Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals
-
: while it does not bother me too much having to kill adversaries in a game, I think having to kill an animal would ruin it for me.
Dude... it's a game. They're not real animals, grow a set of balls.
Also, as the bonus round, you can play "spot the SJW":
: I don't feel it's appropriate to question the OPs personal feelings towards killing animals in a game. If you feel you don't understand their viewpoint enough to help answer the question - I'd recommend remaining silent on the matter
Filed under: vegan-friendly, is-not, Red-Dead-2
-
Cheer up, at least they are all "organic"!
-
I always found it fascinating how often people care more about animal rights than human rights.
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
I always found it fascinating how often people care more about animal rights than human rights.
There's about six billion of then but like twenty wolves. We're suppose to protect minorities.
-
Reminds me of:
: I believe in Jesus, he is like a bro to me... but I like D&D games so when I found out the third act is about fighting demons, I felt scared and just asked my friends and family what I should do... they said I should just quit and play less demon based games! So I listened to them!
I still can't decide whether it's Poe or Noe...
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
I always found it fascinating how often people care more about animal rights than human rights.
People are assholes.
-
@anonymous234 I have a personal vendetta against all mammals. If only it weren't for that darned Chicxulub impactor...
-
@DogsB said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
I always found it fascinating how often people care more about animal rights than human rights.
There's about six billion of then but like twenty wolves. We're suppose to protect minorities.
Getting closer to 8 billion, so yes.
It does annoy me when I see the newspaper scaremongering “oh no, there’s a small chance the wolves we eradicated are actually coming back (in this isolated speck of forest)” like it’s a thing to be afraid of.
-
@topspin if this forest is very close to the city, it is something to be worried about. I used to live close to a forest, several times I've seen boars hanging out near my rear gate (where I've been parking my car since there weren't enough space at the front side).
-
@Gąska No need to get the whole population scared and rallied up to just shoot them, when there’s literally like 20 wolves in the entirety of Germany.
-
@topspin as I said, it depends. Scaring the whole population might be an overkill, but scaring the people in direct danger because they live close enough to the pack's hunting grounds is probably a good thing.
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
I used to live close to a forest, several times I've seen boars hanging out near my rear gate
That's why you need the wolves, they'll get rid of your boars in no time!
-
@ixvedeusi import wolves -> wolves rampage through boars -> boars go extinct -> wolves have no food -> wolves go extinct.
I like that idea!
-
I just spotted that the guy's username is tigrefurry.
It makes sense that he's a fucking furry. He'd probably be OK if the game involved fucking animals instead of hunting them
-
@DoctorJones said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
the guy's username is tigrefurry
So he's wanting to be a tiger but doesn't want to hunt. A bit of a case of cognitive dissonance?
Or just very hungry and short-lived maybe.
-
@ixvedeusi the guys is a furry who also plays Jazz, he doesn't have to make sense.
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
I like that idea!
So you're the "fill the earth and subdue it" kind of type, are you now. No surprise there, I guess.
-
@ixvedeusi you say that as if that's a bad thing.
-
@Gąska Doesn't really fit well with my sense of ethics, too anthropocentric for my taste. Can also lead to all kinds of problems because we humans are in general very bad at considering the medium to long term consequences of our actions.
-
@ixvedeusi I agree that the civilization should minimize the changes they make in the nature, and that progress with no regard to ecosystem's stability can have catastrophic consequences that we can't even imagine. But when the nature changes in a way that threatens people, we should protect people at the expense of nature, not the other way around.
I never understood this whole protection of endangered species thing. If they're endangered, it means the ecosystem cannot support them, so isn't it more of harm to keep those species alive at all cost than to just let them die off?
-
@ixvedeusi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
we humans are in general very bad at considering the medium to long term consequences of our actions.
As opposed to animals, who are known for their careful planning
-
@Gąska Depends on the cause of endangerment and the potential consequences.
If bees are dying off in Europe because of some man-made chemical, then massive crop losses are caused because of ...hmm... tragedy of the commons? Followed potentially by hunger.Edit: typos.
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
If bees are dying off in Europe
Are bees dying off in Europe?
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
If bees are dying off in Europe
Are bees dying off in Europe?
I remember reading news about that last summer, yes. Apparently honeybee colonies have been abandoning their nests suddenly and without trace, all over Europe.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of re-introducing wolves to Finland. It's only a matter of time before they eat a kid again.
-
@hungrier said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
As opposed to animals, who are known for their careful planning
Well, no, but generally speaking I don't think they have the hubris to believe they do, and they have vastly inferior means to cause damage.
And now we're into the thorny problem of what "causing damage" is supposed to mean, which I don't have the intellectual bandwidth to go into right now.
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of re-introducing wolves to Finland. It's only a matter of time before they eat a kid again.
Meh. The "man-eater" side of things is IMO grossly over-played. Wolves don't, as a rule, eat humans. Of course it's not to say it could never happen, but hey, dogs also kill children from time to time...
There is a non-negligible number of wolves in French mountains (quick search says "430 and in rapid growth") and as far as I remember, there hasn't been a single case of attack on humans since they were reintroduced (I don't know, maybe 20-30 years ago?). Countless attacks on sheep, yes, and on dogs in a few cases I think, but no humans.
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
But when the nature changes in a way that threatens people, we should protect people at the expense of nature, not the other way around.
I tend to lean into this direction, too, but IMHO there's a balance to be found. Zero damage to humans at any cost to everything else isn't it. But we're getting into very difficult terrain here, with lots of shades of gray, which requires careful reasoning and precise communication. I'm supposed to be doing some "productive" work at the moment, which requires most of my mental capacities, so I think we'll have to discuss this some other time.
-
@remi There's historical evidence of people getting eated when easier prey is scarce. We're not special from the wolf's point of view. The problem in Finland is that children may need to walk 2-4km of forest road to school at age 7. If there's a pack of wolves nearby, few parents will fail to drive them over instead, which is a pain.
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@remi There's historical evidence of people getting eated when easier prey is scarce.
There is, but it's actually not that much and usually in particular circumstances (with modern wildlife population monitoring and management, these circumstances are less likely to happen). Somehow the wolf gained a reputation that is way out of his actual danger to humans. And some of the cases where it did attack humans have been blown out of proportion.
We're not special from the wolf's point of view.
Yes we are. We're large (even a 7 yo is of comparable size to an adult wolf), and we're unpredictable (in their eyes). They much prefer not to roam where humans live. Now of course I'm not saying they're cuddly pups without danger, but really, I'd be worried by a children being trampled by a wild boar before worrying about it being attacked by a wolf.
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of re-introducing wolves to Finland. It's only a matter of time before they eat a kid again.
Meh. The "man-eater" side of things is IMO grossly over-played. Wolves don't, as a rule, eat humans. Of course it's not to say it could never happen, but hey, dogs also kill children from time to time...
And when they do, they're put to sleep. Even if they don't succeed in actually killing anyone, but still attacked, they're also put to sleep.
There is a non-negligible number of wolves in French mountains (quick search says "430 and in rapid growth")
Depending on how many mountains you have in mind (I assume a lot, because France has a lot of mountains on the south side), this can be a very negligible number.
-
@Gąska What is your baseline comparison? Is it a country were wolves are endemic (i.e. where ever you are outside of big cities, there is a wolf close to you, like e.g. deer or rabbit), or a country where there is currently no wolf at all?
In the former, then yes 430 wolves on the whole of France is tiny. But in Europe, this baseline doesn't exist anymore so comparing to it is IMO pointless. In the latter, then 430 wolves isn't negligible, and that can serve as a model (as in "modelling the future", not necessarily as "example to follow") as to what might happen if you reintroduce wolves in a such a country.
I got the feeling that the discussion about wolves in Europe is more of the second kind, but I may be wrong.
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
If bees are dying off in Europe
Are bees dying off in Europe?
I remember reading news about that last summer, yes. Apparently honeybee colonies have been abandoning their nests suddenly and without trace, all over Europe.
Yeah, bees are almost extinct and huge catastrophe is looming over us every year. Next year they will also be almost extinct.
-
@remi There are very few boars in Finland. However, there is an ecess of wolves, as the current "management" policy doesn't. Even problematic specimens don't tend to get shot.
Also, humans are slow and very defenseless compared to other animals. It's only a matter of time before a pack figures it out. Then they will teach it to their young. Wolves are smart like that.
-
I like that you titled this "millenial". Would you have titled it "Woman wants to play Red Dead..." or "American wants to play Red Dead..." or "White male wants to play Red Dead..." ?
-
@anonymous234 "Vegan wants to play Red Dead..."
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@Gąska What is your baseline comparison?
The amount that would kill humans on regular basis if wolves were able and willing to kill humans.
To make an absurd comparison, if you had a gun turret that randomly shot bullets all the time in all directions, but only one, and placed it in some remote location where few people ever wander through, it would also likely never kill anyone. But this doesn't tell you anything about dangerousness of the turret. But if you put several of them in a city center, and it still didn't kill anyone, only then you can say they are indeed harmless.
I don't know how dense wolf population has to be to make meaningful measurements. But 430 wolves spread over French mountains sounds like it has a lot of potential for being too sparse to draw definitive conclusions.
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
It's only a matter of time before a pack figures it out. Then they will teach it to their young. Wolves are smart like that.
Except we have actual centuries, if not millennia, of experience that says they still haven't figured it out. I don't see why they suddenly would nowadays, especially since both wolves' and humans' environments are less likely to push wolves to do that.
-
Also I still don't understand why people ask questions like this?
Just ask them not to do it FFS.
-
@loopback0 said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Also I still don't understand why people ask questions like this?
Because someone had a genius idea that you need to contribute to community through asking and answering questions before you can start adding small comments.
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
It's only a matter of time before a pack figures it out. Then they will teach it to their young. Wolves are smart like that.
Except we have actual centuries, if not millennia, of experience that says they still haven't figured it out. I don't see why they suddenly would nowadays, especially since both wolves' and humans' environments are less likely to push wolves to do that.
Except that we have evidence that they have figured it out several times. After the last time, they were hunted to extinction in Finland, by order of the tsar.
You don't consider explosive population growth, in a forest-covered cuntry with every square kilometer containing at least one cabin, "likely to push wolves"? The case of children walking multiple kilometers to school every day is neither hypothetical nor particularly rare.
-
@Gąska I don't think anyone is arguing about having wolves freely roaming in the middle of cities. If you want me to say that wolves are wild animals and potentially dangerous, well duh.
If, on the other hand, the question is "what is the impact on humans of having a natural-but-controlled population of wolves in some wild areas of a Western country", then France (or Italy, or Spain) is a valid comparison point. And those 3 countries (and probably most other places in the Western world, including the US) show that, really, a managed wild wolves population is absolutely no threat to humans (again, sheep or cattle is another story -- but the argument "wolves attack humans" is totally invalid in that framework).
-
@acrow said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Also, humans are slow and very defenseless compared to other animals. It's only a matter of time before a pack figures it out. Then they will teach it to their young. Wolves are smart like that.
We need to make this a thing. I like the idea of warning my grand children about wolves and it actually being a real thing.
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Except we have actual centuries, if not millennia, of experience that says they still haven't figured it out. I don't see why they suddenly would nowadays, especially since both wolves' and humans' environments are less likely to push wolves to do that.
Thats because we keep wiping them out. Give them a couple dozen generations and they'll be more than a match for us.
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@Gąska I don't think anyone is arguing about having wolves freely roaming in the middle of cities.
But there are some people who argue wolves freely roaming in remote places, like mountains, are completely harmless.
If, on the other hand, the question is "what is the impact on humans of having a natural-but-controlled population of wolves in some wild areas of a Western country"
Didn't you say they were reintroduced? As in, transplanted from some other habitat? That doesn't sound very natural to me.
-
@acrow Honestly, I don't see that much of a danger.
I had a quick look through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attack. Clearly if you leave aside India (and I hope you're not saying that Finland is really comparable to India, in terms of population distribution, economic activity, wildlife monitoring... everything really...), wolves are a non-problem to humans. 11 deaths in 50 years in Europe/Russia/America. That's the extent of the problem.
I'm not necessarily in favour of reintroducing wolves anywhere, but again, the danger to humans is not the factor at play here (except maybe in so far that so many people, like you here, overplay it...).
-
@DogsB said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Thats because we keep wiping them out. Give them a couple dozen generations and they'll be more than a match for us.
'cause wolves have never lived in the same areas as humans in the past, for millennia, without being wiped out? You must be trolling me.
-
@Gąska said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Didn't you say they were reintroduced? As in, transplanted from some other habitat? That doesn't sound very natural to me.
Actually no, they weren't (I'll be honest, I thought they were). They came naturally over from Italy, where apparently they've never been extinct. And they've since naturally spread in all mountain ranges of France.
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@DogsB said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Thats because we keep wiping them out. Give them a couple dozen generations and they'll be more than a match for us.
'cause wolves have never lived in the same areas as humans in the past, for millennia, without being wiped out? You must be trolling me.
-
@remi said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
@DogsB said in Millennial wants to play Red Dead 2, but doesn't want to hurt the poor little animals:
Thats because we keep wiping them out. Give them a couple dozen generations and they'll be more than a match for us.
'cause wolves have never lived in the same areas as humans in the past, for millennia, without being wiped out? You must be trolling me.
I doubt he's trolling you, mostly because that's exactly how the wolf debate sound in the Nordic countries where the cowardly mutts are making a comeback.
-
@DogsB Some fishes are more dangerous than other...
Dog vs Bass - When Fish Attack! – 01:41
— GunHunterPlanet
-
@remi Population distribution... forests full of houses. Check. (It's popular to build your house in the middle of nowhere and commute as much as 20km to work in the city.)
Economic activity... getting there.
Wildlife monitoring (or lack thereof), check.You may think you've figured this out from your ivory tower in France. In the meanwhile, rural communities find wolf pawprints in their backyards. Not bears, which do indeed steer clear of humans. Nor lynx, which also behaves relatively well here. But wolves. So far, only dogs (and a couple of old cats) have been eaten. Nobody leaves their dog outside anymore, ever. But it does seem to me like it's only a matter of time.
Edit:
P.S.
Approximately 50 dogs eaten by wolves annually, according to Finland's equivalent of BBC: