Invitation to say "wtf?"



  • I know I've [url="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/25971/288213.aspx#288213"]ragged on Hotmail before[/url] for their supifying [url="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/t/26008.aspx"]displays of stupifying fuckery[/url]-- but it can't be helped when they continue to prove their superiority in the field of Fuckery (subcategory: Stupifying).

    My hotmail account is basically a dumping ground for newsletters and forum spam, set to "Exclusive". It's a fine mesh sieve that picks out the nutty bits of crap from the liquidy deluge of shit that normally gets flung at it. I do occasionally check the Spam folder for false positives, etc. Hotmail's normally pretty good about recognizing that stuff in the spam folder is toxic, and handles it with rubber gloves and tongs. It disables images, kills tracking bugs, and warns you before letting you click on any links. You can't forward from the junk folder, or even reply to it.  It's one step from quarantine.

    Which is why I was really confused when I saw a particular line item. I'm used to seeing only two icons on the left:  the closed envelope, to denote a piece of mail that hasn't been read-- and an open envelope, to denote a piece of mail that has been read. But wait, what's this third icon I see before me?

    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/URmHM.png[/IMG]

    Holy shit, that isn't an APPOINTMENT is it? Surely that's just a trick of the light? Or maybe a glitch in the system-- and it's just accidentally displaying the appointment icon? Because surely, SURELY Hotmail wouldn't give anonymous, spammy folk a vector to access or modify private resources like a calendar, would they?

    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iButD.png[/IMG]

    Well fuck me to sleep, they have! Thanks, Hotmail. Not only can anonymous, spammy users send me images in subject lines, but now they have an indirect link to modify a calendar that I didn't even know I had. Because what could go wrong with giving anonymous, unauthorized people the ability to add recurring and presumably nagging appointments to my calendar BY EMAIL?!?!

     



  •  Did it go into your calendar or only if you click one of those Accept/Tentative buttons? It would have seen the .ics attachment to give it that icon. There's no way to even see free/busy on a hotmail account, is there?



  •  I don't really see the WTF here. As long as the appointment isn't automaticly added in your calendar. Sending and recieving appointment invitations by email is something normal nowadays. Gmail also does it.



  • Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.



  • @SilentRunner said:

    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.
     

    You trollin'?



  • This looks to me more that Hotmail looked in the E-mail, saw "oh, hey, this looks like a date, I should mark it as an appointment" or as others have mentioned the .ics file. I suppose there definitely is a side of WTF-ery, especially if it actually adds things to your calendar.

    @SilentRunner said:

    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.
     

    I fucking agree!



  • So long as it doesn't allow someone else to see my calandar, what's the issue here? That someone you know could send you an invitation? Big wow.

     

    So long as the messages are still filtered for SPAM (as this one was), then there shouldn't be a problem.



  • @Hewes said:

    So long as it doesn't allow someone else to see my calandar, what's the issue here? That someone you know could send you an invitation? Big wow.

    So long as the messages are still filtered for SPAM (as this one was), then there shouldn't be a problem.


    As far as I know, it doesn't automatically add to the calendar. But it is one errant click away from doing so. Given that the junk folder is meant to minimize the impact spammers can have on your inbox-- going so far as to disable images, hyperlinks, replies and forwards, all to prevent any sort of confusion that this is a legitimate email.  I can't think of any reason why an attachment with processing logic attached to it would be let through. Especially not in huge, giant, familiar icons.

    And since there's no way in hell I'm clicking ACCEPT, I don't know what access this gives the spammer to my calendar. Accept or decline, it confirms that my email address is valid and that I have a calendar. Images and hyperlinks in the junk folder are disabled to prevent confirming the address exists and is valid. If I accept, maybe it allows the spammer to add future appointments to my calendar. Maybe they can modify the appointment to be one that says "BUY VIAGARA", and recurs every 1 minute with a reminder pop-up. Maybe it exposes some other private information-- like my name, location, timezone.

    There's obviously some hidden value to a spammer getting their foot into my calendar's door, or else why would they send this?  And if there's value in it, and there's already a precedence for blocking ANYTHING that might be of value for a message in the junk folder--  why in the world would this be allowed?

    My point is that there is a ton of unknown stuff that can go wrong. It's going wrong in a supposed "secure" location. And it gives spammers another vector of attack to exploit.

    Oh, and SilentRunner: calling people out on their use of "fuck" whilst describing Microsoft's fuckery is a fucking form of fuckery all on it's fucking own. It's also bad trolling. Sure, calling trolls out on their trolling is a form of fuckery unto itself, but who the fuck cares?

    [url="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/26008/288553.aspx#288553"]Runner, if you were in my forum and didn't use language like that anywhere, you
    would have been out the door yesterday. I demand respect for fellow
    fuckeries in my forum.[/url]


     



  • @SilentRunner said:

    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.

    You are being ironic, right? You DO know what WTF stands for, don't you??


  • sockdevs

    @Lorne Kates said:

    But it is one errant click away from doing so.

    Only if you're stupid enough to accept calendar items from the Junk folder. And since you have to explicitly go to the Junk folder to see the item in the first place, I don't see the WTF here.

    And to fend off the inevitable response, Hotmail probably didn't open the attachment; it just saw the.ics extension, and offered the buttons in response. Even if it did open the .ics, it's on the Hotmail servers, so it's not like you're getting a drive-by-download or anything.

     



  • @SilentRunner said:

    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.

     Maybe this would be better.

    http://i.minus.com/idCRsYajqpgF1.png



  • @El_Heffe said:

     Maybe this would be better.

    http://i.minus.com/idCRsYajqpgF1.png

     

    That's a bit crude, don't you think? Violence only begets violence.

     



  • 'Stupefying fuckery' now has a permanent place in my personal lexicon.  Thanks Lorne.



  • @rstinejr said:

    @SilentRunner said:
    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.

    You are being ironic, right? You DO know what WTF stands for, don't you??

    Worse Than Failure.  It refers to things that just barely work even when they probably shouldn't, which is even worse than failing code, because at least failing code gets fixed.  But if it's borderline (in the Worse Than Failure zone) then some PHB is likely to say "don't touch it, it works and we don't want to break it.  Don't you have new features to write anyway?"

    And SilentRunner's quite right.  Vulgarity is the hallmark of a tragically limited vocabulary.  This is supposed to be a place for intelligent people, and talking like that makes you look like the exact opposite.

     



  • @RaceProUK said:

    @Lorne Kates said:
    But it is one errant click away from doing so.
    Only if you're stupid enough to accept calendar items from the Junk folder. And since you have to explicitly go to the Junk folder to see the item in the first place, I don't see the WTF here.

    And to fend off the inevitable response, Hotmail probably didn't open the attachment; it just saw the.ics extension, and offered the buttons in response. Even if it did open the .ics, it's on the Hotmail servers, so it's not like you're getting a drive-by-download or anything.

    If it is working like Microsoft Outlook handles it... Outlook for your convience will add any meeting invites you get to your calendar as tentative until you accept or reject the meeting notice.   I never get meeting notices in my junk mail so I would not know if it would get auto added to my calendar or not.  If it did then it would create a very annoying possibility of someone spamming me (or any Outlook user) with countless calendar invites that start in 1 min increments (with reminders turned on for all of them).



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    As far as I know, it doesn't automatically add to the calendar. But it is one errant click away from doing so.

    OH NOES!

    ... oh wait that doesn't change anything. You're also "one errant click" away from marking the sender as trusted, or having the email load images, or whatever. So.

    @Lorne Kates said:

    And since there's no way in hell I'm clicking ACCEPT, I don't know what access this gives the spammer to my calendar.

    Here's a simple rule: if it's spam, don't hit "Accept". Now your question is moot. Yay.

    @Lorne Kates said:

    There's obviously some hidden value to a spammer getting their foot into my calendar's door, or else why would they send this? And if there's value in it, and there's already a precedence for blocking ANYTHING that might be of value for a message in the junk folder-- why in the world would this be allowed?

    An email with a calendar invite is the same as any other email. Why should it be treated differently?



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    This is supposed to be a place for intelligent people,

    Whoa, when did that happen?



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    Vulgarity is the hallmark of a tragically limited vocabulary.
     

    Hwæt?! Have you read Lorne's original post? You have read that fine poetry yet still accuse him of limited vocabulary?

    Despite the repeated demonstrations of the opposite, you continue to perpetuate this drivel; not becaus it's true, but solely because of your oddly hyperdelicate sensibilities. I am unable to comprehend why you would allow yourself to be offended even if it means completely ignoring what a person has to say. This is your prerogative, of course, but it's also really fucking stupid, and even if you are unwilling to modify your impractical, unproductive, uncooperative perceptions of this world, at the very least do us all a favour and quit whining. Your cries of indignation— meaningless, vapid distractions that they are— are a greater smudge upon these forums than any number of typed fucks.

     I leave you now with this excellent reflective number from a poet whose prosaic prowess is greater than mine.

     



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    Given that the junk folder is meant to minimize the impact spammers can have on your inbox-- going so far as to disable images, hyperlinks, replies and forwards, all to prevent any sort of confusion that this is a legitimate email.
     

    I'm with Ol' Katesy on that one - I'd have expected those options to have been disabled for mail in the Junk folder, requiring you to de-categorise the junkness before permitting the appointment to be processed normally. I know it's a few more mouse clicks, but there's a reason for that folder, after all.



  • @dhromed said:

     I leave you now with this excellent reflective number
     

    That's just secured a place on my in-car MP3 player.

    Alternative version.



  • @Anketam said:

    @RaceProUK said:

    @Lorne Kates said:
    But it is one errant click away from doing so.
    Only if you're stupid enough to accept calendar items from the Junk folder. And since you have to explicitly go to the Junk folder to see the item in the first place, I don't see the WTF here.

    And to fend off the inevitable response, Hotmail probably didn't open the attachment; it just saw the.ics extension, and offered the buttons in response. Even if it did open the .ics, it's on the Hotmail servers, so it's not like you're getting a drive-by-download or anything.

    If it is working like Microsoft Outlook handles it... Outlook for your convience will add any meeting invites you get to your calendar as tentative until you accept or reject the meeting notice.   I never get meeting notices in my junk mail so I would not know if it would get auto added to my calendar or not.  If it did then it would create a very annoying possibility of someone spamming me (or any Outlook user) with countless calendar invites that start in 1 min increments (with reminders turned on for all of them).

    You forgot the best part. Outlook won't let you simply remove an appointment, you must accept or reject, and any of those actions send a reply by default.

    So, does Hotmail allow you to delete an appointment at the trash folder?

     



  • @Cassidy said:

    @dhromed said:
    I leave you now with this excellent reflective number
    That's just secured a place on my in-car MP3 player.

    Alternative version.

    ... if there exists a My Little Ponies version, why the fuck would Dhromed link the non-My Little Ponies version? I do not understand this mentality.



  • @Mcoder said:

    You forgot the best part. Outlook won't let you simply remove an appointment, you must accept or reject, and any of those actions send a reply by default.

    Has it ever occurred to you to try the "delete" key? Or are you just trolling me? And you successfully trolled me?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Mcoder said:
    You forgot the best part. Outlook won't let you simply remove an appointment, you must accept or reject, and any of those actions send a reply by default.
    Has it ever occurred to you to try the "delete" key? Or are you just trolling me? And you successfully trolled me?
    More recent feature I came across when I deleted a reoccuring meeting notice that I had originally accepted but no longer needed so I had deleted (Did not decline): Outlook for my convience recreated the meeting notice and readded it to my calendar.  After it did this twice for the meeting I looked in the deleted folder for clues and there was an outlook temp email saying to stop the recreating of the meeting notice I had to decline it.  What part of delete does Outlook not understand?



  • @blakeyrat said:

    why the fuck would Dhromed link the non-My Little Ponies version? I do not understand this mentality.
     

    The ponies get tiresome, man. It's like an old joke.



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    why the fuck would Dhromed link the non-My Little Ponies version? I do not understand this mentality.
    The ponies get tiresome, man. It's like an old joke.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @dhromed said:
    @blakeyrat said:
    why the fuck would Dhromed link the non-My Little Ponies version? I do not understand this mentality.
    The ponies get tiresome, man. It's like an old joke.

     

    Ponies suck y'all!



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @dhromed said:
    @blakeyrat said:
    why the fuck would Dhromed link the non-My Little Ponies version? I do not understand this mentality.
    The ponies get tiresome, man. It's like an old joke.

    Ponies suck y'all!



  •  just playin'

    ponies don't suck I just hate 'em



  • Good because I'm out of image macros and too lazy to FTP more to my webserver.



  •  That means I win!



  •  @dhromed said:

     That means I win!

    A CHALLENGER APPEARS.

    Ponies suck y'all


    [img]http://bc-programming.com/images/ohyeahproveitsmall.png [/img]

     



  • What's with the curly hair Twilight? That's not you at all! sobs

    Now that's more like it.



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @SilentRunner said:

    Lorne Kates, your use of the F-word does nothing to enhance your credibility or reputation. In fact, it makes you appear to be a 20-something or, worse yet, a teeny-bopper.

     Maybe this would be better.

    http://i.minus.com/idCRsYajqpgF1.png

    That looks like Alan Cox the day Intel will have drained all his positive energy


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