More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense
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@Yamikuronue said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
This is Windows' fault?
There was a discussion about usability claims somewhere around here...
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@Yamikuronue said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Windows 7 only let me postpone the reboot for 4 hours max.
And not long ago, I was in a game, fullscreen when that 4 hours elapsed.So let me get this straight:
- Windows warned you it needed a reboot, and asked if it could do it now
- You said no, ask again in 4 hours when it'll be more convenient
- You then started playing a fullscreen game, knowing full well Windows needed a reboot, but choosing not to reboot before you started
- You were surprised when Windows asked again, as you had asked, and then rebooted, assuming you had walked away from the machine
- This is Windows' fault?
The stupid part is not Windows asking again 4 hours later, it's the FUCK YOU, I WILL REBOOT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT !
Is this OS soooooo insecure, that as soon as an update comes in, you absolutely have to reboot ASAP before you get hacked ?
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
it's the FUCK YOU, I WILL REBOOT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT !
The dialog makes it abundantly clear that a lack of action implies consent. You failed to act, ergo you gave consent by default.
TR here is you're too stupid to admit you fucked up.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You failed to act, ergo you gave consent by default
Guacomole thread is
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@cvi said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@Rhywden said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
and you can also schedule the reboot down to the minute.
I wish you could prevent updates from being applied at certain times/days(*), even though you reboot the machine. It's bloody annoying when you're supposed to hold a presentation/whatever, having to reboot for some reason, and then having to wait for the 5+ minutes of windows update to finish.
(*) Or perhaps make the machine only ever apply updates when you're at a certain place (connected to a certain network or whatever).
In the case of pending updates, I have the following options in my shutdown menu:
- reboot
- reboot and update
- shutdown
- shutdown and update
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maybe by windows 11, they can make it so the machine doesn't have to reboot to install updates?
this seems like it should be a solved problem.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
The dialog makes it abundantly clear that a lack of action implies consent. You failed to act, ergo you gave consent by default.
TR here is you're too stupid to admit you fucked up.
No, TRWTF is that first paragraph.
I LIVE IN A WINDOWS UPDATE CULTURE!
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@bb36e said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
maybe by windows 11, they can make it so the machine doesn't have to reboot to install updates?
this seems like it should be a solved problem.
Whoa, slow down there, cowboy. This is the company that is just learning to put task bars and clocks on multiple windows.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@loopback0 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Do people still turn stuff off while gaming?
Regular people, no, but if you're thuper-therial about your pro gaming, you'll be looking to squeeze every last FPS out of your machine, especially if you're playing an FPS.
upvoted just for the mocking slurring of the words. I love you sometimes RaceProUK :D
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@bb36e said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
maybe by windows 11, they can make it so the machine doesn't have to reboot to install updates?
this seems like it should be a solved problem.
You know what happened just recently when I installed Ubuntu on a VM?
Please reboot to apply the updates
So, spare us.
A while after that, by the way:
Manual: Please reboot so that the changed configuration is applied properly.
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One time I was streaming Dwarf Fortress while I slept and I checked WIndows Update a few days in a row. Each day, it said "Updates require a reboot. Right now, [random timestamp between 3:00 AM and 4:00 AM] looks good." but it didn't actually reboot until I manually rebooted it.
If Windows 10 thinks Dwarf Fortress is important enough to postpone a reboot indefinitely but doesn't think your fullscreen video game is, something's fucked up somewhere in the vicinity of your computer.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
it's the FUCK YOU, I WILL REBOOT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT !
The dialog makes it abundantly clear that a lack of action implies consent. You failed to act, ergo you gave consent by default.
TR here is you're too stupid to admit you fucked up.
TR is you are too stupid to admit that WHEN A GAME IS FULLSCREEN, I CAN'T SEE THE DIALOG
And Windows knows full well that the game requested fullscreen.By the way, I'm waiting for the $1000 US you agreed to give to me in the paper note that you never saw because you were asleep when I showed it to you.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
yet doesn't check their PC's fully updated?
To be fair, Windows Update often tells lies about that.
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@cvi said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I wish you could prevent updates from being applied at certain times/days(*), even though you reboot the machine.
Does setting the startup type for the Windows Automatic Updates service to Disabled and then rebooting no longer work in W10?
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@TimeBandit If Windows had dumped you out of fullscreen to see the dialog, your reaction would have been "How dare Windows dump me out of fullscreen!"
Fact of the matter is, you saw the dialog, postponed the reboot for four hours, then played a fullscreen game right through the grace period. Any normal person would have seen the dialog, thought "Oh, maybe I reboot for updates before playing a game for four hours", and not had a problem.
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@TimeBandit You quickly got out a notepad and jotted down, "oh goody, now I can use this for evidence that Windows sucks on DailyWTF.com!" Did I guess right?
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@bb36e said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
maybe by windows 11, they can make it so the machine doesn't have to reboot to install updates?
this seems like it should be a solved problem.It's not because of the way memory management works; at best you could make it "only* require a full logout of all users and reboot of all affected Services.
And BTW, the same is true in Linux. If you update a vulnerability in libpng, it won't be "fixed" until every process using libpng is restarted in some fashion.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
By the way, I'm waiting for the $1000 US you agreed to give to me in the paper note that you never saw because you were asleep when I showed it to you.
If you can prove that, she'll make twice that back on the trespassing civil case.
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@blakeyrat said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
If you update a vulnerability in libpng, it won't be "fixed" until every process using libpng is restarted in some fashion.
It doesn't have to be like that, though. In a perfect world, the kernel could wait until the process isn't running libpng's code and then swap out the library while the process isn't looking.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit If Windows had dumped you out of fullscreen to see the dialog, your reaction would have been "How dare Windows dump me out of fullscreen!"
Of course, Windows couldn't just wait for me to answer the dialog, because FUCK YOU USER !!!
Fact of the matter is, you saw the dialog, postponed the reboot for four hours, then played a fullscreen game right through the grace period. Any normal person would have seen the dialog, thought "Oh, maybe I reboot for updates before playing a game for four hours", and not had a problem.
Fact of the matter is, no matter what, you will always find an excuse for MS's
stupiditydesign decision.
Because ... brainwashed.
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@ben_lubar said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
In a perfect world, the kernel could wait until the process isn't running libpng's code and then swap out the library while the process isn't looking.
Only if it can 100% guarantee there hasn't been any change in the API (especially data structures the application might be holding on to) between the two versions.
Look, I'm sure an OS could be designed to do this, but I don't think any current OS is it.
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@Jaloopa said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I get the impression that it learns what times you use your computer, so if you're regularly on at 3:30 AM it will piss you off initially but then adapt and set it to a time it's regularly not been in use.
One thing I never understood is why they don't use the "is this PC idling" function already built in. If the computer's currently in use, it's not that much of a leap to imagine that the user's gonna be pissed if you reboot!
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Of course, Windows couldn't just wait for me to answer the dialog
It waited ten minutes for you to stop being a total spanner and actually pay attention for once. Except you'd decided that it was more important to play a game instead of making sure your machine was properly updated.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
It waited ten minutes for you to stop being a total spanner and actually pay attention for once. Except you'd decided that it was more important to play a game instead of making sure your machine was properly updated.
Are you practicing to defend git?
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@Rhywden said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You know what happened just recently when I installed Ubuntu on a VM?
Please reboot to apply the updates
And what happened when you didn't reboot? Unless they've changed something lately, the answer is nothing.
Also, the only time that Ubuntu requires a reboot should be for an update to the kernel itself. And I've heard rumors that live patching for the kernel is almost ready.
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@Dragnslcr said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And what happened when you didn't reboot?
You're running an insecure system.
The point isn't whether the updater forces you to reboot or not; the point is whether the system is secure after the update or not.
In both Linux and Windows, unless you reboot (or, like I said above, log everybody out and restart all services) your computer is still insecure.
Windows considers that a big deal and will reboot to get out of that state. Linux does not force it as aggressively. But both systems have the same problem: the user saw an update happen, but their system isn't yet secure.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Except you'd decided that it was more important to play a game instead of making sure your machine was properly updated.
Emphasis added.
MY machine. I decide what's more important on it.Let me re-post my question that you deliberately ignored :
Is this OS soooooo insecure, that as soon as an update comes in, you absolutely have to reboot ASAP before you get hacked ?
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
~$ uptime
11:37:06 up 36 days, 23:54, 6 users, load average: 0.34, 0.24, 0.19You wanna fucking go??!
~$ uptime
10:32:01 up 1876 days, 8:10, 1 user, load average: 0.29, 0.09, 0.03
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
MY machine. I decide what's more important on it.
So fun is more important than security to you?
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Is this OS soooooo insecure, that as soon as an update comes in, you absolutely have to reboot ASAP before you get hacked ?
Except it didn't reboot as soon as it came in, did it? You delayed it by four hours, remember? And you could have done so again if you had more intelligence than a biro.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
And you could have done so again if you had set a timer to remind you that Windows would pop up the question again (which would happen beneath your full-screen app, because that's the behavior by default, because full-screen apps are expected to be topmost), and then go AFK for a few seconds to Alt-Tab out and answer the question again before lack of interaction implies consent
It's not really about security, it's about choice!
Filed under: {deity} damnit, I'm starting to sound like a SJW...
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Windows 7 only let me postpone the reboot for 4 hours max.
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
t's the FUCK YOU, I WILL REBOOT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT !
It doesn't just reboot without consent, even after postponing it.
When I used to have Windows 7 on my personal desktop, that thing went weeks with the popup sat waiting for a response.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
So fun is more important than security to you?
When I'm not dodging exploding gas stations and getting electrocuted by the outlets in my home? Absolutely.
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@flabdablet said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Does setting the startup type for the Windows Automatic Updates service to Disabled and then rebooting no longer work in W10?
It works, as does just stopping the service.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
So fun is more important than security to you?
I'm on my LAN, behind a good firewall (Linux based, of course), not using a browser/flash/java/outlook, only running one game in fullscreen, and I have an up-to-date AV. What chance do I have to get infected ?
ZOMYGOD ! Quick, apply all patch and reboot ASAP !!! and don't take any chances, put a condom and rubber gloves while doing it, you could get infected
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Is this OS soooooo insecure, that as soon as an update comes in, you absolutely have to reboot ASAP before you get hacked ?
Except it didn't reboot as soon as it came in, did it? You delayed it by four hours, remember? And you could have done so again if you had more intelligence than a biro.
Dodging the question, I see.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I'm on my LAN, behind a good firewall (Linux based, of course), not using a browser/flash/java/outlook, only running one game in fullscreen, and I have an up-to-date AV.
Because none of those could have any bugs or vulnerabilities whatsoever [/sarcasm]
@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Dodging the question, I see.
You mean the one you can already answer, because you've already admitted that the OS asks you if you want to install the updates now or later?
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@superjer said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
You wanna fucking go??!
~$ uptime
10:32:01 up 1876 days, 8:10, 1 user, load average: 0.29, 0.09, 0.03At my previous job, we retired a web server after 2117 days (5.8 years), thinking the hardware could fail soon.
It was up since day one.
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because none of those could have any bugs or vulnerabilities whatsoever [/sarcasm]
Why are you taking any chances with this ???
Quick, turn your machine off and unplug it from the wall, it's the only way to be safe !!!
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
Because none of those could have any bugs or vulnerabilities whatsoever [/sarcasm]
Why are you taking any chances with this ???
Quick, turn your machine off and unplug it from the wall, it's the only way to be safe !!!
You forgot to lock it into a safe, pour concrete around it and then to throw it into the Mariana Trench.
Only way to have a truly secure computer, regardless of OS.
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@TimeBandit I'm not taking security advice from someone who puts shooting aliens above closing a privilege escalation loophole
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I'm not taking security advice from someone who puts shooting aliens above closing a privilege escalation loophole
So you must also think Windows is wrong to allow the user to delay the updates?
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@RaceProUK The likelihood of any vulnerability being abused in the few minutes he's playing games from behind a firewall is minuscule. Wanting to finish what you're doing before it reboots is perfectly fine - which is why Windows gives you notice and the chance to postpone it.
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@loopback0 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
It doesn't just reboot without consent, even after postponing it.
When I used to have Windows 7 on my personal desktop, that thing went weeks with the popup sat waiting for a response.It only happened to me twice, because usually I get so annoyed at the popup that I press reboot.
B.t.w., it's Windows 7 Ultimate, if that makes any difference.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
At my previous job, we retired a web server after 2117 days (5.8 years), thinking the hardware could fail soon.
It was up since day one.If I hit 2117 days I'll retire this one out of reverence. :D
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@RaceProUK said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
@TimeBandit I'm not taking security advice from someone who puts shooting aliens above closing a privilege escalation loophole
Is that your way of saying that this OS is so insecure that you must apply every update ASAP ?
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@Rhywden Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
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@TimeBandit In the same way that a chocolate bar is the key to bringing peace to the Middle East
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@RaceProUK And here I was, thinking that the key was to make those suicide-bombers realize that the explosive is made in part with pork grease. Which means that when they get in front of Allah, they would be sent to hell since they have pork residues all over them.
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@TimeBandit said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
At my previous job, we retired a web server after 2117 days (5.8 years), thinking the hardware could fail soon.
If it's Windows, the challenge will be making past 21.17 days without needing a reboot to fix yet another critical bug…
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@FrostCat I still don't believe that three-day warning exists. One time I did see a little notification that a reboot was pending, but it showed up for maybe five seconds and appeared after I had rebooted.
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@mott555 said in More Windows 10 auto-update auto-reboot nonsense:
I still don't believe that three-day warning exists.
There is one in Windows 8.1, but you have to know where it is. It's on the logon screen in the bottom right corner and very easy to miss.