Yes, I'm angry




  • So I've been spamming "Side Bar WTF" with egregious code for about a week. Astute readers may have picked up a tone of frustration in the posts. It's because these examples are from FREAKING PRODUCT CODE, not some piece of shit app thrown together for your buddy down the hall. I am not happy about trying to make sense of this crap, I'm appalled that it ever saw the light of day, and no doubt because of my lack of tact I'm not exactly Mr. Popular at the office.

    For many, many years I've said that bad programmers can spew out bad code faster than competent people can clean it up. If I were King of the World, there would be a lot more coders with debilitating fractures to their typing hands.



  • I think most of the stuff in this forum is from production code.



  • I think Sutherlands is from this forum.

    Regretfully, history shows, so am I.



  • Is this your first job? Because, um, a lot of the code I've seen in production is crap. I'm usually more surprised when I find good code than bad.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Is this your first job? Because, um, a lot of the code I've seen in production is crap. I'm usually more surprised when I find good code than bad.

    Over 30 years of professional coding, don't ask me how many gigs. But for the record, I said product code -- this is code from a software product. The product companies I've worked for have, by necessity, aspired to higher standards.



  • @rstinejr said:

    But for the record, I said product code -- this is code from a software product. The product companies I've worked for have, by necessity, aspired to higher standards.

    Product, production, what's the difference? Someone is paying for the crap either way, does it really matter who's doing the paying?



  • @Vanders said:

    @rstinejr said:
    But for the record, I said product code -- this is code from a software product. The product companies I've worked for have, by necessity, aspired to higher standards.

    Product, production, what's the difference? Someone is paying for the crap either way, does it really matter who's doing the paying?

    Well, product coders are more arrogant, for one thing. :-)

    Seriously, it's more of a challenge to get code to work reliably on some stranger's computer, instead of on a server down the hall. And it's a shitload easier to apply a fix to your corporate code than to push out fixes to an irate customer base.

    If your point is that all coders should try to write decent code, I agree 100%.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Is this your first job? Because, um, a lot of the code I've seen in production is crap. I'm usually more surprised when I find good code than bad.

    Thank god it's not FOSS, it'd be even worse! Somehow. Apparently.

     



  • @rstinejr said:

    Seriously, it's more of a challenge to get code to work reliably on some stranger's computer, instead of on a server down the hall. And it's a shitload easier to apply a fix to your corporate code than to push out fixes to an irate customer base.

    You're probably right, but I'm going to argue anyway. It's not like HTML, CSS and JS don't run on a variety of client computers with a variety of weird fuck-ups among them. For the code I've had control over, almost all bugs came from client-side problems: weird browser extensions (or outright malware); screwy network proxies; even screwed-up DLLs. And troubleshooting those can be awful because you're trying to figure out why some snippet of Javascript is causing their browser to crash, without having access to the browser and with an irate customer who fumes every time you ask them to "test again" and who requires 15 minutes of coaxing just to get the goddamn browser opened to the correct page.

    And being able to push out hotfixes instantly is almost a curse. People takes bugs far less seriously because "We can just push a fix". Management gets it into their head that because we can push updates every 5 minutes, all day long, we might as well deploy prototype code to production and then "fix it up". Ultimately you long for the day where "testing" was an actual phase of the process and not just a 3-item checklist somebody skims over before each push to production. You start wishing bug fixes required shipping floppy disks to your hundreds of thousands of users...



  • @Zylon said:

    Thank god it's not FOSS, it'd be even worse!

    I was thinking the same thing. Jesus Christ those people are real fuck-ups.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    ...People takes bugs far less seriously because "We can just push a fix"...

    I've said something very similar when saying that code standards for product code are usually higher than those for corporate or government apps, and also when I've made fun of web developers

    But I don't think we have a disagreement so much as different ways to talk about the same subject.



  • @Zylon said:

    Thank god it's not FOSS, it'd be even worse! Somehow. Apparently.
    Making it FOSS doesn't make it worse, unless there are many people who are bad at programming having access to send codes to the repository. But if they are good programmers then FOSS makes it better. However, you cannot tell much either way because the proprietary codes are not shown as much as the free codes, so you are making a comparison to something you don't know. Another reason FOSS may seem worse is due to pre-alpha versions being released and so on. So, in other words, FOSS won't make anything worse (as long as the official repository is properly regulated), although, individual FOSS program can be worse.



  • @zzo38 said:

    @Zylon said:
    Thank god it's not FOSS, it'd be even worse! Somehow. Apparently.
    Making it FOSS doesn't make it worse, unless there are many people who are bad at programming having access to send codes to the repository. But if they are good programmers then FOSS makes it better. However, you cannot tell much either way because the proprietary codes are not shown as much as the free codes, so you are making a comparison to something you don't know. Another reason FOSS may seem worse is due to pre-alpha versions being released and so on. So, in other words, FOSS won't make anything worse (as long as the official repository is properly regulated), although, individual FOSS program can be worse.

    It seems you wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it bites you in the ass



  • He did just succinctly explain why Morb's attitute toward FOSS is idiotic though.

     



  • @Zylon said:

    He did just succinctly explain why Morb's attitute toward FOSS is idiotic though.

    You do realize you're agreeing with zzo38, one of the goofiest trolls on the forums, right? This is the guy who wanted to fork Firefox because it didn't handle gopher appropriately.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Zylon said:

    He did just succinctly explain why Morb's attitute toward FOSS is idiotic though.

    You do realize you're agreeing with zzo38, one of the goofiest trolls on the forums, right? This is the guy who wanted to fork Firefox because it didn't handle gopher appropriately.


    In this case it doesn't matter what he may have said previously because the content of the post concisely debunks your asinine stance on FOSS.

     



  • @esoterik said:

    In this case it doesn't matter what he may have said previously because the content of the post concisely debunks your asinine stance on FOSS.

    Eh...no. Morbs' FOSS rants were purely empirical. He wasn't saying that being FOSS caused anything to be crappy, just that if it's FOSS, it's probably crappy, in his experience. Personally, I would just use the last S of FOSS in that statement, because I don't see much of a discrepancy between non-FOSS quality and FOSS quality, but I'm not going to deny Morbs his chance to rant, except that I'll happily point out when he strays from opinion and starts stating fallacies, or making bogus comparisons.



  • @esoterik said:

    In this case it doesn't matter what he may have said previously because the content of the post concisely debunks your asinine stance on FOSS.

    Put down the crack pipe and think about what you just said: we can't judge a person's opinion based on the fact that everything else they've said is stupid. And his post didn't debunk anything, it was a (false) statement with no proof to back it up. I wouldn't expect someone who thinks FOSS is acceptable to understand complex things like "logic" and "not looking like a drooling retard", but in the interests of preserving what little self-respect you have left, maybe you should avoid posting about things you are too ignorant to understand.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Put down the crack pipe and think about what you just said: we can't judge a person's opinion based on the fact that everything else they've said is stupid. And his post didn't debunk anything, it was a (false) statement with no proof to back it up. I wouldn't expect someone who thinks FOSS is acceptable to understand complex things like "logic" and "not looking like a drooling retard", but in the interests of preserving what little self-respect you have left, maybe you should avoid posting about things you are too ignorant to understand.

    We've replaced Morbs with a Markov chain generator. Let's see if anyone notices!

     



  • @Zylon said:

    We've replaced Morbs with a Markov chain generator. Let's see if anyone notices!

    What?



  • @Zylon said:

    We've replaced Morbs with a Markov chain generator. Let's see if anyone notices!

    Look, I know I hurt your feelings by pointing out what a shitpile FOSS is, but this obsession with me is getting out of hand; you really need to let it go. Yes, you want my attention and approval, I understand that. Lots of people want my attention and approval. The thing is, you're just not important enough to get it.

    I know you've been depressed ever since someone commented on your github project, calling it worthless garbage that looks like it was written by a particularly stupid macaw with fetal alcohol poisoning. I know you keep checking your account stats, hoping someone will take pity and fork you.

    Aren't there church groups in your area who will visit shut-ins like yourself? Maybe you can go all sperglord on them and show them your collection of window managers. At the very least, maybe you can get one of those helper monkeys to clean the food scraps out of your beard, like Richard Stallman has.



  • 90% of Product/Production code is crap...but then again, 90% of EVERYTHING is crap.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    90% of Product/Production code is crap...but then again, 90% of EVERYTHING is crap.

    What about orgasms? Or houses made of solid gold? Or ice cream? The fact is, lots of things have quality levels well above 10%.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    At the very least, maybe you can get one of those helper monkeys to clean the food scraps out of your beard, like Richard Stallman has.
     

    I guess the parrot finally died. I would guess, suicide.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    What about orgasms? Or houses made of solid gold? Or ice cream? The fact is, lots of things have quality levels well above 10%.
    Orgasms? Stupid. Houses made of solid gold? Stupid. Ice cream? Some people might like certain kind of ice cream, instead of a different one.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    What about orgasms?

    I didn't know you cared.

    Oh, wait.. you mean yours? That explains it.



  • @rstinejr said:


    So I've been spamming "Side Bar WTF" with egregious code for about a week. Astute readers may have picked up a tone of frustration in the posts. It's because these examples are from FREAKING PRODUCT CODE, not some piece of shit app thrown together for your buddy down the hall. I am not happy about trying to make sense of this crap, I'm appalled that it ever saw the light of day, and no doubt because of my lack of tact I'm not exactly Mr. Popular at the office.


    I dunno man. So far your posts are only semi-WTYy in my opinion. I've seen worse code in 'product code' for a remote embedded system (sits in remote areas) that has 0 way of updating code remotely. The product needs to be as reliable as a swiss watch but it is closer to a 'Rolax' picked up at a street vendor. We're talking 80% market share of their key market.

    @rstinejr said:

    For many, many years I've said that bad programmers can spew out bad code faster than competent people can clean it up...

    Agreed. And if the bad programmers were there first in place cleanup may be a losing battle especially when management demands new features (e.g. on screen graphing abilities for a system that gets visited in person at most 1/year if it is operating properly) built on top of the highly coupled, barely maintainable wtf of a system. That combined with band-aid bugs fixes and there is no time to actually fix the system. All time is spent bailing water from the boat while at the same time someone who should be bailing as well is affixing a new figurehead with duct tape (because the captain insisted it had to be done now).



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    blablabla
     

    Look, how about finding a new barber/hairdresser whom you can tell that, and perhaps even yell at a bit?

    I'm fine with funny stories, some problem or idea to think about, and a bit of venting now and then ... But to me it seems that you're only here to rant about FOSS. How about showing how great a programmer you are, by posting a nice linkt to a github/sourceforge/tigris/apache/berlios/whatever VCS archive?

    Or, to interpret the german "sprich's in a sackl, ich hör's mir später an" (translated ~ "talk into this bag, I'll listen to it later") in this context, please create your own top-level forum that's clearly labelled as "morb's rants", so that we simple humans are not that overwhelmed with your wisdom.

    Pls, thx, 'bye.



  • @Zylon said:

    We've replaced Morbs with a Markov chain generator. Let's see if anyone notices!
     

    I see what you did there.

    I approve of it muchly.



  • @flop said:

    But to me it seems that you're only here to rant about FOSS.

    I do other things. Sometimes I accidentally derail threads into arguments about meat.

    @flop said:

    How about showing how great a programmer you are, by posting a nice linkt to a github/sourceforge/tigris/apache/berlios/whatever VCS archive?

    So I should justify my distaste for FOSS by linking to an FOSS project of mine? Did that really make sense to you when you wrote it? Besides, I get paid to program, why the hell would I do it for free?



  • @zzo38 said:

    Orgasms? Stupid. Houses made of solid gold? Stupid.

    Wow.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Besides, I get paid to program, why the hell would I do it for free?

    But I am willing to be you have no problem USING software that was written by people willing to do it for free. This is a common hypocrisy - Give it to me for free, but I will contribute nothing (except grief) in return.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Besides, I get paid to program, why the hell would I do it for free?

    But I am willing to be you have no problem USING software that was written by people willing to do it for free. This is a common hypocrisy - Give it to me for free, but I will contribute nothing (except grief) in return.

    A lot of the FOSS software I use in my job was written by people being paid to do it. And as I've pointed out, I'm not particularly thrilled with the result. Also, they're the ones who decided to give it away for free, which is their prerogative. You can't very well get mad when you give someone something for free and they decide to take it without paying you for it (in this case, using my valuable free time to write software for them).

    This is part of the ideology that underlies FOSS which I find so ludicrous "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as possible to use it!" "Okay." "Oh, hey, are you just taking without giving back? Wah! Wahh!!" If Microsoft or Oracle gave away something for free and then later got pissy and self-righteous because people didn't decide to pay them of their own volition people would rightfully laugh at them.

    This is just like the shit wacko religious groups do: give you a bunch of "free" pamphlets about Jesus/Krishna/L. Ron Hubbard and then try to guilt-trip you into giving a donation in exchange for the crap they just shoved into your hand.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Besides, I get paid to program, why the hell would I do it for free?

    But I am willing to be you have no problem USING software that was written by people willing to do it for free. This is a common hypocrisy - Give it to me for free, but I will contribute nothing (except grief) in return.

    A lot of the FOSS software I use in my job was written by people being paid to do it. And as I've pointed out, I'm not particularly thrilled with the result. Also, they're the ones who decided to give it away for free, which is their prerogative. You can't very well get mad when you give someone something for free and they decide to take it without paying you for it (in this case, using my valuable free time to write software for them).

    This is part of the ideology that underlies FOSS which I find so ludicrous "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as possible to use it!" "Okay." "Oh, hey, are you just taking without giving back? Wah! Wahh!!" If Microsoft or Oracle gave away something for free and then later got pissy and self-righteous because people didn't decide to pay them of their own volition people would rightfully laugh at them.

    This is just like the shit wacko religious groups do: give you a bunch of "free" pamphlets about Jesus/Krishna/L. Ron Hubbard and then try to guilt-trip you into giving a donation in exchange for the crap they just shoved into your hand.

    Nobody forces you to use the software, so that negates your argument right there. If you dont like a product, find a different one (possibly fork over some real money). If you cant find a product that does what you want (incuding support policies) then write one. Simple.

    But that is not even the point I was trying to make (which you either didnt get, or are ignoring). What I am talking about has nothing to do (directly) with the people who are giving anything away, it has 100% to do with people who accept "free things". I was brought up to believe that if you are given something of value, it becomes your responsibility to give something of value. Others refer to this as "a balance of Karma".

    I use ALOT of "free" software, I also give at least 500 hours a year back to the technical communities in various forms (some of it as contributions to projects). Balance.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    Nobody forces you to use the software, so that negates your argument right there.

    Um, no it doesn't. I never implied I was forced to use free software. I said that giving something away for free and then complaining because people don't pay you for it is silly, and not just that, it's downright deceptive.

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    If you dont like a product, find a different one (possibly fork over some real money). If you cant find a product that does what you want (incuding support policies) then write one. Simple.

    I don't use free software because I like it, I use it because it is free and I get paid for my expertise with it.

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    What I am talking about has nothing to do (directly) with the people who are giving anything away, it has 100% to do with people who accept "free things". I was brought up to believe that if you are given something of value, it becomes your responsibility to give something of value. Others refer to this as "a balance of Karma".

    And you are aware that other people don't share your religious values, correct? You're a smart guy, so I assume you realize that not everyone feels that "karma" has the same meaning as you, nor even necessarily believes in "karma".

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    I use ALOT of "free" software, I also give at least 500 hours a year back to the technical communities in various forms (some of it as contributions to projects).

    500 hours would be tens of thousands of dollars (actually it may as well be infinity dollars because I have no desire to spend my free time working). You're basically saying that I should spend significantly more money on FOSS than I would on equivalent commercial software.

    Meanwhile, you've completely missed my point: it's absurd to give something away and then tsk-tsk when people don't pay for it. One of the supposed benefits of FOSS is that it's free to use and you're basically adding stipulations after the fact. Either make it free and accept the consequences or make payment a requirement. Don't dishonestly say one thing out of one side of your mouth and the opposite thing out the other.



  • Getting too long to quote, so summary...

    * I have simply been expressing MY view on it, and what upsets ME.  Note the title of the thread is "I'm Angry", not "Morbs is Angry".

    * I do not use the word KArma, you will notice I specificaly said "others", the inclusion was for a point of reference that is largely understood [understanding is different than believing]

    * I have not made ANY mention of the reactions of the people producing the free product. That has no bearing on my point, and what makes ME angry.

    Your statement of "I use it because it is free and I get paid for my expertise with it." and "why should I do it for free" (previously) are inherently self defeating at a global view. If everyone adopted the scond part, then there would be nothing for free, you could not have expertise in something that did not exist, and you would not have a revenue stream from it.

    Morals and Ethics are personal, and I am not trying to convince anyone to change theirs; I am stating mine along with the impact other view have on me. Fortunately I am free in both my professional and personal life to not deal with people who express the sentiments above.


     



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    * I have simply been expressing MY view on it, and what upsets ME.  Note the title of the thread is "I'm Angry", not "Morbs is Angry".

    That's fine. I'm expressing my view of your view.

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    * I have not made ANY mention of the reactions of the people producing the free product. That has no bearing on my point, and what makes ME angry.

    I've heard the same opinion from others.

    @TheCPUWizard said:

    Your statement of "I use it because it is free and I get paid for my expertise with it." and "why should I do it for free" (previously) are inherently self defeating at a global view. If everyone adopted the scond part, then there would be nothing for free, you could not have expertise in something that did not exist, and you would not have a revenue stream from it.

    I'd just have a job working with commercial software. Regardless, as I said before, lots of the software I do use, while free, is funded by large businesses like IBM, RedHat, Oracle, Yahoo and Google who do so because it is profitable for them to do so. So it would still exist even if nobody worked on it for free.



  • @rstinejr said:

    So I've been spamming "Side Bar WTF" with egregious code for about a week. Astute readers may have picked up a tone of frustration in the posts. It's because these examples are from FREAKING PRODUCT CODE, not some piece of shit app thrown together for your buddy down the hall.
    If it isn't from production code then it really isn't a WTF worthy of posting here.

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    This is part of the ideology that underlies FOSS which I find so ludicrous "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as possible to use it!" "Okay." "Oh, hey, are you just taking without giving back? Wah! Wahh!!"

    Oh, morbs, you and your thoroughly intellectually dishonest strawman arguments do make us laugh so!  Did you deliberately omit the missing middle step that would make that chain of logic reasonable in order to misportray it on purpose, or are you really going to pretend you didn't know that the actual argument is:

    "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as
    possible to use it!"

    "Okay.  Wait a minute!  It doesn't work exactly how I thought it would based on my own personal presuppositions and/or has a bug of some kind!  Make it work right now or I'll scream and stamp my little feet!  No I won't give you a bug report, you should just magically know what my problem is and fix it for me!"

    "Oh, hey, are you just taking without
    giving back? Well 'Wah! Wahh!!' me a river, crybaby"

    ?

    See, by leaving out the bit where the recipient of the software is a whiny little bitch with a sense of entitlement based solely on their own unwarranted self-importance, you made it look like the programmers were being unreasonable, but in fact nobody starts to talk about people giving something back until they're starting to expect free support services of the "you do my entire job for me and i'll keep all the wages" kind.  What you presented was not an argument, it was fabricated propaganda.  Why do you expect to be taken seriously?  You're not even trying.



  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @flop said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    blablabla
     

    Look, how about finding a new barber/hairdresser whom you can tell that, and perhaps even yell at a bit?

    Because they're not interested?
    There have been times when I've left the room, made a cup of tea and returned to find you still talking to yourself in the mirror



  • @El_Heffe said:

    If it isn't from production code then it really isn't a WTF worthy of posting here.

    No way. How many of snoofle's posts would that rule out?



  • @boomzilla said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    If it isn't from production code then it really isn't a WTF worthy of posting here.

    No way. How many of snoofle's posts would that rule out?

     

    Seconded. I thought the professional's job would be to avoid getting WTFs into production, ie. catch them while they're still in development?

    Of course, for bought/licensed/rented/stolen/whatever 3rd party code there's not much you can do but silenty cry deep inside ... and, perhaps, hope for karma to catch up.

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    This is just like the shit wacko religious groups do: give you a bunch of "free" pamphlets about Jesus/Krishna/L. Ron Hubbard and then try to guilt-trip you into giving a donation in exchange for the crap they just shoved into your hand.

    The best response (real or imagined) I ever saw to that was in a sketch in the 1980s TV sketch comedy show Absolutely!, where a character called Calum Gilhooly had happily invited a Jehovah's Witness into his house.

    JW (handing CALUM a pamphlet): This is a pamphlet about how Jesus can change your life.
    CALUM (taking the pamphlet, starts reading it eagerly): Oh aye? That's great!
    JW (after a pause while CALUM leafs through the pamphlet): Er … the pamphlet costs a pound.
    CALUM rummages in a drawer and pulls out a rather oily pamphlet of similar size. Then he reaches in his pocket and pulls out a pound.
    CALUM (brightly, handing both the pound coin and the oily pamphlet to the JW): There you are. And this is the Suzuki 90 manual!
    JW (taking the coin and oily pamphlet in some confusion): Er … thank you!
    CALUM (after a beat): Er … the Suzuki manual costs one pound 50.



  • @DaveK said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    This is part of the ideology that underlies FOSS which I find so ludicrous "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as possible to use it!" "Okay." "Oh, hey, are you just taking without giving back? Wah! Wahh!!"

    Oh, morbs, you and your thoroughly intellectually dishonest strawman arguments do make us laugh so!  Did you deliberately omit the missing middle step that would make that chain of logic reasonable in order to misportray it on purpose, or are you really going to pretend you didn't know that the actual argument is:

    "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as
    possible to use it!"

    "Okay.  Wait a minute!  It doesn't work exactly how I thought it would based on my own personal presuppositions and/or has a bug of some kind!  Make it work right now or I'll scream and stamp my little feet!  No I won't give you a bug report, you should just magically know what my problem is and fix it for me!"

    "Oh, hey, are you just taking without
    giving back? Well 'Wah! Wahh!!' me a river, crybaby"

    ?

    See, by leaving out the bit where the recipient of the software is a whiny little bitch with a sense of entitlement based solely on their own unwarranted self-importance, you made it look like the programmers were being unreasonable, but in fact nobody starts to talk about people giving something back until they're starting to expect free support services of the "you do my entire job for me and i'll keep all the wages" kind.  What you presented was not an argument, it was fabricated propaganda.  Why do you expect to be taken seriously?  You're not even trying.


    You are lying and you know it. The argument you claim is a straw man is the exact same argument that TheCPUWizard was making. And he's not nearly the only person I've heard make it. This entire thing started because he said it was hypocritical to use FOSS and not give back. Either you are fucking retarded or..

    Wait, no, that's it.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @DaveK said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    This is part of the ideology that underlies FOSS which I find so ludicrous "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as possible to use it!" "Okay." "Oh, hey, are you just taking without giving back? Wah! Wahh!!"

    Oh, morbs, you and your thoroughly intellectually dishonest strawman arguments do make us laugh so!  Did you deliberately omit the missing middle step that would make that chain of logic reasonable in order to misportray it on purpose, or are you really going to pretend you didn't know that the actual argument is:

    "Hey, everyone take this free software, we want as many people as
    possible to use it!"

    "Okay.  Wait a minute!  It doesn't work exactly how I thought it would based on my own personal presuppositions and/or has a bug of some kind!  Make it work right now or I'll scream and stamp my little feet!  No I won't give you a bug report, you should just magically know what my problem is and fix it for me!"

    "Oh, hey, are you just taking without
    giving back? Well 'Wah! Wahh!!' me a river, crybaby"

    ?

    See, by leaving out the bit where the recipient of the software is a whiny little bitch with a sense of entitlement based solely on their own unwarranted self-importance, you made it look like the programmers were being unreasonable, but in fact nobody starts to talk about people giving something back until they're starting to expect free support services of the "you do my entire job for me and i'll keep all the wages" kind.  What you presented was not an argument, it was fabricated propaganda.  Why do you expect to be taken seriously?  You're not even trying.


    You are lying and you know it. The argument you claim is a straw man is the exact same argument that TheCPUWizard was making. And he's not nearly the only person I've heard make it. This entire thing started because he said it was hypocritical to use FOSS and not give back. Either you are fucking retarded or..

    Wait, no, that's it.

    I think the rest of us are understandably skeptical of a man who has time to post on this site 18 hours per day, but criticizes the efforts people who spend their free time developing software for the good of the general public. Did it ever occur to you that the "troll" you just berated might be the only reason some kid in Africa with a crappy, handout laptop can run OpenGL applications? Or that your ability to look at all of those stupid Powerpoint presentations on your cell phone rests entirely on the efforts of the very same man you just called a "dope-smoking Marxist?" Think about it. Consider that you might be wrong. You won't, I fear... but you should.



  • @bridget99 said:

    I think the rest of us are understandably skeptical of a man who has time to post on this site 18 hours per day, but criticizes the efforts people who spend their free time developing software for the good of the general public. Did it ever occur to you that the "troll" you just berated might be the only reason some kid in Africa with a crappy, handout laptop can run OpenGL applications? Or that your ability to look at all of those stupid Powerpoint presentations on your cell phone rests entirely on the efforts of the very same man you just called a "dope-smoking Marxist?" Think about it. Consider that you might be wrong. You won't, I fear... but you should.
    All he said in this thread is.... if you give it away for free, that doesn't entitle you to get something for it.  And I agree.



  • @bridget99 said:

    Did it ever occur to you that the "troll" you just berated might be the only reason some kid in Africa with a crappy, handout laptop can run OpenGL applications?

    @bridget99 said:

    Or that your ability to look at all of those stupid Powerpoint presentations on your cell phone rests entirely on the efforts of the very same man you just called a "dope-smoking Marxist?"

    I know you suffer from numerous, severe psychological issues, but quotes are usually reserved for things that somebody actually said. Did you hear somebody say these things in your head? What else do the voices tell you?

    I don't care if somebody wants to piss away their time writing crappy software and giving it away for free. What I don't like is somebody shoving a pile of shit into my hand and then expecting payment for it.


    Speaking of: you owe me $370.21 for reading my comments.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Speaking of: you owe me $370.21 for reading my comments.

    Shit, where do we have to send the money?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Speaking of: you owe me $370.21 for reading my comments.

    But I thought ... last night ... that you ...



  • @zelmak said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Speaking of: you owe me $370.21 for reading my comments.

    But I thought ... last night ... that you ...

     

    That was me.

     


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