Where did I call him a name? hmmm? It was only after he attacked me that I started TRYING to defend myself. I see how it is though, since he has so many posts everyone kisses his arse. I really don't care what you think. So what if I am a jerk... I can live with that, the rest of you just subscribe to the mob mentality, keep on bashing me, I am sure your all having a great time... ENJOY
murdog
@murdog
Best posts made by murdog
Latest posts made by murdog
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@morbiuswilters said:
@murdog said:
This will be my last post, and I will not be participating in this forum any longer. I asked the administrator to remove my account as I will no longer be using it.
You know what would be really awesome? If you stopped participating in life. Just let God know he can remove your account as you will no longer be using it.
Nice, your a sad pathetic excuse for a human being. When god made you, he not only threw out the mold, he shit on it, burned it and threw it in to the sun. Keep hiding behind your computer you little piece of crap, because one day, you may have to actually be responsible for the bullshit you sling through the web.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@morbiuswilters said:
@snover said:
I’m pretty sure I spent most of my time presenting facts and arguments for the use of CSS for layout.
You did well and although I wish I had more time to debate it with you, I've had this exact same argument a dozen times with many different people and it never really goes anywhere. I say that tables are another tool in the toolbox, that sometimes they are the simpler, more elegant way of accomplishing things and that the convolutions to produce certain layouts without tables can result in markup that is even more hideous and counter to the principle of separating presentation from data. I base this on extensive experience and if your experience hasn't shown you that, then I envy you. I wish this shit worked the way it was supposed to, the way some people fanatically insist it must work, but that's just not been my experience. And from my previous debates over this, I'm not the only one.
Also, I wish I could respond to you about the ACLU thing, but I have even less time for debating politics on TDWTF than I do for debating tech. Apologies, and I'm sure you had decent, well-reasoned points that probably wouldn't have changed my fundamental beliefs.
This will be my last post, and I will not be participating in this forum any longer. I asked the administrator to remove my account as I will no longer be using it. But I to have had extensive experience, and I have used table layouts, and sure, maybe they are a tool in your toolbox, and that is fine, all the more power to you. But here is where I am coming from, when I switched jobs about a year ago, I was forced into using some framework that I barely knew, and given my prior knowledge in development, I thought ALL this framework did was make things more difficult, and make me frustrated. A few of my remarks where, "Why do we even use this, its just a pain in the butt, it just makes my life more difficult". Which was true, it did make my job more difficult, and it took longer. But as I learned the framework, and I saw how it function, what it was doing was infact BREAKING my bad habits for me. When I tried to do something that wasn't a good idea, it wouldn't work, and I would pound my head against the wall for a day or so. So about a year later now, i have learned the framework, realized how I should actually be developing, and I am a MUCH better developer as a result of that. If your wondering what the framework is, its Hibernate.
Same here with CSS and table layout, table layout gets you were you need to go, but its simply not regarded as good practice, and you may say that people are being stardards nazi's for saying you should NOT use table layout. But they are simply stating facts based on horrible maintenance experience they have had with table based layout pages. Now I am NOT saying you do bad work, what I am saying is that with Table layouts, the potential is there for bad work to happen. Given your experience, you can probably make a table based layout work, and work clean... but I am guaranteeing you, you are in the 1% of developers.
So what I am saying is that, standards are there to help us help ourselves, they aren't the silver-bullet that will change a bad developer into a good, but the are there to help you not create a monster. That being said, standards can still be abused by terrible developers in many different ways, in which case being actually good at what you do is important. So, if you are good at what you do, great, because, sadly, there are too few good developers out there.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@snover said:
@morbiuswilters said:
What's wrong with you, don't you like amusement?
It seems like torturing a helpless animal to me. But, I guess since it’s only their ego that hurts, I won’t be totally opposed to it.
HA! So much for talking about the facts... instead everyone seems to want to take the simpleton's side. Whatever... there is no real torment here, frankly, I could care less what you people think.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@morbiuswilters said:
That hope died for me several posts ago. I'd rather just torment this guy for our amusement. What's wrong with you, don't you like amusement?LOL, yeah right, now that you have nothing clever to come back with, you were just playing around, yes so amusing.
P.S. Didn't say I disliked the east coast, I just think this guy, and his profile message are lame.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
Well, first of all, when you resort to that kind of crap, your obviously beaten. TWO (random capitalization yay), I don't need to justify my experience to the likes of you. THREE (even more random capitalization yay!!), what scares me is that you do this for a living, I feel sorry for the people who pay you.
Lastly, I will actually address the topic at hand, html layouts are bad, CSS is the future period, I dare anyone to challenge that. And as for you morbiuswrilters representing the east coast, I think... you still haven't provided me with any solid evidence that your table based layout is better. All you have really done is talk about some sorta lesbian aunt you think I have. Thats actually really weird that you would come up with that kind of insult, of all the things you could have picked... that... lesbian aunt, wow... genius.
P.S.
Dribble dribble, LOL!
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@morbiuswilters said:
You need to work on your fallacious appeals to authority. Namely, use a source that is actually considered authoritative by someone, somewhere.
I AM showing a post from a community of developers who hold eachother accountable for bad ideas. UNTIL YOU provide me some valid arguments other than the fact that you can hack a site together and say its good only to YOURSELF, then you need to stop posting BS. If you have some actual facts, then I may be interested in hearing them, but until then, stop trying to just WIN the debate and start actually contributing something intelligent.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@morbiuswilters said:
@murdog said:
There are lots of articles that say CSS based layouts are better, for both accessibiliy and cross-browser compatibility.
I'm convinced!
@murdog said:
When I started web development about 7 years ago, I used table based layouts a lot, but they are restrictive, and tables themselves are quite quirky and less dependable than a standard CSS layout. Also, when it comes to maintainability, CSS gives much more flexibility.
I disagree about maintainability and compatibility. There are plenty of quirks and incompatibilities with floating divs. You can spend a maddening amount of time getting the CSS just right and then you go back a week later to add some small element and BAM!, the whole thing collapses. There are plenty of advanced layouts that are well-nigh impossible to achieve with only CSS. What's more, many sophisticated, good-looking CSS layouts make use of terrible hacks that undermine the entire "no styling in markup" dictat that is the cornerstone of anal-retentive CSS Nazism. Not that I'm opposed to using those hacks to accomplish the results I want, mind you, but it's annoying to be lectured by these people about "markup purity" when they produce HTML that violates the ideological standard they've set for everyone.
From years of doing web stuff, I can say that table layouts, used well, don't make things any less compatible or maintainable. I consider them another tool in my toolbox and when you strip away the appeals to strict ideology of the "no tables" crowd, there really isn't a good reason not to use them if they accomplish your goal.
Find me ONE article from someone who is well known to be knowledgeable to that states table layouts are the way to go, and I will believe this nonesense. But in my experience, people who are making crap have absolutely no idea that they are doing so. And in my years, every table layout has been nothing but that.
-
RE: Did you know that document.getElementById wasn't around until vista!!
@Daid said:
"Tables BAD!" my ass
COMPLETE BS... whoever you talked to who said this, doesn't know their damn CSS, there is only ONE thing you can't do easily in CSS that you can do in a table, and thats align vertically. Anything else you can do in a table you can do in CSS EASY.
Obviously you have never maintained someone else's crap table layout or else you would be singing a different tune.