The EULA of freedom
-
@blakeyrat said:
You're confusing platforms with game genres.
The ideal controller is a function of *genre*.
I'm confusing no such thing. What kind of chump do you think I am! Hell you yourself just said that when playing Halo xbox, you miss the keyboard & mouse. Conclusion: K&M are not used for console games.
And to repeat myself; it's been my experience that controllers such as the ones found on PS3 and 360 are never used for PC games, regardles of whether or not it's technically possible. That status "never" has just been upgraded to "very rarely", because apparently you are one such person.
My idea that there is a 1:1 exclusive connection between K&M:PC and gamepad:console is firmly rooted in observation. You are the very first person that has challenged this notion.
@blakeyrat said:
Feh. I mock you. If you play one game a year, and haven't heard of PC gamepads, you're no gamer.
Oh, I don't call myself a badass gamer per se. I don't consume games every month or week like some people do, but I do have a good history of gaming, I like it, and I have an informed opinion. That is; on PC games. As said, none of my friends have consoles, so my view on them kind of skims the surface.
@blakeyrat said:
spread out like a freakin' virus across the whole galaxy.
Zerg rush!
-
In fact, blakey, if you'd lived around the corner, I'd be all, hey stoopidface, wanna play some xbox over at your house after school?
And your mom would bring us milk and cookies and we'd have a merry time.
PC users beget PC users.
-
@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
You're confusing platforms with game genres.
The ideal controller is a function of *genre*.
I'm confusing no such thing. What kind of chump do you think I am! Hell you yourself just said that when playing Halo xbox, you miss the keyboard & mouse. Conclusion: K&M are not used for console games.
What the hell kind of Venn diagram are you drawing here so that this makes sense?
First of all, you can use a keyboard/mouse on some console games, just not many. Secondly, your conclusion here, even if it was correct, doesn't also conclude the inverse: that controllers are never used on PCs. "Mouses are not used on consoles" is not mutually-exclusive with "controllers are not used on PCs."
@dhromed said:
And to repeat myself; it's been my experience that controllers such as the ones found on PS3 and 360 are never used for PC games, regardles of whether or not it's technically possible. That status "never" has just been upgraded to "very rarely", because apparently you are one such person.
My idea that there is a 1:1 exclusive connection between K&M:PC and gamepad:console is firmly rooted in observation. You are the very first person that has challenged this notion.
Look, we've already covered this: whatever passes for "friends" for you are either:
1) ONLY playing genres that lend themselves to keyboard/mouse play, or
2) Using the wrong controller for the game they're playing.You saying that there is a 1:1 correlation doesn't counter any of my points. It just means your friends are idiots.
It's probably number one there. From my experience, a lot of PC gamers simply ignore around 2/3rds of the gaming market-- all the games out there you can't really play effectively on a mouse/keyboard. That doesn't indicate anything, except that PC gamers hate new things and are generally whiny bitches. (Except they're whiny bitches who are perfectly fine with buying buggy-ass EA games... so I really don't know what that means.)
Look, almost by definition, anybody who plays only a few genres on only a single type of controller isn't much of a gamer. Just like anybody who watches only Godzilla flicks isn't much of a movie fan.
Also, and I know I've said this before, but what kind of weird Twilight Zone-esque place do you live where nobody owns a consoles? Here in the normal world, they're far more popular than PCs for gaming. And where you've never seen a Yamaha musical instrument? And where you've never seen a gamepad with a USB cord? It's like you live in some kind of strange alien-constructed simulacrum of the real world. Or, much more likely, never leave your parent's basement.
You're reading around an 8.5 on the pathetic-meter, the only thing saving you from a 9 is that you didn't buy Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball.
@dhromed said:
Oh, I don't call myself a badass gamer per se. I don't consume games every month or week like some people do, but I do have a good history of gaming, I like it, and I have an informed opinion. That is; on PC games. As said, none of my friends have consoles, so my view on them kind of skims the surface.
Yes, but as we've discovered, your friends are MUTANTS FROM JUPITER.
@dhromed said:
@blakeyrat said:
spread out like a freakin' virus across the whole galaxy.
Zerg rush!
Stars! predates Starcraft.
-
@dhromed said:
My idea that there is a 1:1 exclusive connection between K&M:PC and gamepad:console is firmly rooted in observation.
I bought a gamepad for my PC for two reasons: to use with a console emulator, and to be able to smash some buttons without concern of damaging my keyboard. These are strongly correlated.I haven't used it for, what, four years now? Even though I haven't stopped playing games (and in particular platformers, which are more suitably played with this kind of controllers[citation needed]). So I guess you have a point, even if you're being too extremist.
@blakeyrat said:
From my experience, a lot of PC gamers simply ignore around 2/3rds of the gaming market-- all the games out there you can't really play effectively on a mouse/keyboard.
What kind of games are you referring to? I can think of stuff like Guitar Hero, Wii Sports, Dance Dance Revolution, World of Goo... but more than that, what?@blakeyrat said:
Also, and I know I've said this before, but what kind of weird Twilight Zone-esque place do you live[...]?
+1
-
@blakeyrat said:
First of all, you can use a keyboard/mouse on some console games, just not many.
I never knew that, but kind of expecte dit, and that doesn't counter my point where I said the consoles have a nearly exclusive relationship with gamepads.
@blakeyrat said:
even if it was correct, doesn't also conclude the inverse: that controllers are never used on PCs.
I never made that erroneous jump. the second part was plain observation and experience, which I believe I've repeated several times now.
@blakeyrat said:
counter any of my points.
I was never countering your points, just explaining why my point of view is entirely reasonable.
@blakeyrat said:
From my experience, a lot of PC gamers simply ignore around 2/3rds of the gaming market-- all the games out there you can't really play effectively on a mouse/keyboard.
What games are these? RPG, FPS and RTS are right out, because those obviously control excellently with K&M, (regardless of whether they control better or worse with a gamepad, I mean). There are the obvious special controllers like Wii and the music games, but I doubt it all adds up to 2/3rd.
@blakeyrat said:what kind of weird Twilight Zone-esque place do you live where nobody owns a consoles?
I know some people who own consoles. They're just not my friends and I never do things with them. :) Because of that, I also don't know about their PC gaming habits.@blakeyrat said:
And where you've never seen a Yamaha musical instrument?
Where would I have seen one?
@blakeyrat said:
@dhromed said:
Zerg rush!
Stars! predates Starcraft.
I really don't give a shit ^_^
You may have noticed I also don't give a shit about consoles. This whole thing started when I professed my dislike for controllers. That hasn't changed, really.
Re controllers: I actually feel the same about those shapely ergonomic game mice. I really think some features, like real-time resolution adjustments, weight control, and swappable friction pads, are awesome and would enhance the experience, but it's the goddamn shape. I know I probably should extend my tryout period and really get used to the things before I judge them unfit, but then again this mouse was a real eyeopener instantly. It's a stupid cheap-ass basic model, but by sheer luck, everything about it is, for my personally, at the exact Goldilocks value. Weight, friction, click resistance. It also has those excellent bumpers on the side to rest your fingers on without clicking accidentally.
I fucking love that mouse.
-
It's like a Choose Your Own Adventure book, only slightly more legally binding.
-
@dhromed said:
What games are these? RPG, FPS and RTS are right out, because those obviously control excellently with K&M, (regardless of whether they control better or worse with a gamepad, I mean). There are the obvious special controllers like Wii and the music games, but I doubt it all adds up to 2/3rd.
Dude. Psychonauts. Psychonauts, dude. (Although there is a Windows port of it, and it does work with a mouse... but it's really designed for a controller.)
If you include iPhone games, I bet it's pretty close to 2/3rds. If not, maybe I'm off a little, but either way... I like playing *all* games, not just EA games that involve space marines shooting aliens, or WWII.
-
-
@dhromed said:
Why is it not good for K&M?
I played it with K&M and I don't recall having any problems.But now that I think about it, this game could be a good fit for playing with a gamepad, mostly because you use the mouse for camera control rather than aiming. A gamepad would let you perform actions with your right thumb, actions that are done with your left index finger on a keyboar.
And yes, there are many games like that (Prince of Persia comes to mind). So it makes sense to use a gamepad on a PC, for the same reasons it makes sense for console controllers to be like that.
-
@immibis said:
@Qwerty said:
Software EULAs don't let you do this so they are usually worth less than the paper they are not printed on.They're rarely printed on paper, so does that make them worth a negative amount? So I can charge the developers for the EULA?
No, you're misreading. He said they're worth less than the paper they're [b]not[/b] printed on. Since they are not printed on paper, the paper they are not printed on is all the paper in the world. (For the ones that are printed on paper, it's all the paper in the world except that bit.) Either way, the paper they are not printed on is worth a massive amount of money. The EULAs themselves, apparently, are worth some unspecified amount of money which is less than this.
