Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article)
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@AyGeePlus Probably
I figure there's no harm asking, but under no circumstances do you reply anything other than "Thank you very much" when you're given feedback or a rejection of feedback. It's not worth getting angry about a lack of feedback, nor about feedback that was incorrect: if you honestly can't find anywhere where you gave a mistaken impression, chalk it up to random happenstance and move on.
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Useful feedback would be nice, but I do expect at least more than radio silence. Even if it's at least a canned "We don't think you would be a good fit", I think it's pretty impolite to leave someone not knowing what, if anything, is happening.
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@Dragnslcr said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Useful feedback would be nice, but I do expect at least more than radio silence. Even if it's at least a canned "We don't think you would be a good fit", I think it's pretty impolite to leave someone not knowing what, if anything, is happening.
It's grossly unprofessional. It happens all the time. I hate it.
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@Shoreline said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
You're part of the human race. Do you want to contribute or not?
Not.
Where can I sign up for the "not" group?
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
If you went, didn't get the job, and got feedback that led you to improve yourself, it wasn't a waste of time.(1) If you went, didn't get the job, got the feedback, and told them to go fuck themselves sideways with a Lexus, then it was a waste of time.
(1) There might be "opportunity cost" issues meaning that it wasn't an optimal use of that time, but in the sense that you got something beneficial for it ("improved myself" sounds beneficial), it wasn't wasted.Like anything else, the more you practice interviews, the better you get at them.
My policy is to take 100% of interview offers, even if I'm not even slightly interested in the position. To get better at interviews.
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
My policy is to take 100% of interview offers, even if I'm not even slightly interested in the position. To get better at interviews.
I interviewed with a company that scored a zero on the Joel Test, wanted me to move to a cesspit (seriously, no hotels even within 50 miles that didn't have scary bad reviews), and needed someone to build a whole distributed scaling system from scratch before the whole edifice fell over under load (tomorrow).The money was exceptional but I didn't want the job. (They also didn't offer it to me. )
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@wft said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
"URGENT"
I learned a long time ago that anything marked "URGENT" usually isn't.
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@slapout1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
I learned a long time ago that anything marked "URGENT" usually isn't.
Yeah, apparently that's what our IT department thinks about the 'some devs cant even access source control you've broken the network so badly' ticket we've put in...
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@Magus said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Yeah, apparently that's what our IT department thinks about the 'some devs cant even access source control you've broken the network so badly' ticket we've put in...
The correct response there is “I've arranged a meeting with IT admin and the CTO to discuss this situation and how we might ensure it doesn't recur”. Don't fuck around; drop them in the shit.
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@dkf said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
The correct response there is “I've arranged a meeting with IT admin and the CTO to discuss this situation and how we might ensure it doesn't recur”. Don't fuck around; drop them in the shit.
The best part is, we just outsourced IT to these guys, and this is the first major incident probably. Their reaction time is absolutely pathetic.
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Where can I sign up for the "not" group?
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@Magus said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
The best part is, we just outsourced IT to these guys, and this is the first major incident probably. Their reaction time is absolutely pathetic.
Hah! Have your lawyer present in the meeting too then.
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@boomzilla Best onebox ever:
@dkf said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Hah! Have your lawyer present in the meeting too then.
I wish. I really, really wish.
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@Magus The point is, you want them to shit bricks for fucking up. Since this is a first incident and (presumably) didn't default to making the company's secrets world readable, you aren't going to kill the contract over this. But there's no reason you have to tell them that ahead of time.
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@dkf said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
@Magus The point is, you want them to shit bricks for fucking up. Since this is a first incident and (presumably) didn't default to making the company's secrets world readable, you aren't going to kill the contract over this. But there's no reason you have to tell them that ahead of time.
That sounds exactly like what I want, yes. No one else seems to mind too much. People seem to be able to get into TFS eventually, after 10 mins to half an hour. This would seriously have me firing people.
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@Shoreline said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
I was going for a job as a stripper.
Did you get the job?
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Not a very exciting job to do.
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Not a very exciting job to do.
Especially when machines do it for you...
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@xaade Oh good. Now it's about politics.
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@AyGeePlus said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
take 45 seconds to say 'sorry, looking for more webscale' or 'sorry, had a better applicant' or 'sorry, culture fit'. Use that last one is they smell bad or something.
Hell even a 'fuck off my lawn' is better than absolutely no answer!
@AyGeePlus said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
If almost an entire minute of thinking is too much effort to spend on someone once they are of no more use to you then I recommend business school, because you are clearly a business-lizard.
Or a nobody HR working most of the time at the front desk and hating engineers
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@dse said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Hell even a 'fuck off my lawn' is better than absolutely no answer!
I've had plenty of interviewers not get back to me over the years. Possibly more than I have heard negatives from.
These days I mostly get offers, due to practising my interview technique when I realised I was awful, and only applying for jobs I think I'd be able to do
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
My policy is to take 100% of interview offers, even if I'm not even slightly interested in the position. To get better at interviews.
How do you fill out your PTO request in the current job?
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@dse said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
How do you fill out your PTO request in the current job?
I don't take jobs where I have to fill out forms to spend a couple hours during the day interviewing. I just go.
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
@dse said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
How do you fill out your PTO request in the current job?
I don't take jobs where I have to fill out forms to spend a couple hours during the day interviewing. I just go.
Do you just go in your regular work clothes?
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@russ0519 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Do you just go in your regular work clothes?
I go in business casual, which is my regular work clothes, but I work with a lot of people who dress more casually than that. So you need to define "regular work clothes".
Nobody in my typical Seattle company, even the CEO, even the CEO meeting with the Board of Directors, would ever been seen in a suit.
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@blakeyrat Is blakeycorp hiring?
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@AyGeePlus Actually yes.
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I actually implemented a BFS today with a non-academic purpose. We have an org chart at work and I want to have an address book sorted by how far they are away from me in the org.
Useful for me so when I start typing a name, people I'm more likely to email show up at the top.
It only took a few minutes for the BFS.
Making the LDAP calls, hooking it into sqlite, making the graph took a bit of time.
But there is real value in understanding how BFS works and when it can be used. It isn't just for 2D mazes.And this time I wrote it in Python instead of php, so I can probably hook it into other Python projects I have.
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My experience has been so far (and happens less now than when I was more junior).
- Technical test which is blatantly and quite obviously some work for a client.
- Technical test which is building a whole web application. I don't mean like a simple web application, I mean something like "build us this web url shortener service using language X with a login system and make sure it uses OAuth somewhere".
- "We need more detail on you CV on technology X", Why couldn't they just ask me in the telephone interview? They obviously want to talk to me, but not enough to ask a question on the phone.
- Not being called after after leaving work early to take said telephone interview.
- Being left at reception when doing a face to face for 45 minutes. I normally plan to arrive at the very latest to a face to face 10 minutes before the interview is scheduled, just in case I get lost or have trouble parking etc.
- Being asked stupid questions about patterns I have never heard of. I got pissed off in one interview and basically said "look if I think the problem is complex enough I usually spend some time doing analysis first". I work primarily with CMS products and tbh most CMS products in .NET are in effect "Map CMS item to an POCO and display correctly on a webpage".
- Stupid questions that require me to memorise parts of MSDN. No I can't remember what namespace you would use for this, No I can't remember what Class name does what here. I know 5 or 6 programming languages fairly well now, and 2 of them are closely related (Java and C#). This is why the documentation exists in the first place.
- Stupid JS questions where you are expected to know what the fucking interpreter will do in a given unrealistic situation.
e.g. shit like this
new Array(16).join("someword' - 1)
I don't write stupid shit like this in the first place.
I honestly don't know what half of it achieves other than frustrating me (maybe that is the point). It feels like a total waste of time.
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@lucas1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
new Array(16).join("someword' - 1)
Nothing.... actually.... it would just fizzle.
Oh you meannew Array(16).join("someword" - 1)
Well, since you have 16 empties, probably return ("someword" - 1) concatenated 15 times.
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> new Array(16).join("someword" - 1) >"NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN"
This is in the Chrome console btw.
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@lucas1 Yep, that's 15 ("someword" - 1).....
Don't know why it's useful to presume what apparently bad code might do.
Amazon pulled the same shit on me.
"What would it do?"
"I don't know, it's undefined. Look I've already spotted the bad code, why do I need to know exactly how bad it is? I can tell visibly that it's not doing what someone must intend."
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@xaade Yeh.
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(new Array(16).join("someword" - 1)).split("someword" - 1).length;
Prints 16.
At least it's consistent.
C# would return an empty set (if you tell it not to return empty values).
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>typeof(15, "a") "string"
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Everyone knows that one.
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@lucas1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
I honestly don't know what half of it achieves other than frustrating me (maybe that is the point). It feels like a total waste of time.
Allows them to put some pointless tick in some box which makes the HR drones happy.
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@lucas1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
"NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN"
...Batman!
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@loopback0 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
@lucas1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
"NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN"
...Batman!
In other news new if you quote some text, highlight and then hit ctrl-b to bold it most of it gets deleted.
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@loopback0 That certainly seems to be the case.
Then again I have been in places where it was worth having the HR department ... so swings and roundabouts.
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@lucas1 said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Everyone knows that one.
Yup. Syntax error and equality. Oh, you didn't mean C++?
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@blakeyrat said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
If you went, didn't get the job, and got feedback that led you to improve yourself, it wasn't a waste of time.(1) If you went, didn't get the job, got the feedback, and told them to go fuck themselves sideways with a Lexus, then it was a waste of time.
(1) There might be "opportunity cost" issues meaning that it wasn't an optimal use of that time, but in the sense that you got something beneficial for it ("improved myself" sounds beneficial), it wasn't wasted.Like anything else, the more you practice interviews, the better you get at them.
My policy is to take 100% of interview offers, even if I'm not even slightly interested in the position. To get better at interviews.
Is the market that bad in seattle? A senior dev would be doing like 3 interviews a week if actively looking for a job here. At least it was so two years ago last time I tried.
Or you just mean unsolicited interview requests?
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@fbmac It was like that when I started looking as a junior dev. I switched my LinkedIn relationship status from "in a relationship" to "It's complicated" and I got recruiters hitting me up nonstop in Seattle, and this was nine months ago.
The only annoying part is that while I was doing interviews, a certain article about a certain company named after a river was published, and I was frequently asked if I ever cried at my desk.
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@DogsB said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
In other news new if you quote some text, highlight and then hit ctrl-b to bold it most of it gets deleted.
E_NO_REPRO
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@theBread I got a bunch this week just for putting my current job in, despite not saying I'm looking. They have some serious automated triggers.
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Army private conscripts get paid 50$ per month.
Army sergeant conscripts get paid 100$ per month.You serve for 2 years. No cellphones allowed. No internet. You probably get about 20 days per year to see your family.
That's Korean conscription for you, to give you some idea what it's like :D
Oh btw, the head of the ministry of Women called these conscripts "house keeping dogs" and "future rapists".
Gotto feel proud to be protecting their own country for peanuts!
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@Onyx
Ok what country would that be? Last time I checked, Ukraine was considering to abolish conscription. So some place more horrible than that?
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@Ascendant said in Fuck You, I Quit - Hiring Is Broken (article):
Army private conscripts get paid 50$ per month.
Army sergeant conscripts get paid 100$ per month.You serve for 2 years. No cellphones allowed. No internet. You probably get about 20 days per year to see your family.
That's Korean conscription for you, to give you some idea what it's like :D
Oh btw, the head of the ministry of Women called these conscripts "house keeping dogs" and "future rapists".
Gotto feel proud to be protecting their own country for peanuts!
Hold on a second!
50$!!! That is way much more during my conscription. I had only gotten 20$.
The finishing touch for Singapore conscription is that after the 2 years mandatory full-time service, we get classified under reserves, and for reserves, we need to attend mandatory 1 month training every year for 10 years, totaling it to 12 years of interruptions to our daily lives.
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@Ascendant I wouldn't say it's worse, it's just the stupid is strong in this one. It's Croatia, or moonland as I like to refer to it.