Windows 8



  • Anyone tried Windows 8 yet? I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox) and spending 30 minutes to a few hours playing with it. Whether you're an Apple fan, a Linux geek or the most passionate Microsoft lover in the world: I can guarantee you, you will hate it.

    The real WTF is Windows 8, and it will forever be TRWTF. Nothing can top that.

    Here is a nice list of things you might try to do (and don't forget to time how long it took you):

    - Change your "Metro" (or "Start") colour;

    - Resize an "app";

    - Close an "app" (like the "Store" one);

    - Set your Time and Date settings to Dutch (since you live in the Netherlands) while having the US-English version installed (because it's your mother language), then pay attention to the language displayed in "Start";

    - Use any application which is not "Metro"-styled (eg. notepad);

    - Try to search for any control panel item without having to use your mouse (in Windows 7: start button, type in eg. "proga" for "Add and remove programs");

    - Shut down your PC.

    Bonus: launch the task manager and have a laugh.

    I could list some things that are bad about it, but trust me: try it and you'll see. If you've tried it and you're still confused about what the WTF is, I could elaborate (although you might make an appointment with your shrink in the mean time).

    I cannot believe that they are actually going to release this. I'm becoming more and more sad that the majority of the games only run on Windows. If they're going to push this for Windows 9 as well (rather than revert), I predict a very grim future. Although seeing ME was crap and XP good, and Vista was bad and 7 good again, I do have slight hopes for 9.



  • @pbean said:

    Anyone tried Windows 8 yet? I can strongly recommend downloading the Release
    Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox)
    I'm quite happy with my pet XP running in VirtualBox TYVM. The most it has to cope with at work is running OutHouse for the inevitable meeting announcements I don't usually bother with. (And Security Essentials, and whatever else it wants to do - it's only been given 1 CPU and 512M of memory to play with.)



  • @PJH said:

    I'm quite happy with my pet XP running in VirtualBox TYVM. The most it has to cope with at work is running OutHouse for the inevitable meeting announcements I don't usually bother with. (And Security Essentials, and whatever else it wants to do - it's only been given 1 CPU and 512M of memory to play with.)
     

    Ah yes, purely for virtualisation purposed, XP is more than enough. On my laptop running Linux, I have XP in a VM as well. But on my gaming rig, I find that 7 has some very nice improvements over XP.

    In any case, I still challenge you to try 8 for a laugh. 😉

     

    Windows 8 Release Preview can be found here by the way: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download (don't forget to choose ISO in the small link below the big download button, if you prefer that).



  • @pbean said:

    Close an "app" (like the "Store" one);

    This is not specific to Windows 8, this is a mobile thing, a new take on resource management. On my Nexus apps cannot be closed either, what I don't use actively gets serialized unless there is a keep-alive of sorts (which I am warned about when I install an app). If for some reason I really want the app to stop doing what it is doing I can use the phone "back" button to get back to the splash screen. At first it feels weird but I got used to it.



  • @pbean said:

    - Shut down your PC.

    This one's easy: from the "Machine" menu, select "Send ACPI shutdown"



    Oh, you meant from within Windows?



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    @pbean said:

    Close an "app" (like the "Store" one);

    This is not specific to Windows 8, this is a mobile thing, a new take on resource management. On my Nexus apps cannot be closed either, what I don't use actively gets serialized unless there is a keep-alive of sorts (which I am warned about when I install an app). If for some reason I really want the app to stop doing what it is doing I can use the phone "back" button to get back to the splash screen. At first it feels weird but I got used to it.

    That's all well and good if you're running Windows 8 on a mobile device, but what if you're running it on a Desktop PC or Workstation?



  • @Quietust said:

    That's all well and good if you're running Windows 8 on a mobile device, but what if you're running it on a Desktop PC or Workstation?
     

    That is pretty much the statement of my dislike of Metro. It might look OK on a movile screen of a few cm and a few hundred pixels across but it sucks on a 1680×1050 widescreen monitor. It also sucks when using a mouse.

    I also have to say that it is hideously ugly! WTF is it with all those monochrome blue and orange boxes?

    Microsoft - your core premise is flawed. One UI to fit al devices does not work!

     



  • Started skimming your post after you said VirtualBox.

    What's wrong with the task manager?  I looked at several screenshots of it a second ago, and it appears more useful than the Win 7 task manager (and that was a masive improvement over XP).

    You should run it on something that can use the GPU.  Like natively on the machine or with VMWare Workstation.

    I doubt I'll switch from 7, since 8 does look like a bit of a rushed kludge designed by hipster doofuses.



  • @pbean said:

    Anyone tried Windows 8 yet? I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox) and spending 30 minutes to a few hours playing with it. Whether you're an Apple fan, a Linux geek or the most passionate Microsoft lover in the world: I can guarantee you, you will hate it.

    This post is not a repeat of Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98...



  • @havokk said:

    @Quietust said:

    That's all well and good if you're running Windows 8 on a mobile device, but what if you're running it on a Desktop PC or Workstation?
     

    That is pretty much the statement of my dislike of Metro. It might look OK on a movile screen of a few cm and a few hundred pixels across but it sucks on a 1680×1050 widescreen monitor. It also sucks when using a mouse.

    I also have to say that it is hideously ugly! WTF is it with all those monochrome blue and orange boxes?

    Microsoft - your core premise is flawed. One UI to fit al devices does not work!

     

    You have to understand them. For 20 years they were chanting the same mantra: "one PC on every desk and Microsoft in every PC" but now people have mobile devices so they are lost because there is not one clear place where people put the mobile devices. Unlike Apple who is using "at least one Apple device on each table in each trendy coffee shop".



  • @blakeyrat said:

    This post is not a repeat of Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98...
     

    Certainly not! It's totally different! This time Microsoft has gone too far and it is the year of the Linux desktop!

     The way I see it, Win8 is trying to look forward- their premise is that a lot of machines are going to be touch devices, even desktop machines, and interfaces designed for mice and similar pointing devices don't often lend themselves well to touch; particularly when they make heavy use of things like hovering.

     I used it for a bit myself and can't say that I liked it, but I also can say the same thing for every new release of Windows since windows 95. One good thing I can think of is that with Win8 it's probably a lot easier to test mobile-oriented applications, since a lot of the interface is similar to mobile devices, so in some cases you can write a metro application once, and have it work on several platforms. I personally thought of it as a "extension" of the Windows sidebar concept, myself.

     

     

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @pbean said:
    Anyone tried Windows 8 yet? I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox) and spending 30 minutes to a few hours playing with it. Whether you're an Apple fan, a Linux geek or the most passionate Microsoft lover in the world: I can guarantee you, you will hate it.

    This post is not a repeat of Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98...

    I see that you did not mention Windows Me, either it's a psychological mechanism protecting you from painful memories, or you skipped over it because it would have made your point weaker because it was the first time people bashing a new Windows were 100% right.



  •  Aside from artificially preventing users from accessing a pure DOS prompt, I never really understood what the noise regarding ME was all about.



  •  



  • @El_Heffe said:

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

    Or even Mac in the 1980s:


     



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    You have to understand them. For 20 years they were chanting the same mantra: "one PC on every desk and Microsoft in every PC" but now people have mobile devices so they are lost because there is not one clear place where people put the mobile devices. Unlike Apple who is using "at least one Apple device on each table in each trendy coffee shop".

     

    Get ready for "One device in every pocket."

     



  • And even better -

    if you slide Metro off to the left eventually you get to a page of disorganised legacy application and settings icons orphaned on the desktop.

    It felt to me like some git had stuck a sticky label over the Windows Start button when you finally get to a proper desktop, that flips you back into Metro. 

    At least our VB6 application still works on the Developer Preview.

     

    Roll on Windows 9 where hopefully sanity will prevail over marketing crap.



  • @pbean said:

    I cannot believe that they are actually going to release this.

     

     

    You must have been living in a cave for the last ten years, releasing bad products is an intentional marketting strategy for Microsoft which started back in the day of Windows ME.

    I know this because I used to work at box builders who bought OEM licenses, here is how it works.

    If you are selling windows on a new machine, you can sell it with an OEM license which is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a retail copy.

    When you get big enough and start buying up enough of them, Microsoft approach you with deals for even cheaper bulk copies of Windows, however there is a catch. Every PC you now sell HAS to have windows installed, you can supply media for another OS if you like but it will come installed with Windows even if the customer doesn't want it.

    So, every PC a sizeable OEM sells means a copy of Windows. Microsoft no longer has to make a good product to attract customers, people buy their shit whether they like it or not.

    So what happened when that piece of crap Windows ME came out? It sold anyway, even though it was shit, then people would come back so pissed off with ME and buy a retail copy of Win98.

    By accident, Microsoft discovered it coud make more money with a flop than with a hit. Once they learnt this the pattern has become clear:

    Win98 - It worked back in the day.

    WinME - Pile of manure.

    XP - Pretty good, based on 2k.

    Vista - Awful piece of shit, shipped on machines if you wanted it or not, people paid to get XP back.

    Win7 - Pretty good, its got the prettiness they tried to get into Vista but it actually works like XP.

    Win8 - well... are you seeing the pattern yet?

     

     



  • @pbean said:

    I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox)
    Well did so, and the first WTF I noticed was while installing (and choosing the 'advanced' setup if that's relevant.) They (1) require an email address to "sign into Windows 8. We won't send you spam" (you can't skip this bit) and (2) They reject valid email addresses such as those that use a + in the local part.



    Next, they want to know where you live - selecting UK as the Country/region requires you to enter the postcode



    The answer to your 'secret question' to retrieve your password "must be at least 5 characters long." So Pete and Dave can't be your 'best childhood friend,' Fido can't be your first pet etc.



    And when did they decide that reCAPTCHA would be a nice idea as part of the installation procedure?



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    @pbean said:

    I cannot believe that they are actually going to release this.

     

     

    You must have been living in a cave for the last ten years, releasing bad products is an intentional marketting strategy for Microsoft which started back in the day of Windows ME.

    I know this because I used to work at box builders who bought OEM licenses, here is how it works.

    If you are selling windows on a new machine, you can sell it with an OEM license which is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a retail copy.

    When you get big enough and start buying up enough of them, Microsoft approach you with deals for even cheaper bulk copies of Windows, however there is a catch. Every PC you now sell HAS to have windows installed, you can supply media for another OS if you like but it will come installed with Windows even if the customer doesn't want it.

    So, every PC a sizeable OEM sells means a copy of Windows. Microsoft no longer has to make a good product to attract customers, people buy their shit whether they like it or not.

    So what happened when that piece of crap Windows ME came out? It sold anyway, even though it was shit, then people would come back so pissed off with ME and buy a retail copy of Win98.

    By accident, Microsoft discovered it coud make more money with a flop than with a hit. Once they learnt this the pattern has become clear:

    Win98 - It worked back in the day.

    WinME - Pile of manure.

    XP - Pretty good, based on 2k.

    Vista - Awful piece of shit, shipped on machines if you wanted it or not, people paid to get XP back.

    Win7 - Pretty good, its got the prettiness they tried to get into Vista but it actually works like XP.

    Win8 - well... are you seeing the pattern yet?

     

     

    You can even go way back in time and you'll find the same thing happened with Windows 3.11 -> Win95.



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    Vista - Awful piece of shit.

    Win7 - it actually works like XP.

     

    These claims are false. 

    Try saying some true things. It will do you good.

     



  • @PJH said:

    And when did they decide that reCAPTCHA would be a nice idea as part of the installation procedure?

    WTF were they thinking?



  • resize/close an app -> 2 seconds when working on desktp, 1 minute to find out how to transfert on desktop,you can close in 1 second by just sliding down your app

    date / time/ settings -> 1 minute to find the metro menu on the right then  "pc settings" in metro

    close an app -> good old alt-f4 🙂 or swipe down

    notepad -> good old windows - r or right click -> all apps -> notepad

     control panelwith keyboard -> windows - r -> type "control panel" 🙂

     shutdown -> metro menu ->power -> shutdown

     

    bonus: what's there to laugh at, it seems quite complete, hitory graph, ressource usage by process / user, list of existing process and so on.

     

     



  • @dhromed said:

    @EncoreSpod said:

    Vista - Awful piece of shit.

    Win7 - it actually works like XP.

     

    These claims are false. 

    Try saying some true things. It will do you good.

     

    These claims are true, IMO. I find that win7 uses way less resources (more comparable to XP than to Vista) to achieve much better results (such as file copying taking less time than under Vista)



  • @steenbergh said:

    I find that win7 uses way less resources (more comparable to XP than to Vista) to achieve much better results (such as file copying taking less time than under Vista)

    Windows 7 actually works like XP because it uses less resources than Vista?

    Vista is an awful piece of shit because its file copy is a bit slower than 7?

    What are you smoking?



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    @pbean said:

    I cannot believe that they are actually going to release this.

     

     

    You must have been living in a cave for the last ten years, releasing bad products is an intentional marketting strategy for Microsoft which started back in the day of Windows ME.

    I know this because I used to work at box builders who bought OEM licenses, here is how it works.

    If you are selling windows on a new machine, you can sell it with an OEM license which is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a retail copy.

    When you get big enough and start buying up enough of them, Microsoft approach you with deals for even cheaper bulk copies of Windows, however there is a catch. Every PC you now sell HAS to have windows installed, you can supply media for another OS if you like but it will come installed with Windows even if the customer doesn't want it.

    So, every PC a sizeable OEM sells means a copy of Windows. Microsoft no longer has to make a good product to attract customers, people buy their shit whether they like it or not.

    So what happened when that piece of crap Windows ME came out? It sold anyway, even though it was shit, then people would come back so pissed off with ME and buy a retail copy of Win98.

    By accident, Microsoft discovered it coud make more money with a flop than with a hit. Once they learnt this the pattern has become clear:

    Win98 - It worked back in the day.

    WinME - Pile of manure.

    XP - Pretty good, based on 2k.

    Vista - Awful piece of shit, shipped on machines if you wanted it or not, people paid to get XP back.

    Win7 - Pretty good, its got the prettiness they tried to get into Vista but it actually works like XP.

    Win8 - well... are you seeing the pattern yet?

     

     


    Your "pattern" falls apart as soon as you include Windows NT and Windows 2000.
    @Quietust said:
    @Speakerphone Dude said:
    @pbean said:

    Close an "app" (like the "Store" one);

    This is not specific to Windows 8, this is a mobile thing, a new take on resource management. On my Nexus apps cannot be closed either, what I don't use actively gets serialized unless there is a keep-alive of sorts (which I am warned about when I install an app). If for some reason I really want the app to stop doing what it is doing I can use the phone "back" button to get back to the splash screen. At first it feels weird but I got used to it.

    That's all well and good if you're running Windows 8 on a mobile device, but what if you're running it on a Desktop PC or Workstation?

    Yeah, what if, man! What if!

    So, some application takes up some RAM you're not using at the moment. So what? And as soon as you need that memory, unused apps get tossed out. I don't really see the problem.



  • @steenbergh said:

    These claims are true, IMO.

    Just because they're true in your opinion doesn't make them fact.



  • @BC_Programmer said:

     Aside from artificially preventing users from accessing a pure DOS prompt, I never really understood what the noise regarding ME was all about.


    They took Win98 and totally fucked it up without improving anything at all?

     



  • @steenbergh said:

    I find that win7 uses way less resources (more comparable to XP than to Vista)

    It doesn't use FEWER resources, but it uses its resources smarter. It is true that Microsoft didn't anticipate the netbook market, and thus didn't prioritize on making Vista run on a 1 ghz Atom CPU. This doesn't make Vista a bad OS.

    @steenbergh said:

    (such as file copying taking less time than under Vista)

    You know how I know you've never used fucking Vista, you hack?

    Use the product you're criticizing, dumbfuck. Or I'll come in here and call you a "dumbfuck" when you write ignorant bullshit you copied from Slashdot about it.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @El_Heffe said:

     

    I lol'd.



  • Look people, this same topic comes up (at least in the geek community, which is inexplicably filled with luddites and people who hate new technology) Every. Single. Fucking. Time. Microsoft releases a new version of Windows. WE GET IT. YOU HATE CHANGE. Just put a message in your profile saying, "I'm a crotchety idiot who hates change" and save us all the time of having to read bullshit like this.

    Why don't we save the discussion of new products for people who actually like new products?

    And you people who hate them, here's some advice: don't fucking use them and shut the fuck up and go away.

    I don't like EA the company, so I simply don't buy EA games. I don't post a new topic every time they release a game listing all my bitches because I know nobody else gives a fuck: they're either ok with EA and thus will buy, or aren't and thus won't. It's a binary choice. This Internet behavior of, "I'm going to buy the product but spend all my time bitching about how much it sucks" is wholly new and strange to me. Why would you do that? Are you retarded? I'll go with "retarded" until someone presents a better theory.



  • @BC_Programmer said:

     Aside from artificially
    preventing users from accessing a pure DOS prompt, I never really
    understood what the noise regarding ME was all about.

     

    Let me crash tell you blue screen about Windows ME crash.

    Although, as I recall, disabling System Restore fixed most of ME's crashing problems.   Which goes to show you how badly grafting System Restore onto Win9x worked...



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Why don't we save the discussion of new products for people who actually like new products?

    And you people who hate them, here's some advice: don't fucking use them and shut the fuck up and go away.

    Amen. If I never hear another rant about java or a java IDE it will be too soon.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    This Internet behavior of, "I'm going to buy the product but spend all my time bitching about how much it sucks" is wholly new and strange to me. Why would you do that? Are you retarded? I'll go with "retarded" until someone presents a better theory.

    You're forgetting recreational bitching.



  • @PedanticCurmudgeon said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    This Internet behavior of, "I'm going to buy the product but spend all my time bitching about how much it sucks" is wholly new and strange to me. Why would you do that? Are you retarded? I'll go with "retarded" until someone presents a better theory.

     

    You're forgetting recreational bitching.
     

    That.

    This behaviour existed long before the internet - the interwebz have just raised its profile. Same as "cyberstalking" - it's called "bullying" and it doesn't require Facebook or Myspace et al.

    I honestly think some people bitch for the sake of bitching, as though their lives are so unfulfilled they require pessimism just to exist. Getting drawn into an argument is depressing and futile, just fuck them off and let them stew in their own bitter juices.

    Then there are satirists that bitch in a constructive and humorous manner. But that's different.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Look people, this same topic comes up (at least in the geek community, which is inexplicably filled with luddites and people who hate new technology) Every. Single. Fucking. Time. Microsoft releases a new version of Windows. WE GET IT. YOU HATE CHANGE.
     

    You are a moron. All signs point to Windows 8 being a legitimately bad desktop OS. What with the bolting together of two completely different UI designs, how can it not be? Even MS knows it's a bad desktop OS. They don't care, they're forcing it on people anyway so that Windows 8 will acclimate people to it so they'll buy Metro-themed tablets and phones.

     



  • @Zylon said:

    You are a moron. All signs point to Windows 8 being a legitimately bad desktop OS.

    It's not even fucking released yet.

    @Zylon said:

    What with the bolting together of two completely different UI designs, how can it not be?

    Early versions of OS X did ok.

    @Zylon said:

    Even MS knows it's a bad desktop OS.

    No they don't. If they did, they wouldn't release it.

    Look, maybe it'll succeed, maybe it'll fail. So what? If you want to use it, buy it. If not, don't. The End.



  • Well, given the crappy way Microsoft has been managed for the past decade, this is perhaps not surprising.

     I use C# in my job (I write software for engineering applications), and I love Visual Studio, but MS is late to the party with phones and tablets.  Trying to push Metro into environments where it doesn't seem to be the best fit, such as desktop applications or VS11 itself, doesn't strike me as a long-term survival strategy.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @PJH said:

    @pbean said:
    I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox)
    Well did so, and the first WTF I noticed was while installing (and choosing the 'advanced' setup if that's relevant.) They (1) require an email address to "sign into Windows 8. We won't send you spam" (you can't skip this bit)

     I stopped reading here because you're wrong.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @pbean said:

    Anyone tried Windows 8 yet? I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox) and spending 30 minutes to a few hours playing with it. Whether you're an Apple fan, a Linux geek or the most passionate Microsoft lover in the world: I can guarantee you, you will hate it.

    The real WTF is Windows 8, and it will forever be TRWTF. Nothing can top that.

    Here is a nice list of things you might try to do (and don't forget to time how long it took you):

    - Change your "Metro" (or "Start") colour;

    - Resize an "app";

    - Close an "app" (like the "Store" one);

    - Set your Time and Date settings to Dutch (since you live in the Netherlands) while having the US-English version installed (because it's your mother language), then pay attention to the language displayed in "Start";

    - Use any application which is not "Metro"-styled (eg. notepad);

    - Try to search for any control panel item without having to use your mouse (in Windows 7: start button, type in eg. "proga" for "Add and remove programs");

    - Shut down your PC.

    Bonus: launch the task manager and have a laugh.

    I could list some things that are bad about it, but trust me: try it and you'll see. If you've tried it and you're still confused about what the WTF is, I could elaborate (although you might make an appointment with your shrink in the mean time).

    I cannot believe that they are actually going to release this. I'm becoming more and more sad that the majority of the games only run on Windows. If they're going to push this for Windows 9 as well (rather than revert), I predict a very grim future. Although seeing ME was crap and XP good, and Vista was bad and 7 good again, I do have slight hopes for 9.

     I can't see what your beef with resizing apps is, unless it's the general idea of not being able to do it.  You're not supposed to resize apps.  Do you gripe that you can't do that on your iphone or android or windows phone?  (Bear in mind apps are more likely to be used on WinRT, and most of those devices are probably going to be smaller form factor than full-size desktops.)

    You can still search for stuff--but since I wiped my Win8 CP VM and haven't yet installed RP I can't tell you how. But it's not really any harder. BTW, while on the desktop, slam your mouse into the bottom left corner and right-click. You'll get a nice surprise.

    I'm not sure what your complaint is for non-app applications, except that not everything is visible immediately. You might try right-clicking on the start screen and seeing what happens. BTW did you know you can reorder your tiles?

    There's some things I am not happy with--I'll buy your "shut down PC" complaint, but I'm hoping either they'll fix that by release, or if not, I'll make a desktop shortcut and stop worrying about it. A lot of this is just "I don't like stuff that's different," though.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @EncoreSpod said:

    WinME - Pile of manure.

     Wrong.  (I was in the beta.  Now, I did buy an HP with Me that ran like crap, but guess what?  That was all the shovelware that HP put on it.  I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled Me clean and it ran far better.)



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    On my Nexus apps cannot be closed either, what I don't use actively gets serialized unless there is a keep-alive of sorts (which I am warned about when I install an app). If for some reason I really want the app to stop doing what it is doing I can use the phone "back" button to get back to the splash screen.
    I'm pretty sure you can close them... which Nexus are you referring to? On the Galaxy Nexus running 4.0.x, hitting the overlapping-windows "change apps" (i.e. alt-tab) button brings up a list of all user-land apps in memory. Swiping an app off the right side of the screen should close it (or force-close it, if need be).


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @tchize said:

    resize/close an app -> 2 seconds when working on desktp, 1 minute to find out how to transfert on desktop,you can close in 1 second by just sliding down your app

    date / time/ settings -> 1 minute to find the metro menu on the right then  "pc settings" in metro

    close an app -> good old alt-f4 🙂 or swipe down

    notepad -> good old windows - r or right click -> all apps -> notepad

     control panelwith keyboard -> windows - r -> type "control panel" 🙂

     shutdown -> metro menu ->power -> shutdown

    bonus: what's there to laugh at, it seems quite complete, hitory graph, ressource usage by process / user, list of existing process and so on.

    Everythign here is true, but MS could make it more discoverable.  Most of the stuff like "swipe down apps" I had to discover by reading the B8 blog.

     His bitching about the task manager is that by default it just shows you a list of app names and "advanced" and "close" buttons.  I'll bet he doesn't even know why MS did that.  I wonder if he saw the advanced view, which is far better than the current one.



  • @FrostCat said:

    I can't see what your beef with resizing apps is, unless it's the general idea of not being able to do it.  You're not supposed to resize apps. 

    Sounds like they ought to rename the OS to "Window" instead.



  • @North Bus said:

    @Speakerphone Dude said:
    On my Nexus apps cannot be closed either, what I don't use actively gets serialized unless there is a keep-alive of sorts (which I am warned about when I install an app). If for some reason I really want the app to stop doing what it is doing I can use the phone "back" button to get back to the splash screen.
    I'm pretty sure you can close them... which Nexus are you referring to? On the Galaxy Nexus running 4.0.x, hitting the overlapping-windows "change apps" (i.e. alt-tab) button brings up a list of all user-land apps in memory. Swiping an app off the right side of the screen should close it (or force-close it, if need be).

    Are you sure they are closed an not just removed from the alt-tab list? I just tried to remove the browser and a notepad application, and after I restarted them both were in the state I left them when I removed them from the list. Given the fact that none of the apps has a "close" button or option, that would mean that there is an accepted standard that applications are to be closed by being removed from that alt-tab list, which is lame.



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    Are you sure they are closed an not just removed from the alt-tab list? I just tried to remove the browser and a notepad application, and after I restarted them both were in the state I left them when I removed them from the list. Given the fact that none of the apps has a "close" button or option, that would mean that there is an accepted standard that applications are to be closed by being removed from that alt-tab list, which is lame.

    The lifecycle of a mobile app is such that it is notified when it is placed in the background, and in that state the OS has the option to close it. When the application is given notice of backgrounding or closing, it can serialize it state so that the state gets restored when the application is foregrounded or restarted. This is to provide the illusion that the application is always ready, even if the device's resource restrictions require it to run only one or two apps at a time.

    On my Android tablet, swiping a app off the recent-app-list does indeed close it -- if it hasn't already been closed. However, that doesn't mean that the browser will start afresh next time I run it. It can still restore old tabs, and even screen renderings of the websites if the browser is smart enough.

    Here's a picture from their api docs: [url]http://developer.android.com/images/activity_lifecycle.png[/url]

    IMO, this model is a pretty good idea for resource-constrained devices. But is it just as usable on the desktop? Especially in an ecosystem known for the quirky need for restarts and reinstalls and reboots? That remains to be seen.



  • @North Bus said:

    On the Galaxy Nexus running 4.0.x, hitting the overlapping-windows "change apps" (i.e. alt-tab) button brings up a list of all user-land apps in memory. Swiping an app off the right side of the screen should close it (or force-close it, if need be).

    What actually happens when you swipe an app out of the recent apps list?



  • @FrostCat said:

    @PJH said:

    @pbean said:
    I can strongly recommend downloading the Release Preview and installing it (for example using VirtualBox)
    Well did so, and the first WTF I noticed was while installing (and choosing the 'advanced' setup if that's relevant.) They (1) require an email address to "sign into Windows 8. We won't send you spam" (you can't skip this bit)

     I stopped reading here because you're wrong.

    Considering every 'cancel' button on those screens took me back to 'enter your email address' and I couldn't go one step further back, I don't think I am. Perhaps if my VM hadn't been connected to the internet I might not have been asked in the first place, but - no. I *had* to enter an email address to progress with the installation.


  • @Xyro said:

    @Speakerphone Dude said:
    Are you sure they are closed an not just removed from the alt-tab list? I just tried to remove the browser and a notepad application, and after I restarted them both were in the state I left them when I removed them from the list. Given the fact that none of the apps has a "close" button or option, that would mean that there is an accepted standard that applications are to be closed by being removed from that alt-tab list, which is lame.

    The lifecycle of a mobile app is such that it is notified when it is placed in the background, and in that state the OS has the option to close it. When the application is given notice of backgrounding or closing, it can serialize it state so that the state gets restored when the application is foregrounded or restarted. This is to provide the illusion that the application is always ready, even if the device's resource restrictions require it to run only one or two apps at a time.

    On my Android tablet, swiping a app off the recent-app-list does indeed close it -- if it hasn't already been closed. However, that doesn't mean that the browser will start afresh next time I run it. It can still restore old tabs, and even screen renderings of the websites if the browser is smart enough.

    Here's a picture from their api docs: http://developer.android.com/images/activity_lifecycle.png

    IMO, this model is a pretty good idea for resource-constrained devices. But is it just as usable on the desktop? Especially in an ecosystem known for the quirky need for restarts and reinstalls and reboots? That remains to be seen.

    I don't see why there should be a problem. You said it yourself: This approach is used due to the resource-constraints. Now, the desktop has usually more resources which makes it even less of a problem.

    Not to mention that, on x86 devices, the old desktop still exists and the "normal" applications will keep on running.

    I've got the Release Preview running on my Samsung Series 7 slate and safe for one regression with power consumption (for some weird reason CPU keeps at 50% even when "idle" - but that's a confirmed driver issue and should be fixed upon actual release. It also didn't do that when using the Consumer Preview), it works just fine.



  • @Cassidy said:

    @PedanticCurmudgeon said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    This Internet
    behavior of, "I'm going to buy the product but spend all my time bitching about
    how much it sucks" is wholly new and strange to me. Why would you do that? Are
    you retarded? I'll go with "retarded" until someone presents a better
    theory.

     

    You're forgetting recreational bitching.
     

    That.

    This behaviour existed long before the internet - the interwebz have just raised its profile. Same as "cyberstalking" - it's called "bullying" and it doesn't require Facebook or Myspace et al.

    Remember when 'hacking' meant programming instead of illicit access to others' systems (cracking)? Same is happening with 'troll.' Used to mean people being deliberately provocative - now it means (in the UK red-tops anyway) what most of us would call either 'having a different opinion' or 'bulllying' depending on circumstance.

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