Tales from some interviews



  • I haven't had many jobs and haven't had many interviews, when I do I often don't get far because they overlook my technical competency due to my wonderful (lack off) personality. I'm a geek, a nerd, WTF do they expect.

    However I was reading a post on here just now about a strange interview and thought I'd share a couple of my own.

     

    My first job:

    It didn't start out well because at the time I was wardialling a block of 10'000 numbers when the telephone rang, speaking over my angry modem I did manage to arrange an interview.

    When I turned up it did strike me as odd that most of the building seemed to be constructed of timber offcuts, cardboard and packing tape.. but I knew no better, it was a small company I didn't expect towers of shining glass to greet me.

    The interview itself was not unusual, what was unusual was their insistence that I sign a non disclosure and non competition agreement before even getting to the interview, you might think this is a wise precaution but this was a tiny computer shop who knocked together cheap PC's using off the shelf parts. They was no information worth disclosing to anyone and anyway, the agreement wasn't worth the toilet paper it was wiped on. It was badly worded, unenforceable and in some places actually illegal, I later discovered that frankly it meant as much as a software license agreement, the company didn't have to means to take action even if I violated there dumb agreement.

    On one occasion when an ex employee was doing the company for wrongfully firing him, he hired a real lawyer who asked "Who have WTF Computers got?" - "Firstname Lastname" - "Oh Firstname Lastname, he owes me money!", Mr Lastname was apparently well known for pretending to be a lawyer despite lacking any qualifications or experience and didn't exactly have a shining reputation for being able to pay his bills.

     

    My second job:

    It was a larger organisation, WTF University. Being a University you already know the kind of academic over complication and being large, bureaucratic hoop jumping through involved.

    I had applied for the job three or four months earlier, not having heard anything back I assumed I had failed and simply been forgotten about, I was rather surprised when I was invited for an interview for a job I couldn't remember applying for and had to dig through my files to find it.

    I neatly folded my suit and cycled to the interview with plenty of time to spare, giving me a chance to freshen up and dress smart in the gents.

    The first part of my interview was pretty standard stuff, they seemed very interested in work I had on a VB6 call logging/inventory system for WTF Computers, I later discovered this was one of the main reasons I was hired, they had a half completed VB6 based inventory system they wanted finishing.

    The second part of the interview was a written test, mostly multiple choice and incredibly easy like "Name two TCP/IP services and the ports normally assigned to them."

    One of them was a question about accessing fileshares across various platforms, Apple, Linux, Windows, Solaris, they had a good mix of hardware here. I was asked to highlight which one of the options shown was not possible, they were all possible.

    After the interview I had a tour of the department and was told I did really well on the test apart from that question I missed, apparently its not possible to access files shared from Solaris on a Windows box. I suggested something like "Doesn't services for Unix support NFS shares? And couldn't you compile something like Samba for Solaris?"

    Anyway, I got the job, within my first week the IT manager in charge of all the old Sun machines was rolling out his amazing new system while I was working on this inventory. Apparently he'd had this amazing idea to offer research groups storage space on his Suns using this revolutionary new system that allowed them to share folders to Windows boxes.

    Fortunately the offer arrived just in time to save me from another interview, I had applied for an IT job a large well known multi-national firm who had an office in my home town. I had already arranged an interview, I was keeping my options open. The day after I got the offer from WTF U they called to confirm that I'd be coming in for my interview and I wouldn't have any trouble giving consent for the medical and substance test. Medical? Substance test? Apparently it was normal procedure for them to regularly drug test all their employees and I would having undergo this procedure before they would even considering thinking about talking to me.

    I declined, I had already found employment elsewhere. How do they expect to hold onto talent with a policy like that, have they not heard of Ballmer's Peak?

     

    The Stadium:

    After leaving WTF U for reasons too lengthy to go into here (that would be a book, not a forum post) I got an interview with another department within another University doing pretty much the same job, I thought I couldn't loose, they can't find someone who is a better fit for this job. It was a short tube journey from where I was staying in London, the money was good, I knew the academic environment and its unique IT challenges.

    When I arrived I thought O..M..G, the building was an almost an exact clone of the one I worked in at WTF U!

    They started with a written exam which was obviously a psych test disguised as a written exam, there were a large number of questions and only ten minutes allotted to complete it, there was no way anyone could complete them all so I scanned through and picked off the easy ones before going back and working on a couple of tougher ones I thought I stood a chance with.

    The secretary came in and told me the time was up, I explained it was impossible to complete the test in the given time "Yeah everyone said that." she revealed.

    Then more waiting before my actual interview, uber OMG++ XP, tm, all rights reserved, now in 3D.. the interview panel appear to be comprised of parallel universe versions of the exact same team I had worked with at WTF U. The skinny bald IT manager, the fat troll with the stupid glasses as his second in command, the head of department.. the 'token academic because policy says we have to get two academics on every interview' guy dressed straight out of the seventies.

    After answering their technical questions 'fat troll with stupid glasses' took me on a tour of the department where I met, 'older homosexual guy who sits in front of his Sun workstation all day pretending to do highly complex Unixy things mere mortals could not understand whilst actually running his own business via email but no-one dares fire him even though he gets paid three times what they are offering you and does fuck all because he has friends in high places' ...breath... we had one of those at WTF U too.

    So the tour continued, pretty standard stuff, showed me their student computer labs, I made comments on issues about hardware and network security I had faced in my last job, commented that we use the same supplier of security equipment and I know the people who work there. Generally tried to hint that I can do this job with my eyes closed and have been for years, I totally understand the technical challenges of this environment.

    Ahh a research lab, I imagine this piece of equipment is drive my a knackered old DOS box.. yes it is how did you know.. oh we had one similar, I'm used to that, I've been working on converting these systems whose software cannot be upgraded to virtual machines, I connect the serial ports over ethernet to the host OS and the virtual DOS box doesn't know the difference, it means you can retire these failing 486 weak points. 'Another point' I thought.

    The tour continued to a conference room, video cameras, speakerphones, I commented on how they used a model I've supported previously...

    "Oooh here you'll love this!" said the troll. He seemed very enthusiastic, I thought he must have a geek treat for me, some old obscure bit of kit or perhaps some shiney new cutting edge toy. He invited me over to the window and pointed "Look!"

    I looked up, down, in a few other directions, all I could see outside the window was an enormous building site full of concrete and cranes, a half constructed stadium. I couldn't see what had caused such enthusiam.

    "What am I looking for?" I asked, aware that I was either missing something incredibly obvious or talking to a madman.

    "They are building a stadium!" he said, my look must have given away my puzzled, slightly scared look. Was this man a simpleton? Did he have a fetish for bulldozers? "Its for THE OLYMPICS." cue smug smile. "I bet you never saw anything like that up there in PREVIOUSCITY."

    It all became clear. As a yokel from up t'north I was expected to react in awe at the wonder of his superior cockney construction site. I had no intention of doing so.

    A sarcastic comeback crossed my mind, I kept it to myself, unfortunately my face betrayed my true feelings.

    My tour ended abruptly, so did my chances of a job there.

     

    Full time self employed:

    Another very 'Londony' opportunity arose when I applied for a job as a computer tech, fixing PC's I could do that, I could do that under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms (well I thought I could, the one time I tried there were a few incidents with power supplies, thats another WTF entirely).

    I dressed up, turned up for my interview and got down to it, it was a small operation run out of a tiny rented office with three desks in it. Apparently he job involved going out onsite to customers, it didn't say anything about that in the ad. I pointed out I might not be right for this job, I don't drive. Apparently that was okay because the clients where all very local, this guy basically provides IT services to to a number of local small business who didn't have enough work to justify having their own IT people in house. Apparently this included administering all their systems, installing and manage their servers, their desktops, their VPN's and internet connectivity.. this wasn't in the ad either. Fine, I can do all that but I thought this would just be a PC repair job according to the ad and the salary offered.

    Oh, the salary was correct you say? "Well it will keep me going until something better turns up." I thought "Something to put on my CV, show willing, keep my hand in etc.." Oh its not actually on a salary, its paid by the hour you say.. that's fine.. and it might be part time you say? Well that's actually quite convenient because I have other considerations, part time would be good.. As and when jobs need doing you say? Thing is I live some distance away and as I said I don't have my own transport, I can't really do call outs on short notice.

    And so it went on, despite obviously not being suited for the job he still seemed keen to have me on board. He was adamant that I could easily handle the job using nothing but an Oyster card, I just had to hop on a train when the call came in, response time wasn't that much of an issue. So I enquired, if I will be travelling as part of the job will I be paid extra to cover that?

    It soon became obvious why he was so keen to get me on board and why two of the three desks in his office were vacant, only a complete idiot would do this job, the terms and conditions where thus:

    I wouldn't actually have a job, technically I'd be self employed and I'd have to bill him for any hours, hope he paid and sort out my own tax.

    This time would be billable at near minimum wage and the Zone 1 travel expense I'd incur would have to come out of my own pocket. I worked out the hours I'd have to be putting in to cover the cost of a travel card and how long the average job would have to be to profitable on a PAYG fare and worked out I'd be lucky to break even on this insane deal.

    It seems the plan for his soon to be bankrupt business must have been something like this: "Sell IT services to local business, 'hire' real IT people to do the work but not bother with all that difficult government paperwork and accounts, get them to bill me, then bill the customers with a huge markup."

    I declined his offer and pointed out, "If I wanted to be a freelance IT technician for these businesses, I could work for them directly, bill them at a higher rate and still undercut you."

     

    Injection rejection:

    The job was with a bunch of lawyers specialising in conveyancing , it wasn't perfect it was miles away but I was prepared to consider relocation. They needed someone to take care of there IT and sure up their flakey website.

    I attended the interview, it was nothing unusual, bit of tech, bit of getting to know you. Afterwards I asked when I could expect to hear if I'd got the job.

    "Oh you won't hear if you've got the job, just if you've made it through to the next round of interviews."

    Apparently it was a hideous multi layered selection process but I could cope with that. After the interview I went home and decided to take a look at their website, I discovered it was very vulnerable to SQL injection and the IIS webserver was helpfully configured with all the debug in the error messages left on, passwords where stored in the database as plaintext. I called up some personal information about their clients, some financial information and took screenshots. I sent the recruiter a detailed explanation of the vulnerability, the extent of the damage it could cause (i.e. depending on configuration and permissions, a DROP DATABASE could be disastrous) and explained how this could be fixed and what I would recommend as future best practices if I got the job.

    I got a thank you, I didn't get through to the next round of interviews. Apparently they don't want "the kind of people who break into websites" working on stopping people from breaking into their website.




  • I can see their point on that last one; they don't understand the difference between breaking in and simply reading and understanding the gaping holes they put out there.

    The way to handle that is to play lawyer. Never show your cards. Ask questions (to which you already know the answer) and lead them to "discover" the vulnerabilities. THEN you offer suggestions on how you'd fix it for them -- you come off like an Ace.

     



  • Has any of these people heard the phrase: "I am glad (s)he is on our side."

    If you find someone who demonstrates skill at breaking your stuff and can prevent others from doing likewise, dont you want them on your side rather than a "...guy who sits in front of his Sun workstation all day pretending to do highly complex Unixy things mere mortals could not understand whilst actually running his own business via email but no-one dares fire him even though he gets paid three times what they are offering you ..."?



  •  I do feel the need to point out that (at least here in the States) drug testing, especially in the public sector, is hardly rare.  IMO, drug testing is part of any good employers practices when bringing someone new on board, not to mention random screens through the existing employees.  Not like they're invading your privacy or something, if I was employing people, I'd want to know they weren't involved in any drug related shit.



  • @Master Chief said:

     I do feel the need to point out that (at least here in the States) drug testing, especially in the public sector, is hardly rare.  IMO, drug testing is part of any good employers practices when bringing someone new on board, not to mention random screens through the existing employees.  Not like they're invading your privacy or something, if I was employing people, I'd want to know they weren't involved in any drug related shit.

     

    Not sure if trolling...  :|

     



  • @Master Chief said:

    I do feel the need to point out that (at least here in the States) drug testing, especially in the public sector, is hardly rare.

    I feel the need to point out that if you tried to enforce that in Europe, you would probably face pretty strong objections to it.

    @Master Chief said:

    if I was employing people, I'd want to know they weren't involved in any drug related shit.

    Heh … at my so-called "job" (no, I'm not a professional programmer) I get the impression more people use drugs than don't, and they seem to sneak outside to smoke joints just short of all the time … This afternoon someone even rolled one about a meter away from me while I was sitting at my desk.



  • I wouldn't hire you.  You misspelled "lose" as "loose".

     



  •  In my last job we had a tradition called the 'herbal lunch', similar to the 'liquid lunch' the alcoholics enjoyed.

    Creative people have always enjoyed substances in one description or another, perhaps to enhance their muse, or perhaps as a form of self medication to mediate themselves onto the right side of the often described line between genius and madness, who knows.

    I've spent most of my career stoned, some of it under the influence of psychedlic substances, quite a bit of it drunk. I would say the reason I do this is personal problems rather than any noble and philosphical sounding 'expansion of the mind' but I've always thought what matters is... I turn up when I'm meant to, I do the jobs I'm supposed to do, when required I can be creative, imaginative, experamentative, scientific in my approach to a problem as the situation demands. I still approach those problems and still solve them.

    To judge a person by their choice of high is just a social thing, an arbitrary decision based on prejudice that bears no relation to the facts.

    I totally understand and agree with the idea of drug testing people when neccesary, in fact right now I work in breath alcohol, I make breathlysers. We sell them to railroads, mines, police forces and they get used to test people who if drunk on the job and seriously cock something up could cause disaster, or if drunk in their cars could run down your children.

    Right now I'm drunk, or well on the way to being. I'll wake up tomorrow with a hangover, I'll still get to work on time, do my job and if the job I'm currently doing works out, reduce the amount of error in one of our products to half of what it is now through improved analytical software.

    I haven't been on a forum for a long time and I do realise, by bringing up philosophical (religous) and poltical ideas I'm breaking the cardinal rules of mainting a polite balance and simply supplying troll ammo so if this causes any comeback, I'll prolly leave this thread well alone and continue elsewhere.

    I dunno how you do this in the states but to answer the comment that there would be 'strong objection' in europe.. there probably wouldn't be all that much objection, but you'd have to fire some of your best people. I seem to remember a comic on channelate along these lines, people use various substances as a way to cope with various problems and it becomes part of who they are, upset that balance and you destroy, or loose, some of your best talent.

     



  • In the US with the exception of minimum wage jobs you can expect after the Interview if it goes well to be required to get a drug test.  I did not realize that Europe was not like that.  Then again not too long ago I figure Europe used resumes and not CVs.

     

    To EncoreSpod: Drink a large glass of water before you go to sleep it should prevent you from getting a hangover.



  • @Anketam said:

    In the US with the exception of minimum wage jobs you can expect after the Interview if it goes well to be required to get a drug test.  I did not realize that Europe was not like that.  Then again not too long ago I figure Europe used resumes and not CVs.

    Where the fuck are you guys working.

    Unless you have to operate heavy equipment, US companies do not require drug tests. The ones that do are in the minority by far. Stop spreading this crap all over. I don't even know where it's coming from.



  • @Gurth said:

    @Master Chief said:
    I do feel the need to point out that (at least here in the States) drug testing, especially in the public sector, is hardly rare.
    I feel the need to point out that if you tried to enforce that in Europe, you would probably face pretty strong objections to it. @Master Chief said:
    if I was employing people, I'd want to know they weren't involved in any drug related shit.
    Heh … at my so-called "job" (no, I'm not a professional programmer) I get the impression more people use drugs than don't, and they seem to sneak outside to smoke joints just short of all the time … This afternoon someone even rolled one about a meter away from me while I was sitting at my desk.
    If I were the employer, I would sack them in a heartbeat. If they're on the clock, then I am paying them for their time, and I certainly wouldn't be happy paying someone to get inebriated...  I don't care what a person does at home or at the petting zoo (don't judge me!), but as soon as they do it at work or it negatively affects their work (stealing, lying, poor performance, illegal), then they're gone.



  •  EncoreSpod's heady mixture of British slang and slobby typing has melted my brain.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Unless you have to operate heavy equipment, US companies do not require drug tests. The ones that do are in the minority by far. Stop spreading this crap all over. I don't even know where it's coming from.

    This is very much untrue. When I got a job at a grocery store many years ago, I had to get a drug test. I got a drug test (plus a much more thorough background check) for my current job. There are lots of companies that require drug testing. There are lots of companies that don't require drug testing.



  •  As far as drug testing goes I've always wanted to ask... what if you take a trip to Holland, smoke a nice fat joint and then go back home and register positive on the next test? You didn't do anything wrong or even immoral. What happens then?



  • @Zylon said:

     EncoreSpod's heady mixture of British slang and slobby typing has melted my brain.

     

     

    Hahahaha, well I did say I was drinking. :) I'd have spell checked it but I don't have that installed in this browser on this boxed, sorry :D

     



  • @DOA said:

     As far as drug testing goes I've always wanted to ask... what if you take a trip to Holland, smoke a nice fat joint and then go back home and register positive on the next test? You didn't do anything wrong or even immoral. What happens then?

    1. It's illegal for a US citizen to use controlled substances, even outside the US.

    2. Even if it weren't illegal, it's a requirement the employer has established. The requirement isn't "Don't get high in the US" it's "Don't get high". This isn't complicated.

    I've never had a drug test. I've never known anyone who has had one, either. Maybe it varies by region or something. I do think most tech jobs are above drug testing, it seems more common in the lower-end service industries or in labor (construction, factory work, etc.)

    The OP sounds annoying. I probably wouldn't hire him. "I need to do my job drunk and high because I'm a genius." What a bunch of bullshit. Certainly writes terrible code.



  • @DOA said:

    As far as drug testing goes I've always wanted to ask... what if you take a trip to Holland, smoke a nice fat joint and then go back home and register positive on the next test? You didn't do anything wrong or even immoral. What happens then?

    You've got an incorrect definition of "wrong." If the conditions of your employment state that you won't use drugs (or at least, won't test positive), then the legalities and jurisdiction doesn't really matter. Why would it? I imagine it might matter if you had a valid prescription for it in places where that's legal. They might make a change to the conditions of your employment, but then again, they might not.

    I'd imagine similar restrictions would apply to prescription narcotics. For the duration of your prescription, they might change your duties or something (assuming that mattered).



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    @Zylon said:

     EncoreSpod's heady mixture of British slang and slobby typing has melted my brain.

    Hahahaha, well I did say I was drinking. :) I'd have spell checked it but I don't have that installed in this browser on this boxed, sorry :D
    Jesus Christ, you're even sluring as you type.  I just hope you don't piss yourself, unless of course your employer turns a blind eye to that as well...  :)



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    Jesus Christ, you're even sluring as you type.
    Muphry's Law claims another victim.

     



  • @Zylon said:

    @C-Octothorpe said:

    Jesus Christ, you're even sluring as you type.
    Muphry's Law claims another victim.
    Damnit!

    Well, to be fair, it's more ironic than Murphy's Law, no?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    The OP sounds annoying. I probably wouldn't hire him. "I need to do my job drunk and high because I'm a genius." What a bunch of bullshit. Certainly writes terrible code.
     

     You would not believe how truely annoying I am, especially in my
    current role, officially I'm testing for bugs and I have a nasty habit
    of finding them. That makes my job to tell you on a daily basis "your
    code sucks and here is why.". It doesn't make me very popular, but I'm
    used to not being popular.

    There is a reason the universe, god,
    karma, evolution or whatever your prefered explanation of existence
    is... gave me a middle finger. And that is, to raise it in peoples
    faces. :D

    And yeah I do write terrible code, if I could dig out
    some of my early stuff it would be true WTF... some of it didn't have
    indentation, whitepsace or any comments and I named functions randomly
    depending on the topic of conversation in the office. I remember one
    called fatajapaneseman(), there was a conversation about sumo, and one
    called explodingofficebuildings(), the first plane had just hit the WTC.

    I certainly will not deny being an annoying slob. :)

     

     

     

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Even if it weren't illegal, it's a requirement the employer has established. The requirement isn't "Don't get high in the US" it's "Don't get high".
    Ok, that makes sense.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    It's illegal for a US citizen to use controlled substances, even outside the US

    Weird



  • @DOA said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    Even if it weren't illegal, it's a requirement the employer has established. The requirement isn't "Don't get high in the US" it's "Don't get high".
    Ok, that makes sense.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    It's illegal for a US citizen to use controlled substances, even outside the US

    Weird
    I liked your original version better...


  • @Anketam said:

    Then again not too long ago I figure Europe used resumes and not CVs.

    Unless you're in Italy.

    @Anketam said:

    To EncoreSpod: Drink a large glass of water before you go to sleep it should prevent you from getting a hangover.

    That, as well as glugging a good gutful of pure orange juice in the morning. VitC kick usually banishes the beer wobbles.

    @C-Octothorpe said:

    If I were the employer, I would sack them in a heartbeat....

    but as soon as they do it at work or it negatively affects their work (stealing, lying, poor performance, illegal), then they're gone.

    Are you going to sack them because they're smoking dope, or are you going to sack them because you believe it negatively affects their work?

    @DOA said:

     As far as drug testing goes I've always wanted to
    ask... what if you take a trip to Holland, smoke a nice fat joint and
    then go back home and register positive on the next test? You didn't do
    anything wrong or even immoral. What happens then?

    Someone did this for a TV programme - they ate loads of poppycake then failed an test that implied heroin use.

     

     

     



  • I have not seen a single direct hire (ie non-consultant) role in the NY area for software related work at large companies (over 100-200 people) that did NOT require a drug test in the past 5 years. One of the reasons is insurance. The vast majority of insurance carriers require a drug test before providing coverage. So if the company offers this insurance to employees, they must provide the drug test results to the insurance company at point of hire.

    What I have found interesting is the number of cients who want consultants drug tested. For many positions, this may make sense. But when the contract is with a company (who may assign individuals at will), it becomes very interesting trying to figure out how to have the company submit to a drug test, since the contract is between the organiations.



  • @Gurth said:

    I feel the need to point out that if you tried to enforce that in Europe, you would probably face pretty strong objections to it.
     

    You assume that I think Europe, the continent with more nations in bankruptcy than not, is a good society to model one's own after.

    There is absolutely no argument I can see against drug testing, as long as it's a pre-discussed requirement of the job.  If you don't want to be tested, then you don't work for me.  It's quite simple.

    As to the question of overseas use, morbius is 100% correct.  If you find yourself unable to stand by the terms of your employment, then you shouldn't be entering into that position.



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    Creative people have always enjoyed substances in one description or another, perhaps to enhance their muse, or perhaps as a form of self medication to mediate themselves onto the right side of the often described line between genius and madness, who knows.
     

    Oh please, don't wrap me and other creative professionals up in your habits.  I manage to be plenty creative without the use of mind altering substances.  

    And don't try and disguise or glamorize it either.  I don't care if you want to get high, that's your business and you will deal with the consequences.  But be honest with yourself at least.  It's a crutch to get over your life's problems or to mask your own personal failures, and nothing more.  Just like alcohol, or cocaine, or whatever your vice of choice, it's all the same crap peddled to the same group of pathetic people.

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Anketam said:

    In the US with the exception of minimum wage jobs you can expect after the Interview if it goes well to be required to get a drug test.  I did not realize that Europe was not like that.  Then again not too long ago I figure Europe used resumes and not CVs.

    Where the fuck are you guys working.

    Unless you have to operate heavy equipment, US companies do not require drug tests. The ones that do are in the minority by far. Stop spreading this crap all over. I don't even know where it's coming from.

    http://www.theledger.com/article/20070206/NEWS/702060387

    Darn that 84% minority.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    I have not seen a single direct hire (ie non-consultant) role in the NY area for software related work at large companies (over 100-200 people) that did NOT require a drug test in the past 5 years.

    Good point, the largest company I've ever worked with had 70 employees.



  • @Master Chief said:

    Just like alcohol, or cocaine, or whatever your vice of choice, it's all the same crap peddled to the same group of pathetic people.

    At least he didn't mentioned Thai ladyboys: I'm safe!!



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @Master Chief said:
    Just like alcohol, or cocaine, or whatever your vice of choice, it's all the same crap peddled to the same group of pathetic people.
    At least he didn't mentioned Thai ladyboys: I'm safe!!
    I'm pretty sure those are for a whole different group of pathetic people.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    http://www.theledger.com/article/20070206/NEWS/702060387

    Darn that 84% minority.

    TRWTFs are those expanding and contracting ads on that site.



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    well I did say I was drinking.
     

    Don't do beer, man. Want to know what happens? Just look at my icon!



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    At least he didn't mentioned Thai ladyboys: I'm safe!!
    I'm pretty sure those are for a whole different group of pathetic people.

     

    hey.

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @TheCPUWizard said:
    I have not seen a single direct hire (ie non-consultant) role in the NY area for software related work at large companies (over 100-200 people) that did NOT require a drug test in the past 5 years.

    Good point, the largest company I've ever worked with had 70 employees.

    Try working at a company that has 50 times that many software people (and ovet 100,000 employees total!)



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @TheCPUWizard said:
    I have not seen a single direct hire (ie non-consultant) role in the NY area for software related work at large companies (over 100-200 people) that did NOT require a drug test in the past 5 years.

    Good point, the largest company I've ever worked with had 70 employees.

    Try working at a company that has 50 times that many software people (and ovet 100,000 employees total!)

    No.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    http://www.theledger.com/article/20070206/NEWS/702060387

    Darn that 84% minority.

    TRWTFs are those expanding and contracting ads on that site.
    ?  The page as a whole stays the same width when I expand and contract it.


  • @Sutherlands said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @Sutherlands said:

    http://www.theledger.com/article/20070206/NEWS/702060387

    Darn that 84% minority.

    TRWTFs are those expanding and contracting ads on that site.
    ?  The page as a whole stays the same width when I expand and contract it.

    As I started reading the article, the ad just under the sections menu (home, news, etc) would expand vertically. Going back there now, the ad isn't doing that automatically, but only upon click. Then after a little while after being expanded, it would contract to its previous height. Weird.



  • @TheCPUWizard said:

    I have not seen a single direct hire (ie non-consultant) role in the NY area for software related work at large companies (over 100-200 people) that did NOT require a drug test in the past 5 years.

    Even contract companies are requiring drug tests nowadays. I have been requested to take a drug test for every job I've had in the last 15 years. And background checks are getting a lot more 'normal'.

    Mostly they require it up front, but reserve the right to randomly test. I think that kind of policy is in place to make it easier to fire people who aren't performing well. "Oh, Employee Foo wasn't performing well... AND broke our Zero Tolerance Drug rule." The place I currently work has signs all over which say "if you suspect someone's using drugs, report it to HR" ... but the state I work in has marijuana dispensaries, so... I'd be curious to see what would happen with the handful of people who I know have prescriptions in a "random drug test".



  • @EncoreSpod said:

    To judge a person by their choice of high is just a social thing, an arbitrary decision based on prejudice that bears no relation to the facts.

    Oh, please do come off it. No, it's not! They're not called mind-altering substances for no reason. I think I've done a couple of hallucinogens in my time, including weed and shrooms, and I think anyone who tries to work on shrooms is either nuts, or has never done shrooms before and is in for quite a nasty surprise indeed (watch out with shrooms, kids; seriously). Don't me wrong: shrooms can be great but NOT at work. As for weed, people like to say it's non-addictive which is a load of rubbish (although I must admit it sure is hard to get addicted to). And sure, it makes you creative and insightful but it also makes you sluggish, forgetful and hard to follow. Awesome if you're writing a rock tune, but sucky if you need to work with other people. If I were an employer, based on personal experience, I'd say I would definitely not allow people high on the job, especially not in an office environment. Now you tell me how my viewpoint is arbitrary and prejudiced, and why it does not bear relation to "the facts". I'd like to see your arguments.

    I'd like to just mention that I've never seen an office workplace where being stoned at work is common and/or socially accepted. You do weed at work, you get written up at the very least if the boss finds out. It's considered okay to get high or wasted outside of the workplace (as long as it doesn't hurt the company) but at work? No way.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    @Master Chief said:
    Just like alcohol, or cocaine, or whatever your vice of choice, it's all the same crap peddled to the same group of pathetic people.
    At least he didn't mentioned Thai ladyboys: I'm safe!!
    I'm pretty sure those are for a whole different group of pathetic really, really creepy people.

     

     



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    1) It's illegal for a US citizen to use controlled substances, even outside the US.

     

    That's close but not true. Drug distribution, use, etc is regulated at a federal level by the Controlled Substances Act of 1970.  It is a territorial criminal statute just like most other US criminal statutes (meaning the offence has to take on US soil with some exceptions like military and ships).

    Last year, the house of representatives passed the Drug Trafficking Safe Harbor Elimination Act of 2011 which would give US prosecutors the authority to prosecute certain violations of the Controlled Substances Act (mostly drug trafficking/distribution related) abroad regardless of the violator's citizenship status.  This bill has not been voted on by the Senate yet, so it is not law.

     And of course some controlled substances (e.g. medical drugs) are legal to use with a prescription.

     



  • @huai said:

    And of course some controlled substances (e.g. medical drugs) are legal to use with a prescription.

    Well, obviously. I figured that went without saying.

    @huai said:

    That's close but not true. Drug distribution, use, etc is regulated at a federal level by the Controlled Substances Act of 1970.  It is a territorial criminal statute just like most other US criminal statutes (meaning the offence has to take on US soil with some exceptions like military and ships).

    Last year, the house of representatives passed the Drug Trafficking Safe Harbor Elimination Act of 2011 which would give US prosecutors the authority to prosecute certain violations of the Controlled Substances Act (mostly drug trafficking/distribution related) abroad regardless of the violator's citizenship status.  This bill has not been voted on by the Senate yet, so it is not law.

    Hmm.. good point. I've read several times that drug tourism was illegal, but I can't seem to find any resources to back it up, so I defer to your knowledge.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Anketam said:

    In the US with the exception of minimum wage jobs you can expect after the Interview if it goes well to be required to get a drug test.  I did not realize that Europe was not like that.  Then again not too long ago I figure Europe used resumes and not CVs.

    Where the fuck are you guys working.

    Unless you have to operate heavy equipment, US companies do not require drug tests. The ones that do are in the minority by far. Stop spreading this crap all over. I don't even know where it's coming from.

    Where the fuck are you working as a programmer that they're not doing drug tests? I think three out of the last five places I've been required one as a condition of employment (one of them was indrectly government contracting.)

    Also: after 9/11 I was working at a chain convenience store for a while, and I had to take a drug test for that.



  • I turned down a job that wanted me to take a drug test on principle (that they didn't mention until after they offered the position and I accepted), and I don't even do caffineated drinks.

    Even got to keep collecting unemployment until I got a different job. Asking me for bodily fluids counts as a hostile workplace.



  • @bgodot said:

    Asking me for bodily fluids counts as a hostile workplace.

    Quit your fucking whining. I would generally turn down any job that required a drug test, but I'm not going to pretend I'm some kind of fucking folk hero for it. I just use drugs sometimes and would prefer not to lose my job.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Where the fuck are you working as a programmer that they're not doing drug tests? I think three out of the last five places I've been required one as a condition of employment (one of them was indrectly government contracting.)

    It seems like it's mostly large companies that require drug testing. I have never done a drug test, I have never even heard of a place doing it.

    @FrostCat said:

    Also: after 9/11 I was working at a chain convenience store for a while, and I had to take a drug test for that.

    Those are the kinds of places I would expect to do drug tests. Although, come to think of it, almost every minimum-wage-ish employee I've known has abused drugs and has never had a problem with drug tests. Many of them worked for large, multinational corporations.



  • @FrostCat said:

    Where the fuck are you working as a programmer that they're not doing drug tests?

    The largest company I was full-time at with no drug testing policy (I was aware of) was Microsoft. Maybe you've heard of them?

    I think this is an east coast vs. west coast thing. And, per usual, the east coast comes out looking like the documentary Escape from New York.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    The largest company I was full-time at with no drug testing policy (I was aware of) was Microsoft. Maybe you've heard of them?

    Is that some second-tier Linux distro? herp dee durp

    @blakeyrat said:

    I think this is an east coast vs. west coast thing.

    Most of the work I've done has been on the east coast.

    @blakeyrat said:

    And, per usual, the east coast comes out looking like the documentary Escape from New York.

    Yeah, well, the west coast looks like one of those shiftless European countries, like Ireland.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    I think this is an east coast vs. west coast thing.
    Your BS meter isn't going off right about now?  You don't listen to yourself and think "I've got nothing to back up my position.  I have no reason to think this is the case except my own anecdotal evidence."?  86% seems like "an east cost vs. west coast thing"?  Geez, blakey, hit yourself with the cluebat.


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