WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@heterodox I wouldn't be surprised if even AMD64 Macs weren't fully compatible with PC standards.
I seem to recall their UEFI implementation is special-.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Using ML in addition to QA is a Good Idea™. Using ML as a replacement for QA is a Bad Idea™.
Worse than using neither?
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@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
can in fact run Windows too
Not any more!
(once they switch to ARM)
INB4 Windows On Arm making a triumphant return.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Using ML in addition to QA is a Good Idea™. Using ML as a replacement for QA is a Bad Idea™.
Worse than using neither?
Sorry, I don't consider "hey, it's better than nothing" to be an acceptable level of quality for a major software company. Especially when the same company used to have significantly higher standards.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If only there was a way to make sure things worked before releasing them, instead of relying on guesses... we could call it Quality Assurance, or something like that...
Yeah I know, that's science-fiction.
The problem for Microsoft, especially for Windows, is the immense variety of weird combinations of goofy stuff that people have, especially given the ... erratic QA of many of the drivers published by the people who make the hardware. It means that getting enough coverage of these combinations is painfully expensive and, ultimately futile.
Case in point, my own experience with BSODs in Win10 2004.
- With HP's "Omen Control Center" (manages various aspects of Omen mice) installed, no problem.
- With Kaspersky Total Internet Security 2019 (or 2020) installed, no problem.
- With both installed, regular BSODs.
- Maybe it's actually the combination of them and Logitech's G-series keyboard software that is the culprit.
The key lesson on software QA is that you can't test everything, and Windows QA falls foul of that because Joe Public's arrary of combinations covers a very large fraction of "everything".
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@Steve_The_Cynic It could be the HP software doing something funky with Kaspersky.
There was an issue with their pen driver on one of the models we had that broke Dropbox until you installed the latest pen driver, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
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@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic It could be the HP software doing something funky with Kaspersky.
There was an issue with their pen driver on one of the models we had that broke Dropbox until you installed the latest pen driver, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
When in doubt, blame the AV. There’s not a single one that doesn’t do shady shit breaking stuff.
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@topspin True, and it is Kaspersky who seem to enjoy doing terrible things, like the Endpoint products that would try and out Symantec Symantec or the Safe Money component that did such a good job of protecting your money, it prevented you from spending it online.
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@Steve_The_Cynic No, sir. What you've described is a reason, not an excuse. Everybody here understands the reason. Some of us just don't subscribe to the generally accepted notion that it's the end user who should take care of the bucket.
The cat's out of the bag and long gone now, but it was the trillion dollar mistake that software was allowed not to be covered by the same sort of consumer warranty that applies to most other traded goods.
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@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic It could be the HP software doing something funky with Kaspersky.
There was an issue with their pen driver on one of the models we had that broke Dropbox until you installed the latest pen driver, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
That wouldn't surprise me in the least. HP is definitely one for the category "How the mighty are fallen", although my printer (Color Laserjet Pro m252dw(1)) definitely comes from the "mighty" side of that rather than the "fallen" part.
(1) Good solid brick of a thing that's just a printer. HP's documentation claims "up to" 19 pages per minute in black-and-white or in colour, and it does double-sided printing automatically.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The problem for Microsoft, especially for Windows, is the immense variety of weird combinations of goofy stuff that people have, especially given the ... erratic QA of many of the drivers published by the people who make the hardware. It means that getting enough coverage of these combinations is painfully expensive and, ultimately futile.
I'd be much more sympathetic to this reasoning if Windows worked even on hardware Microsoft themselves has sold in the last 10 years.
MS Surface keeps getting borked by Windows 10 updates just like the rest of them. So they obviously don't test even on their own hardware.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Joe Public's arrary of combinations covers a very large fraction of "everything".
And then there's @Tsaukpaetra hardware. No way to test that for sure.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic It could be the HP software doing something funky with Kaspersky.
There was an issue with their pen driver on one of the models we had that broke Dropbox until you installed the latest pen driver, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
When in doubt, blame the AV. There’s not a single one that doesn’t do shady shit breaking stuff.
While true, in my experience when HP is involved it's their fault.
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Douglasac said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic It could be the HP software doing something funky with Kaspersky.
There was an issue with their pen driver on one of the models we had that broke Dropbox until you installed the latest pen driver, so it wouldn't be without precedent.
When in doubt, blame the AV. There’s not a single one that doesn’t do shady shit breaking stuff.
While true, in my experience when HP is involved it's their fault.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Using ML in addition to QA is a Good Idea™. Using ML as a replacement for QA is a Bad Idea™.
Worse than using neither?
Sorry, I don't consider "hey, it's better than nothing" to be an acceptable level of quality for a major software company. Especially when the same company used to have significantly higher standards.
Okay but even if neither option is sufficient, would you rather them use ML to predict compatibility issues, or nothing at all?
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Using ML in addition to QA is a Good Idea™. Using ML as a replacement for QA is a Bad Idea™.
Worse than using neither?
Sorry, I don't consider "hey, it's better than nothing" to be an acceptable level of quality for a major software company. Especially when the same company used to have significantly higher standards.
Okay but even if neither option is sufficient, would you rather them use ML to predict compatibility issues, or nothing at all?
Given their track record for Windows Update, I’m not too confident in their ML prediction.
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@topspin but are you more confident in their gut feeling than ML?
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin but are you more confident in their gut feeling than ML?
Let’s say I’d be more confident in a fair dice roll.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
With HP's "Omen Control Center"
That seems like a bad omen.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin but are you more confident in their gut feeling than ML?
Let’s say I’d be more confident in a fair dice roll.
@error_bot xkcd random number
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
With HP's "Omen Control Center"
That seems like a bad omen.
Explains one heck of a lot about 2020.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin but are you more confident in their gut feeling than ML?
Let’s say I’d be more confident in a fair dice roll.
Are we still talking about the feasability of ML for the task at hand or have you completely given up on that?
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Status: update 2004 still in perpetual borked state.
Installation starts every other day, fails at 61% and displays "something went wrong, but we will try again" .
Sure, knock yourself out.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin but are you more confident in their gut feeling than ML?
Let’s say I’d be more confident in a fair dice roll.
Are we still talking about the feasability of ML for the task at hand or have you completely given up on that?
I thought we’re trash talking MS.
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@topspin that's what I asked yesterday, and people said it's still about ML. And I'm taking it out on you because it was you who first said ML doesn't make sense in this case (which I disagree with completely, all other MS shittiness aside).
Edit: What I mean is, trash talk MS all you want, but do it for the right reasons. Stop doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not like you even have to try to find something absolutely batshit insane that MS does to hate them for.
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@acrow said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The problem for Microsoft, especially for Windows, is the immense variety of weird combinations of goofy stuff that people have, especially given the ... erratic QA of many of the drivers published by the people who make the hardware. It means that getting enough coverage of these combinations is painfully expensive and, ultimately futile.
I'd be much more sympathetic to this reasoning if Windows worked even on hardware Microsoft themselves has sold in the last 10 years.
MS Surface keeps getting borked by Windows 10 updates just like the rest of them. So they obviously don't test even on their own hardware.
MS Surface with nothing not-from-Microsoft connected? If that is the sort of thing we're talking about, then .
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic No, sir. What you've described is a reason, not an excuse. Everybody here understands the reason. Some of us just don't subscribe to the generally accepted notion that it's the end user who should take care of the bucket.
Then who should take care of the bucket, given the impossibility of testing all the combinations?
The cat's out of the bag and long gone now, but it was the trillion dollar mistake that software was allowed not to be covered by the same sort of consumer warranty that applies to most other traded goods.
And that mistake isn't Microsoft's fault, as such. I remember seeing that sort of flooflah long before Microsoft meant much of anything. Well, in fact, before (but not long before) PCs were even a thing.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
With HP's "Omen Control Center"
That seems like a bad omen.
Explains one heck of a lot about 2020.
Nothing explains anything about 2020.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin that's what I asked yesterday, and people said it's still about ML. And I'm taking it out on you because it was you who first said ML doesn't make sense in this case (which I disagree with completely, all other MS shittiness aside).
Edit: What I mean is, trash talk MS all you want, but do it for the right reasons. Stop doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not like you even have to try to find something absolutely batshit insane that MS does to hate them for.
ML, in the sense that people use the term, doesn't make sense in any context. My own company decided recently to wave this particular buzzword, and all that I had going through my head was ad nauseum.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin that's what I asked yesterday, and people said it's still about ML. And I'm taking it out on you because it was you who first said ML doesn't make sense in this case (which I disagree with completely, all other MS shittiness aside).
Edit: What I mean is, trash talk MS all you want, but do it for the right reasons. Stop doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not like you even have to try to find something absolutely batshit insane that MS does to hate them for.
Using ML, which a lot of the time (but not always) is overhyped buzzword garbage and almost always non-deterministic with idiotic edge case failures, for something you’d think “why don’t they just get it correct instead?” sounds ridiculous on the surface.
If it actually is ridiculous or not when you dig deeper isAlso, back to the MS bashing, even if it’s in fact a completely brilliant idea (of which I’m not convinced) they’d manage to come yup with a brillant implementation.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin that's what I asked yesterday, and people said it's still about ML. And I'm taking it out on you because it was you who first said ML doesn't make sense in this case (which I disagree with completely, all other MS shittiness aside).
Edit: What I mean is, trash talk MS all you want, but do it for the right reasons. Stop doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not like you even have to try to find something absolutely batshit insane that MS does to hate them for.
Using ML, which a lot of the time (but not always) is overhyped buzzword garbage and almost always non-deterministic with idiotic edge case failures, for something you’d think “why don’t they just get it correct instead?” sounds ridiculous on the surface.
If it actually is ridiculous or not when you dig deeper isI know that, which is why my posts weren't judgemental until you doubled down on that five times over. At this point, it's not just ignorance, it's willful ignorance.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin that's what I asked yesterday, and people said it's still about ML. And I'm taking it out on you because it was you who first said ML doesn't make sense in this case (which I disagree with completely, all other MS shittiness aside).
Edit: What I mean is, trash talk MS all you want, but do it for the right reasons. Stop doing it for the wrong reasons. It's not like you even have to try to find something absolutely batshit insane that MS does to hate them for.
ML, in the sense that people use the term, doesn't make sense in any context.
People, maybe. But engineers use it to mean the various methods of curve fitting over hundreds of different input variables, without having to figure out the exact algorithm beforehand. 99 times out of 100 it doesn't make sense to use, as it's very computationally expensive and the result is inferior to analytical methods, but there are a few kinds of problems where it's genuinely useful. Image recognition is the classic example, but deciding which of the millions upon millions of unique hardware configurations are safe-ish to update fits the ML characteristic quite well too.
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
"PC" is short for "PC-compatible computer".
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer. It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense. Which was a brilliant move by Apple and Microsoft as it basically made it seem like there were only 2 types of computers...those with Windows (PCs) and Macs...
As for software packaging yeah, there was a shift at some point where the terms "PC CD", "PC DVD" and "Mac" were started being used (creating a branding) instead of expecting people to read the minimum requirements section of the boxes which actually said Windows 2000, XP, blah, blah or Mac OS 10.2+ .... in which case "PC" still became a quick message to the buyer that the software was for Windows and not Mac OS. Before that software packaging generally had the operating system on it that it was designed for, ie: "MS-DOS", "Windows", "DR-DOS", "OS/2", etc, etc.
But yeah, "PC" has become a marketing term that doesn't mean what non-tech people think it means.
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@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer. It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense
That doesn't seem accurate. IBM was marketing their computers as PCs and clones were...PC clones. Did anyone call Amigas or Apples "PCs" back in the 80s? I don't remember that. PC very specifically seemed to refer to a computer running some sort of x86 architecture with DOS or Windows (depending on when you were talking about).
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer. It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense
That doesn't seem accurate. IBM was marketing their computers as PCs and clones were...PC clones. Did anyone call Amigas or Apples "PCs" back in the 80s? I don't remember that. PC very specifically seemed to refer to a computer running some sort of x86 architecture with DOS or Windows (depending on when you were talking about).
No...clones were either IBM compatible or Tandy compatible when IBM lost the home computer war of the 80s.
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@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
"PC" is short for "PC-compatible computer".
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer.
Has any business or research institution used the initialism PC to mean a personal computer before 1981, when IBM released IBM Personal Computer?
Has any business or research institution used the initialism PC after 1981 to mean a personal computer that's not IBM PC-compatible?
It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense. Which was a brilliant move by Apple and Microsoft as it basically made it seem like there were only 2 types of computers...those with Windows (PCs) and Macs...
I mean, they weren't really wrong...
But yeah, "PC" has become a marketing term that doesn't mean what non-tech people think it means.
Personally, I know exactly zero people (okay, one person including you) who refer to non-IBM-PC-compatible personal computers as PCs. Technical or not. So I'm really not seeing any mismatch between marketing, people, and reality.
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@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer. It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense
That doesn't seem accurate. IBM was marketing their computers as PCs and clones were...PC clones. Did anyone call Amigas or Apples "PCs" back in the 80s? I don't remember that. PC very specifically seemed to refer to a computer running some sort of x86 architecture with DOS or Windows (depending on when you were talking about).
No...clones were either IBM compatible or Tandy compatible when IBM lost the home computer war of the 80s.
No.
The use of the term "PC clone" to describe IBM PC compatible computers fell out of use in the 1990s; the class of machines it now describes are simply called PCs, but the early use of the term "clone" usually implied a higher level of compatibility with the original IBM PC than "PC-Compatible"
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Then who should take care of the bucket
It's the end users who will invariably have to. There is no other way. It's just that I feel - and it looks like you may not share that sentiment - it's developers who should be shamed incessantly, charged and sacked for fuckups that result into denial of service or loss of important data.
It's not the problem of passengers that a steam locomotive cannot go faster than, say, 200 km/h (inb4 finds some obscure proof that they can and did). It's a problem of practicality. Which is why engineers invent other sort of engines that can, while software industry has been building longer and taller carriages, and telling people to run between them to get where they were going whenever trains stop moving.
What I'm saying is that every time I hear about impossibility of testing and other external factors, it sounds like a very convenient excuse rather than a lament for the sorry state of the software industry.
And that mistake isn't Microsoft's fault, as such.
Well yes. That's what I mean when I say the opportunity is long gone. Reliability was an issue 50 years ago and it is still
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@CodeJunkie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
PC has always meant (p)ersonal (c)omputer. It wasn't until the mid 2000's when then the term was used in the whole PC vs Mac marketing nonsense
That doesn't seem accurate. IBM was marketing their computers as PCs and clones were...PC clones. Did anyone call Amigas or Apples "PCs" back in the 80s? I don't remember that. PC very specifically seemed to refer to a computer running some sort of x86 architecture with DOS or Windows (depending on when you were talking about).
I know as far back as the 90s, people would differentiate between "PCs" and "Macs"
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
People, maybe. But engineers
Are you saying engineers aren't people?!?
singing in the rain – [01:29..01:47] 01:47
— LPKvideoDesigns
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's not the problem of passengers that a steam locomotive cannot go faster than, say, 200 km/h (inb4 finds some obscure proof that they can and did).
It is historically significant as the holder of the world speed record for steam locomotives at 126 mph (203 km/h).
Happy to oblige, although the proof is not exactly obscure.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Happy to oblige, although the proof is not exactly obscure.
I'd say that you proved him correct, if anything. At least, you didn't prove him incorrect since he -proofed his language with an approximating qualifier.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Happy to oblige
People can
get a cheeseburger anywhere.wax philosophical about the leaking bucket anywhere. They come toChotchkie'sTDWTF for the atmosphere and the attitude.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'd say that you proved him correct, if anything.
If he hadn't done it, I would have…
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Then who should take care of the bucket
It's the end users who will invariably have to. There is no other way. It's just that I feel - and it looks like you may not share that sentiment - it's developers who should be shamed incessantly, charged and sacked for fuckups that result into denial of service or loss of important data.
There's a scale of things. If one guy on the planet has a failure that stops him using his PC, and everyone else, all the other hundreds of millions of Windows users sail along just fine, then the preponderance of evidence points the finger at his PC being a far-distant outlier, and no developers should be shamed (or worse) for missing that. If the antivirus signature update quarantines a common Windows component (say, to take an example that really happened - and more than once - the EXE containing the login prompt on Windows 2000) on any system that receives it, then whoever approved the release of the update deserves a good kicking.
It's not the problem of passengers that a steam locomotive cannot go faster than, say, 200 km/h (inb4 finds some obscure proof that they can and did). It's a problem of practicality. Which is why engineers invent other sort of engines that can, while software industry has been building longer and taller carriages, and telling people to run between them to get where they were going whenever trains stop moving.
As noted by others, the specific example is flawed, and I would say that the conclusion isn't exactly correct either, or at least not if you want to insist on pointing the Finger Of Blame exclusively at the developers and QA people.
What I'm saying is that every time I hear about impossibility of testing and other external factors, it sounds like a very convenient excuse rather than a lament for the sorry state of the software industry.
Tsk. What I said was that testing everything, every weird edge case that nobody's ever heard of, every single case in the middle, etc. is ... hmm ... I may have used the word "impossible", but what I really meant was "infeasible". It can be done, but not at a reasonable cost.
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Nobody is expecting 100% test coverage with complete success. We all know that would be unreasonable.
But despite the complexity of testing, we know it's possible to achieve a significantly higher level of quality in practice, because Microsoft itself used to do so. Right until they decided "QA is expensive, let's
go shoppingfire the testers and let the users find the bugs themselves".
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Nobody is expecting 100% test coverage with complete success. We all know that would be unreasonable.
But despite the complexity of testing, we know it's possible to achieve a significantly higher level of quality in practice, because Microsoft itself used to do so. Right until they decided "QA is expensive, let's
go shoppingfire the testers and let the users find the bugs themselves".They fired the testers and replaced them with
a small shell scriptautomated tests, and that was what really caused the problem in the first place!The old testers at Microsoft checked lots of things: they checked if fonts were consistent and legible, they checked that the location of controls on dialog boxes was reasonable and neatly aligned, they checked whether the screen flickered when you did things, they looked at how the UI flowed, they considered how easy the software was to use, how consistent the wording was, they worried about performance, they checked the spelling and grammar of all the error messages, and they spent a lot of time making sure that the user interface was consistent from one part of the product to another, because a consistent user interface is easier to use than an inconsistent one.
None of those things could be checked by automated scripts. And so one result of the new emphasis on automated testing was that the Vista release of Windows was extremely inconsistent and unpolished. Lots of obvious problems got through in the final product… none of which was a “bug” by the definition of the automated scripts, but every one of which contributed to the general feeling that Vista was a downgrade from XP. The geeky definition of quality won out over the suit’s definition; I’m sure the automated scripts for Windows Vista are running at 100% success right now at Microsoft, but it doesn’t help when just about every tech reviewer is advising people to stick with XP for as long as humanly possible. It turns out that nobody wrote the automated test to check if Vista provided users with a compelling reason to upgrade from XP.
-- Talk at Yale part 1, Joel Spolsky
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Current status as of July 22, 2020
Windows 10, version 2004 is available for users with devices running Windows 10, versions 1903 and 1909, who manually seek to “Check for updates” via Windows Update. We are now starting a new phase in our rollout. Using the machine learning-based (ML-based) training we have done so far, we are increasing the number of devices selected to update automatically to Windows 10, version 2004 that are approaching end of service. We will continue to train our machine learning through all phases to intelligently rollout new versions of Windows 10 and deliver a smooth update experience. The recommended servicing status is Semi-Annual Channel.
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin that part actually makes sense. They're making statistics on what kinds of problem what kinds of PC configurations have, calculate compatibility score based on this, make tiny patches to fix things, then deploy W10 to new computers that are predicted based on their spec to have high compatibility score. Machine learning is a perfect tool for that.
Machine learning seems a lazy and appalling fit for this task. An update will either fail or succeed and for a well-defined and explicable reason - there are no probabilistic vagaries involved and, if there's any hope of patching them, reasons-for-failure must be precisely understood, and therefore exactly testable for. The criteria for blocking an update are therefore going to be similarly well-defined.
In this context the whole 'machine learning' thing is marketing bullshit.
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@Zerosquare said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Nobody is expecting 100% test coverage with complete success. We all know that would be unreasonable.
In the hardware (chip) world, we expect pretty darn close. The exact threshold depends on the company (and project schedule, pressure from product marketing, and customer requirements; sometimes there's a hard deadline because a customer absolutely needs samples by $date or they'll choose a different vendor), but it's typically >98% test coverage, test pass rate in the high 90s, and any failures understood and explicitly waived, with a ticket to be fixed later if there are enough and/or severe enough errata to warrant spending a few million dollars on a new version of the chip.