years ago) and launched in 2007 (13 years)?
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@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
Games for Windows Live
Which was last updated in 2014 (6 years ago) and launched in 2007 (13 years)?
And the last games to use it were launched in 2012. Are you arguing for or against?
Edit:
P.S.
Games that used GfWL were still sold on digital marketplaces like Steam last year, I think.
IIRC, I bought Fable 3 some 4 years ago, and Flatout something-or-other 2 years ago.
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@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
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We need games with high requirements to justify buying a RTX 3090.
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@error Prostetnic e-peens don't need justification!
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@hungrier said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
But Flight Simulator?
Let me repeat.
Flight.
Simulator.
Is the new performance benchmark.
You may not be aware of it, but this franchise has a 30+ year history of running on every toaster and potato you can find. And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
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@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
Turn down the draw distance.
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@dkf over my dead body!
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@dkf said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
Turn down the draw distance.
No need to see anything further than a kilometer away?
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@PleegWat Yeah, exactly. Just pretend that it's a very cloudy/foggy day. Rendering all the displays for instrument flying can't be that hard, they ain't got no RTX 3090s in the real planes either.
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@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
Games for Windows Live
Which was last updated in 2014 (6 years ago) and launched in 2007 (13 years)?
And the last games to use it were launched in 2012. Are you arguing for or against?
Edit:
P.S.
Games that used GfWL were still sold on digital marketplaces like Steam last year, I think.
IIRC, I bought Fable 3 some 4 years ago, and Flatout something-or-other 2 years ago.If they were being sold on Steam, that's on them... GfWL shut down in like mid 2014.
Of course you can find no-gfwl patches out there, even for like Fable 3, and that makes it work again, just without online play...
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@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
without online play
So, even better than the original.
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@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@sloosecannon said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
Games for Windows Live
Which was last updated in 2014 (6 years ago) and launched in 2007 (13 years)?
And the last games to use it were launched in 2012. Are you arguing for or against?
Edit:
P.S.
Games that used GfWL were still sold on digital marketplaces like Steam last year, I think.
IIRC, I bought Fable 3 some 4 years ago, and Flatout something-or-other 2 years ago.If they were being sold on Steam, that's on them... GfWL shut down in like mid 2014.
Steam is a marketplace, in every meaning of the word that dodges responsibility. But to be fair, I do think it's up to the publisher to stop selling things that don't work.
GfWL stopped being included in new games, but few publishers cared enough to rip it out of existing ones. The GfWL servers werer still up and runnign until this year, so is the point, since everything still kinda worked. Until now.Of course you can find no-gfwl patches out there, even for like Fable 3, and that makes it work again, just without online play...
Thanks for the tip. I didn't know Fable 3 had one.
...Is anyone else bothered by the fact that we're relying on a random hobbyist's hack, to access entertainment that we paid full value for, purchased less than a decade ago?
No? Okay, I guess it's just me then.
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@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@hungrier said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
But Flight Simulator?
Let me repeat.
Flight.
Simulator.
Is the new performance benchmark.
You may not be aware of it, but this franchise has a 30+ year history of running on every toaster and potato you can find. And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
What? I distinctly remember that it used to be the performance benchmark in 1980s and early 1990s!
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@hungrier said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
But Flight Simulator?
Let me repeat.
Flight.
Simulator.
Is the new performance benchmark.
You may not be aware of it, but this franchise has a 30+ year history of running on every toaster and potato you can find. And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
What? I distinctly remember that it used to be the performance benchmark in 1980s and early 1990s!
As I recall, the early versions were a PC compatibility benchmark (together with Lotus 1-2-3).
I've been with the series since MSFS 3.0, I guess, and I can most definitely assure everyone that while you could certainly run (some) early versions on toasters and potatoes, you most assuredly wouldn't be running it on max graphical/worldsim settings with no performance issues.
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@GOG Nonsense. It ran very well on that Youtube I watched. It was some gesticulating slime mold "reviewing" (like & subscribe guise) the entire Flight Simulator history despite being in his late twenties at best. [Sure, skip this ad, just like you skipped... yayaya]. But it ran very well.
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@Applied-Mediocrity Which version are you talking about?
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@GOG Okay, I appears I forgot my
:tro:
again. Anyway, hell if I know. I didn't actually watch it. Let's see if I can find it.Although the "entire" should be a clue that the little hipster chum wasn't playing all of them (or rather, any except the X) himself and just stole a bunch of gameplay videos from elsewhere.
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@Applied-Mediocrity I'm not sure even a
:tro:
helps you here, mate.If you go back far enough, the concepts of "toaster" and "potato" stop making sense, because it's not like you have much leeway in your build - your PC is either IBM compatible or it isn't (and MSFS was one way of testing this).
Moving on a bit, how do you evaluate: "Yeah, it will generally run on a 386DX with 2MB of memory, but you really want a 486DX2 66Mhz with 8MB RAM. Oh, and you'll want an SVGA card, too." (Specs pulled out of my hat, but those are the sorts of considerations you'd have in early-to-mid 90s.) It's kind of like what we have now, but back then it felt a bit like a 386 and a 486 were fundamentally different machines (not least because of the price differential).
Funnily enough, the graphics themselves were never that big an issue, as I recall. If performance was flagging, the first place you'd look was weather and traffic settings.
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@GOG Oh hell, don't you get all now. I actually agree with you! As far as I'm able. What I wanted to say was that there is no substitute for having experienced those times. No video can show all the early PC and DOS fuckery, autoexec.bat, himem.sys, yada-yada.
I don't have anything concrete to say about the Flight Simulator itself
It's pretty cool, I guess.
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@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@hungrier said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
But Flight Simulator?
Let me repeat.
Flight.
Simulator.
Is the new performance benchmark.
You may not be aware of it, but this franchise has a 30+ year history of running on every toaster and potato you can find. And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
What? I distinctly remember that it used to be the performance benchmark in 1980s and early 1990s!
As I recall, the early versions were a PC compatibility benchmark (together with Lotus 1-2-3).
I've been with the series since MSFS 3.0, I guess, and I can most definitely assure everyone that while you could certainly run (some) early versions on toasters and potatoes, you most assuredly wouldn't be running it on max graphical/worldsim settings with no performance issues.
Admittedly, my only experience with MSFS was 2002, but it run flawlessly on GeForce 4 MX, which was just a step above a potato. Don't remember the exact settings I used, though.
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@Applied-Mediocrity Yeah, the only realistic video rendition would be for the guy to actually sit down in front of a physical machine and go through the whole "how do I get a couple of extra K of base memory" dance.
Also, when you TDWTF, TDWTF you...
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@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Applied-Mediocrity Yeah, the only realistic video rendition would be for the guy to actually sit down
Too much effort. Instead watch my reactions to cat videos!
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@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Kamil-Podlesak said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@hungrier said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Gąska said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
one of the most 2020 things that happened in all 2020
Out of everything that's happened this year, "new game has high requirements" is the closest we have to normalcy
But Flight Simulator?
Let me repeat.
Flight.
Simulator.
Is the new performance benchmark.
You may not be aware of it, but this franchise has a 30+ year history of running on every toaster and potato you can find. And now a $1200 GPU struggles to get it running at 60FPS!
What? I distinctly remember that it used to be the performance benchmark in 1980s and early 1990s!
As I recall, the early versions were a PC compatibility benchmark (together with Lotus 1-2-3).
I've been with the series since MSFS 3.0, I guess, and I can most definitely assure everyone that while you could certainly run (some) early versions on toasters and potatoes, you most assuredly wouldn't be running it on max graphical/worldsim settings with no performance issues.
Admittedly, my only experience with MSFS was 2002, but it run flawlessly on GeForce 4 MX, which was just a step above a potato. Don't remember the exact settings I used, though.
As mentioned above, graphics usually weren't that big an issue on MSFS. Running the worldsim was and that was done on the CPU.
Graphics could become an issue with very dense scenery, but that is both a matter of settings and actual flights.
That said, I'm running MSFS 2020 on my decently specced, but 4-year-old, machine with settings cranked and not usually experiencing any problems.
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@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@Applied-Mediocrity Yeah, the only realistic video rendition would be for the guy to actually sit down in front of a physical machine and go through the whole "how do I get a couple of extra K of base memory" dance.
Are you sure that such a game does not exist yet? Sounds like something you could find it somewhere deep in the bowels of Steam Store. Probably with a goat instead of a human guy, though.
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@Kamil-Podlesak Meh. I know PC Building Simulator exists. May be a DLC?
The interesting thing is that there are still maniacs out there who do muck around in the old machines. Hell, I still sometimes hear the distant call of the Z80.
Those were better days...
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@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
The interesting thing is that there are still maniacs out there who do muck around in the old machines.
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@GOG said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
there are still maniacs out there who do muck around in the old machines.
There are also maniacs out there who muck around with trying to run things on ridiculously under-specced modern potatoes. Hi, @Tsaukpaetra !
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@acrow said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that we're relying on a random hobbyist's hack, to access entertainment that we paid full value for, purchased less than a decade ago?
Here's Sony's legal defense for the class action lawsuit against them for pulling OtherOS from PS3:
Well, Your Honor, a manufacturer's
obligation for anything having to do with a product itself is
only defined by its express warranty, its express promises.If SCEA, Sony, had said, "We guarantee that the other
OS function would be supported," if they said, "We guarantee
PlayStation Network access will always be available," anything
about the duration, plaintiffs might have an argument.The only thing that Sony told anyone about the
duration of any feature of the PS3 is what it said in the one
year express limited hardware warranty. It said "one year."
And as the Daughtery case, as the Bardin case, and as
subsequent federal court authorities have noted, where
something arises after the duration of that promised one year,
the purchaser can have no expectation.So, Your Honor, if the purchaser can have no
expectation of the PlayStation 3 functioning at all after the
expiration of that one-year warranty, how can it somehow have a
greater expectation about the availability of one feature?If SCEA cannot have liability under California law
for the PS3 completely failing to perform after one year, how
can it have liability for the fact that it does 99 percent of
what it was advertised to do, and just not one?That is completely irrational and cannot be
reconciled with existing California law.(Sony are, of course, rat bastards.)
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@error said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
That is completely irrational and cannot be
reconciled with existing California law.Isn't "completely irrational" the defining feature of existing California law?
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@HardwareGeek Math.Ceiling(.Uptime) * 100 --> 100
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Bethesda dealing with Fallout:
@HardwareGeek Math.Ceiling(.Uptime) * 100 --> 100
but that's true for uptime (0,1].