Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!)
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Remember how ever responsible company has spent the past decade or so rigorously testing automated cars-- spending MILLIONS of manhours working the AI, the systems, the safety systems? How they field test only under very controlled conditions, and working hand-in-hand with government bodies and regulators to ensure that this emergent technology is as safe as possible, with as much oversight as possible-- not only for the purposes of developing the company, but putting government and citizen fears at ease?
Yeah, we remember all that. Uber, however, is all about DISRUPTION because they're DIFFERENT and are REVOLUTIONIZING
exploiting workers like slaves, putting everyone in every major city at risk, and generally being sociopathic assholes who feel they are above the lawthe industry, yo!o wait no they're fucking asshole murderers
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I don't know, it should be much easier to fix the self-driving vehicle to stop running over more people than fixing human drivers to do the same.
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@createdtodislikethis said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I don't know, it should be much easier to fix the self-driving vehicle to stop running over more people than fixing human drivers to do the same.
Yes, I personally can't wait until self-driving cars are perfected (enough) and made mandatory, with "drive your own" a highly specialized license that's as hard to get as a pilot's license. I absolutely want the self-centered, selfish, idiotic, blind-drunk-texting meat-CPUs to stop operating death-projectiles around fragile meat-bags.
BUT-- that tech isn't ready for prime time yet. Limited and highly controlled tests to gather more data and improve the cars? Sure!
Being a fucking asshole who decides "lol i want to have pr and not pay humans" and then throw a bunch of untested CPU-guided death-missiles onto the street and hoping for the best?
Fuck Uber.
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So let me get this straight.
This is the first ever car crash death from a self-driving car, after they've been on the road for a while.
What's that statistic on car deaths? Over three thousand a day?
I'd say it's a pretty good track record. Better than humans.
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@pie_flavor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
This is the first ever car crash death from a self-driving car
Wrong.
I'd say it's a pretty good track record.
Where's your data on how it will scale up if you put them on the road en-masse right now?
Oh right that data doesn't exist. Because the tech is still being worked on and improved and that data is still being gathered.
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Please note that there was a backup human driver present there, sitting behind the wheel.
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@createdtodislikethis said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I don't know, it should be much easier to fix the self-driving vehicle to stop running over more people than fixing human drivers to do the same.
If only they had started that project before it had actually murdered a person.
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Oh right that data doesn't exist. Because the tech is still being worked on and improved and that data is still being gathered.
Not to mention they only test these cars in places like, say, Arizona which have the easiest driving conditions in the fucking world.
You get that robot car to successful complete a trip in a Detroit blizzard and I'll be impressed.
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Their self driving car fucked up. This is a fucking accident or manslaughter (maybe) IANAL.
@Lorne-Kates I am sure you wouldn't be sperging if it was google.
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I bet it was running linux
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@blakeyrat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
You get that robot car to successful complete a trip in a Detroit blizzard and I'll be impressed.
The fuckers are operating in Toronto right now.
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@bb36e Linus better be in the dock then ;-)
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
The fuckers are operating in Toronto right now.
Oh that's good, Canadian lives are worthless.
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@bb36e said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I bet it was running linux
It might've even been a Linux hardware problem or open source!
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@blakeyrat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
The fuckers are operating in Toronto right now.
Oh that's good, Canadian lives are worthless.
The exchange rate isn't that bad…
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@GodEmperor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Their self driving car fucked up.
Yes. It fucked up in production when it wasn't ready to be in production, and when no self-driving car is ready for production, and when EVERY self-driving car company isn't ready for production, and when every government regulator is saying "uh no" and when the majority of citizen are like "OMFG THESE THINGS WILL KIEL PEOIPLE BECAUSE FEAR!!!".
@GodEmperor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
This is a fucking accident or manslaughter (maybe) IANAL.
You aren't ANYTHING. Except a dumb cunt. That you're EVERYTHING.
@GodEmperor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@Lorne-Kates I am sure you wouldn't be sperging if it was google.
Funnily enough, Google (one of the most evil corporations on the planet) isn't throwing cars at people without regulation and oversight.
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@lorne-kates can you use my real forum name please. I am sure someone linked my account to @SlackerD 's old troll account. But it just makes me more confused.
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@GodEmperor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates can you use my real forum name please.
I am.
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@lorne-kates No you aren't
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@GodEmperor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates No you aren't
I know you're drunk most of the time, but your name is CLEARLY right there.
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@bb36e said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@blakeyrat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
The fuckers are operating in Toronto right now.
Oh that's good, Canadian lives are worthless.
The exchange rate isn't that bad…
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@lucas1 said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates Nope
I am not GodEmperor... I am Lucas.
GotEmperor was one of SlackerD's alts.
So now you admit to have TWO alts.
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This does remind me of:
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@blakeyrat said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
The fuckers are operating in Toronto right now.
Oh that's good, Canadian lives are worthless.
I thought they were worth 3/5 of a life
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I absolutely want the self-centered, selfish, idiotic, blind-drunk-texting meat-CPUs to stop operating death-projectiles around fragile meat-bags.
I just want to point out that this CPU isn't made of meat.
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@lorne-kates said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Funnily enough, Google (one of the most evil corporations on the planet) isn't throwing cars at people without regulation and oversight.
You fucking retard:
The greater Phoenix area, which includes Tempe, plays host to autonomous test programs from Uber, Intel Corp., General Motors Co. and Waymo, the startup that sprung from Google’s self-driving car project.
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Now, I am not a fan of Uber in any way but considering the quote of the police officer saying that the woman was stepping out from behind a tree, wearing black and being in a shaded area and just stepping out into traffic where there were no pedestrian crossing in such a way as that it would have been hard for a meatsack operated vehicle to avoid hitting her makes it hard to actually lay any particular blame for her dying at the feet of Uber and it's more a case of a Darwin award nominee walking blindly into moving traffic (that apparently was going 35 mph).
I would guess that her attention was entirely directed at a smartphone, instead of the heavy metal objects hurtling past as she stepped into the street.
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@carnage said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
a case of a Darwin award nominee
Also, there's the general matter that anyone expecting perfect safety at all times hasn't the slightest idea how the world actually works. A substantially reduced accident rate and/or severity compared to meatbag drivers is actually good enough…
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@carnage said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
a case of a Darwin award nominee
Also, there's the general matter that anyone expecting perfect safety at all times hasn't the slightest idea how the world actually works. A substantially reduced accident rate and/or severity compared to meatbag drivers is actually good enough…
Yeah, all that said, I was actually rather pertubed when Volvo announced their plan with Uber for a fully self reliant fleet in such a short timespan, since volvo really haven't had anywhere near the testing of their system as other manufacturers so it seemed like just a bit of impossible marketing wank that we all know and love to hate.
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Those who demand tight regulations are mad hypocritical cunts, because Arizona has obscenely high traffic accident rates, 952 people killed in 2016 alone, and no one bats a fucking eye. No one! Pedestrian run over by a drunk shit? Since when is that even headline-making news?
But a SINGLE accident involving a pedestrian jaywalking where they totally shouldn't have been, crossing on a fucking bicycle at that, and they scream MURDER! BAN THEM! BAN SELF-DRIVING CARS! BAN UBER!!!1111
Yet nobody screams just as loud to BAN FUCKING HUMAN AMATEURS FROM DRIVING, although there's a human behind every single car crash since cars are a thing.
You know why is this?
Since everybody in the US of A and their dog owns a car, banning non-professional meatbags from driving will hit them all personally. The government will take their toys away! Waaaaaaa! Although it would be the very step to reduce the incident rate dramatically. Public transportation FTW!
On the other hand, self-driving technologies are someone else's problem, ergo, fuck them. Google is a megacorp, they will cope. Everybody hates Uber anyway, so fuck Uber. Let's regulate them to death. But take the car away from your generic Kevin because he doesn't have a driving job and texts while driving, and it's HOW DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKERS now.
Mad. Hypocritical. Cunts. Let them go eat a turd, or something.
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I also think there's a circle in the fucking hell for people who deliberately can't tell a fatal traffic accident from murder. I hope they serve a full murder sentence when a drunk bum jumps in front of their car, wearing black, at nighttime.
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@kt_ said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Please note that there was a backup human driver present there, sitting behind the wheel.
Yeah, but I think that is more just a formality. The reaction time of the human is by definition worse than that of the car, and I think even if the human was paying attention, their reaction time would be slowed by the fact that they expect the car to handle it.
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@wft yeah people really need to stop fucking calling it "murder". It's not. At worst it could possibly be manslaughter (yes that's right, I'm agreeing with @lucas1) and that's only if the death is provably due to negligence on Uber's part.
Personally I think it's pretty likely that the pedestrian was at fault and there was little if anything the car could have done to avoid hitting her, but I'm sure they will be doing an in-depth analysis of everything recorded by the car's sensors to map out exactly what happened and what if anything could've been done to avoid the collision. At that point we'll know for sure. Currently we can only speculate based on our biases and the limited facts we know.
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@wft said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Public transportation FTW!
Sorry, but the 8th Amendment prevents this.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
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@pie_flavor said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
So let me get this straight.
This is the first ever car crash death from a self-driving car, after they've been on the road for a while.
What's that statistic on car deaths? Over three thousand a day?
I'd say it's a pretty good track record. Better than humans.IIHS said:
There were 34,439 fatal motor vehicle crashes in the United States in 2016 in which 37,461 deaths occurred. This resulted in 11.6 deaths per 100,000 people and 1.16 deaths per 100 million miles traveled. The fatality rate per 100,000 people ranged from 4.0 in the District of Columbia to 23.1 in Mississippi. The death rate per 100 million miles traveled ranged from 0.66 in Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Rhode Island to 1.88 in South Carolina.
California requires companies to report the number of instances when human ... roads since 2009 when it was Google’s self-driving car project, has said its cars have driven more than 5 million miles while Uber’s cars have covered 3 million miles.
So way less than 100 million miles traveled by self driving cars, and yet we've got one death so far... So yea, not safer than humans yet.
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@carnage said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
volvo really haven't had anywhere near the testing of their system
Their adaptive cruise is rather good, even from a few years ago, but the vision systems get signs catastrophically wrong sometimes. There's a sign not far from home on a side street (at a funny angle to the main road) that applies a 20 limit which it sometimes picks up despite me not actually turning onto that street, which is bad enough, but occasionally is misreads the sign as 120 and that'd be a terrifying speed to do on that particular road!
So yes, there's some significant bugs in these things.
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@dkf said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Also, there's the general matter that anyone expecting perfect safety at all times hasn't the slightest idea how the world actually works.
Oh yeah, tell that to the
politiciansmasses who listen to politicians' arguments who demand to break everyone's encryption and install cameras in your bathroom whenever someone, somewhere, somehow dies of a "terror" incident. Because think of the terrorists/children.
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@wft said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
because Arizona has obscenely high traffic accident rates, 952 people killed in 2016 alone
I don't know about Arizona specifically, but if it's any similar to its neighbors, they also have an obscenely high rate of DUI incidents, which would explain some of those.
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@anotherusername said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
@wft yeah people really need to stop fucking calling it "murder". It's not. At worst it could possibly be manslaughter (yes that's right, I'm agreeing with @lucas1) and that's only if the death is provably due to negligence on Uber's part.
Wouldn't criminal negligence still count as manslaughter, though? I thought murder requires a premeditated intention to kill.
On that tangent, this reminds me of a recent case here:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/39367394/murder-verdict-overturned-for-german-street-race-death/I'm a bit ambivalent about that decision, because I think the life sentence was justified but the decision that it wasn't murder is correct.
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@dangeruss Different stimuli than in humans, but humans are fooled just as well, with optical illusions of all kinds and pareidolia.
It's no different than a kid who had been taught that "fuck off" is totally a thing welcome to say in a polite company to old ladies.
If you want your car never to make mistakes, you don't make it read signs visually (those can lie, too). You plant sufficiently powered beacons which broadcast speed and road condition information wirelessly, in cryptographically signed payloads, to vehicles.
Then, of course, you lobby governments of all countries that got roads for cars to adopt a single standard for those beacons.
Then you lobby the remaining governments to have roads at all.
Easy, huh?
(...Then your mutilated corpse is found somewhere in Albania, where you lobbied for roads, because your interpreter got drunk and mistranslated.)
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@wft said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
adopt a single standard
LOL
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@mrl of course. Or you lobby them to have a standard at all, then establish a company producing firmware/hardware that can work with them all and sell that to car manufacturers (you can also license stuff to them, but better don't get overly greedy, because you might get in a nasty accident). I see quite a steady source of income. Especially if you convey an idea that tweaking the standards twice a year is a thing all car manufacturers need badly.
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@anotherusername said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
doing an in-depth analysis of everything recorded by the car's sensors to map out exactly what happened and what if anything could've been done to avoid the collision.
Which is way more effort that would be put into a meat spin case.
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@dangeruss said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I must be a computer, because that sticker does look like a toaster.
So what's the news, the computer is unable to distinguish that there are two separate objects in the image? As I understand it, they were testing it on a neural network that is only designed to identify one object from the image, but they gave it an image containing two. Presumably then if it was designed to separate and identify multiple objects in the image, it would still correctly be able to identify the banana, so that's not really newsworthy... I think the "to a computer, this turtle looks like a gun" one was a lot more interesting.
Also, this:
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@topspin said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
Wouldn't criminal negligence still count as manslaughter, though?
That's what I said. If the death could be provably determined to have been caused by Uber's negligence, it could be charged as manslaughter; otherwise, it would simply be a tragic accident.
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@anotherusername You're right, not sure how I misread you there.
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@topspin said in Uber, the sociopathic company full of psychopaths, now with murder! (Because regulations aren't "Disruptive" enough!):
I thought murder requires a premeditated intention to kill.
Not necessarily, but it would at least require gross and reckless negligence to such a high degree that this case comes nowhere close.
In the US, one commonly applied rule (as in, it's the law in many places) is that any death resulting from the commission of a felony is considered murder; so for example if you rob a bank and someone (including one of your co-conspirators) is killed, even though your intent was never for someone to die, you will be charged with murder. Another standard is that murder can be the result of actions which are extremely dangerous and very likely to result in someone's death, which would apply to, say, firing a gun into a crowd -- you are not aiming to kill anyone specific, but it is the almost inevitable result that someone will be hit, and they could die (I would argue that "swatting" someone also fits this case, but that hasn't been proven out in the courts yet); such actions exceed the bounds of simple negligent manslaughter.