Used book WTF



  • So I was browsing through Amazon for some sci-fi books, and I found this>

    Wool (the whole series in one book) going for $999.99 (plus $3.99 for shipping). While Amazon itself sells the same book for $19.95.

    Did they cover the book in gold or something?



  • You obviously don't know how some of these resellers work.

    They post a price then scan to see what is out there, weighing against the quantity available and adjust the price.  It doesn't really follow the laws of supply and demand, but rather the laws of "I want to get as much as possible by my own rules" So with this in mind, they will price a book lets say at 20.00, another of these resellers sees that and says ok if he can sell for 20 I can sell for 22.00.  If the other guy isn't being careful his scan will see the 22.00 and push to 25.00.  They go higher on each other until one either pulls thier listing or reaches a limit.  If one pulls the other guy sees it as sold and hikes up again because now they have the only copy.

    No it isn't logical, yes it is greed based, and they really want to be the second guy bought from because they can charge more, not the first guy to get rid of a book they are sitting on.  This gives a seriously artificial inflation.

    The whole process is a WTF in itself.



  • Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Well look at this ebook: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S81RUC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_g351_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04K5E3FXZ7B3HB5D3184&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846



  • @mott555 said:

    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Well look at this ebook: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S81RUC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_g351_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04K5E3FXZ7B3HB5D3184&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    "Pricing information not available"

    I suspect you're seeing something else.



  • @pjt33 said:

    @mott555 said:

    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Well look at this ebook: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S81RUC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_g351_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04K5E3FXZ7B3HB5D3184&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    "Pricing information not available"

    I suspect you're seeing something else.

    Must be an international issue. Here's what I see:
    @Amazon.com said:

    Digital List Price: $123.80 What's this?
    Print List Price: $165.00
    Kindle Price: $104.30 includes free wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet
    You Save: $60.70 (37%)
    ...
           <th class=" " colspan="2">
      <h3 class="tmm_formatColumnHeader">Formats</h3>
      </th>
           <th class=" " colspan="2">
      Amazon Price
      </th>
           <th class="tmm_olpNewColumnHeader  ">
      New from
      </th>
           <th class="tmm_olpUsedColumnHeader  ">
      Used from
      </th>
    
    <tr class="activeRow bucketBorderTop" id="tmm_B004S81RUC">
      <td class="tmm_buttonTD">
         <a href="#" id="kindle_meta_binding_showMoreButton" style="visibility: hidden;">
         <span class="s_expandTMM swSprite"><span>Expand</span></span>
        </a>
        <a href="#" id="kindle_meta_binding_showFewerButton" style="display:none">
         <span class="s_collapseTMM swSprite"><span>Collapse</span></span>
        </a>
      </td>
    
    
    
      <td class="tmm_bookTitle  noLinkDecoration ">
           Kindle Edition
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" price ">
           $104.30
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" noLinkDecoration ">
       &nbsp;
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
        --
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
        --
       </td>
    
    <tr class="bucketBorderTop" id="tmm_0131429388">
      <td class="tmm_buttonTD">
         <a href="#" id="hardcover_meta_binding_showMoreButton" style="">
         <span class="s_expandTMM swSprite"><span>Expand</span></span>
        </a>
        <a href="#" id="hardcover_meta_binding_showFewerButton" style="display:none">
         <span class="s_collapseTMM swSprite"><span>Collapse</span></span>
        </a>
      </td>
    
    
    
      <td class="tmm_bookTitle  noLinkDecoration ">
           <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Operating-Systems-Design-Implementation-Edition/dp/0131429388/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0">Hardcover</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" price ">
           $109.79
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" noLinkDecoration ">
       &nbsp;
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
           <a href="/gp/offer-listing/0131429388/ref=tmm_hrd_new_olp_0?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=new">$109.79</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
           <a href="/gp/offer-listing/0131429388/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=used">$93.00</a>
       </td>
    
    <tr class="bucketBorderTop" id="tmm_0135053765">
      <td class="tmm_buttonTD">
         <a href="#" id="paperback_meta_binding_showMoreButton" style="">
         <span class="s_expandTMM swSprite"><span>Expand</span></span>
        </a>
        <a href="#" id="paperback_meta_binding_showFewerButton" style="display:none">
         <span class="s_collapseTMM swSprite"><span>Collapse</span></span>
        </a>
      </td>
    
    
    
      <td class="tmm_bookTitle  noLinkDecoration ">
           <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Operating-Systems-Design-and-Implementation/dp/0135053765/ref=tmm_pap_title_0">Paperback</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" price ">
        --
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" noLinkDecoration ">
       &nbsp;
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
           <a href="/gp/offer-listing/0135053765/ref=tmm_pap_new_olp_0?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=new">$83.22</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
           <a href="/gp/offer-listing/0135053765/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_0?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=used">$83.47</a>
       </td>
    
    <tr class="bucketBorderTop selectRow popoverRow" id="tmm_B004I1HYPG">
      <td class="tmm_buttonTD">
         <a href="#" id="mass_market_paperback_meta_binding_showMoreButton" style="visibility: hidden;">
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         <span class="s_collapseTMM swSprite"><span>Collapse</span></span>
        </a>
      </td>
    
    
    
      <td class="tmm_bookTitle  noLinkDecoration ">
           <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Operating-Systems-Design-Implementation-Edition/dp/B004I1HYPG/ref=tmm_mmp_title_0">Mass Market Paperback</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" price ">
        --
       </td>
    
    
      <td class=" noLinkDecoration ">
       &nbsp;
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
           <a href="/gp/offer-listing/B004I1HYPG/ref=tmm_mmp_new_olp_0?ie=UTF8&amp;condition=new">$38.85</a>
       </td>
    
    
      <td class="tmm_olpLinks ">
        --
       </td>
    
    See # more hardcovers
    Show fewer hardcovers
    See # more paperbacks
    Show fewer paperbacks


  • @mott555 said:

    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Well look at this ebook: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S81RUC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_g351_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04K5E3FXZ7B3HB5D3184&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    What the fucking fuck, $30 for paper-back? That's a joke, right?



  • Bunch of amateurs.  If you really want to be successful, you have to think big.

     


     And none of that "Free Shipping" nonsense either.



  • @mott555 said:

    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Well look at this ebook: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S81RUC/ref=s9_simh_gw_p351_d0_g351_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=04K5E3FXZ7B3HB5D3184&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

    Oh I agree, It's all marketing greed here and as consumers we have let them get away with it.

    Yes there is overhead in writing, editing and formatting a book, formatting for print is different from formatting for e-book, but then you have costs with printed books you don't have with e-books, printing, shipping, storage etc.  E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.  Gives credance to J. K. Rowlings self publishing her e-books until recently.

    Some writers are moving to self publishing e-books and another small market is springing up for e-book editors and formatters.  Let the big names wake up or fall by the way side if they can't embrace it.



  • @KattMan said:

    E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.

    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.



  • @mott555 said:

    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?

    Yes, and I remember laughing at those people because they don't understand how prices work. They charge what people will pay, not what it costs them to make the book.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @mott555 said:
    Another Amazon WTF: Remember back in the day when everyone was pushing for ebooks since they'll be cheaper since they're easier to distribute and there's no shipping?
    Yes, and I remember laughing at those people because they don't understand how prices work. They charge what people will pay, not what it costs them to make the book.

    Yep, agreed, which is why I said we let them do it.  If we refused to pay it, they would have to lower the price.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @KattMan said:
    E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.
    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.

     

    Nope, I just know it costs less so they can be bought for less.  Remember my first statement, we let them do it so they did.

    And WTF does NTTAWWT mean anyway?



  • @KattMan said:

    Yep, agreed, which is why I said we let them do it.  If we refused to pay it, they would have to lower the price.

    Probably, but that's not what was going to happen. eBooks started out as more of a high-end luxury item so the people buying them weren't price-sensitive. And it's not like you'd save that much off the price of a printed book. If I went to buy the raccoon book and saw that the eBook is $5 less than the printed version, I'd probably be happy with that. After all, I'm intending to spend over $100 on the book anyway. (I don't own an eBook reader and have no desire to. I prefer printed books by far. And I actually do own a copy of the raccoon book, although I bought mine many years ago so that may be a newer edition.)



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @KattMan said:
    Yep, agreed, which is why I said we let them do it.  If we refused to pay it, they would have to lower the price.
    Probably, but that's not what was going to happen. eBooks started out as more of a high-end luxury item so the people buying them weren't price-sensitive. And it's not like you'd save that much off the price of a printed book. If I went to buy the raccoon book and saw that the eBook is $5 less than the printed version, I'd probably be happy with that. After all, I'm intending to spend over $100 on the book anyway. (I don't own an eBook reader and have no desire to. I prefer printed books by far. And I actually do own a copy of the raccoon book, although I bought mine many years ago so that may be a newer edition.)

    Never said how much less the e-book should be, I have no idea what additional overhead percentage there is on the actual printing on paper, storage and shipping is for real books.

    I have heard the pundits talk about e-book piracy and that does at times confuse me, because they should be even more afraid of physical books as they can be paid for once and then traded around freely to an untold number of people until the book falls apart with no way to track that.  This is the analoge version of the digital e-book piracy argument, though with e-books they can all read it at the same time, real books, it is one after the other.



  • @KattMan said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @KattMan said:
    E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.

    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.

    Nope, I just know it costs less so they can be bought for less.  Remember my first statement, we let them do it so they did.

    Yes, but then you use a pejorative term for them applying good business sense by charging a price that the market is willing to pay. The problem isn't that you would like prices to be closer to their marginal costs, but that you apply a value judgment to others which is equally applicable to you.

    @KattMan said:

    And WTF does NTTAWWT mean anyway?

    Not That There's Anything Wrong With That. Being a "greedy bastard" just means that you're a human being*. Magical thinking about creating a system to subvert human nature at such a basic level just makes you look stupid, which is the typical logical conclusion of arguments that start with condemning someone as a "greedy bastard."

    * Preemptive strike against pedantic dickweedery: At least as far as using the market to set prices is concerned.



  • Well yes, I am a gredy bastard, when it comes to my own things.

    Although from an economics standpoint, I do understand it and have tried explaining others with a very simplified example of supply-demand-pricepoint which I call 3-4-5 economics.

    At $3 you sell 5 items.

    At $4 you sell 4 items.

    At $5 you sell 3 items.

    The maximized profit is at $4 not 3 or 5.  The trick is finding where that sweet spot is and that takes trial and error, market analysis and faith that you made the right choice because constantly changing the price while finding it just pisses off the market and your sales disappear regardless.



  • I find it interesting that most of what I see on the consumer end is "Businesses are greedy and charge way too much." But then what I see in the business end at work is "Hey, we charge what people will pay." It seems bad from one perspective, but then seems pretty good when your paycheck depends on it.



  • @KattMan said:

    This is the analoge version of the digital e-book piracy argument, though with e-books they can all read it at the same time, real books, it is one after the other.

    WTF? No, it isn't. A pirated ebook can be shared with as many people who want it, without any consequences to the person who shared it. A closer analog would be someone printing millions of somebody else's paper book and then distributing them to everyone who wants one, globally. Oh and the cost of printing and distribution is nothing. Seriously, do you people think before you open your goddamn mouths? That retarded shit might fly on Slashdot but it won't here.



  • @mott555 said:

    I find it interesting that most of what I see on the consumer end is "Businesses are greedy and charge way too much." But then what I see in the business end at work is "Hey, we charge what people will pay." It seems bad from one perspective, but then seems pretty good when your paycheck depends on it.

    Consumers are as greedy as businesses, if not more. They want the most possible for anything they sell and want to pay as little as possible for the things they buy. However, consumers are quite happy to lie, cheat and steal to get what they want (piracy anyone?) whereas only the worst businesses behave that way. Some consumers also perpetually play the victim card, exploiting people's emotions to dominate business through mob rule.

    If I had to interact with a professional business or the majority of individual consumers I know which I'm choosing. What's hilarious is that most people feel the same way; they're going to trust something bought at Wal-Mart more than something bought at a yard sale, but then they pretend Wal-Mart is untrustworthy and that the "little guy" is good.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @KattMan said:

    a very simplified example of supply-demand-pricepoint which I call 3-4-5 economics.

    At $3 you sell 5 items.

    At $4 you sell 4 items.

    At $5 you sell 3 items.

    Not unlike the Laffer Curve then?


  • @Renan said:

    So I was browsing through Amazon for some sci-fi books
    I'm going to sidestep this entire thread and recommend this.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @KattMan said:
    E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.

    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.

    What was that thing that they teach you in Neoclassical Economics 101? Oh yeah, that its premises rely on certain assumptions, the main one being that there are an infinite number of buyers and sellers of a uniform good in the market. So let's see: are there an infinite number of sellers of a given proprietary ebook? No. Are there even enough sellers that we could call the market for this ebook "perfect competition" without bursting out in laughter? No. So how many sellers are there then? Why, only a couple, often only one. That's an oligopoly (or monopoly in the latter case), which allows sellers to charge above what the equilibrium price would be under perfect competition, and thus to extract a rent from consumers. That means that the arguments you're making rest on faulty premises, and are thus flawed. In other words:

    1. Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that
    you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard.

    2. Seriously, do you people think before you open your goddamn mouths? That retarded shit might fly at the American Enterprise Institute but it won't here.

    								    </p>


  • @fschmidt said:

    2. Seriously, do you people think before you open your goddamn mouths? That retarded shit might fly at the American Enterprise Institute but it won't here.

    Wow, there are a lot of shit-for-brains on the forums lately.



  • @fschmidt said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @KattMan said:
    E-books should be less, the fact they are not and sometimes even more proves that the publishers are just greedy bastards.

    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.

    What was that thing that they teach you in Neoclassical Economics 101? Oh yeah, that its premises rely on certain assumptions, the main one being that there are an infinite number of buyers and sellers of a uniform good in the market. So let's see: are there an infinite number of sellers of a given proprietary ebook? No. Are there even enough sellers that we could call the market for this ebook "perfect competition" without bursting out in laughter? No. So how many sellers are there then? Why, only a couple, often only one. That's an oligopoly (or monopoly in the latter case), which allows sellers to charge above what the equilibrium price would be under perfect competition, and thus to extract a rent from consumers. That means that the arguments you're making rest on faulty premises, and are thus flawed. In other words:

    1. Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that
    you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard.

    2. Seriously, do you people think before you open your goddamn mouths? That retarded shit might fly at the American Enterprise Institute but it won't here.

    								    </p></blockquote>
    

    Agreement from a good essay on the topic:

    Because I can't loan them (with rare exceptions), because I can't resell them, because I can't buy a cheaper used copy, because I'm only licensed to read them at all on "supported" readers under whatever terms the publishers will allow me to, an eBook simply has less utility and value to me. Right now, eBooks are far less flexible than physical books and therefore a worse value. Yet they are far cheaper to produce and sell for everyone involved. The pricing absolutely has to reflect this. If I can get a used copy of a book for less than the eBook, no sale. If I can get a new copy of a book for less than the eBook, no sale and screw you.



  • And one reason the free market has a hard time sorting out ebook prices is that it relies on consumers having accurate pricing data. Most people research the cost of the ereader and the cost of the books they can get within its 'walled garden' are an afterthought.



  • @cmccormick said:

    And one reason the free market has a hard time sorting out ebook prices is that it relies on consumers having accurate pricing data. Most people research the cost of the ereader and the cost of the books they can get within its 'walled garden' are an afterthought.

    Well, no, the "problem" is that copyrighted materials are granted a government monopoly so there's little price competition. Really, I could give two shits: if you don't want to buy the ebook, don't buy it.



  • @cmccormick said:

    Because I can't loan them (with rare exceptions), because I can't resell them, because I can't buy a cheaper used copy, because I'm only licensed to read them at all on "supported" readers under whatever terms the publishers will allow me to, an eBook simply has less utility and value to me. Right now, eBooks are far less flexible than physical books and therefore a worse value. Yet they are far cheaper to produce and sell for everyone involved.

    You're ignoring all of the value ebooks add: instant delivery, online backup, ability to take hundreds of books in your pocket.

    @cmccormick said:

    The pricing absolutely has to reflect this.

    This demonstrates that you don't understand pricing or value. Plenty of people are willing to pay as-much-or-more for ebooks. Prices aren't set to suit you, they're set to benefit the producer. shrug Personally, I really don't care for ebooks, but it has nothing to do with prices. I just don't like reading off of those things. I'm also reluctant to buy into a system of vendor lock-in. If I could get an open format with sensible DRM that would let me access them on my computer, phone and ereader, as well as the ability to loan to friends and family, I'd be more likely to buy.



  • @fschmidt said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Fuck you and your retarded understanding of economics. The fact that you're bitching about this is just proof that you're a greedy bastard. NTTAWWT.

    What was that thing that they teach you in Neoclassical Economics 101?

    Sweet. A new kook for the forum!

    @fschmidt said:

    Seriously, do you people think before you open your goddamn mouths? That retarded shit might fly at the American Enterprise Institute but it won't here.

    Firstly, unlike you, apparently, I don't need to say the words out loud as I type. I'm sorry you have so much angst about your daddy and his evil imperialist ways, but your totalitarian centralized bullshit won't fly...anywhere!



  • @boomzilla said:

    Sweet. A new kook for the forum!
     

    I'm thinking about installing a rule where you can't use swear words until your post count is, say, 50.

    Because you have to keep the little guys down, of course.

    And sell them your overpriced ebooks.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    You're ignoring all of the value ebooks add: instant delivery, online backup, ability to take hundreds of books in your pocket.
     

    You can do all those things with a digital picture of shit, so it's fairly obvious that those items aren't very significant in adding value.

    The value should come form the content (i.e. what people are willing to pay or the author think people should pay), plus compensation for the product's manufacturing.

    What remains is the question of whether it's really hard to properly digitize a book. Since books these days are all produced digitally, producing an ebook format should be as simple as choosing Export > PDF from Indesign's menu. I am not entirely sure on that one, though. There may be additional pitfalls.

    So on the face of it, ebooks should really be cheaper than regular books, without a loss in quality.

     



  • @dhromed said:

    You can do all those things with a digital picture of shit, so it's fairly obvious that those items aren't very significant in adding value.

    What? I don't understand what you mean..

    @dhromed said:

    So on the face of it, ebooks should really be cheaper than regular books, without a loss in quality.

    Depending on the product and market, pricing may or may not be closely tied to costs. ebooks are a "luxury" item. People who have bought an ereader have already told the book manufacturers "I'm willing to pay a whole lot for ebooks" whether they enjoy doing so or not.

    Now, as ebooks become mainstream, the book companies may start lowering prices to drive up volume, but I kind of doubt it. If you're willing to pay $100 for a hardback book they know you're willing to pay $100 for an ebook, too.



  • @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    You're ignoring all of the value ebooks add: instant delivery, online backup, ability to take hundreds of books in your pocket.
     

    You can do all those things with a digital picture of shit, so it's fairly obvious that those items aren't very significant in adding value.

    The value should come form the content (i.e. what people are willing to pay or the author think people should pay), plus compensation for the product's manufacturing.

    What remains is the question of whether it's really hard to properly digitize a book. Since books these days are all produced digitally, producing an ebook format should be as simple as choosing Export > PDF from Indesign's menu. I am not entirely sure on that one, though. There may be additional pitfalls.

    So on the face of it, ebooks should really be cheaper than regular books, without a loss in quality.

     

     

     

    The ebook publishers' argument is that the cost to actually make a physical book are only like $1 or so... They still have to pay the author, editors, marketers, and myriad other staff required to make the book.  At least that's their argument...

    I'd be perfectly happy if they did what record labels do these days when you buy an LP... They give you a free digital download so you don't have to buy it once.  Books should be the same.  If you spend $30 on a physical copy of a book, you've already bought the content, so why not throw in the digital version so you don't have to buy it twice?



  • @dhromed said:

    I'm thinking about installing a rule where you can't use swear words until your post count is, say, 50.

    Make it 5,000 and I'm on-board.



  • @ShatteredArm said:

    I'd be perfectly happy if they did what record labels do these days when you buy an LP... They give you a free digital download so you don't have to buy it once.  Books should be the same.  If you spend $30 on a physical copy of a book, you've already bought the content, so why not throw in the digital version so you don't have to buy it twice?

    In the case of a CD (I presume that's the format of the LP), it's super easy to digitize. Books are not. If they can get you do download their copy, I suppose they could watermark it somehow or put some other DRM on it (do they?). There's no easy way to digitize a book, so why would they? Now, some publisher might start it to get a competitive edge, which might or might not force others to follow. As the ebook format becomes more popular, this might make sense. I have no idea about the relative market sizes of print and electronic format books.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    I'd be perfectly happy if they did what record labels do these days when you buy an LP... They give you a free digital download so you don't have to buy it once.  Books should be the same.  If you spend $30 on a physical copy of a book, you've already bought the content, so why not throw in the digital version so you don't have to buy it twice?

    In the case of a CD (I presume that's the format of the LP), it's super easy to digitize. Books are not. If they can get you do download their copy, I suppose they could watermark it somehow or put some other DRM on it (do they?). There's no easy way to digitize a book, so why would they? Now, some publisher might start it to get a competitive edge, which might or might not force others to follow. As the ebook format becomes more popular, this might make sense. I have no idea about the relative market sizes of print and electronic format books.

     

    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.



  • @ShatteredArm said:

    @boomzilla said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    I'd be perfectly happy if they did what record labels do these days when you buy an LP... They give you a free digital download so you don't have to buy it once.  Books should be the same.  If you spend $30 on a physical copy of a book, you've already bought the content, so why not throw in the digital version so you don't have to buy it twice?

    In the case of a CD (I presume that's the format of the LP), it's super easy to digitize. Books are not. If they can get you do download their copy, I suppose they could watermark it somehow or put some other DRM on it (do they?). There's no easy way to digitize a book, so why would they? Now, some publisher might start it to get a competitive edge, which might or might not force others to follow. As the ebook format becomes more popular, this might make sense. I have no idea about the relative market sizes of print and electronic format books.

     

    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.

    I wish they did this with wax cylinders.. D:



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.

    I wish they did this with wax cylinders.. D:

     

    It's not quite what you asked for, but I hope you can appreciate this.

     



  • @da Doctah said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.

    I wish they did this with wax cylinders.. D:

     

    It's not quite what you asked for, but I hope you can appreciate this.

    I was being facetious. If it's hip to listen to obsolete music formats, then wax cylinders are certainly the hippest.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @da Doctah said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.

    I wish they did this with wax cylinders.. D:

     

    It's not quite what you asked for, but I hope you can appreciate this.

    I was being facetious. If it's hip to listen to obsolete music formats, then wax cylinders are certainly the hippest.

    I am so disappointed. Clearly, the hippest way is to have your own orchestra on call to perform the music on demand. No self respecting 1%-er would accept any less.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @da Doctah said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @ShatteredArm said:
    LP is the format of the LP.  They give you a digital download precisely because there's no easy way to digitize an LP, and have the dynamic range preserved intact.

    I wish they did this with wax cylinders.. D:

     

    It's not quite what you asked for, but I hope you can appreciate this.

    I was being facetious. If it's hip to listen to obsolete music formats, then wax cylinders are certainly the hippest.

     

    I'm not sure a format that has benefits that can't be replicated in CDs (i.e., more dynamic range) can be considered obsolete.  Sure, maybe when lossless blu-ray becomes the standard medium for music, LPs will become obsolete, but until then, there are reasons to buy them other than just being hip.

    There's a reason people still buy records, but they don't buy casettes or eight tracks.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @dhromed said:
    I'm thinking about installing a rule where you can't use swear words until your post count is, say, 50.

    Make it 5,000 and I'm on-board.

     

    That's a stupid idea. I'm going to call you a fucking asshole about, say, 4,400 times-- then, and only then, may I think about agreeing with you.



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    That's a stupid idea.

    You're a stupid idea.

    @Lorne Kates said:

    I'm going to call you a fucking asshole about, say, 4,400 times-- then, and only then, may I think about agreeing with you.

    So.. just like everyone else who argues with me on this site.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I was being facetious. If it's hip to listen to obsolete music formats, then wax cylinders are certainly the hippest.
    Sorry to hear you were being facetious.  I'd much rather listen to the music of the early 20th century than of the early 21st, format notwithstanding.  (Hip, in these circles, means you notice a familiar voice among the unnamed "male quartette" backing Ada Jones.)



  • @ShatteredArm said:

    I'm not sure a format that has benefits that can't be replicated in CDs (i.e., more dynamic range) can be considered obsolete.
     

    CD has more potential dynamic range and less distortion than LP. Please do not perpetuate this vinyl nonsense.

    @ShatteredArm said:

    there are reasons to buy them other than just being hip.

    I have no problems with this. Valid reasons are:

    • the feeling of a large object and the mechanism of playback. Yes, it's more intimate and if that's you thing I respect that. 
    • the master on vinyl may, in fact, be better than the CD counterpart. This has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of CD, which are decidedly superior to vinyl, but with badly informed audio engineers.
    • and whatever, being hip is a valid reason. I don't care. Do what you want. I prefer being practical, and I think vinyl is a nuisance.

    @ShatteredArm said:

    Sure, maybe when lossless blu-ray becomes the standard medium for music, LPs will become obsolete


    Anything greater than 16-bit/44.1KHz confers dubious or completely inadible increases in quality. There's a reason blue-ray hasn't overtaken the market yet. Same story for SACD.

     

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @dhromed said:
    You can do all those things with a digital picture of shit, so it's fairly obvious that those items aren't very significant in adding value.

    What? I don't understand what you mean..

     

    My communication was lacking.

    Point is that some of those books are utter shit OR offer reduced UX in their e-formats, thus all those things you mentioned that "add value" add really very little value if the product that they wrap is shitty or inferior.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    epending on the product and market, pricing may or may not be closely tied to costs. ebooks are a "luxury" item

    I realize that, which is why I said "The value should come form the content (i.e. what people are willing to pay or the author think people should pay)". I think that covered my ass adequately.

    The value of an ebook, in that sense, is exactly the same as a real book. Thus what's left is the cost of production, which, I must repeat myself, on the face of it is much, much less than a physical book.

    Better insight into book production from the idea in the writer's head up to the emoshinal feelz in a reader's mind would allow me to better estimate this cost, obviously.

     

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Lorne Kates said:
    That's a stupid idea.

    You're a stupid idea.

     

    Your mom was a stupid idea.

    Your father's stupid idea, to be exact.



  • @dhromed said:

    Anything greater than 16-bit/44.1KHz confers dubious or completely inadible increases in quality. There's a reason blue-ray hasn't overtaken the market yet. Same story for SACD.

    Bullshit. That just means you aren't buying the right cables.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @dhromed said:
    Anything greater than 16-bit/44.1KHz confers dubious or completely inadible increases in quality. There's a reason blue-ray hasn't overtaken the market yet. Same story for SACD.

    Bullshit. That just means you aren't buying the right cables.

     

    Excuse me, but my cables are double-twisted, silver-sheathed, microquantized hypersolidified beasts of a quarter-inch thick at a mere $599.99 per meter (discount price for trusted customers!), and they're installed with the electro-flow arrows pointing in the right direction. Obviously they're not the bottleneck.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dhromed said:

    Excuse me, but my cables are double-twisted, silver-sheathed, microquantized hypersolidified beasts of a quarter-inch thick at a mere $599.99 per meter (discount price for trusted customers!), and they're installed with the electro-flow arrows pointing in the right direction. Obviously they're not the bottleneck.
    Perhaps you should try Denon cables instead. I realise they may be a tad more expensive however...



  • @dhromed said:

    Excuse me, but my cables are double-twisted, silver-sheathed, microquantized hypersolidified beasts of a quarter-inch thick at a mere $599.99 per meter (discount price for trusted customers!), and they're installed with the electro-flow arrows pointing in the right direction. Obviously they're not the bottleneck.

    Ah, then you probably haven't optimized the layout of your listening room. Make sure you supercool your windows, too.


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