Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too
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Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too. They deserve as much hate as Oracle. How about an Apple and Google one too?
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@Dan-Howard said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
How about an Apple and Google one too?
I'd have a lot of content for a Google one.
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After initially being cool on the idea, I'm now thinking it's actually pretty good. Though if we do create these, we should make them all subcategories of a parent, so the category list doesn't get a mile long
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@RaceProUK said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Though if we do create these, we should make them all subcategories of a parent, so the category list doesn't get a mile long
Hm... We've never tried to break the category page / chooser that way, have we?
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@asdf said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
We've never tried to break the category page / chooser that way, have we?
I've done enough damage to this forum already
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This would involve mods doing work. CLOSED_WONTFIX
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You can post your hate for $corporation in general, and if there were too much these topics it would make sense to have a category for that.
The oracle one is unnecessary and I think it was created because the site owners hate Oracle more than the other corporations.
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@wharrgarbl "Because it's time we senselessly bash someone other than microsoft". I believe Alex likes his MS stack.
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@PleegWat said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@wharrgarbl "Because it's time we senselessly bash someone other than microsoft". I believe Alex likes his MS stack.
Which is why we're on a Linux/nginx/Node stack
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Couldn't we just use the entire forum for senselessly bashing random companies? It's not like we need a separate category for each company. This one's just here for legacy reasons.
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@Dan-Howard said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
They deserve as much hate as Oracle.
Unpossible.
Unless Microsoft starts storing empty strings as NULL in MSSQL or C#, they are not even close.
Creating those extra clubs would only result in the Oracle guys posting about Oracle to show you why those products/companies are not as bad as Oracle. So it might as well go in the Oracle Hate club area.
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@darkmatter said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Unless Microsoft starts storing empty strings as NULL in MSSQL or C#, they are not even close.
... ISTR that's exactly what happens when I save an empty-string property in Entity Framework....
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@ben_lubar said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Couldn't we just use the entire forum for senselessly bashing random companies? It's not like we need a separate category for each company. This one's just here for legacy reasons.
Rename "I Hate Oracle" to "I Hate Everyone".
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@RaceProUK said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
After initially being cool on the idea, I'm now thinking it's actually pretty good. Though if we do create these, we should make them all subcategories of a parent, so the category list doesn't get a mile long
ACTUALLY, what we should do is create the I Hate Microsoft category, but have a subcategory for each of their products (with a sub-sub category for each revision of such product).
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@Lorne-Kates said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
sub-sub category for each revision
so we are stuck with the Windows 10 and Office 365 sub-categories for the next 10 years?
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@Luhmann no, this isn't Discourse.
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@Arantor
No it iis just that Ms seems to want to keep those names around for some time
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Official request to start a "I hate Firefox 22 Club"
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@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hate Chromebooks" section too
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@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hateChromebooks" section tooFTFBL
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@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hatve Chromebooks" section tooWe have one: https://what.thedailywtf.com/user/ben_lubar
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@Yamikuronue said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
We have one: https://what.thedailywtf.com/user/ben_lubar
Ben has a Chrombook until he gets that replacement
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
... ISTR that's exactly what happens when I save an empty-string property in Entity Framework....
apparently so, but only in certain situations.
Seems that you can tell it not to do that sort of stupidity though. Unlike Oracle, where you're just fscked
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@darkmatter Looking at that issue, it seems the cause wasn't the storage, but the validation. MSSQL will always distinguish between
''
andNULL
, no matter what ORM or alike you use to access it.
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Everyone (around here at least) loves to complain about that particular quirk of Oracle's, but I've never seen a good explanation for why it's a bad thing. A lot of semantic tautologies that boil down to "they're different things and should be represented differently!!!", but no actual logic.
Given that the entire point of a string is to be represented as human-readable text, (and yes, this is the only point of a string; if you're storing binary data in it in 2017 you are and deserve to end up on the front page,) what's the difference between a string-containing-nothing, which when rendered on a screen or printed produces no text that the user can see, and a nothing-string, which when rendered on a screen or printed produces no text that the user can see?
ISTM the whole thing is a distinction without a difference. Drawing a distinction between
null
and0
makes sense, as0
can be a valid, meaningful number, but for strings? Both versions mean exactly the same thing: "I have no text for you to view."
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Everyone (around here at least) loves to complain about that particular quirk of Oracle's, but I've never seen a good explanation for why it's a bad thing. A lot of semantic tautologies that boil down to "they're different things and should be represented differently!!!", but no actual logic.
There's a massive difference between
I know this is an empty string
andI don't know what this string is
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@RaceProUK And how do you print that difference out on paper?
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@RaceProUK And how do you print that difference out on paper?
Same way you show it in query results: the empty string is a blank cell, and a null value is shown as NULL.
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@RaceProUK There's this guy out there named Mason
NULL
Wheeler who thinks there might be an obvious problem or two with that idea...
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@RaceProUK And how do you print that difference out on paper?
Mason E_NULL_REFERENCE_EXCEPTION Wheeler
????
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@masonwheeler OK, now you're just being deliberately annoying
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@RaceProUK I'm deliberately pointing out that there are a lot of contexts in which your proposed solution makes no sense. If you find that demonstration annoying, well... that should tell you something.
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@RaceProUK There's this guy out there named Mason
NULL
Wheeler who thinks there might be an obvious problem or two with that idea...Sounds like a nobody.
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Depends on the system, but "" can mean that something was there and has been removed, while NULL means that nothing was ever there. Which can have its uses.
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
ISTM the whole thing is a distinction without a difference.
Aside from SQL null handling rules, it's never really made a difference for me in practice.
@Dragoon said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Depends on the system, but "" can mean that something was there and has been removed, while NULL means that nothing was ever there. Which can have its uses.
Yeah, but there are other ways to note that sort of thing, and it might be better to be more explicit (with some sort of history or whatever) than relying on this sort of thing.
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@Dragoon said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
while NULL means that nothing was ever there
UPDATE table SET column = NULL;
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@Jaloopa said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hateChromebooks" section tooFTFBL
Hatters gonna hat!
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@boomzilla Probably, but that is a use that I have seen for it. Even a bug report that we received from a customer, because we broke it at one point.
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@Dragoon said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Probably, but that is a use that I have seen for it.
A story worthy of this site, I am sure!
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@RaceProUK NULL is a bad one here, because your end users won't know the difference. Something like
unknown
set off in a different font or color (maybe a light grey instead of black) to show that it's different than entering the word unknown would be best.But of course, the whole question's stupid to begin with, as it assumes that there's nothing useful in computer science that cannot be printed out on a piece of paper concisely.
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@boomzilla
Indeed. Maybe someday I will write them all down and submit them. None of them are very large so it would be a series of vignettes rather than a story.
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@RaceProUK There's this guy out there named Mason
NULL
Wheeler who thinks there might be an obvious problem or two with that idea...This is actually a decent example of why there has to be a difference between NULL and an empty string. It's the difference between knowing that someone doesn't have a middle name and not knowing someone's middle name. Middle name might be a trivial example, but it might be important for things like phone number, email address, or current employer.
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@Yamikuronue said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
Something like
unknownundefinedJTFY
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@Yamikuronue said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
it assumes that there's nothing useful in
computer sciencetextual data that cannot be printed out on a piece of paper concisely.FTFY. If you have a counterexample, feel free to share it.
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@Dragnslcr said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
This is actually a decent example of why there has to be a difference between NULL and an empty string. It's the difference between knowing that someone doesn't have a middle name and not knowing someone's middle name. Middle name might be a trivial example, but it might be important for things like phone number, email address, or current employer.
Why? If you don't know my email address, the end result is exactly the same as if I don't have one: you're unable to send me emails.
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@masonwheeler said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Dragnslcr said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
This is actually a decent example of why there has to be a difference between NULL and an empty string. It's the difference between knowing that someone doesn't have a middle name and not knowing someone's middle name. Middle name might be a trivial example, but it might be important for things like phone number, email address, or current employer.
Why? If you don't know my email address, the end result is exactly the same as if I don't have one: you're unable to send me emails.
But if I know you don't have an email address, I won't keep asking you to provide it.
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@Dragnslcr said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
But if I know you don't have an email address, I won't keep asking you to provide it.
Even if I have an email address, and you keep asking me to provide it, I may choose to answer NULL
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@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Yamikuronue said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
We have one: https://what.thedailywtf.com/user/ben_lubar
Ben has a Chrombook until he gets that replacement
You didn't see the topic about Edgar?
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@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hate Chromebooks" section tooThe Edgebook is clearly better.
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@anonymous234 said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Luhmann said in Please create a I Hate Microsoft Club too:
@Onyx
I think we might be needing a "I hate Chromebooks" section tooThe Edgebook is clearly better.
I hear some prefer the Firebook. Problem is, it's prone to overheating.