$90,000 and counting



  • I have frequently mocked our users for flatly refusing to plan anything out, provide requirements as to data content or format until or after release time, and in general being utterly irresponsible so as to ignore virtually all of our requests/demands for more information as to just what it is they need.

    As such, we simply keep doing the same work over and over with a lot of back sliding, and ever-so-slight forward progress. They even throw money at us to hire more developers to expedite things; developers we don't actually need and didn't ask for, because shortage of manpower is not the problem.

    For the past several months, my boss has had me doing an impromptu improvement on our code to streamline what we calculate and how we save it in order to slow the rate of exlosive growth in our database. Of course, it is proceding like this:

    • Boss: change x
    • Me: Ok, I changed x, but now the output data is different in an unexpected way
    • Boss: oh right, unchange x and change x'
    • <repeat the above 3 more levels, then move on to the next unforseen item>

    Each cycle of build, launch, debug, and walking the code trying to figure out what's not working and why takes several hours, and they don't like me to launch it and leave it running when I go home (so I get in 2 runs/day) because it sucks up system resources from other developers.

    So far, I've billed in excess of $90,000.00 for this little improvement alone, with no end in sight, and no target deliverable because it's an unprioritized-yet-important background task that's not on any schedule.

    Like most folks, if I have a long compile/launch cycle, I use the time to do something else. However, I've been instructed to put in 2 hours on each of 7 projects each day. The fact that there's a lot of sitting around waiting time lets me get it all done in about 6 hours, but I've been instructed to bill for 14 hours because it's policy. Erm, but that's overbilling! It's company policy; do it like that! My boss knows that I go home after 8 hours and that I'm getting the work done, so he doesn't care. I got that one in writing, and have been billing 14 hours for an 8 hour day for quite a while now.

    How do these people get to own big companies and make money?

    And you folks wonder why I stay at this place...



  • @snoofle said:

    I've been instructed to put in 2 hours on each of 7 projects each day. The fact that there's a lot of sitting around waiting time lets me get it all done in about 6 hours, but I've been instructed to bill for 14 hours because it's policy. Erm, but that's overbilling! It's company policy; do it like that!

    Quiet! This is how Tom Cruise almost got killed when he was working for The Firm. Don't blow the whistle, just stash some of the money in the Caimans in case you need to run away from the feds. I can put you in touch with a guy down there if you want.



  • Be careful with that. If the company ever gets in trouble with the law, "lying to a federal agent" is the catch-all felony that they use for anyone
    they want to be a "white-collar criminal" and they can concoct it out of things like those records with distressing ease, doubly so when they want
    to strongarm you into testifying about something.



  • @fennec said:

    Be careful with that. If the company ever gets in trouble with the law, "lying to a federal agent" is the catch-all felony that they use for anyone
    they want to be a "white-collar criminal" and they can concoct it out of things like those records with distressing ease, doubly so when they want
    to strongarm you into testifying about something.

    Snoofle is a smart guy. He'll be holding on to that e-mail, I expect.



  • @toon holding onto that email

    Archived on three separate systems, plus printed copies in multiple secure vaults.

    Some things go in the keep-this-forever pile.



  • You are not the first to be in that situation, and certaintly not the last.  I have come close to being in those situations, but my managers have resolved it in a far more ethical way, which was don't charge idle time to a program if you are working on another program during that idle time.  Obviously this does not work in your [snoofle's] case.  Just for clarity sake... Are you getting paid for the extra 6 hours of over time each day?



  • @Anketam said:

    Are you getting paid for the extra 6 hours of over time each day?
    Yes - 14 hours of pay; 6 at time and a half; for 8 hours of work. For 4 months and counting.



  • @snoofle said:

    @Anketam said:
    Are you getting paid for the extra 6 hours of over time each day?
    Yes - 14 hours of pay; 6 at time and a half; for 8 hours of work. For 4 months and counting.
    A little piece of my brain just BSOD.


  • Fake News

    God damn, what a gig.



  •  It's an immortal being that just keeps dropping gold whenever your hit it!



  • @snoofle said:

    @Anketam said:

    Are you getting paid for the extra 6 hours of over time each day?
    Yes - 14 hours of pay; 6 at time and a half; for 8 hours of work. For 4 months and counting.

    So are you guys hiring?



  • @db2 said:

    So are you guys hiring?

    Look people, I know that the money looks enticing but remember that this is snoofle's type of job aka as snap and snipe your coworkers from a elevated position kind of work, so unless you are suicidal or impervious to homicidal rage (IT support?) then this job is not for you



  • @dhromed said:

    It's an immortal being that just keeps dropping gold whenever your hit it!

    Nah not immortal, if you keep attacking them they drop blue and gold items too when they die. The catch is, they run pretty fast and if you're not quick enough they teleport away before you can do enough damage.

    Wait, we were talking about Diablo III right?



  • He did say that they had been told to increase developer headcount, even though it wasn't desired and wouldn't help.

    To where do I fax my resume?

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @dhromed said:
    It's an immortal being that just keeps dropping gold whenever your hit it!

    Nah not immortal, if you keep attacking them they drop blue and gold items too when they die. The catch is, they run pretty fast and if you're not quick enough they teleport away before you can do enough damage.

    Wait, we were talking about Diablo III right?



    Frost Ray + Numb to the rescue. They barely get off-screen before I nab 'em.

    I need some better loot, though. I'm currently sporting a 14+ wand and I'm starting to not do enough damage to really trample my enemies.

    And what the hell am I supposed to do with these low-number junk drops I pick up? I can't salvage em. Can't even sell 'em because resale value is practically nothing!

    Wasn't there a page on battle.net where you could show off your char?

     



  • @dhromed said:

    I need some better loot, though. I'm currently sporting a 14+ wand and I'm starting to not do enough damage to really trample my enemies.

    And what the hell am I supposed to do with these low-number junk drops I pick up? I can't salvage em. Can't even sell 'em because resale value is practically nothing!

    They rigged the game so you have to use the auction house to get decent equipment. Even your blacksmith is useless, even if you manage to get enough drops to level him up. The cynical would say this was to encourage use of the real-money auction house, for which Blizzard charges a 30% commission.

    @dhromed said:

    Wasn't there a page on battle.net where you could show off your char?

    There is for WOW.



  • @snoofle said:

    I've been instructed to put in 2 hours on each of 7 projects each day. The fact that there's a lot of sitting around waiting time lets me get it all done in about 6 hours, but I've been instructed to bill for 14 hours because it's policy.

    You should take a bathroom break during those hours. That would give you bragging rights that "your shit has been billed on 7 projects at the same time".



  • Dropping names because I don't really care.

    I was a helpdesk monkey contracted (Kelly Services) to IBM Global Services providing support for Circuit City corporate and Panasonic Corporate. Gotta love that 3 levels of outsourcing. Anyway, my phone queue was both CCity and Pany, so I got calls for both in an 8 hour shift. IBM GS charged both companies 8 hours for my time. I of course didn't see squat.



  • @snoofle said:

    My boss knows that I go home after 8 hours and that I'm getting the work done, so he doesn't care. I got that one in writing, and have been billing 14 hours for an 8 hour day for quite a while now.
    Finally, we find out why you haven't quit. Good reason.



  • @Nexzus said:

    Dropping names because I don't really care.

    I was a helpdesk monkey contracted (Kelly Services) to IBM Global Services providing support for Circuit City corporate and Panasonic Corporate. Gotta love that 3 levels of outsourcing. Anyway, my phone queue was both CCity and Pany, so I got calls for both in an 8 hour shift. IBM GS charged both companies 8 hours for my time. I of course didn't see squat.

    This is called leveraged support resources and that is completely different than double billing because both clients are aware that the service desk is shared. They pay an hourly rate that is associated with a specific service level (% of availability, response time, etc.) and based on various other performance indicators (first call resolution, frequency of escalation, call duration, etc.). The business model itself is to share resources (i.e.: you) otherwise the cost is too high for the value provided (no offense intended).

    The value provided by IBM in this situation is not merely to offer your time, but rather to find you, train you, and provide you with the infrastructure needed to support incoming calls and so forth.



  • @Nexzus said:

    Dropping names because I don't really care.

    I was a helpdesk monkey contracted (Kelly Services) to IBM Global Services providing support for Circuit City corporate and Panasonic Corporate. Gotta love that 3 levels of outsourcing. Anyway, my phone queue was both CCity and Pany, so I got calls for both in an 8 hour shift. IBM GS charged both companies 8 hours for my time. I of course didn't see squat.

    And here I thought IBM built themselves on rock-solid products (priced competitively, of course) which were backed by licensed and trained professionals.
    Gotta tell you, I'm shocked and dismayed to hear that IBM would partake in such immoral corporate shenanigans... ಠ_ಠ


  • @blakeyrat said:

    They rigged the game so you have to use the auction house to get decent equipment.

    Blizzard reps have said that the drop rate for items doesn't factor in the existence of the Auction House. I believed it at first, but after doing a couple of Inferno Butcher runs and getting nothing useful or sell-able, I'm having my doubts...

    @blakeyrat said:

    Even your blacksmith is useless, even if you manage to get enough drops to level him up. The cynical would say this was to encourage use of the real-money auction house, for which Blizzard charges a 30% commission.

    Blacksmith prices (and gem prices, but not the really fancy ones) are coming down in the next patch. Which is great, because why would you spend 100k to make a shield with random properties when you can buy a guaranteed good shield off the Auction House for the same price?



  • @dhromed said:

    And what the hell am I supposed to do with these low-number junk drops I pick up? I can't salvage em. Can't even sell 'em because resale value is practically nothing!

    I just stopped picking up gray and white drops around level 12.



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    @Nexzus said:

    Dropping names because I don't really care.

    I was a helpdesk monkey contracted (Kelly Services) to IBM Global Services providing support for Circuit City corporate and Panasonic Corporate. Gotta love that 3 levels of outsourcing. Anyway, my phone queue was both CCity and Pany, so I got calls for both in an 8 hour shift. IBM GS charged both companies 8 hours for my time. I of course didn't see squat.

    And here I thought IBM built themselves on rock-solid products (priced competitively, of course) which were backed by licensed and trained professionals.
    Gotta tell you, I'm shocked and dismayed to hear that IBM would partake in such immoral corporate shenanigans... ಠ_ಠ
    About 40 years ago, (damn I am getting old), my college roommate was hired by IBM as a mainframe repairman. IBM guaranteed a technician on site within the hour after the report of a problem. Initially, my roommate was trained on how to open the back of the computer and call in for a 'part'. The guy who brought the 'part' knew a little more. Does that qualify as a 'trained professional'?

     



  • @lettucemode said:

    @dhromed said:
    And what the hell am I supposed to do with these low-number junk drops I pick up? I can't salvage em. Can't even sell 'em because resale value is practically nothing!

    I just stopped picking up gray and white drops around level 12.

    Jeez. I hope he meant blues. Nobody picks up greys or whites. You do end up with tons of useless blues though.

    Edit: then again I did meet a Skyrim player who complained that the inventory is too tiny (it's not, it's incredibly generous), and when I pressed him it turned out he picked up literally every item in the game that had a sell value-- even plates and forks. He must have had to go back to town like 4 times while raiding a single fort. So who knows what insane people do.

    @lettucemode said:

    Blizzard reps have said that the drop rate for items doesn't factor in the existence of the Auction House. I believed it at first, but after doing a couple of Inferno Butcher runs and getting nothing useful or sell-able, I'm having my doubts...

    Whoever told you that is a filthy liar. If I were a tiny bit more paranoid, I'd even say it's tilted to give you only drops for useful classes you don't play. Everybody I've talked to gets preferential drops for a particular class (mine is witch doctor)-- it's invariably the class they play least.



  • @Rick said:

    About 40 years ago, (damn I am getting old), my college roommate was hired by IBM as a mainframe repairman. IBM guaranteed a technician on site within the hour after the report of a problem. Initially, my roommate was trained on how to open the back of the computer and call in for a 'part'. The guy who brought the 'part' knew a little more.

    The IT group at the client where I work at the moment goes one step further: they always close tickets on first call and qualify them as success even if the problem is still pending. People are unhappy because their problems are not resolved so they call again, and this leads to another successful ticket, or they give up altogether and find a workaround. Senior management sees the first call resolution rate and they are very happy, and business users who complain about IT or have too many tickets are called "lambda users" and told by HR that they will be invited to the next IT orientation to upgrade their basic computer skills.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @lettucemode said:
    @dhromed said:
    And what the hell am I supposed to do with these low-number junk drops I pick up? I can't salvage em. Can't even sell 'em because resale value is practically nothing!
    I just stopped picking up gray and white drops around level 12.
    Jeez. I hope he meant blues. Nobody picks up greys or whites. You do end up with tons of useless blues though.

    Edit: then again I did meet a Skyrim player who complained that the inventory is too tiny (it's not, it's incredibly generous), and when I pressed him it turned out he picked up literally every item in the game that had a sell value-- even plates and forks. He must have had to go back to town like 4 times while raiding a single fort. So who knows what insane people do.

    Well that serves as a lesson for being penny pinching greedy.  You should only be greedy on the big things.  Reminds me of those people who will spend 10+ hours to farm monsters to get a single uber item that will become worthless after a few hours of game progression.



  • @Anketam said:

    Well that serves as a lesson for being penny pinching greedy.  You should only be greedy on the big things.  Reminds me of those people who will spend 10+ hours to farm monsters to get a single uber item that will become worthless after a few hours of game progression.

    The Skyrim example is even more insane because the player would be better off only picking up items with a high value-to-weight value (like magic scrolls or staffs), and the time they save not running back time as often would more than pay for itself in only a couple hours of gameplay.

    I should write an auto-sell mod. Whenever you walk within a couple meters of a sellable item, it just instantly sells it and puts the gold in your inv.



  •  Actually according to how lawyers bill you are under charging. 

    Everytime you start work on a different task you start a new billing hour - no matter how long the task takes it costs a full builling hour. Switch between tasks and you start a new hour each time . Going by what you say you should be billing for about 56 hours a day .... :)



  • @Rick said:

    @C-Octothorpe said:

    @Nexzus said:

    Dropping names because I don't really care.

    I was a helpdesk monkey contracted (Kelly Services) to IBM Global Services providing support for Circuit City corporate and Panasonic Corporate. Gotta love that 3 levels of outsourcing. Anyway, my phone queue was both CCity and Pany, so I got calls for both in an 8 hour shift. IBM GS charged both companies 8 hours for my time. I of course didn't see squat.

    And here I thought IBM built themselves on rock-solid products (priced competitively, of course) which were backed by licensed and trained professionals.
    Gotta tell you, I'm shocked and dismayed to hear that IBM would partake in such immoral corporate shenanigans... ಠ_ಠ
    About 40 years ago, (damn I am getting old), my college roommate was hired by IBM as a mainframe repairman. IBM guaranteed a technician on site within the hour after the report of a problem. Initially, my roommate was trained on how to open the back of the computer and call in for a 'part'. The guy who brought the 'part' knew a little more. Does that qualify as a 'trained professional'?

     

    The litmus I use is this: if he's being paid only $1.22/hr more than someone at McDs, yet being billed to the client at $2700/day, then yes, he is a "trained professional". You'd be surprised how little things like "experience" and "know-how" have to do with it...


  • @blakeyrat said:

    I should write an auto-sell mod. Whenever you walk within a couple meters of a sellable item, it just instantly sells it and puts the gold in your inv.
    Given how quickly you accumulate more gold than you could possibly spend in that game I don't know if there is much point to that.

    Tell you what, you should talk to blakeyrat, he's into the Skyrim modding thing too.



  • In Skirrim the pawnshops have very limited cash-on-hand, no? You can't even sell every fork and plate if you want to. You can give them to the shop for free I guess.



  • @DOA said:

    Given how quickly you accumulate more gold than you could possibly spend in that game I don't know if there is much point to that.

    No point, of course, but the insane people who actually collect every item might appreciate it.

    @DOA said:

    Tell you what, you should talk to blakeyrat, he's into the Skyrim modding thing too.

    That guy's a jerk.



  • @superjer said:

    In Skirrim the pawnshops have very limited cash-on-hand, no? You can't even sell every fork and plate if you want to. You can give them to the shop for free I guess.

    You just fast-travel to another shop when the one you are at runs out of cash. It's stupid, but then again collecting every single fork in the game is stupid too.

    HEY LOTSA SKYRIM COMICS



  • @blakeyrat said:

    There is for WOW.
    I know that realm, its listed as RP, but the bulk of the population treat it like a regular PVE realm.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    They rigged the game so you have to use the auction house to get decent equipment.
     

    That is some vile bullshit, man. But... how do the people there get the decent stuff?!

     @blakeyrat said:

    @dhromed said:
    Wasn't there a page on battle.net where you could show off your char?

    There is for WOW.

    Closest I could get.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    You do end up with tons of useless blues though.
     

    At least you can salvage them.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Nobody picks up greys or whites.

    Yep, I've begun doing this. It feels bad to leave it all on the ground, but it's how it must be.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    HEY LOTSA SKYRIM COMICS

    Made me LOL

    So, what do you think about the Skyrim DLC? The vampire stuff looks cool, while the hunter faction looks quite boring, despite giving the name to the DLC.



  • @esoterik said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    There is for WOW.
    I know that realm, its listed as RP, but the bulk of the population treat it like a regular PVE realm.

    Thanks, Einstein.



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    They rigged the game so you have to use the auction house to get decent equipment.
    That is some vile bullshit, man. But... how do the people there get the decent stuff?!

    Nobody gets decent stuff for themselves. Everybody gets decent stuff for classes other than their own, which they then sell at the auction house. I think you did not absorb the lesson of my post.



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    You do end up with tons of useless blues though.
    At least you can salvage them.

    The mats you get from salvaging them are fucking useless, too. But at least they take up less inventory space. I just vendor blues, since at this point in the game the blacksmith system is just useless annoyance and by the time they fix it I'll be sick of Diablo III and playing something else.

    Oh wait, I'm already sick of Diablo III and playing something else.

    @dhromed said:

    Yep, I've begun doing this. It feels bad to leave it all on the ground, but it's how it must be.

    You are a crazy-person. Call up that show Hoarders, say "I feel bad for leaving virtual fake items in a virtual fake game on the ground instead of picking them up." They won't put you on the show, but I'll sure it'll give them a good laugh.



  • @dargor17 said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    HEY LOTSA SKYRIM COMICS

    Made me LOL

    So, what do you think about the Skyrim DLC? The vampire stuff looks cool, while the hunter faction looks quite boring, despite giving the name to the DLC.

    1. I haven't looked into it at all because I hate spoilers.

    2) It'll break all my mods, and I really don't know if I'll have the energy to fix them.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    You are a crazy-person. Call up that show Hoarders, say "I feel bad for leaving virtual fake items in a virtual fake game on the ground instead of picking them up." They won't put you on the show, but I'll sure it'll give them a good laugh.
     

    :'(



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Nobody gets decent stuff for themselves. Everybody gets decent stuff for classes other than their own, which they then sell at the auction house. I think you did not absorb the lesson of my post.
     

    Yes, sensei.



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Nobody gets decent stuff for themselves. Everybody gets decent stuff for classes other than their own, which they then sell at the auction house. I think you did not absorb the lesson of my post.
    Yes, sensei.

    When you can take the pebble from my hand... then you may leave the monastery.



  • Can I just have it if I promise to throw it at a Blizzard employee really hard?



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    The IT group at the client where I work at the moment goes one step further: they always close tickets on first call and qualify them as success even if the problem is still pending. People are unhappy because their problems are not resolved so they call again, and this leads to another successful ticket, or they give up altogether and find a workaround. Senior management sees the first call resolution rate and they are very happy, and business users who complain about IT or have too many tickets are called "lambda users" and told by HR that they will be invited to the next IT orientation to upgrade their basic computer skills.
     

     Amateurs.

     I worked at a major financial firm (yes, you have all heard of it) which decided to outsource tier 1 support. Any support call at all resulted in a ticket being opened and closed. After all, the person answering the call has completed his task. He created the ticket and forwarded it to someone who was actually going to look at it.

     The guy who looked at it then opened a separate ticket, and closed it. In the meantime, if you were lucky, he thought about your problem and who he was going to forward it to.

    An nauseum. I once called to get a supervisor's fax number, and that resulted in three tickets (average life: 17 seconds).

    The contractor was being paid on the basis of number of tickets and average time to resolution.

     You do not want to penalize those who make lots of calls. They are your cash cow.

     



  • @dhromed said:

    Yes, sensei.

     

     Ugokanai! (whacks with bamboo stick)

     



  • @oheso said:

    @dhromed said:

    Yes, sensei.

     

     Ugokanai! (whacks with bamboo stick)

     

     

    sugoi

     



  • @dhromed said:

    @oheso said:
    @dhromed said:
    Yes, sensei.
      Ugokanai! (whacks with bamboo stick)
     sugoi
    whacks dhromed with bamboo stick 間違った単語! 正しい単語: すごい


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