Scrolling past this at speed magically transforms it from aneurism-inducing bracket soup into a gently rolling ocean.
Pity the same can't be said about all WTFs.
Scrolling past this at speed magically transforms it from aneurism-inducing bracket soup into a gently rolling ocean.
Pity the same can't be said about all WTFs.
Essentially, software would literally be tied to the hardware.
Except for the bit where you can log into your MS account from any PC and deauthorise it, like the iTunes model.
This is actually offering more freedom than the old system, because you can transfer your license whenever you want.
I don't see any mention of it being "always on" either. More likely it will just handle the activation and do checkins when you go to install stuff from the store or get upgrades - I think MS well and truly learnt their lesson with the reaction to the always-on DRM in the Xbone.
Want to install some M$ software on a system that won't be connected to the interwebs? Well fuck you.
Let's say there was some sort of catastrophe and your system was completely destroyed, so you are working on a new build (because you don't like those boring, mass produced, off-the-shelf systems). Ready to buy the OS? Better go borrow someone else's system so you can make the purchase and download the install, because fuck you.
Or you could log in to your MS account with your phone/tablet/friend's computer/school computer/library computer and remove your existing activation and just reactivate the new device with your store account once you've reinstalled with your recovery media. As for where you get said recovery media, that is TRWTF.
How the hell will this work when buying physical copies? I can think of a way to make it work for software like Office, but how would you make it work for a copy of Windows you buy at the store?
Same as Steam activation for boxed video games, probably. You install the software which complains about being inactive, you log in using your store account and it prompts you to either enter your credit card details or your single-use product key, which permanently attaches that purchase to your MS account.
This whole thing is basically a Steam/iTunes hybrid for Windows. I don't see why people are so unhappy about it.
@error are you trying to stop the rising tide of @mikeTheLiar?
You should know better than to fight against the forces of nature.
No glasses, though I'm fairly sure that's out of stubbornness and that I'm actually short-sighted. A bit of a PFY at 22, but improving. 185cm/6'1" and 80kg/176lbs, so a little overweight. Introverted but I can happily present in front of a crowd or even go out and socialise a couple of times a week (shock horror!)
I travel the world solo, so I couldn't be much further from my parents' basement if I tried.
Stopped playing video games years ago, practical skills include woodworking, horse riding and cattle mustering. Yay diverse upbringing. I also seem to have some kind of talent for handling horses in general - particularly those which no one else can control. So I guess I have that going for me if the world gets hit by a massive solar flare which fries all of our electronics.
That's hardly a dilemma. All of the digits in the top row are multiples of three, all of the digits in the bottom row are multiples of one.
This is a less fragile way to do it: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb412179(v=vs.110).aspx
Due to the whole show-the-target-post-in-the-middle-of-the-screen you get some really weird behaviour when using this.
I asked to go to post 80, but the menu bar says 79, the green box (which was the last UI element I interacted with) is off by one (up to two in the case of the editor being closed) and it's kinda jarring. I guess this is a low priority bug, but I'm still left wondering where I am. It could probably be mitigated by showing a post number in the thread view, or by "pinging" the requested post with a background fade after navigation.
But a bunch of stuff jumbled together where it's practically a wall of text...
If four checkboxes with one-line descriptors are a wall of text then your OP is fucking this:
Seriously, it takes about 5 seconds to skim what those options are.
TRWTF is Qantas Cash and its password system.
Let's count the WTFs.
I have no idea how this was meant to be a good idea.
I don't believe that really is a core requirement of this community. Except for Lorne, but there we need it just so we can get past the diatribes.
Yeah, I'm just referring back to the RFC thread (not that I participated, or have even read it) in the old forums and what it supposedly said about most people saying no to infiniscroll. Can't be arsed checking it out now though, gotta be up early tomorrow and it's 11:30 here. :/
I thought it was sort of a mutual thing rather than Alex just deciding to go with Discourse - I cannot, for one moment, believe Jeff didn't say something to the effect of "your forum sucks, come try ours".
I think you're probably right.
I'm sure Jeff did say that. Fact of the matter is though, Alex could just have easily had said "sorry, your product doesn't align with the requirements of my community as in this thread [insert link to that thread in CS here] so maybe next time." It's his site and his call.
I don't think at any point Alex had a gun to his head over this. It was his decision to move ahead with a product that didn't match the community's desire and the fact that his friends offered a suggestion doesn't mean he couldn't knock it back. It's also not in the Discourse team's best interest to implement a product for a community whose core requirement was "no infinite scrolling."
Jeff & Co. don't run WTF (or at least, I don't think they do, their work on the original site notwithstanding) and I'm sure there have been a few moments when @codinghorror has been on the verge of posting "Well go use a different fucking forum software then," and has instead posted a cute cat picture. Respect to him and @sam for staying as civil as they have, I know I couldn't do it in this situation.
You need to remember, the Discourse team played no part in this decision to change the forum software.
If you can find some way to put this in big angry red letters somewhere I think it would do absolutely nothing to direct people's irrational rage in the right direction but it would be a valiant attempt. Plus the angry posts about the big red angry text would be hilarious and feed my schadenfreude.
Seriously though, you guys have my sympathy. @apapadimoulis kinda threw you under the bus here.
I have it on good authority (read: myself) that it was 4:30ish in Vietnam when he posted that, so I'd be thinking somewhere East of here.
I am not sure my wife, son and daughter really agree with you there
Taking that under consideration, as a son of a father who put work first to the detriment of our current relationship, drop this and get the fuck in there with your family. A delay of three days isn't going to hurt on this one. Now we've established the scope, take the night off. Deadly serious about this post.
I'm not saying anything about you or your priorities, just that we're not worth it. ;)
Great. In that case you're fixing exactly the right bug and you should keep doing what you're doing. :)
Yes, its just as though they gained the ability.
Except they aren't gaining the ability. What you're saying should happen doesn't happen as outlined in great detail in the first post of the thread. I don't know if we can slow it down any further. What you are saying does not align with reality.
Ok. Yes, you're right, they can.However, changing them to level 2 doesn't impart level 2 abilities, like viewing stuff that level 2's should be able to view.
Like the bugs category when the security was set such that level 0 and 1 (and '-1') couldn't.
Which is what this entire (chain of expletives redacted here) thread is about. So I guess we're back to where we started.
My understanding is that you still want anonymous lurkers to be able to read bugs, if you want that, you are talking about a new feature.
If you do what @PJH suggested and read why it's an issue to begin with, or take @codinghorror's advice and read a whole thread before replying (I think that's one of the core problems he's trying to solve with Discourse,) you'd see that we don't want that particular category of user to see it. We just want to allow one user to bypass the "waiting period" or "relief period" or the "gentle don't-shove-bug-reports-down-the-throat-of-every-new-user period" by manually promoting them to a level that sees the bugs.
This whole thread would have been a non-issue and been over after the first post if you stopped trying to analyse how we're using your product wrong for a change, take the fucking bug report at face value and fix it.
This isn't infinite scrolling, this isn't a preference or holy war, this is an existing feature that we used to solve our own damn problem the right way not working as designed.
Far too easy it would appear... Or not interesting enough.
I remember @codinghorror saying that this community and its feedback was a good kick in the pants to get them ready for v1.0 - consider this a kick in the pants for getting the forum's ACL - something even phpBB gets right (shock!) fixed for said version, as opposed to a request to burn more time on a pointless sidetrack, @sam.
Am I missing something? Wouldn't fixing the outstanding bug in the trust levels (a system which works perfectly for this use case barring said bug) be a much better investment of time? We don't need a new feature, we just need that fucking trust level bug fixed so that the current solution works.
Expected behaviour: When viewing a closed/locked thread that I cannot post to the post editor should never appear, regardless of whether I have a saved draft for that thread or not.
Actual behaviour: The editor appears with an enabled "post reply" button.
Obviously the behaviour should be different for any users who can post to locked threads, such as admins or moderators.
Once the bugs become background noise rather than the roar it is at the moment (60-90 days wasn't it @codinghorror?
That's two or three months where the first thing potential new members (commenters/people still on CS) will see is a pile of bug reports as soon as they visit here. I got in before the avalanche of bugs filled up the first page. I probably wouldn't have joined if I wasn't aware that this was a recent development.
Can we at least hide them by default or something?
Meta is our dedicated bug tracker, we tried GitHub issues in conjunction with meta and it was a disaster for us. The reality is that a huge chunk of meta discussion is bug/feature related and we have workflows that work fine for our small team.
Ok, that's fine. As a side note, it's rather confusing having a tag/category "meta" here and also having a "meta" elsewhere, interchangeable terms are very ambiguous.
I guess I was just concerned after reading that thread where you and Jeff were arguing over the situation and what should be done. I felt I should throw in my $0.02 in support of your strategy.
That's not so much a problem any more; people got sick of that behaviour after a while so they're actively creating those topics themselves.
Oh, yeah. I know that, one of those is mine which I created myself as a separate thread (following convention like a good boy). It's an even bigger WTF that he's trained us so well that we're sabotaging our own community.
It could be worse, he might have asked you to render out the entire website to static HTML into a separate directory for each user, mock the user login and auth with fancy rewrite rules, modify the web server config on-the-fly to point the primary domain to the static sites and serve those pages up while the task runs and then reverting the web server config to point back to the dynamic site after the maintenance is done.
Filed under: OMGWTF #3
I grant you, it's pretty fucking ironic that @codinghorror's bug tracking policy is actively drowning out on-topic (pun inbound) discourse on this forum.
Jeff, I think you need to take on board @sam's suggestion about moving everything to meta.discourse.com or even better a dedicated bug tracker - we're quickly becoming The Daily Discourse Bug Tracker. Either that or lay off the thread splitting. Completely.
Also before you jump in, I know you can filter by category/tag/whatever the fuck those are, but really, meta completely drowning out the primary discussions on the forum as the default state is just stupid.
When people are genuinely annoyed (about some great community members leaving for example) and Jeff has to power to help or at least commiserate and instead chooses to mock, THAT is what sucks.
The only time I see him memeing is when people are bitching about the same thing for the n+1th time after he's already addressed it civilly previously. Perhaps not in the one thread, but when you read the 300th post ranting about infinite scrolling or <insert other feature tdwtf doesn't like here> it's understandable he might be a bit less than serious.
I'm also feeling a bit charitable because it seems like @codinghorror and @sam are copping most of the flak from us when really, it was @apapadimoulis who selected Discourse. We're all ranting at @codinghorror but he's not the one who chooses whether we use this system or not, so perhaps if we really want a truck that badly (not making a case for or against that), we should blame the guy who went to the car dealership in the first place instead of the car salesman who is trying to do the best he can given the circumstances.
When using an @-mention the preselected user in the autocomplete menu has the same background colour as the post editor grey.
See below. Ignore the right-click menu - I had to do that as otherwise the autocomplete disappeared whenever I hit a modifier key. Sam's entry completely disappears against the post editor background. I think there should probably be a different background accent, or maybe a darker around the popup - even if it's just a slightly darker grey.
I imagine that's probably how you've felt about your time here all along, but it has been hard to tell with the constant meme trolling.
It's a little ironc that we're criticising @codinghorror for trolling on a forum where the rest of us make a regular habit out of trolling the shit out of each other.
Is it really so inappropriate to suggest that perhaps Jeff could both be a Discourse founder and a regular member of the community and engage in the banter/trolling should he so choose?
I'm reminded of the little exchange that this comment kicked off which was a bit of fun for all involved. Do the rest of you somehow lose the capacity to figure out the difference between a bit of trolling for humour's sake and genuine derision as soon as you read a post from @sam or @codinghorror?
If I remember correctly, one of the first replies when Jeff posted for the first time was saying that we troll pretty much all the time. Seems to me he's just trying to fit in.
Bug: Cannot scroll infinitely in the negative on the x and y axes.
Expected behaviour: Infiniscroll in all directions.
UAT: Failed.
"Hey, Bob! I'm getting a 404 road not found from https://90890121312.i05.ca.gov"
Actually, if these things implement NFC it could mean interesting things for these fancy new self-driving cars. Could be interesting, particularly if the tiles track the state of their neighbours.
You presumptuous son of a bitch, how dare you put words in my mouth like that. This was my criticism and you just come in and shit all over it. Maybe you're just so fucking ignorant of the real world that you can't handle everything not being about you that you have to jump in when it's unwarranted, but if you would kindly back the fuck off and let the adults talk, that'd be great.
By the way, if I needed other people to agree with me I'd have a fucking newsletter. You don't see a subscribe link anywhere here, do you?
Filed under: I really hope this thing doesn't let you subscribe to posts, Ain't nobody gets in the way of my ranting.
Creator being Alex is as-designed since he did the split, though.
I think this is one of those correct vs. technically correct situations. Sure, it might technically correct that Alex created it, but for all intents and purposes to an outsider it looks like Ben did it. I can see where this could be useful from an auditing perspective (so that, for example, Ben doesn't get penalised for spamming if a moderator split the topic) however I think the split/created distinction needs to be made a little more clear to prevent user confusion, if making "created by" the owner of the first post is off the table.
My biggest concern is how these LED lane markings are meant to work during the day. We don't live in a world of eternal night just yet - and if we did, solar roadways would be the worst possible idea ever.
Well now I'm confused as to how this long name business thing works.
The concern is the keyboard-centric approach that seems to pervade development across multiple features. The quote in my post you just replied to has nothing to do with the feature covered by the post you linked to. It's an entirely different feature request, which perfectly illustrates the real point - there are, relatively speaking, a lot of features where the approach seems to be "make it a keyboard shortcut."
The fact that the enhancement to thread navigation is going to be clickable is nice (just figured I'd explicitly acknowledge that in case you think I'm still oblivious to the fact); it's the attitude of "make a hotkey" across multiple features which concerns me, especially in an era when so many devices don't have keyboards.
That will not be the case for this feature, though, so this line of discussion is kind of irrelevant.
I'm not sure if you're just intentionally missing the point to be difficult, or whether you actually can't figure out that the feature isn't the issue here. In the interests of addressing the actual problem (which is to say hiding functionality behind keyboard shortcuts that mobile users can't even use,) let's substitute this feature:
Sounds like an interesting idea for a keyboard shortcut possibly,
will sort through any avatar issues tomorrow.
An issue you may not have considered but I would be wiling to bet will affect your new avatar system in the next few weeks: a person or persons using said systems to spell out naughty words using their avatars. Also the spam which will result from such efforts.
TL;DR Avatar Scrabble.
But put an elevator in beside the escalators so us old fogies can get our walkers upstairs.
That's actually... the perfect metaphor. Well done, sir.
keyboard shortcuts is a feature a very small subset of Discourse users really care for.
I could make a backhanded comment about pagination and infinite scrolling here, but I won't. ;)
To borrow your set theory for a moment: the subset of Discourse users who care about useful feature X which you implement via keyboard shortcut may eclipse the subset of Discourse users who care for keyboard shortcuts. By implementing feature X as a keyboard shortcut you're constraining the audience of that feature to the audience of keyboard shortcut users, an audience that at the moment doesn't include @sam, @codinghorror and @dfcowell at the very least. That concerns me, considering that the keyboard shortcut audience is not likely to grow any time soon.
To be clear, my concern isn't necessarily the discoverability of keyboard shortcuts. My concern is for the discoverability of functionality which is only exposed via keyboard shortcuts. As an example, the very first post in this thread states:
a keyboard shortcut to jump to arbitrary post numbers (or "pages", whatever we define that to mean) in a topic
I'd kinda like that ability too, but I'm a non-keyboard-shortcut-using pleb. Am I out in the cold here? If so, is this setting a dangerous precedent, or is it a special case? I've just seen a number of places where "we could use a keyboard shortcut to implement that" and my gut reaction is "great, another useful feature I'll never use."
The feature is unfinished and unpolished, I don't want to advertise the experimental feature.There is precedent for including the shortcut link in the hamburger, twitter do it and I think we should follow the lead. I just don't want to follow it before I am comfortable using the keyboard shortcuts myself.
Ah, I thought it was more of a locked-in and currently-being-worked-on feature, given the number of threads I seem to stumble into where "adding a hotkey combination for that" seems to be on the agenda.
I also read your comment as more a "not sure if there's demand enough for a menu item, we'll wait and see" comment rather than a "feature is still in an unfinished state, we'll put it in eventually but now isn't the time" comment. That one was my mistake - thanks for the clarification.
RE: comfortable using the keyboard shortcuts - if the people who arguably spend longer with the software than anyone else are finding they need to become accustomed to it, consider how a mere end user with no commitment to the product will find the experience.
Don't really want to put it there by default quite yet.
Yeah, that would be getting a little too close to making life easier for your thousands of other potential users who are even less technical than a forum full of developers. The vast majority of people aren't going to mash buttons on their keyboard in the vain hope of discovering something that they have no reason to believe exists.
If a feature is undiscoverable to the point where we don't figure it out, I shudder to think how the unwashed masses would do. I'm confused as to who this product is for. This indicates it's for developers:
A lot of your other signalling indicates it's for average people and that the features developers want don't mesh with that vision. All told, you've got a very confused product which has a lot of blingy hidden features that most people will never discover. The fact that the keyboard hotkey used to display the hidden list of keyboard hotkeys is only ever displayed in the hidden list of keyboard hotkeys is just the icing on a very smelly cake.
I'm trying to like Discourse. There are things I like about Discourse. I've even put in a good word here and there when the nitpicks got a bit out of control. Two things that I do not and will never support are:
I really like what you've done with the like/flag/share/bookmark UI, but the Reply as New Topic and hotkey experiences leave a lot to be desired.
I also think the directions Google are going with that hideous new Gmail interface and their ongoing move to increase redundant mouse clicks to achieve anything useful with the YouTube player are stupid, but this isn't the thread for that.
Just because lots of places use it doesn't make it discoverable. I had no idea it existed in any of those places either. Hotkeys on websites (as distinct from hotkeys defined by user agents) is a new concept to a lot of people - me included - and I think having a hotkey as the only way to discover the existence of hotkeys is more than a little foolish.
Good idea for a thread. I'm Dan, my wholly unoriginal screen name can be traced back to my real-world identity with ease, as perilous as that might be. I'm from the Gold Coast, Australia, but at the moment I'm in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. I'm doing the whole remote worker/digital nomad thing and I mainly work with JavaScript (node, angularjs) and PHP with the odd bit of C#. All cloud (there's a buzzword to rival "digital nomad") stuff.
Clicking on the link icon to do things with linking, especially as it reacts to having the mouse pointer over it and has a tooltip, is “obvious”. Clicking on the time… isn't.
In this particular case though, there is a very discoverable way to achieve what you want. The fact that there is a second way which is more opaque is kind of redundant, but nice for those power users who want to save a click or two here and there.