Oblivious Parent



  • I was just coming out of a fairly large office building with several big stores on the lower levels. They have one of those automated revolving doors; the kind that when it senses people, spins quickly on its own.

    There was a steady stream of folks going in and out so the door was spinning at speed. As I was coming out, I see a woman with a 3-ish year old in front of her - going in. She is not holding him. He steps partially into the opening when the rubber door edge catches him and wedges him against the plexiglass side. It must have caught him good because the door jolted to a halt. He screamed and started thrashing. Three of us grabbed the door and wrenched it back to free the kid.

    WTF is wrong with people? Children, especially little ones, need WATCHING, HOLDING and GUIDING!

     



  • Darwinism in action.  Too bad it wasn't a bus instead of a door and the parent instead of the child.



  • Apparently (I have no personal experience in this matter) quite a lot of parents these days treat young children pretty much as if they're adults. Plenty of stories of parents saying things like, "What had we agreed about this?" to five-year-olds instead of simply, "No" […], etc.



  • @Gurth said:

    Apparently (I have no personal experience in this matter) quite a lot of parents these days treat young children pretty much as if they're adults. Plenty of stories of parents saying things like, "What had we agreed about this?" to five-year-olds instead of simply, "No" […], etc.
    I partially agree with that...  Yes, at the end of the day, you are the parent and what you say must go.  However you'll have an equally big problem on your hands if you treat kids like they're stupid.  They're pretty damn clever, but lack any foresight.  I find that saying "get down from that chair because you can fall and you won't be able to go to the park tomorrow" works much better than just saying "No!  Get down from that chair!".  There is a balance to be struck, and it's somewhere between reasoning with someone who has a 10 second attention span and totalitarianism.



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    @Gurth said:
    Apparently (I have no personal experience in this matter) quite a lot of parents these days treat young children pretty much as if they're adults. Plenty of stories of parents saying things like, "What had we agreed about this?" to five-year-olds instead of simply, "No" […], etc.
    I partially agree with that...  Yes, at the end of the day, you are the parent and what you say must go.  However you'll have an equally big problem on your hands if you treat kids like they're stupid.  They're pretty damn clever, but lack any foresight.  I find that saying "get down from that chair because you can fall and you won't be able to go to the park tomorrow" works much better than just saying "No!  Get down from that chair!".  There is a balance to be struck, and it's somewhere between reasoning with someone who has a 10 second attention span and totalitarianism.
    Explaining to your kid why you are saying no is a good thing so that hopefully one day they can use their brain to figure out the possible consequences of their actions.  However, some kids are indeed very clever and they fully know why they should not but don't care, at which point a straight 'no' is plenty.

    On the upside the kid has learned two simple but important lessons from this (hopefully):  Be observant of your surroundings and dont stand in the way of moving objects that are bigger than you.



  • @Gurth said:

    Apparently (I have no personal experience in this matter) quite a lot of parents these days treat young children pretty much as if they're adults. Plenty of stories of parents saying things like, "What had we agreed about this?" to five-year-olds instead of simply, "No" […], etc.

    How exactly did you expect them to figure out what to do? Tell them "Yes" or "no" every single time until they're adults?



  • There is a tremendous difference in the reasoning capabilities of a 3-, 5-, and 15-year old. When they're little, it's better for them to be taught to just obey. Kids aren't idiots, but at that age, thinking even a moment ahead is indeed a painfully absent skill. And seriously, reasoning and debating with them is futile until they understand that kind of logic, and that doesn't kick in until, oh, maybe 8ish? And even then it's pretty flaky. Now, when they are teenagers, that's a different story. But I haven't gotten that far yet...

    Nevertheless, telling a kid why to do something is almost entirely independent of smacking the kid around until he or she obeys. In my experience, both are necessary, but the latter moreso.

    But in regards to the OP, too bad about the little kid. I'm kind of surprised the revolving door didn't automatically shut off and go into a neutral gear (so to speak) at that kind of resistance, kind of like the way an elevator door does. So afterward the drama, did the parent watch, hold, and guide the little one?



  • @Anketam said:

    However, some kids are indeed very clever and they fully know why they should not but don't care, at which point a straight 'no' is plenty.
    100% agree, and I actually meant to include that as well but didn't want to create WALL-O-TEXT.



  • @Gurth said:

    Apparently (I have no personal experience in this matter) quite a lot of parents these days treat young children pretty much as if they're adults. Plenty of stories of parents saying things like, "What had we agreed about this?" to five-year-olds instead of simply, "No" […], etc.
     

    Five year olds have the capacity for understanding agreements.



  • @Xyro said:

    Kids aren't idiots

    Yes they are. All of them. Some may be smart for their age, or smarter than you expect them to be, but they're still idiots.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Xyro said:
    Kids aren't idiots
    Yes they are. All of them. Some may be smart for their age, or smarter than you expect them to be, but they're still idiots.
    Then explain how they've been trolling their parents for thousands of years...

    And dont' answer with "because murder is illegal".



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @Xyro said:
    Kids aren't idiots

    Yes they are. All of them. Some may be smart for their age, or smarter than you expect them to be, but they're still idiots.

    Then explain how they've been trolling their parents for thousands of years...

    And dont' answer with "because murder is illegal".

    Your post confuses me. Are you saying that trolling is not consistent with idiocy?

    I remember being a kid and being amazed at how often my parents could figure out what I was up to. I thought I was so sneaky. Now, I'm amazed at how transparent my kids are, and how they cannot understand why it's obvious just what they're up to.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Are you saying that trolling is not consistent with idiocy?
     

    Well, there's me.

     @boomzilla said:

    they cannot understand why it's obvious just what they're up to.

    Just you wait until they develop a more advanced model of Theory Of Mind.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @C-Octothorpe said:
    @boomzilla said:
    @Xyro said:
    Kids aren't idiots
    Yes they are. All of them. Some may be smart for their age, or smarter than you expect them to be, but they're still idiots.
    Then explain how they've been trolling their parents for thousands of years...

     

    And dont' answer with "because murder is illegal".

    Your post confuses me. Are you saying that trolling is not consistent with idiocy?

    I remember being a kid and being amazed at how often my parents could figure out what I was up to. I thought I was so sneaky. Now, I'm amazed at how transparent my kids are, and how they cannot understand why it's obvious just what they're up to.

    That's true, however the angle/joke I was trying to make is that even though (according to you) they're stupid, they can manage to drive you completely nuts (at times).  Granted, they're not experienced enough to wait for you to leave the room before trying to get at the candy, but they know how to drive any parent off the edge.

    This is similar to adults who think that kids are never listening or don't hear you, which is absolute bullshit, but it helps adults maintain a feeling of superiority.  Underestimating your enemy is the biggest mistake one can make. 🙂



  • @C-Octothorpe said:


    That's true, however the angle/joke I was trying to make is that even though (according to you) they're stupid, they can manage to drive you completely nuts (at times).  Granted, they're not experienced enough to wait for you to leave the room before trying to get at the candy, but they know how to drive any parent off the edge.

    This is similar to adults who think that kids are never listening or don't hear you, which is absolute bullshit, but it helps adults maintain a feeling of superiority.  Underestimating your enemy is the biggest mistake one can make. 🙂

    Yes.



  • Some kids learn by doing, and having your femur sticking out the side of your leg is pretty educational.



  • @Xyro said:

    There is a tremendous difference in the reasoning capabilities of a 3-, 5-, and 15-year old. When they're little, it's better for them to be taught to just obey. Kids aren't idiots, but at that age, thinking even a moment ahead is indeed a painfully absent skill. And seriously, reasoning and debating with them is futile until they understand that kind of logic, and that doesn't kick in until, oh, maybe 8ish? And even then it's pretty flaky. Now, when they are teenagers, that's a different story. But I haven't gotten that far yet...

    Nevertheless, telling a kid why to do something is almost entirely independent of smacking the kid around until he or she obeys. In my experience, both are necessary, but the latter moreso.

    But in regards to the OP, too bad about the little kid. I'm kind of surprised the revolving door didn't automatically shut off and go into a neutral gear (so to speak) at that kind of resistance, kind of like the way an elevator door does. So afterward the drama, did the parent watch, hold, and guide the little one?


    (my bolding)
    1/10...
    I'd usually take the time to edit the "not-so-stupid" out, but i couldn't find any...
    I have a three year old boy. I'm pretty sure that he understands agreements, or atleast consequences... "agreements" like if you do x with y, then i'm going to take y away, usually work (atleast for a while until he forgets the "agreement")... i'm not saying they're geniuses, but they are freaky smart ... He'll usually find a way around his problems... eg. some evil person put his foam sword away because he was a little pest beating me with it... he'll just find a ball and throw that repeadetly atop of the cabinet where i "hid" the sword, and in the end usually get the sword down (if i don't intervene)... Or if the tablet won't turn on he'll look trough some bags until he finds the charger, and plug the charger in himself... (neither of theese things were something we have instructed him in)
    age of reason: http://www.positivediscipline.com/articles/Time_Out_for_Children.html
    childhood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood

    Disclamer: I'm quite drunk at the moment


    screw CS... it's nice that when it for some arbitrary reason refuses to actually display my post, i just decides to show the latest post, but no error message as to what went wrong.. (i moved a bit of the formatting around, that seemed to fix the damn problem...) It'll only post mabye 12% of the times i try, is it completely arbitrary?



  • @Xyro said:

    But in regards to the OP, too bad about the little kid. I'm kind of surprised the revolving door didn't automatically shut off and go into a neutral gear (so to speak) at that kind of resistance, kind of like the way an elevator door does. So afterward the drama, did the parent watch, hold, and guide the little one?
    When the door smashed into the kid's head, it jammed against him. I think it stopped pushing to turn, but it had no release, so the kid was wedged in. It took three big guys to jerk it back past whatever locking mechanism was holding it in place.

    After the kid calmed down, the mother put him down, and he bolted ahead to get on the escalator - way ahead of his mother. Because little kids never have problems getting off escalators by themselves at the other end.



  •  Don't know about your side of the pond, in the UK those revolving doors have ultra-fine stop sensors -If you touch any part of the door as it turns, it stops in a instant - I've seen some blown in leaves stop the door!



  • @swayde said:

    It'll only post mabye 12% of the times i try, is it completely arbitrary?
     

    It posted all of them al the time. The POST went through, but the return page didn't, apparently, for you, for some reason. I don't care how drunk you are, I expect you to understand how stateless HTTP works.


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