Windows Update is a broken-ass buggy piece of shit


  • Considered Harmful

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    a far cry from a legitimate reason to declare one OS superior to another. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and this is a nuance barely worth mentioning let alone debating page after page.

    My intention in bringing up this use-case was not to try and say either operating system was superior, which is not constructive, but to discuss areas in which both systems might be improved. This is neither an unsolvable problem nor more inherent to either system.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @Manni_reloaded said:
    Oh, I assumed there was a more thought-provoking set of criteria being compared beyond "saving text files". This has officially become the most trivial argument I've ever read regarding the differences between two operating systems, congratulations to all involved.

    No, you just didn't read what was said very carefully. That's OK, but you should be man enough to admit it instead of trying to change the subject.

     

    Aww, attacking my manliness? Desperate move.

    What? Look, I'm not the one who can't admit I was wrong. Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself.

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    Please learn the difference between changing the subject and bowing out of a pointless conversation.

    Yes, I have, and you're changing the subject and bowing out. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    Then read back to what I commented on. Someone suggested using the built-in utility runas, you said it didn't work.

    Yes. It doesn't work. There's no way it can work. You're getting closer to admitting that you didn't understand the conversation.

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    But perhaps you should be more clear when you try making vague little digs against an OS you clearly despise.

    OK. I despise people who skim a conversation and offer pointless advice (yes, I do it too, sometimes, but then I'm fine with admitting it).

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    Anyone worth their salt would know to open Notepad as an administrator when it comes time to edit system-level config files.

    No shit, dumbass. I guess you've never ever forgotten a step in a simple task, and then been annoyed when you had to go back and do it all over? Really, are you this afraid of saying, "Sorry, I didn't read closely and was wrong," that you have to keep creating straw men?

    @Manni_reloaded said:

    Worst case scenario, the 12 seconds it takes me to open a new Notepad (with elevated permissions) and copy/paste the data in is a far cry from a legitimate reason to declare one OS superior to another. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and this is a nuance barely worth mentioning let alone debating page after page.

    Now it's really funny, because the guy who brought it up mentioned that neither OS has a good solution to this. You're apparently insecure about operating system preferences in addition to your reading comprehension, because you see attacks where there are none.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Manni_reloaded said:
    Then read back to what I commented on. Someone suggested using the built-in utility runas, you said it didn't work.

    Yes. It doesn't work. There's no way it can work. You're getting closer to admitting that you didn't understand the conversation

    I admit its been awhile since I used the command-line runas, but you never explained why it didn't work and it worked the last time I had to use it.  Which makes me wonder if you actually bothered to follow the [url=http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc771525.aspx]link[/url] which documents the [b]command-line runas command[/b] and instead just assumed I was referring to its GUI equivalent.

    runas /user:domain\administrator "iisreset"

    where domain is the actual domain (or computer name) you're using.

    It works pretty much the same as su -c does except you have to specify the user while su assumes root.

     


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @powerlord said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @Manni_reloaded said:
    Then read back to what I commented on. Someone suggested using the built-in utility runas, you said it didn't work.

    Yes. It doesn't work. There's no way it can work. You're getting closer to admitting that you didn't understand the conversation

    I admit its been awhile since I used the command-line runas, but you never explained why it didn't work and it worked the last time I had to use it.  Which makes me wonder if you actually bothered to follow the link which documents the command-line runas command and instead just assumed I was referring to its GUI equivalent.

    runas /user:domain\administrator "iisreset"

    where domain is the actual domain (or computer name) you're using.

    It works pretty much the same as su -c does except you have to specify the user while su assumes root.

     

    NOTHING YOU MENTIONED WILL ELEVATE A RUNNING PROCESS. THAT'S WHY IT WON'T WORK.



  • @boomzilla said:

    (yes, I do it too, sometimes, but then I'm fine with admitting it).
     

    What are you, catholic?


  • :belt_onion:

    @joe.edwards said:

    Usually it's C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts, I have to modify it frequently. And why wouldn't I edit it with Notepad?
    I still find this a far fetched from reality. I block unwanted sites on my router. So it's blocked once and for all for every single device on my network.

    And obviously you don't need to run Notepad from an elevated CMD prompt. You either right-click Notepad and choose "Run As Administrator" or if you really insist on CMD.exe you could just as well do

    Runas /user:Administrator %windir%\Notepad.exe

  • ♿ (Parody)

    @dhromed said:

    @boomzilla said:
    (yes, I do it too, sometimes, but then I'm fine with admitting it).

    What are you, catholic?

    Of course. Aren't we all?



  • @bjolling said:

    And obviously you don't need to run Notepad from an elevated CMD prompt. You either right-click Notepad and choose "Run As Administrator" or if you really insist on CMD.exe you could just as well do

    Runas /user:Administrator %windir%\Notepad.exe

     

    Hate to be pedantic, but "Runas /user:Administrator" is not exactly equivalent to "right-click->Run As Administrator".  When the UAC elevation dialog comes up in the GUI (as a result of right-click->Run as Administrator, or because you launched an .EXE that has the "admin privs required" property set in its manifest), the OS is going to either:

    - If the current user is an admin user, elevate the process to admin privs, under the current user's ID
    - If the current user is a non-admin user, prompt you to select an actual admin user and enter his/her password

    The runas command you suggested will run the process as a different user (the actual built-in user named "Administrator") which may not be what was desired.

    That's why several 3rd-party devs have created a command-line elevate.exe utility, for people who need it.

    Not saying the "runas" method wouldn't work, but it isn't equivalent.

     

     



  • I know that FOSStards like to turn on the stupid-act when they sit in front of a Windows machine, but this hosts file thing is too much.  Stop acting like you don't know how to change the NTFS permissions on that file.

    I feel like I've just been trolled by a bunch of APK sockpuppet accounts.  I told you guys to stop linking to the dailywtf on slahdot.  Now we've been completely infiltrated.



  •  @pauly said:

    I know that FOSStards like to turn on the stupid-act when they sit in front of a Windows machine, but this hosts file thing is too much.  Stop acting like you don't know how to change the NTFS permissions on that file.

    I feel like I've just been trolled by a bunch of APK sockpuppet accounts.  I told you guys to stop linking to the dailywtf on slahdot.  Now we've been completely infiltrated.

    Except the guy who brought up the whole "hosts file thing" said:

    Or opening a file in Notepad, start editing, and realize that you didn't elevate when you launched Notepad so now you can't save the file. <font size="7"> <font size="5">Actually, neither OS seems to handle this scenario.</font></font>

    Also, changing the file permissions is the stupidest way to handle the scenario, regardless of OS, because it introduces another point of failure on the end user's side.  i.e. Now the user might forget to change the permissions back, which is a security risk.

     

     



  • Actually, it was several guys trying to explain to blaky why they are saving text files in system32.  And changing permissions on that file is pretty stupid.  But so are the idiots that can't figure out how to edit it.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Of course. Aren't we all?
     

    No, no, you're confused with alcoholic.



  • @pauly said:

    slahdot
     

    slahdot is how I pronounce it, by the way. It's adequately lackluster.



  • @pauly said:

    I know that FOSStards like to turn on the stupid-act when they sit in front of a Windows machine, but this hosts file thing is too much.  Stop acting like you don't know how to change the NTFS permissions on that file.


    What the fuck do you even fucking mean you literally retarded shitbag. Why the hell would we change the fucking NTFS permissions if we want to edit one fucking file. That's so idiotic it barely makes any fucking sense. Go jump off a bridge and stop wasting oxygen and time.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @pauly said:

    Actually, it was several guys trying to explain to blaky why they are saving text files in system32.  And changing permissions on that file is pretty stupid.  But so are the idiots that can't figure out how to edit it.

    Really? Who couldn't figure out how to edit it? Definitely fewer than the people who couldn't read.



  • @Strolskon said:

    @pauly said:

    I know that FOSStards like to turn on the stupid-act when they sit in front of a Windows machine, but this hosts file thing is too much.  Stop acting like you don't know how to change the NTFS permissions on that file.

    What the fuck do you even fucking mean you literally retarded shitbag. Why the hell would we change the fucking NTFS permissions if we want to edit one fucking file. That's so idiotic it barely makes any fucking sense. Go jump off a bridge and stop wasting oxygen and time.

    Changing the permissions keeps you from having to remember to eleveate notepad before you launch it.  That was the complaint, right?  That you have to elevate the fucking text editor to edit a file in system32?  Well, either remember to do that or change the permissions and stop bitching.

    How often do you need to edit files in your system32 directory, anyway?  What the fuck are you doing that requires so many hosts file edits?

    Why the fuck is it a problem to you that you have to run notepad as an admin to be able to edit it?  Stupid people need stupid solutions.  If you thought I was seriously suggesting that as a valid option, then you are stupider than you come off in your post.



  • @dhromed said:

    @boomzilla said:

    Of course. Aren't we all?
     

    No, no, you're confused with alcoholic.

    DRINK! FECK! ARSE!



  •  @boomzilla said:

    @pauly said:
    Actually, it was several guys trying to explain to blaky why they are saving text files in system32.  And changing permissions on that file is pretty stupid.  But so are the idiots that can't figure out how to edit it.

    Really? Who couldn't figure out how to edit it? Definitely fewer than the people who couldn't read.

    joe.edwards when he doesn't remember to elevate notepad when he edits his hosts file.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @pauly said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @pauly said:
    Actually, it was several guys trying to explain to blaky why they are saving text files in system32.  And changing permissions on that file is pretty stupid.  But so are the idiots that can't figure out how to edit it.

    Really? Who couldn't figure out how to edit it? Definitely fewer than the people who couldn't read.

    joe.edwards when he doesn't remember to elevate notepad when he edits his hosts file.

    It's funny that you can be so angry about the things in life that you cannot understand. Like words.



  • @Manni_reloaded said:

    Then read back to what I commented on. Someone suggested using the built-in utility runas, you said it didn't work.

    What he commented on:

    @joe.edwards said:

    So, how is this different from launching a non-administrator command prompt in Windows and running an administrative command (let's say iisreset)? Oh, because in Linux you can just sudo but in Windows you have to launch a new command prompt with administrative privileges and try again.

    Admittedly, followed by another line talking about elevating privileges in a running Notepad, but I have to assume the runas stuff is refuting the above.

    @boomzilla said:

    @powerlord said:

    @boomzilla said:

    Yes. It doesn't work. There's no way it can work. You're getting closer to admitting that you didn't understand the conversation

    I admit its been awhile since I used the command-line runas, but you never explained why it didn't work and it worked the last time I had to use it.  Which makes me wonder if you actually bothered to follow the link which documents the command-line runas command and instead just assumed I was referring to its GUI equivalent.

    runas /user:domain\administrator "iisreset"

    where domain is the actual domain (or computer name) you're using.

    It works pretty much the same as su -c does except you have to specify the user while su assumes root.

     

    NOTHING YOU MENTIONED WILL ELEVATE A RUNNING PROCESS. THAT'S WHY IT WON'T WORK.

    Well, duh. But anyone who imagines Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command is an idiot. This is why we can't have nice things.



  • @grkvlt said:

    Well, duh. But anyone who imagines Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command is an idiot.

    Has to be said, though, that there are things it's fairly easy to do with sudo that can't be done safely with runas - such as making carefully specified elevation-requiring commands and only those commands available, without any user interaction at all, to scripts designed to be launched by non-elevated but carefully selected users. Sure, runas has /savecred but you really, really, really don't want to use that.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @grkvlt said:

    But anyone who imagines Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command is an idiot.

    What about the people who imagine the people who image that Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command?



  • @boomzilla said:

    @grkvlt said:
    But anyone who imagines Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command is an idiot.

    What about the people who imagine the people who image that Windows requires you to start a privileged shell to run a privileged command?


    It's imaginception!



  • @toon said:

    It's imaginception!
     

    That just pretty much the same thing as inception.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @joe.edwards said:
    Or opening a file in Notepad, start editing, and realize that you didn't elevate when you launched Notepad so now you can't save the file.

    Nobody actually does that. Why would you need to elevate to save a text document? Are you saving it in the System32 folder or something? Fuck.

    ...

    @joe.edwards said:

    Actually, neither OS seems to handle this scenario.
     

    The standard way in Linux (at least with a text editor, ie. VIM) is to do all changes that are needed, and then say "write to a pipe, which will write escalated" - or, to be more precise, simply

        :w !sudo tee /some/priviledged/path

    Any more questions, while I'm at it?



  • @flop said:

    :w !sudo tee /some/priviledged/path

    That causes a lot of terminal spew unless you also tack >/dev/null onto the end of the command line. When I need an elevated but otherwise plain file writer I'll usually abuse dd rather than tee, like this:

    :w !sudo dd of=/some/privileged/path



  • @flop said:

    The standard way in Linux (at least with a text editor, ie. VIM) ..

    Any more questions, while I'm at it?

     

    Yeah.. what about non-vi text editors, for instance gEdit or some other graphical tool?

     



  • @flop said:

    or, to be more precise, simply

    Ooo, so "simply" means, "gibberish nobody understands." This explains a lot of the trouble I have communicating with Linux users.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @flop said:
    or, to be more precise, simply

    Ooo, so "simply" means, "gibberish nobody understands." This explains a lot of the trouble I have communicating with Linux users.

    Kind of have to agree: a lot of the Linux CLI tools have f---ing off the wall nuts APIs. But that's what you get when you have an OS and base toolset that is basically cobbled together by hundreds of individual people from their bedrooms, basements and attics without any overarching pre-existing technical design phase.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Ooo, so "simply" means, "gibberish nobody understands."

    I understood it fine. So would anybody else having a passing famiiarity with vi and sh.

    @blakeyrat said:

    This explains a lot of the trouble I have communicating with Linux users.

    The rest of it is down to the way you habitually deploy the flamethrower at the first hint of any attempt to help or explain. In fact my first instinct here was to explain, but unless you tell me the effort won't be wasted on you, I shan't bother.



  • @flabdablet said:

    :w !sudo dd of=/some/privileged/path

     

    Unless, of course, there is no sudo, in which case, the completely obvious approach would be

    :w !su -c dd of=/some/privileged/path

     

     



  • su: must be run from a terminal
    
    shell returned 1
    
    Press ENTER or type command to continue

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