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My mind is deranged, to be sure, but I refuse to believe that it is so deranged as to produce this place.
My money is on @Arantor
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Wait, what? We're all figments of @Arantor's deranged mind?
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Wait, what? We're all figments of @Arantor's deranged mind?
Either that, or bits of PHP code that became concious.
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Could it be that you are everyone who isn't me?
Have you been taking Spectate Swamp's glaucoma medication again?
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I see what you did there ...
I don't because Discourse sent me an empty reply notification.
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Yeah, me too.
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@cvi - Days Since Last Discourse Bug: 0
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@ben_lubar - Days Since Last Discourse Bug: 0
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Either that, or bits of PHP code that became concious.
Awww, I'm touched guys, touched, I tell you. But not yet touched in the head by an angel.
I have my laptop back, I am currently fed up with the code I am doing so it's time to troll everyone here and catch up on the 1215 notifications I have unread.
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I have my laptop back,
Congrats!
so it's time to troll everyone here
on a stick!
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I have not yet even begun to troll.
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Work harder, not smarter!
No, before you get to the 'work' state, you have to master 'trying to work'.
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you have to master 'trying to work'.
Meh, journeyman status is probably OK.
I had a customer fuss today because "all of a sudden" some formatting in a table cell that I haven't touched in years is centered instead of left-justified. Can't repro locally. Eff it, add "style=text-align:left;" to a bunch of places. Problem solved.
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Meh, journeyman status is probably OK.
I had a customer fuss today because "all of a sudden" some formatting in a table cell that I haven't touched in years is centered instead of left-justified. Can't repro locally. Eff it, add "style=text-align:right;" to a bunch of places. Problem solved.
That's what I mean... 'trying to work' needs mastering when text-align: right is needed to fix missing left alignment.
That's almost like:
strong, b { font-weight: normal; font-style: italic; }
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I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.
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```
strong, b { font-weight: normal; font-style: italic; }That's just evil. I approve! Also, <s>bad</s> evil ideas thread, arrows.png
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That's just evil. I approve!
Also, <s>bad</s> evil ideas thread, arrows.png
It is awesome trying to watch front-end devs debug this shit.
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It is awesome trying to watch front-end devs debug this shit.
That's why CtrlShiftI is the best thing since tabbed browsing,
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That's why <kbd>Ctrl</kbd><kbd>Shift</kbd><kbd>I</kbd> is the best thing since tabbed browsing,
Wait, that's a thing? I've been using F12 all this time.
Yes, but even so, watching them debug it is hilarious.
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It is awesome trying to watch front-end devs debug this shit.
Or us complain about asterisks italicizing instead of bolding, no doubt. The original Markdown author deserves a boot to the balls for that.
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Or us complain about asterisks italicizing instead of bolding, no doubt. The original Markdown author deserves a boot to the balls for that.
That is not so amusing.
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That's why CtrlShiftI is the best thing since tabbed browsing,
That opens my history/favorites in IE.
Also--oh, look what stripping off the kbd tags did to your quote.
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That is not so amusing.
Yes, hence my suggestion.
I still how that guy--who is apparently a grade-A fucktard--ignored @codinghorror for months if not longer, then waited until AFTER Jeff named his new version "Common Markdown" or whatever to bitch about it. I would have told him to fuck off--from context on codinghorror.com, the guy didn't just take a sabbatical to someplace with no internet; he actively ignored Jeff on this one topic.
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The funny part is that I have more sympathy for the other guy than I do for Jeff on this one, and not just on principle.
Markdown is inherently vague, sure. But it's still 'Markdown'. If I were to come along and try to claim ownership of it and formalise it, that's treading on that guy's toes.
Yes, it was a dick move, but it was a dick move in response to a much bigger dick move.
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If I were to come along and try to claim ownership
But he didn't--he asked, while in conversation with the guy, and got no response either way, for an extended period of time., and IIRC they were still talking about other things, or at least the guy was still maintaining an active Internet presence elsewhere.
Perhaps Jeff could have asked the guy half a dozen more times, but based on what he said at the time, I would have thought it was reasonable to assume silence = consent. Because who WOULDN'T say "no, I'd prefer if you don't" when asked
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Yes but Jeff is an internet douche of repute, it is not especially easy to argue with an ego that large.
Also if you're talking about this conversation occurring on Jeff's blog, I wouldn't put it past Jeff to delete stuff to make his own side look more credible.
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Yes but Jeff is an internet douche of repute, it is not especially easy to argue with an ego that large.
Sorry, I think you're being wrong here. I don't think Jeff would have ignored or gone against the guy's express wishes. And for evidence, look at what happened immediately after the dude finally broke his silence.
I think you're letting other opinions confuse WTF was going on in this case.
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I only saw part of the story, because I'm not actually that bothered by the outcome. All I really saw of it was what looked like Jeff being a douche and some other guy being a douche and what smelled like Jeff trying to claim the name of something else for his own pet project.
At this stage I also can't be bothered to read up on what actually happened because I doubt it would improve my opinion of Jeff any.
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...and what smelled like Jeff trying to claim the name of something else for his own pet project.
It was a derived name. And it's not like he just went and did it or anything. I hold the other guy completely doucheful on this one.
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Fair enough. Like I say, I don't actually care enough to get all the facts and I don't even mind admitting I'm biased on this one.
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Also if you're talking about this conversation occurring on Jeff's blog, I wouldn't put it past Jeff to delete stuff to make his own side look more credible.
You can read what he posted there. It's codinghorror.com, if you didn't already know; the relevant posts were, IIRC, early September. I don't know if I had read here enough about his shenanigans here and on meta.d at that point, to not take what he wrote there at face value.
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And it's not like he just went and did it or anything. I hold the other guy completely doucheful on this one.
Right. IIRC he asked at least twice over a several-month period, and the guy was otherwise in contact with him over that period. IMAO, it's not unacceptable to treat no response as assent. I will admit, he should've pushed for it, but, I dunno, I don't really hold it against him.
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You can read what he posted there. It's codinghorror.com, if you didn't already know; the relevant posts were, IIRC, early September. I don't know if I had read here enough about his shenanigans here and on meta.d at that point, to not take what he wrote there at face value.
Yes but that means wading through the rest of the seemingly self-aggrandising bullshit to find it.
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Yes but that means wading through the rest of the seemingly self-aggrandising bullshit to find it.
http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common-markdown/ and, more importantly, the post before that.
You just KNOW the couple of almost-most recent posts are about us.
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http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common-markdown/ and, more importantly, the post before that.
You just KNOW the couple of almost-most recent posts are about us.
So, it is largely what I thought it was: Jeff buttuming that he was OK to use his choice of name for a project without getting permission (I see no obvious indication of a trademark being registered but let's put that aside for a minute) and being a bit pissy about it. Gracious, more so than I expected, but ultimately pissy.
The presumption that Standard Markdown would be acceptable because Github Flavored Markdown is a thing... no. That's arrogant.
GFM clearly indicates it is derived from as opposed to trying to be the definitive thing.
Let me give you a better example. If I fork Discourse, fix a bunch of stuff and call it Standard Discourse, you really think Jeff isn't going to get pissy with me for it? Of course he is. This is what happened here.
Just because Gruber didn't reply does not give Jeff carte blanche to act. And if this is actually a trademark, then it definitely is not good enough to 'ask and if they don't respond it's probably OK'.
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So, it is largely what I thought it was: Jeff buttuming that he was OK to use his choice of name for a project without getting permission (I see no obvious indication of a trademark being registered but let's put that aside for a minute) and being a bit pissy about it. Gracious, more so than I expected, but ultimately pissy.
I'm not sure why he'd need permission. Legally or anything.
Let me give you a better example. If I fork Discourse, fix a bunch of stuff and call it Standard Discourse, you really think Jeff isn't going to get pissy with me for it? Of course he is. This is what happened here.
I think if you asked Jeff about it, he would have told you that he thought you shouldn't do that. Or, he might have not cared. There is an unaffiliated DiscourseHosting service out there, after all.
Just because Gruber didn't reply does not give Jeff carte blanche to act. And if this is actually a trademark, then it definitely is not good enough to 'ask and if they don't respond it's probably OK'.
If it's a real trademark, then maybe that's a thing, but I've never seen evidence of this. Sorry, but I think you're still 180° wrong here and grinding an axe against Jeff.
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If there's a trademark - a very quick search did not yield anything, but that's no surprise - permission will be required.
Assuming no trademark, permission isn't required as a requirement but it is a cool thing to get. However we then get into the realm of what is 'cool' to do and the blowback that can emerge. The problem is not creating a spec, the problem is not creating a notionally 'definitive' version. The problem is the name.
And if someone came along and took something I made, and created a project calling and purporting itself to be the definitive version, I would be pissed too. Are you telling me you wouldn't be?
Bear in mind I have actually been on both sides of this little spat in other things I've done. I know I would be pissed about this stuff.
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And if someone came along and took something I made, and created a project calling and purporting itself to be the definitive version, I would be pissed too. Are you telling me you wouldn't be?
I might or might not be. If I was, and they asked me if I was, I'd say, "Yes."
I know I would be pissed about this stuff.
Would you say so immediately when they contacted you, or do the passive aggressive douche thing?
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Would you say so immediately when they contacted you, or do the passive aggressive douche thing?
And that's the issue. I won't disagree Jeff's not nailing down acceptance before using the name was douchey--[1]but ignoring people while not dropping off the face of the Internet, and THEN coming back to complain is much douchier.
[1] Apparently you cannot type d o u c h e y dash dash in the browser, at least in IE: hitting the second dash makes the y vanish.
Oh, but only the first time? I can't repro it in this footnote, but the first time, after it ate the y 3 times, I typed y dash space dash left arrow backspace.
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And that's the issue. I won't disagree Jeff's not nailing down acceptance before using the name was douchey--[1]but ignoring people while not dropping off the face of the Internet, and THEN coming back to complain is much douchier.
And that's after coming up with the philosophy behind markdown in the first place.
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And that's after coming up with the philosophy behind markdown in the first place.
Oh, well, yeah, that's probably the douchiest move of 'em all, although honestly I can understand why he did it, and unlike other people around here I won't link to the relevant XKCD.
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Pro-tip: People think you're a douche? Get in fight with an even bigger douche.
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Pro-tip: People think you're a douche? Get in fight with an even bigger douche.
What does that do, make them think you're the bigger douche after all?
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Pro-tip: People think you're a douche? Get in fight with an even bigger douche.
It worked for Stalin, at least for a few years.