Ubuntu and TRWTF... this time...



  • My shiny new computer is just arrived in my office

    I install the new shiny Ubuntu version - released last Thursday

    First thing I do after installing it, I try to remove one of those large square Fisher-Price-looking icons from the panel

    Right click, nothing happens

    Curse the Ubuntu developers because they changed the interface

    I Try shift-click, ctrl-right-click, look in the configuration menus, whatever, nothing works


    Try googling for help, no results. Am I the only one in the world who noticed that you can't remove apps from the panel anymore?

    Give up, go home for the night and keep cursing the Ubuntu developers - why do they keep making these pointless changes to the GUI in every new version?

    Next day, some more tests... it turn out it's the right button of my new mouse that does not work 😕

    Well this time it's not your fault Ubuntu... this time... but I keep an eye on you.



  •  For future record, they are indeed removed by right-clicking them and choosing "Unpin from Launcher" from the right-click menu. (Apart from three, which can't be removed at all.)





  • @fph said:

    it turn out it's the right button of my new mouse that does not work 😕

    LOL!

    But you're right, I've been using Ubuntu for the past 6 years or so, and since 12.04 I've changed to using Xubuntu basically because of Unity



  • @fph said:

    I Try shift-click, ctrl-right-click, look in the configuration menus, whatever, nothing works
    For the record, if you decide to change your shell to Gnome Classic, it's alt+right-click.



  • @fph said:

    Well this time it's not your fault Ubuntu... this time... but I keep an eye on you.

    Did anyone else have the voice of the Wicked Witch from The Wizard of Oz in their head when reading this?



  • @ubersoldat said:

    since 12.04 I've changed to using Xubuntu basically because of Unity

    I switched to Xubuntu after 11.04, but after discovering what they did to "Hibernate" in 12.04 I've decided my next upgrade will be to Mint, where hopefully things will be slightly more sane.



  •  Mint is rather nice and sane with stuff. I use it on my better computer.



  • @Vanders said:

    @ubersoldat said:
    since 12.04 I've changed to using Xubuntu basically because of Unity

    I switched to Xubuntu after 11.04, but after discovering what they did to "Hibernate" in 12.04 I've decided my next upgrade will be to Mint, where hopefully things will be slightly more sane.

    What exactly did they do to Hibernate in 12.04?

    I've never gotten hibernate to work properly on my Ubuntu laptop, but it seemed to be a hardware problem.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    What exactly did they do to Hibernate in 12.04?

    Read the bug if you dare. Behold its full horror!



  • @Vanders said:

    @Someone You Know said:
    What exactly did they do to Hibernate in 12.04?

    Read the bug if you dare. Behold its full horror!

    Synopsis:

    • Suspend might be broken on unknown hardware
    • Also, maintaining a list of known good hardware is a lot of work
    • Hibernation failures are generally hardware independant, and more dependant on partitioning, etc.
    • Therefore, we must enable suspend by default and disable hibernate by default
    • Good job, guys! *back pats*
    • Soon:
    • OMG YOU BROKEN MY FEATUREZ


  • @pkmnfrk said:

    Synopsis:

    • Suspend might be broken on unknown hardware
    • Also, maintaining a list of known good hardware is a lot of work
    • Hibernation failures are generally hardware independant, and more dependant on partitioning, etc.
    • Therefore, we must enable suspend by default and disable hibernate by default
    I'm not clear on why they couldn't just leave it as-is and let it fail on hardware where it's going to fail. @pkmnfrk said:
  • Good job, guys! *back pats*
  • Soon:
  • OMG YOU BROKEN MY FEATUREZ
  • You left out the part where they disabled it in a half-assed manner (for example, leaving the "Hibernate" option in various menus, which just does nothing when clicked) and failed to provide a sensible method to re-enable Hibernate that doesn't involve manually editing policykit configuration files.


  • @Vanders said:

    Read the bug if you dare

    From the bug report:

    @Martin Pitt (pitti) said:

    Indeed, I see absolutely no reason to disable suspend on unknown machines. It works on the vast majority of hardware out there, and if it doesn't, then you'll learn to "just don't do that" on that particular machine.

    SPOTTED A REAL PROFESSIONAL SOFTWARE DEVELOPER THERE, EVERYONE!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Vanders said:
    Read the bug if you dare

    From the bug report:

    @Martin Pitt (pitti) said:

    Indeed, I see absolutely no reason to disable suspend on unknown machines. It works on the vast majority of hardware out there on my desk, and if it doesn't, then you'll learn to "just don't do that" on that particular machine.

    SPOTTED A REAL PROFESSIONAL SOFTWARE DEVELOPER THERE, EVERYONE!

    That seems rather more likely, given the way open source projects usually go.

    As someone who knows next to nothing about hardware, I'd be really curious to know why there's such a problem with this feature not working on new machines without "software fixes". In Windows it pretty much always works out of the box, regardless of hardware, regardless of what software fixes are applied. It usually works in Windows on the same hardware that it fails on in Ubuntu. If there's a legitimate reason why that isn't a massive fail on Ubuntu's part, I'd love to know what it is.



  • I wish I could say I was surprised, but it certainly seems that Canonical chooses something new to break for each release. PulseAudio and the new Intel graphics driver come to mind immediately (both bit me)...there are other annoyances but these were nearly showstoppers. Funny that they are concerned with looking unprofessional, and yet pushed breaking changes more than a couple of times.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    As someone who knows next to nothing about hardware, I'd be really curious to know why there's such a problem with this feature not working on new machines without "software fixes".

    The short version: ACPI is horribly broken on almost every single machine ever made.



    The longer version is that ACPI is a weird system that requires the OS to implement a virtual machine for the ACPI bytcode to execute in. That's where things get interesting: if you implement ACPI according to the letter of the specification, it almost certainly wont work. Apparently most OEMs use the Microsoft ACPI bytecode compiler, and that compiler doesn't produce very standards compliant code (if I was being unkind, I might describe it as "buggy"). So operating systems who are [i]not[/i] Microsoft need to work out what the buggy ACPI bytecode is supposed to do and then maintain a bug compatible ACPI implementation.



    It also doesn't help that ACPI is an insanely complicated standard that's been described as a "trainwreck".



  • @Someone You Know said:

    As someone who knows next to nothing about hardware, I'd be really curious to know why there's such a problem with this feature not working on new machines without "software fixes". In Windows it pretty much always works out of the box, regardless of hardware, regardless of what software fixes are applied. It usually works in Windows on the same hardware that it fails on in Ubuntu. If there's a legitimate reason why that isn't a massive fail on Ubuntu's part, I'd love to know what it is.
     

    These "software fixes" are written directly by hardware vendors for Windows. They usually come preinstalled with your new laptop, and are often disguised as "drivers".



  • @fph said:

    These "software fixes" are written directly by hardware vendors for Windows. They usually come preinstalled with your new laptop, and are often disguised as "drivers".

    I have very occasionally seen a mobo vendor offer an "ACPI driver". Most of the time this shit is just buried in the "chipset driver".

    Most mobo vendors have no interest in devoting programmer time to supporting minority operating systems, and most chipset vendors have no interest in documenting their chipsets to the point where third parties can write drivers for them. TRWTF in this space is the astounding fact that anything but Windows actually works at all ever.



  • No no no, you got it all wrong, teh ebil M$ broke/DRM'd ACPI so Linux can't use it! OMG OMG Microsoft is the devil!



  • People still use Ubuntu?  Especially people who know what they're doing?



  • @powerlord said:

    People still use Ubuntu?  Especially people who know what they're doing?

     

    3/10 weak troll

     



  •  I prefer the Lubuntu flavor, good performance with a user interface I'm used too since '95.


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