But whyyyyyyyyyy?!



  •  I just received the following email:


    From: "Argos" <email@email.argos.co.uk>
    To: Vanders
    Subject: Are you sure?

    Hi

    We are sorry to see you have recently chosen not to receive our emails.

    Argos emails are a great way to be the first to know about our best deals, exclusive competitions and much, much more.

    If you didn't mean to unsubscribe or have changed your mind , please us know by clicking the link below:


    So I tell you not to send me emails, and you...send me an email? Fuck you, Argos.



  • That's pretty bad, but a last ditch effort that doesn't hurt them since you already told them to FOAD.

    I once was subscribed to some shit like this, and of course the first email I received, I tried to unsubscribe. It redirected me to a page with some pretty passive aggressive wording... It opened up with "Boo hoo... So sad to see you go" (with the "boo hoo"), followed by an email with the exact same text. Worse still, the emails kept coming, every day, for weeks until I just added a rule to junk any emails from them.



  • @Vanders said:

    So I tell you not to send me emails, and you...send me an email?

     

    That's quite possibly illegal under UK and/or EU regulations.

     



  • I find that quite ironically most newsletter systems send at least 1 email to confirm your unsubscription.  The worst was one that somehow I got subscribed to like 8 lists.. and I removed all of them.. I got 9 confirmation emails.

    Argh.



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    That's pretty bad, but a last ditch effort that doesn't hurt them since you already told them to FOAD.

    I once was subscribed to some shit like this, and of course the first email I received, I tried to unsubscribe. It redirected me to a page with some pretty passive aggressive wording... It opened up with "Boo hoo... So sad to see you go" (with the "boo hoo"), followed by an email with the exact same text. Worse still, the emails kept coming, every day, for weeks until I just added a rule to junk any emails from them.

    The worst are the ones that make you login to unsubscribe (fuck you, I don't know what throw-away password I used 2 years ago, jackass) or which present you with a complex "notification settings" page requiring several clicks to figure out if you're unsubscribed or not. It should be one click.



  • @gu3st said:

    I find that quite ironically most newsletter systems send at least 1 email to confirm your unsubscription.  The worst was one that somehow I got subscribed to like 8 lists.. and I removed all of them.. I got 9 confirmation emails.

    Argh.

    Have you tried the unsubscribe feature in Gmail? Pretty cool - it tries to unsubscribe but if it fails any other email from the same source goes in the trash automatically.



  • @Speakerphone Dude said:

    @gu3st said:
    I find that quite ironically most newsletter systems send at least 1 email to confirm your unsubscription.  The worst was one that somehow I got subscribed to like 8 lists.. and I removed all of them.. I got 9 confirmation emails.

    Argh.

    Have you tried the unsubscribe feature in Gmail? Pretty cool - it tries to unsubscribe but if it fails any other email from the same source goes in the trash automatically.

    You lie! I can find no such feature in Gmail.



  • [url]http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html[/url] suggests the Email List needs to have proper headers.

    Also-

    If you want to unsubscribe without reporting the message as spam, click "show details" in the top-right corner of the message, then click "Unsubscribe from this sender."


  • @cdosrun said:

    http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html suggests the Email List needs to have proper headers.

    Also-

    If you want to unsubscribe without reporting the message as spam, click "show details" in the top-right corner of the message, then click "Unsubscribe from this sender."

    I don't see "show details". There's a "more" drop-down arrow. No unsubscribe option, even though the several messages I checked had List-Unsubscribe headers and came from a well-known source. If it is still an option, it's rare enough I've never seen it, making it virtually useless.



  • @Vanders said:

    So I tell you not to send me emails, and you...send me an email? Fuck you, Argos.
    Not unique to Argos - I got unwanted snail-mail from Legal and General a while back.
    @PJH said:
    @Legal and General said:
    We like to keep our customers up—to—date with all that’s going on, whenever we can. However, because you’ve chosen not to receive marketing communications[3] we’re not able to keep you informed of the latest news, offers, and insights.[4]
    [3] There was a reason for that. I get enough crap through my letter box. And I thought a check box indicating "don't send me stuff not directly relevant to any accounts I hold with you" meant, well, not sending me stuff that's not directly relevant to any accounts I hold with L&G.



    [4] Or advertising asking me to opt back in. Oh... wait... that's not right is it?

    Granted, the only mail I've had off them since are statements and legally required notices.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @cdosrun said:
    http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html suggests the Email List needs to have proper headers.

    Also-

    If you want to unsubscribe without reporting the message as spam, click "show details" in the top-right corner of the message, then click "Unsubscribe from this sender."

    I don't see "show details". There's a "more" drop-down arrow. No unsubscribe option, even though the several messages I checked had List-Unsubscribe headers and came from a well-known source. If it is still an option, it's rare enough I've never seen it, making it virtually useless.

    Could it be that it's not available in your location? Google frequently rolls out features location-by-location to test-drive them.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @cdosrun said:
    http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html suggests the Email List needs to have proper headers.

    Also-

    If you want to unsubscribe without reporting the message as spam, click "show details" in the top-right corner of the message, then click "Unsubscribe from this sender."

    I don't see "show details". There's a "more" drop-down arrow. No unsubscribe option, even though the several messages I checked had List-Unsubscribe headers and came from a well-known source. If it is still an option, it's rare enough I've never seen it, making it virtually useless.

    It's not my product- I never said it was a well designed UI, or even that the feature worked.

    I spent about two minutes playing with it- Some of my message had the Show Details, some did not.

    I'm now bored with it.



  • I think in most cases it's just easier to create a filter to auto-delete unwanted messages from known senders than unsubscribing to them (specially when every other day some random asshole auto-subscribes me to their newsletters).



  • Googling I found this:

    Conditions where the unsubscribe option is presented include

    The mail is authenticated
    The sender has a good reputation
    The email has a mailto: option in the List-Unsubscribe header
    The recipients marks the message as spam

    Here: http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/07/gmail-offering-unsubscribe-option/

    From 2009, but might still apply...



  • I don't use GMail for the account that has the problem. My work (and other) personal account is Google Apps. I really should migrate.



  • @ASheridan said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @cdosrun said:
    http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html suggests the Email List needs to have proper headers.

    Also-

    If you want to unsubscribe without reporting the message as spam, click "show details" in the top-right corner of the message, then click "Unsubscribe from this sender."

    I don't see "show details". There's a "more" drop-down arrow. No unsubscribe option, even though the several messages I checked had List-Unsubscribe headers and came from a well-known source. If it is still an option, it's rare enough I've never seen it, making it virtually useless.

    Could it be that it's not available in your location? Google frequently rolls out features location-by-location to test-drive them.

    That blog post is from nearly 3 years ago. Somehow I doubt they've got a feature rolled out in a single area for that long.



  • @Renan said:

    I think in most cases it's just easier to create a filter to auto-delete unwanted messages from known senders than unsubscribing to them (specially when every other day some random asshole auto-subscribes me to their newsletters).

    It's better to explicitly mark them as spam though, than to just delete them. That way they can be added to blocklists, so that eventually other people will stop receiving them and the company will effectively be penalized for their spam.



    I always find myself wondering how smart Gmail's "report spam" feature is. If I report spam on a mailing list, will it flag the list itself as a source of spam? If I have a service that sends legitimate messages, but also unwanted ones with no way to opt out, will flagging the unwanted messages also end up blocking the wanted ones?



  • @lolwtf said:

    I always find myself wondering how smart Gmail's "report spam" feature is. If I report spam on a mailing list, will it flag the list itself as a source of spam? If I have a service that sends legitimate messages, but also unwanted ones with no way to opt out, will flagging the unwanted messages also end up blocking the wanted ones?
    My experience is that it needs a bit of training. It (sometimes) initially treats the list as a source of spam, but once I've retrieved a few false positives from the spam folder, it stops marking them all as spam.



  • This process actually isn't that strange, it's a double opt out, as opposed to the double opt in used for registration. The reason it exists is if they allow people to unsubscribe using their email address alone, instead of requiring a sign in. Without an email like this, someone could silently unsubscribe you from newsletters you actually want to receive.



  •  was once subscribed to a mailing list on a "mailing list" server that hosted 100s of mailing list. Mailing list was configured to have "admin" confirm you out (manual remove). Admin was gone for an indefinite period. For one year, the discussions on the mailing list were on the subjet "how can we unsubscribe". Server owner refused to do the work because"it was the job of the mailing list admin" ....



  • @Soviut said:

    This process actually isn't that strange, it's a double opt out, as opposed to the double opt in used for registration. The reason it exists is if they allow people to unsubscribe using their email address alone, instead of requiring a sign in. Without an email like this, someone could silently unsubscribe you from newsletters you actually want to receive.

    That isn't what's happening here. I never even signed up for their spam in the first place, so there was never anything for me to un-subscribe from.

    In this particular instance I had reserved an item through their website, and very diligently checked the checkboxes (yes, both of them) that basically say "No, I don't want any of your SPAM about your crappy products, thanks anyway". Then they sent me this email, as if me already going through the very careful process of checking both checkboxes on the webpage was a mistake.



  • @Vanders said:

    ...and very diligently checked the checkboxes (yes, both of them) that basically say "No, I don't want any of your SPAM about your crappy products, thanks anyway".

    Are you sure the checkboxes didn't say "No, I don't want to miss out on exciting marketing products from Spam Co. and its third-party affiliates"?

    They're tricky that way.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Vanders said:
    ...and very diligently checked the checkboxes (yes, both of them) that basically say "No, I don't want any of your SPAM about your crappy products, thanks anyway".

    Are you sure the checkboxes didn't say "No, I don't want to miss out on exciting marketing products from Spam Co. and its third-party affiliates"?

    They're tricky that way.

    However they were worded I must have read it correctly, hence the email saying "We're sorry you opted out of our SPAM".



    On a related note, Dominos Pizza recently annoyed me by changing their checkboxes from opt-in to opt-out (here in the UK, at least). So now every single time I order a pizza, I have to remember to check both checkboxes, where previously I just had to ignore them. One day it's inevitable that I shall be drunk enough to forget those checkboxes, and they know it.



    It's unfair, praying on us hungry drunks like that.



  • @Vanders said:

    It's unfair, praying on us hungry drunks like that.

    I knew Domino's was founded by a very religious guy, but that's pushing things too far.


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