Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@M_Adams Someone's channeling his inner German today.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
When you’ve defeated all the Karens and have to take on the final boss.
Sounds like a Scott Pilgrim style plot.
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@ixvedeusi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
It can probably vote.
Weird. For Swedish, Google translate recognizes "det kan nog stämma" -> "that may be true". The Norwegian phrase is likely the same, but Google insists on translating it to the voting thing. Either way, I'm pretty sure the correct translation is "That's probably true/correct" or similar.
Yes.
The first one is "That's probably true. Down to the trees in the end it's about 450m"
The second one is "Unless I've missed something obvious, this lamp is at the south side/end of Søndre street."
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There are now more and more reports of severe lung damage and, in some cases, heart damage even in asymptomatic COVID-19 cases. Seems like we should be more scared of the long-term health effects than we currently are.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
There are now more and more reports of severe lung damage and, in some cases, heart damage even in asymptomatic COVID-19 cases. Seems like we should be more scared of the long-term health effects than we currently are.
Considering the numbers are probably in the hundreds of millions of infected, I'd like to see some numbers for severe problems for asymptomatic people before I start worrying. If it's tens of thousands of people that have gotten damaged lungs, its still pretty insignificant numbers.
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@Carnage
According to the sources I've read (CBA to look for them ATM as I have actual work to do), it seems like COVID-19 can cause blood clots in the lung and coronary arteries even in patients without the typical risk factors, which is why CT scans show severe lung damage even if they didn't develop pneumonia. For obvious reasons, these studies are still ongoing, so there's no hard data on how widespread these symptoms are yet, but it already makes the idea of simply keeping infections rates low and waiting for herd immunity sound a lot less appealing to me.
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@dfdub Not only clotting in the lungs - we have reports of major strokes as well. Also, the way the clots form is worrying.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage
According to the sources I've read (CBA to look for them ATM as I have actual work to do), it seems like COVID-19 can cause blood clots in the lung and coronary arteries even in patients without the typical risk factors, which is why CT scans show severe lung damage even if they didn't develop pneumonia. For obvious reasons, these studies are still ongoing, so there's no hard data on how widespread these symptoms are yet, but it already makes the idea of simply keeping infections rates low and waiting for herd immunity sound a lot less appealing to me.There isn't really going to be much of an alternative for a year or two at best. People will end up with problems from having the infection, that's just how it is with these things. The important question is how many get severe damage to organs. Until there are hard numbers, you shouldn't react to there being averse effects of catching a novel disease. Especially if the alternatives are a lot worse than a subset of unknown size of the people that catch it will have averse effects.
The only other alternative until vaccines are developed is to lock down the entire world, completely and utterly for several months, where there is no social movement at all, anywhere, by anyone. This is not possible to do. For a whole host of reasons.
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The only other alternative until vaccines are developed is to lock down the entire world, completely and utterly for several months, where there is no social movement at all, anywhere, by anyone. This is not possible to do. For a whole host of reasons.
That's a false dichotomy. Obviously, we can't do that and nobody sane would suggest it.
What I meant is that we might have to get used to some restrictions (no large gatherings, masks in public, working from home mandatory where possible, etc.) for a lot longer than just a few more weeks.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The only other alternative until vaccines are developed is to lock down the entire world, completely and utterly for several months, where there is no social movement at all, anywhere, by anyone. This is not possible to do. For a whole host of reasons.
That's a false dichotomy. Obviously, we can't do that and nobody sane would suggest it.
What I meant is that we might have to get used to some restrictions (no large gatherings, masks in public, working from home mandatory where possible, etc.) for a lot longer than just a few more weeks.
The only thing that does is slow the spread, the same amount of people will still catch it, pretty much. It's the very method used to keep spread slow, the thing you said sounded unappealing.
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Also, without hard data on the number of blood clot problems, how can you tell it's not from people suddenly going extremely sedimentary? It's normal for a higher occurrence of blood clots when you're being very still. Such as sitting on a couch in front of a TV all day, because you're not allowed to go outside.
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Also, without hard data on the number of blood clot problems, how can you tell it's not from people suddenly going extremely sedimentary? It's normal for a higher occurrence of blood clots when you're being very still. Such as sitting on a couch in front of a TV all day, because you're not allowed to go outside.
I'm pretty sure a sedentary lifestyle due to the lockdown doesn't lead to a sudden, dramatic increase in blood clots. That would be a gradual, long-term change.
If experienced doctors find the blood clots they find in their COVID-19 patients noteworthy, I'm sure there's more to it than that. They deal with couch potatoes all day.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Also, without hard data on the number of blood clot problems, how can you tell it's not from people suddenly going extremely sedimentary? It's normal for a higher occurrence of blood clots when you're being very still. Such as sitting on a couch in front of a TV all day, because you're not allowed to go outside.
I'm pretty sure a sedentary lifestyle due to the lockdown doesn't lead to a sudden, dramatic increase in blood clots. That would be a gradual, long-term change.
If experienced doctors find the blood clots they find in their COVID-19 patients noteworthy, I'm sure there's more to it than that. They deal with couch potatoes all day.
We're talking hundreds of millions of people here still. Large numbers and all that.
And a few weeks is plenty enough for blood clots to start happening. Just ask anyone that works in a SCI care unit.
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@Carnage Younger people are usually not subject to clotting issues, though, regardless of being sedentary or not.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage Younger people are usually not subject to clotting issues, though, regardless of being sedentary or not.
They are if they suddenly start being very still. Such as going for long trips on airplanes. It's more common in elderly, but when you people go sedimentary, they also develop those problems.
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage Younger people are usually not subject to clotting issues, though, regardless of being sedentary or not.
They are if they suddenly start being very still. Such as going for long trips on airplanes. It's more common in elderly, but when you people go sedimentary, they also develop those problems.
Not really. Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people. Also, you mean "sedentary", we're not talking about ossification after all.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I'm pretty sure a sedentary lifestyle due to the lockdown doesn't lead to a sudden, dramatic increase in blood clots.
Speak for yourself!
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage Younger people are usually not subject to clotting issues, though, regardless of being sedentary or not.
They are if they suddenly start being very still. Such as going for long trips on airplanes. It's more common in elderly, but when you people go sedimentary, they also develop those problems.
Not really. Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Again, we're talking really large numbers here, and no data at all on the blood clotting issues.
There are young people that take blood thinners because of their risk of blood clots. With these very large numbers of people, there will be enough of the young people with undiagnosed issues that cause a higher chance of blood clots.Also, you mean "sedentary", we're not talking about ossification after all.
Well, if we wait long enough I'll have used the correct word.
Correction taken though.
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@Carnage Well, there's also the fact how those clots form and what types.
Remember, those are comparatively huge clots which close off major arteries, not mere side branches. And one doctor even reported that he saw a clot form in situ directly after removing the first one.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage Well, there's also the fact how those clots form and what types.
Remember, those are comparatively huge clots which close off major arteries, not mere side branches. And one doctor even reported that he saw a clot form in situ directly after removing the first one.
Was the clot peer reviewed?
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
go sedimentary
True, some people are worth no more than a pile of rocks...
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Cawnyage Weww, thewe's awso the fact how those cwots fowm and what types.
Wemembew, those awe compawativewy huge cwots which cwose off majow awtewies, nyot mewe side bwanches. And onye doctow even wepowted that he saw a cwot fowm in situ diwectwy aftew wemoving the fiwst onye.For the betterment of my sanity I have turned on OwO for the site. I hope you're all happy...
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I'm pretty sure a sedentary lifestyle due to the lockdown doesn't lead to a sudden, dramatic increase in blood clots. That would be a gradual, long-term change.
I developed a blood clot in only 10 days after my lower leg was immobilized after a surgery. The doctor said it's fairly common and happens quickly in people who are used to being very active who suddenly become sedentary. (I was fairly active even when "immobilized" but I had whole muscle groups I couldn't move and that's where the clot happened.)
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@Applied-Mediocrity This deserves a
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Is obesity a factor for blood clots, or an indicator that the person may have a lifestyle that increases the risk factors? AIUI, it was a pretty big common factor in many of the cases of severe covid symptoms in young people. If a bunch of fatsos who would normally get out of bed and go to work every day suddenly all stop doing that, I could see that increasing the incidence of blood clots which normally wouldn't be common
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@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Is obesity a factor for blood clots, or an indicator that the person may have a lifestyle that increases the risk factors? AIUI, it was a pretty big common factor in many of the cases of severe covid symptoms in young people. If a bunch of fatsos who would normally get out of bed and go to work every day suddenly all stop doing that, I could see that increasing the incidence of blood clots which normally wouldn't be common
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
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On a positive note: aren't we all?
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Is obesity a factor for blood clots, or an indicator that the person may have a lifestyle that increases the risk factors? AIUI, it was a pretty big common factor in many of the cases of severe covid symptoms in young people. If a bunch of fatsos who would normally get out of bed and go to work every day suddenly all stop doing that, I could see that increasing the incidence of blood clots which normally wouldn't be common
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
I'm at least delaying mine a little with Xarelto. (Yeah, I had a DVT leading to a pulmonary embolism a couple years ago)
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@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
a bunch of fatsos
Fat shaming thread is .
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
If you gotta go, that's a good way to do it.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
If you gotta go, that's a good way to do it.
Not so much for your partner...
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Is obesity a factor for blood clots, or an indicator that the person may have a lifestyle that increases the risk factors? AIUI, it was a pretty big common factor in many of the cases of severe covid symptoms in young people. If a bunch of fatsos who would normally get out of bed and go to work every day suddenly all stop doing that, I could see that increasing the incidence of blood clots which normally wouldn't be common
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
I'm at least delaying mine a little with Xarelto. (Yeah, I had a DVT leading to a pulmonary embolism a couple years ago)
And sadly I had just started to go back to the gym for the first time in a couple years and then in early February, I'm like fuck a gym is a hotbed of germs.
Though, I'll probably be biking more than I would since I get "home" 2 hours earlier now.
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
If you gotta go, that's a good way to do it.
Not so much for your partner...
God, yeah, that would be awful. It would have to be simultaneous death.
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@hungrier said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Only if they have certain risk factors which, again, are not as common in younger people.
Is obesity a factor for blood clots, or an indicator that the person may have a lifestyle that increases the risk factors? AIUI, it was a pretty big common factor in many of the cases of severe covid symptoms in young people. If a bunch of fatsos who would normally get out of bed and go to work every day suddenly all stop doing that, I could see that increasing the incidence of blood clots which normally wouldn't be common
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
I'm at least delaying mine a little with Xarelto. (Yeah, I had a DVT leading to a pulmonary embolism a couple years ago)
And sadly I had just started to go back to the gym for the first time in a couple years and then in early February, I'm like fuck a gym is a hotbed of germs.
Though, I'll probably be biking more than I would since I get "home" 2 hours earlier now.
That reminds me of the people making fun of the ad where the husband got the wife an exercise bike. And then all this started and that joke turned around!
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Fuck. I'm gonna die!
If you gotta go, that's a good way to do it.
Not so much for your partner...
Sex with a necrophiliac? Over my dead body.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage Well, there's also the fact how those clots form and what types.
Remember, those are comparatively huge clots which close off major arteries, not mere side branches. And one doctor even reported that he saw a clot form in situ directly after removing the first one.
Yes, and I'd definitely like to see research going into it for a good base to make decisions.
In Sweden, the newspapers are talking about how to lower your blood pressure, saying that as if it'd help. I am not particularly convinced that is the correct conclusion either.But in happier news, it looks like sweden has actually crested in number of deaths now.
Deaths per day.
And a different view on the same statistic:
Confirmed cases is still looking a bit wonky.
Possibly because of the ramping up of tests.And here is a map of the density of cases in Sweden. Cases per 100 000 inhabitants. Darker is more.
The the data for the graphs are from these guys:
The band across and up towards the border of Norway is pretty much a diffuse map of the routes people go to go skiing in the mountains, so I'd make a WAG and say that people brought the infection from stockholm up that way doing spring break, at the very start of the pandemic.
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edit to add link from Ars:
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The only thing that does is slow the spread, the same amount of people will still catch it, pretty much. It's the very method used to keep spread slow, the thing you said sounded unappealing.
Well, if you do it for a while, containment might become a viable option.
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@Carnage I have to warn you about those Finland numbers. Testing is strictly capped to 1200/day, and has been from the start. Most cases are not tested or treated, and do not appear in the statistics.
The current litmus test for getting admitted for Coronavirus: If you can make the 112 call yourself, you're not bad enough.
Remember: Happiest nation on Earth.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage I have to warn you about those Finland numbers. Testing is strictly capped to 1200/day, and has been from the start. Most cases are not tested or treated, and do not appear in the statistics.
The current litmus test for getting admitted for Coronavirus: If you can make the 112 call yourself, you're not bad enough.
Remember: Happiest nation on Earth.
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This post is deleted!
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
All fictional plagues are now going to happen in December, aren't they.
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Amid all these tales of underreporting, I thought I'd share one I heard the other day to do with some overreporting of COVID deaths. I heard this from a neighbour of mine, a very nice Muslim lady.
Apparently, at least in the UK right now, there's a long queue for confirming the manner of death for people who are dying of non-COVID reasons; it can can take several weeks for the paperwork to be finalized and the body released to the next of kin. For most families, this isn't a big deal, but for Muslims it is as they've got a religious commandment to get on with getting the deceased in the ground. (I think they've got a strict time limit on it under almost all circumstances.) This makes that delay a big problem for them.
The fix is ingenious though. They ask the doctor to declare that the dear departed left this mortal coil due to the effects of COVID, which gets the body released quickly (the paperwork for this is expedited) and the family can get on with the funeral. Everyone happy. Except… this inflates the official death figures for COVID. Sometimes you've just got to laugh.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
For most families, this isn't a big deal, but for Muslims it is as they've got a religious commandment to get on with getting the deceased in the ground. (I think they've got a strict time limit on it under almost all circumstances.)
A day, I think. Ah, according to Wikipedia:
Burial is usually within 24 hours of death to protect the living from any sanitary issues, except in the case of a person killed in battle or when foul play is suspected; in those cases it is important to determine the cause of death before burial.
Though this, as with so many religious rules, isn’t all that necessary with modern technology — but people of course still want to stick to it because it’s a religious rule.
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More Florida numbers (and an annoyance)
Annoyance: They keep changing the darn reporting site! Every day the interface is different, the provided data is different (different things reported, not different numbers for previous days), and some of the graphs just make absolutely no sense (really, you put a bar graph where advancing x-axis is down?) Why can't you just keep things stable? Just a bit?
Different numbers: Now they're reporting health metrics as well. 4 different ones: new cases (obvious), flu-like ER visits (including urgent care), COVID-like ER visits, and % positive. I'm assuming that those numbers are weekly averages, because that makes them line up with the bar graphs elsewhere.