@tdb said:
@El Disposo said:Geez, I knew Ubuntu was getting bad, but it doesn't even come with emacs‽With Linux distributions, there's more than one definition of "comes with". I can think of at least three, in ascending order by amount of software:
- What the installer installs by default
- What's included on the install CD
- What's readily available through the package manager
I've never actually installed Ubuntu (being a Debian user), so I don't know exactly what's in the first two sets. However, emacs is available through apt, installable with one simple command or a few clicks through the fancy graphical tool (which I don't know how to use).
Ubuntu is based on Debian Unstable (which is bad choice #1 in the creation of any given Ubuntu release, really -- if Debian is already doing all the package triage in their Stable branch, why start building a Linux distribution which you're targeting at new users with the Unstable branch and then have to do triage all over again? Particularly if you aren't going to do any significant work to fix known issues?) I have tried the 9.10 release, and #1 and #2 are basically the same thing. (I may be mistaken, but I think almost all the stuff on the Ubuntu CD which isn't included in a default install is localization.) As for #3, it's a little complicated, because Ubuntu includes both an "Add/Remove Programs" thing (which uses apt but only to install pre-defined combinations of stuff) and a more direct version of apt which is just as crappy to manipulate as all the other apt GUIs out there.
Regardless, any normal person would say that "X comes with Y" does not mean "X comes with anything which is available over the Internet which runs on X", or even "X comes with anything for which there is a download link included with X". The current European version of Windows now asks which web browser you want and downloads the one you ask for, but that doesn't mean it can be said to "come with" Opera. You don't say that a copy of Mac OS X comes with any system updates which may be available for download. Only Linux users try to screw with the language this way.
@tdb said:
@El Disposo said:@dhromed said:Who the fuck cares about Emacs? Nobody needs Emacs. Stop talking about Emacs.
Well, yes, but the only real reason to use Linux as a desktop is to support FOSS ideology -- you don't get better responsiveness out of a Linux desktop than out of Windows or Mac OS, or easier configuration, or better reliability, or any good exclusive software. The one undisputed benefit you get is that you can say "I am using nothing but open source software" (except of course for the Windows VM you use to run all the stuff which isn't available in any useable form on Linux). So I'm shocked they aren't including Richard Stallman's pet project.
Using free software does mean a lot to some of us. And while configuration of a Linux system might not be easier than competitors, there's more settings to adjust to one's personal tastes, which also appeals to a certain type of user.
So? Not going into the question of whether or not that's really true in a meaningful sense, or even whether it would be an unquestionably good thing if true, what relevance does that have in this context? I'm sure that a certain type of driver would love to have a car which was painted lime green with hot pink stripes, but whether or not some people prefer that has no relevance to the question of whether or not cars should have disc brakes.