I agree that at least he is honest, where as others like through their teeth causing many sleepless nights for us when we realize the job we accepted was not the job we were hired to do. However, I have never liked these "know this language" type postings. If you study enough languages, you start to the learn the concepts inherent in any programming language. The syntax may change, but the concepts never do. All I would ever care about is finding a good programmer. It is like asking for a mechanic who has only worked on 1999 Geo Metro's, made in Indiana. Either the mechanic knows how to fix cars or he doesn't. No need to be specific.
Jerim
@Jerim
Best posts made by Jerim
Latest posts made by Jerim
-
RE: Angry Employer
-
RE: Adventures at My New Company - Story #3
Worked at a small mom and pop type place once; run by some little pr*ck who thought he could walk on water. He was always threatening to write me up for insubordination, and I would just laugh (Actually, I kept coming up with elaborate theories about how he first came across that world, and how he reasoned that that is proper word to use). He would get so frustrated wanting to know why I was laughing. After I explained that that word is completely stupid, he would just get so mad that he would just leave. Only jerks with inflated egos and small sex organs use that word. If you feel someone has disrespected you, you take them aside and tell them they have a bad attitude and they lack the respect that you feel you have shown them (You show them respect, right?). You can tell them that if it happens again they will be fired, but you don't have to use the term "insubordination." Unless of course you are twelve and think that is how grown-ups are suppossed to act.
-
RE: So what is it like out there? In the world of Software Development?
@ammoQ said:
@CPound said:
I am really trying to hold my tongue on this one...but I just can't. I'm CPound and I have to comment.
Here goes...
You talk about exceptions to the rule. Well, in my experience, this has totally reversed. The 2-year rookies ARE getting those jobs. Not only that, they're getting these jobs right out of college. We're talking maybe 1 year of internship experience at the most. It depends how well they can market themselves during the interview process.
Do I agree with this? Obviously not. (Just read some of my previous "controversial" posts.)
Being that I have much more experience than these rookies, it is a slap-in-the-face and an outright insult that they are able to get these wonderful jobs in a day, but what took me years of intense work and degradation to achieve.
And are these recent grads being paid well? Oh yes, they are. Once again, slap-in-the-face.
Some companies explicitely prefer unexperienced people which (supposedly) are easier customized to the company's way of "doing things". That said, currently it is very easy to get a job as a software developer, so if you were unlucky enough to start in, say, 2001, you probably had a longer search period and a smaller number of offers than people have now.
I agree, the market has turned around. Back in the early to mid 90's, anyone who could turn on a computer could get a job easily. Then the crash came and no one but the top level experienced people could even find a job. Now the market is back to hiring anyone who can turn on a computer again. Timing is everything. Yeah it sucks that we had to struggle through the downturn and these young guys coming in have it so easy. But they soon will share in the next down turn.
-
RE: Am I too old?
Yes. In an odd sort of way, you helped me realize that since I am not that clueless, maybe things aren't so bad. As you pointed out, they could be worse. I could be stumbling around the office wondering how to initialize a variable or pestering everyone to show me how to create an array. So as long as I am not that bad, I feel okay.
-
RE: I'm a programming newbie!
@technites said:
The language doesn't matter so much, the concepts are what's important. Like you said, you want your knowledge to grow - If you're not familiar with object-oriented programming, I'd strongly suggest reading up about it.
It also depends on your priorities and how much time you have. Ruby or Python are more immediate and fun to learn. If you're more concerned about having marketable skills, go for Java/C#.
I agree. I know a variety of languages, and they all have things in common such as loops, functions, arrays, etc. Learn the concepts first, and the syntax last. When you know the basic concepts, you can easily pick up new languages just by learning the syntax.
-
RE: New grad looking for professional advice
@NewBie said:
Hello
I've recently earned a BTech in CIS from a college. I learned the basics of system analysis, DB architecture, networking and prgoramming J2EE/.NET (C#, VB,asp.net). Coming out of college I probably don't know much and my experience is limited to the senior projects that I had to complete to graduate.
Its time to find a job and I'm somewhat lost. Some are telling me to start off as tech support since thats easy to get and gain some industry experience then start applying to programming jobs, while others tell me to apply directly. To be honest I don't know what to focus on. I was thinking of focusing on one language, get certified and then move my way up the chain. My problem is what language should I be focusing on? I was thinking C# since there's alot of jobs and if I want to switch to Java it would be easier. Learning something new isnt hard for me, in fact I want to learn as much as I can. Hopefuly one day I could become enterprisey. I'm trying to find a career path that would allow me to gain several skills besides programming.
Most of you here hire people like me and probably know what the current market requires. Any ideas? I apologize for the long post, I'm just looking for advice. I'm probably making a fool out of myself with these questions but asking industry professionals won't kill.
Thanks in advance.
Tech support is the bottom rung of the ladder. It is where high school graduates get their start. If you hadn't gone to college, that would be where you start. Having a degree, you should be able to start a rung or two hire. Computer repair would be the bottom for you, an entry level programming or system admin job would probably be just about right for you.
-
RE: So what is it like out there? In the world of Software Development?
You say you love programming, but it seems like you love programming in ASP.Net. Yes, you are going to run into a lot of jobs where you will have to learn a new language, or a new way of doing things. Most programmers enjoy learning new things. At the same time, your education and experience will start to give you more insight into the best way to do things. ASP.Net is not always going to be the best way to do something. Sometimes, PHP is going to be the best, or Javascript. When warranted, it is perfectly acceptable to say "I think we should use X language to accomplish this" even if the company really wants it in Y language. So no, you won't always be forced into using one certain language. For a programmer, languages are like tools in a toolbox. Each one serves a purpose, and it is best to have all of them. If you really want to be a programmer, it is in your best interest to learn a variety of languages.
-
RE: Am I too old?
To be honest, I don't see what the commotion is about. I can see the attempted humor, although you have the entire situation pegged wrong. I know of the type of person you speak of; the middle aged guy reading "Programming for Dummies", and trying to get a job as a Senior Programmer. But I can honestly say that is not my situation. My situation is of what some may consider an advanced person who wonders if he is advanced enough to stay in the game as time goes buy. (I understand that you must keep learning to stay in the field, but will I always be learning last year's technology because I am so far behind and need to catch up?)
When I said GUI, I meant programming. My library contains intermediate level titles. I have found that the begginer level stuff for any language is just a recap of the basics, so when I want to learn a new language, I jump straight to the middle. I have computer architecture, systems analysis, advanced SQL, RPG IV, and other books. (I am not home right now, so I can't list them all.) I am taking Discrete Mathematics now, and will be taking Calculus soon. On top of that, my college studies will teach me about Operating Systems, Networking and Linux administration, among other electives.
So no, I don't see my self as the completely clueless know-nothing that you describe. Maybe I am just being too hard on myself for not knowing everything and feeling as though unless I know everything, then I don't know anything. (I do know a bit about PERL and Crystal Reports, but I just recently learned. The person in question was younger and seemed to know them like the back of his hand.)
-
RE: Mo' Money, Mo' Problems?
Arrogant people are hard to work for. This may be why he is so desperate that he is offering 36% more money. I worked with an arrogant person before. I figured that they really must know their stuff to be so confident and that I would learn a lot. I was wrong. Arrogance leads to mistakes. The guy I worked for spent half of the day promising people he knew everything, and the other half of the day reading up on what he already told people he knew. When things didn't work because he didn't really know what he was doing, who do you think took all the blame. Just because your boss seemed to know his stuff on the subjects you discussed, doesn't mean that he knows everything he tells clients he knows.
In IT, your reputation is all that counts. If you have a reputation as a competent person, you won't have trouble finding work. Some people need a buffer in the IT industry, to take the blame off of them and allow them to continue to have a career. If your reputation is as a screw up who can't get anything right because your former boss laid everything at your feet, you will be answering phones the rest of your life. All I am saying is to think carefully before you take the new job. You need to be willing to walk the moment your arrogant boss makes a stupid decision and starts pointing fingers, in order to save your reputation. If you feel that you can walk easily, then why not at least try. However, if it were me, I would listen to my gut and stay put. If it doesn't "feel right" then it isn't right.
-
RE: Am I too old?
I am sorry that I didn't get to read CPound's post. I wish someone would send it to me. Just curious.
Note: Your wish has come true. http://forums.thedailywtf.com/user/PrivateMessages/default.aspx ammoQ
Anyway, I thank everyone for the input. I talked it over with a programmer friend of mine, and I feel better. I believe the problem I have is that I keep running into guys younger than me who seem to know almost anything. I was thinking how am I ever going to get ahead in this field when every 20 something is operating at an advanced level. I mean stuff like Cyrix, indepth Cisco routing knowledge, telco knowledge, and every programming language known to man.
t's not so much that they know more, it is that they seem to have a chip on their shoulder about me not knowing as much as they do. I don't mind working extra hard to learn, but I don't want to work in a field where I will always be the dumbest person in the room. How are you going to get anywhere when you are always the dumbest person in the room? But I realized that I know a good bit, and am comfortable with what I know and am working on what I don't know. I have also convinced myself that no one knows everything, although some try to act as they do. There have been a few times of late that I was able to prove someone wrong, who acted as though they were 100% positive they were right. That gives me some hope. Thanks everyone.