How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!
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23,000 HTTPS certificates axed after CEO emails private keys
Flap that goes public renews troubling questions about issuance of certificates.
Starring:
- Trustico, a certificate reseller
- DigiCert, a Certification Authority
- Independent security researcherAct I:
Please revoke these thousands of certificates our clients have generated through our website.
Why should we listen to you, since you are not the actual owners of those certificates? Have they been compromised?
Here are the private keys for those certificates. Now revoke them dammit.
… okay, now they've been compromised. Initiating revocation procedures.Act II:
Ahem, 
, dear customers, your certificates will be revoked in 24 hours because reported them as compromised. Have a nice day.
What? How dare you? We did no such thing! We were compromised!Act III:
I can't validate my Domain certificate via , it just ends up sending weird curl requests to my server. Anyone got an idea whats wrong?
… I am speechless.
Oh bollocks. No more site for you.
I'm not sure which part is the worst or most entertaining:
- that the reseller had a "generate your private key and a matching certificate" page on their site in the first place
- that this page was utterly unsecured and passed user input, unsanitized, to a process running as root
- that they held on to customers' private keys after processing them
- that they pulled this stunt because they were changing partners from DigiCert to Comodo and thought this would help, somehow
Sources:
mozilla.dev.security.policy mailing list: "How do you handle mass revocation requests?"
@svblxyz on Twitter: https://twitter.com/svblxyz/status/969220402768736258
@Manawyrm on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Manawyrm/status/969230542578348033
Discussion on HackerNews: 1 2
Discussion on reddit: 1 2
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Holy hell! It looks like Bobby Tables is now doing security code!
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@dkf
Bobby Private Key then
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This was an entertaining enactment of a general theme:
- Clumsy company does something hilariously stupid because they skimped on involving or listening to professionals
- They cause widespread damage
- The news coverage includes commentary on the level of ineptitude that must have been at play
- Not-amused security researchers as well as interested individuals check out online offerings of the company
- Company services go offline
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@gleemonk and the inevitable point 4.5: as a result of point 4, the company's image goes from bad to worse. To paraphrase Hofstadter's Law:
it is always worse than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law
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And to think I just had this conversation with a TA (entity who signs off on certificate requests):
: "I see you've already sent the certificate request to the CA; typically we do that for you."
: "How would that work?"
: "You cancel your change request, submit a new one with the IPs and names of the servers, and we generate the certificate request, fill out all the approval forms, etc."
: "Yeah, no. I wrote up a new key management policy for the program recently; private keys will be generated by our SAs and will not leave their associated servers without EFS protection."
: "We won't be able to store and track these certificates for you that way!"
: "I don't see why you couldn't track them as the issued certificate is public, but either way, I'll live."The convenience of having someone else generate your certificate request is not worth giving up your private key.
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mozilla.dev.security.policy is usually a good source of
.I particularly liked the indignant statement from
”We didn’t authorize to email our customers!”
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@greybeard said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
I particularly liked the indignant statement from
”We didn’t authorize to email our customers!”Ok, so they did indicate "don't contact our subscribers, we'll contact them" for the usual situations, but the person behind that indignant reply really didn't understand that they had just pulled the emergency brake. That's not the usual situation, dammit!
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One small but not-insignificant part of Trustico's failure was having a system where they'd generate the CSR for you. In hindsight it's stupid and flaunts all kinds of security best practices, but it was done because the system itself is convoluted (by design!!) and not user friendly.
If I didn't have Let's Encrypt, how would I generate a cert?
- Google "linode ssl nginx" because I remember they have a nice SSL setup guide
- End up at the wrong page because I really meant to go here
- Find the bit where the CSR is generated
- Hope I remember that I should now change the bits parameter to 256 (or was it 512, I forget now) because 128 is bad?
- Execute, but then realize I forgot to ask the client all sorts of information about their company.
: Please state your company's Organizational Unit Name (eg, section)Boy, am I glad Let's Encrypt is around now. Now all I do is execute a command I saved somewhere in the company confluence.
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@julianlam said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
In hindsight it's stupid and
flauntsflouts all kinds of security best practices,FTFY
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@masonwheeler How embarrassing. Right!
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@julianlam Wow you and I actually agree on something.
Computer security guys simply do not get it. If stuff is hard to use, people don't use it. Period. If your super-secure best-practice technology (like PGP for emails) is hard to use, nobody will use it. They'll go decades without using it while you stand in the corner foaming at the mouth screaming "why doesn't anybody encrypt their emails!"
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@blakeyrat said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
(like PGP for emails) is hard to use, nobody will use it.
Is it hard to use? I don't know; I've never used it.
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@hardwaregeek said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Is it hard to use?
The answer to that is mu.
@hardwaregeek said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
I don't know; I've never used it.
Because nobody's ever used it.
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@blakeyrat I've seen many that were signed with PGP/GPG; it can't be much harder to encrypt. But nobody does, probably because how many recipients would know how to decrypt them?
Edit: Duh. Thinking about it, encrypting it would require knowing the recipient's public key, which would require that the recipient have a key. Since hardly anybody does, that makes encryption more difficult than signing.
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@blakeyrat said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@julianlam Wow you and I actually agree on something.
Computer security guys simply do not get it. If stuff is hard to use, people don't use it. Period. If your super-secure best-practice technology (like PGP for emails) is hard to use, nobody will use it. They'll go decades without using it while you stand in the corner foaming at the mouth screaming "why doesn't anybody encrypt their emails!"
Or, as one prominent poster on security.stackexchange.com put it,
Security at the expense of usability comes at the expense of security.
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When I was younger, I wanted to try this PGP email encryption thing. But younger me couldn't figure it out, so I gave up.
Not like I say many things that need encrypting, anyway, but that's besides the point
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@julianlam said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Not like I say many things that need encrypting
That's the main reason I've never bothered trying.
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@hardwaregeek That's actually one of the big arguments behind the "encrypt everything" movement: we should encrypt everything because we don't have much stuff that needs to be encrypted. This way, in a world of ubiquitous surveillance, stuff that's important doesn't stand out for special attention by virtue of being encrypted.
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@julianlam PGP was based on the "web of trust" idea. From the manual:
As time goes on, you will accumulate keys from other people that you may want to designate as trusted introducers. Everyone else will each choose their own trusted introducers. And everyone will gradually accumulate and distribute with their key a collection of certifying signatures from other people, with the expectation that anyone receiving it will trust at least one or two of the signatures. This will cause the emergence of a decentralized fault-tolerant web of confidence for all public keys.
This is an insanely stupid idea designed by crypto-nerds who are completely out of touch with what normal people want from their computers. No one wants to go around signing their friends' certificates and deciding whether Steve or Kevin are trustable enough to do the same. Heck, it barely even works in theory, outside of like 3 degrees of separation from yourself.
Encrypting and decrypting data is easy, deciding what certificate to encrypt for is the hard part, and PGP didn't solve that.
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@julianlam In a former job I had occasion to get a public cert, from pre-merger Thawte I believe. I had to try about three times, once because I left out the dot in the "Inc." in the organization name.
That's just complete idiocy on the part of the CA. They can put whatever they want in those fields of the cert; they don't need me to put them in the CSR. The only things that have to be correct in the CSR are the public key and the signature proving the submitter knows the corresponding private key. Maybe one identity field to complete the proof of holding the private key.
The rest they could have just fixed in post or prompted for through their website.
Hope I remember that I should now change the bits parameter to 256 (or was it 512, I forget now) because 128 is bad?
The RSA key size? Those are all seriously weak keys.
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@gąska said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Wow, all of these could describe me except for one.
And for the one that doesn't match me, we can replace it with this:
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@anonymous234 said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
No one wants to go around signing their friends' certificates and deciding whether Steve or Kevin are trustable enough to do the same.
The signature means "I am confident that the person with GPG key 0x018BAB45DB2D2B24 is the Ben Lubar I know in real life". It's not something that's hard to do. You could make a UI for it that looks and acts exactly like Facebook does.
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@ben_lubar said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@anonymous234 said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
No one wants to go around signing their friends' certificates and deciding whether Steve or Kevin are trustable enough to do the same.
The signature means "I am confident that the person with GPG key 0x018BAB45DB2D2B24 is the Ben Lubar I know in real life". It's not something that's hard to do. You could make a UI for it that looks and acts exactly like Facebook does.
Repos on GitHub are free!
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@anonymous234 said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
deciding what certificate to encrypt for is the hard part
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Hash: SHA512Want to send an encrypted message to @Remy? Go to https://keybase.io/encrypt#remyporter, type or paste in your message, and click the button.
Want to verify that I really did send this post? Go to https://keybase.io/verify and paste this post in.
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@ben_lubar said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@anonymous234 said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
deciding what certificate to encrypt for is the hard part
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512Want to send an encrypted message to @Remy? Go to https://keybase.io/encrypt#remyporter, type or paste in your message, and click the button.
Want to verify that I really did send this post? Go to https://keybase.io/verify and paste this post in.
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE----------BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512what a nerd
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@pie_flavor said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@ben_lubar said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@anonymous234 said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
deciding what certificate to encrypt for is the hard part
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512Want to send an encrypted message to @Remy? Go to https://keybase.io/encrypt#remyporter, type or paste in your message, and click the button.
Want to verify that I really did send this post? Go to https://keybase.io/verify and paste this post in.
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=kRxz
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Hash: SHA512what a nerd
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@hardwaregeek said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Edit: Duh. Thinking about it, encrypting it would require knowing the recipient's public key, which would require that the recipient have a key. Since hardly anybody does, that makes encryption more difficult than signing.
I believe that's why some organization still use Domino servers. I believe that everyone is assigned a key for encryption, so we use their email application to exchange emails between government organizations.
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@ben_lubar
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-
@pie_flavor I think I should sleep at some point. It's 3 AM.
-
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
@pie_flavor
-
-
@pie_flavor said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Yeah... NFC what I'm doing apparently, and this site apparently doesn't help make it easier.
What's fun is that supposedly it was supposed to be encrypted for your account specifically (if the reason why it wanted your username in the form was anything to go by)...
-
@pie_flavor
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Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----Maybe this one will work?
I think you're supposed to smush it into https://keybase.io/decrypt
-
@tsaukpaetra
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-
@tsaukpaetra said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@pie_flavor said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Yeah... NFC what I'm doing apparently, and this site apparently doesn't help make it easier.
What's fun is that supposedly it was supposed to be encrypted for your account specifically (if the reason why it wanted your username in the form was anything to go by)...
Oh, it worked just fine. I encountered that when trying to send you something.
-
@pie_flavor said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
And you didn't include a signature, silly.
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
-
@tsaukpaetra
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
-
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512Just because we have bits to spare, doesn't mean we need to waste them frivolously...
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----I said that. Yes, I did.
-
@tsaukpaetra
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
-
Ok this is getting excessive
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
Comment: https://keybase.io/cryptowcBMA27CPcdaZXN4AQf8C/8hYfCICm1b/tlf1STsAqMNeuS9pW1qFZVcfKr4AJxA
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
-
@tsaukpaetra said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Ok this is getting excessive
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
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=+MYO
-----END PGP MESSAGE----------BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
Comment: https://keybase.io/cryptowcFMA0b+I5Bnpsr5AQ//Ug1smSlh0rMDWfMAciMvcJOb19sUkyQodgLOkPI9AhsR
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=2Urs
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
-
Ha..
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.76
Comment: https://keybase.io/cryptowcBMA27CPcdaZXN4AQf/TYICUUaKdAKcY4JYc42wvTL/G4XePDoROuvczbwufWed
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You want longer post? Fuck you. Here longer post
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@hardwaregeek said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@blakeyrat I've seen many that were signed with PGP/GPG; it can't be much harder to encrypt.
The encryption and decription are both easy. The hard part is finding and attending all the Key Signing Parties™ you need to attend so your key also verifies for anybody. And then deciding and maintaining the rules for trust—I remember running some absurd script to apply them, because otherwise it asked you zillions of questions how much you trust this or that signature.
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@spencer welcome back, lurker?
Who the fuck are you?
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@tsaukpaetra thanks?
I was around shortly after the migration to
dicsoresdiscourse; stopped visiting because a big project at work started to get underway. Looks like I missed all the abuse and fun of a migration to NodeBB. I'm on leave for the week, and remembered this place. Glad to see you lot all haven't changed.
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@spencer said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Glad to see you lot all haven't changed.
Well, it's been divided into the Garage band where all the noise happens, so in some ways it's become much more civilized IMO.
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@tsaukpaetra said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
@spencer said in How do we revoke HTTPS certificates we sold to our clients? By revealing their private keys!:
Glad to see you lot all haven't changed.
Well, it's been divided into the Garage band where all the noise happens, so in some ways it's become much more civilized IMO.
I wouldn't call it more civilized, instead I would speak of it being contained.
Probably.
