Employee training and development



  • From the corporate email of €100 million p.a. turnover IT company.

    "The company will reimburse the costs of taking the examinations leading to successful accreditation or certificates,
    up to a maximum of €300 (gross) per certificate awarded in a subject relevant to the employee’s work. There is no limitto the number of awards that can be claimed.
    The programme is administered by the HR Manager and awards will be subject to review and approval in case of any doubt of the eligibility of the training undertaken."
    <FONT face=Tahoma> </FONT>

    <FONT face=Tahoma>i.e. we don't pay, we don't provide training, we don't give days off for training, but if you get a professional certification relevant to your work and you pay it from your own pocket and spend your own free time and holidays to do it, we will throw you €300 gross pocket money.</FONT>



  • Isn't that.... we will pay €300 for you to get accreditations?  So your complaint is that they don't give you time off work to get BS professional certifications?



  •  @Sutherlands said:

    Isn't that.... we will pay €300 for you to get accreditations?  So your complaint is that they don't give you time off work to get BS professional certifications?

    Whether BS professional certifications or not, in the vast majority of calls for tenders they are required. So the company requires professional certifications to get contracts but will not pay for them. In any case it's a joke of a training policy.



  • Many companies are required by contract to have x number of a particular cert.  PMP is a common one.   And microsoft partners are required as well.



  • What cert costs only $600-ish?



  • @Manos said:

    calls for tenders
    Wha?@Manos said:
    So the company requires professional certifications to get contracts but will not pay for them. In any case it's a joke of a training policy.
    If they're requiring you to get them, that's different.  Either way, maybe it's just my experience, but most places don't grant time off work to take classes/certification. 



  • @blakeyrat said:

    What cert costs only $600-ish?

    Enroll your employee at community college and get two MCTS certs for free. ;)



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @Manos said:

    calls for tenders
    Wha?@Manos said:
    So the company requires professional certifications to get contracts but will not pay for them. In any case it's a joke of a training policy.
    If they're requiring you to get them, that's different.  Either way, maybe it's just my experience, but most places don't grant time off work to take classes/certification. 


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @blakeyrat said:

    What cert costs only $600-ish?

    Actually it's more like $400, but that actually enhances your point (Were you thinking of British money, which actually would be closer to $600?)



  • @galgorah said:

    Many companies are required by contract to have x number of a particular cert.  PMP is a common one.   And microsoft partners are required as well.

    The other possibility is that this is a box-ticking exercise that gets them some brownie points towards a government scheme like "Investing in people" or similar.



  • @FrostCat said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    What cert costs only $600-ish?

    Actually it's more like $400, but that actually enhances your point (Were you thinking of British money, which actually would be closer to $600?)

    Whatever, the point is they all cost twice that even if you don't buy any training materials or classes. Omniture charges around $2200 for certs on their web analytics stuff, and the certs expire every year. That's like $9000/year if you do all the certs.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Omniture charges around $2200 for certs on their web analytics stuff, and the certs expire every year. That's like $9000/year if you do all the certs.

    $9000 /year!?! You could hire 3 web analytics programmers for that much!



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    Omniture charges around $2200 for certs on their web analytics stuff, and the certs expire every year. That's like $9000/year if you do all the certs.

    $9000 /year!?! You could hire 3 web analytics programmers for that much!

    Omniture is basically the IBM of web analytics. Their products suck*, so their tactic is to sell at the C*O level (i.e. people who don't actually use the product on a day-to-day basis) and charge out the wazzoo for consulting. Now that they're owned by Adobe, you can imagine things are going to get much better.

    *) Except Test&Target, which only doesn't suck because they've only owned it a couple years and they haven't had time to add suck to it.



  • Sounds like my work place. Then they ask at interviews for the whole J2EE-.Net-C++-ObjC package.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @FrostCat said:
    @blakeyrat said:
    What cert costs only $600-ish?

    Actually it's more like $400, but that actually enhances your point (Were you thinking of British money, which actually would be closer to $600?)

    Whatever, the point is they all cost twice that even if you don't buy any training materials or classes. Omniture charges around $2200 for certs on their web analytics stuff, and the certs expire every year. That's like $9000/year if you do all the certs.

    Exactly my point. It's pocket money. Also the €300 is gross. The employee will have to pay tax and national insurance because it's not an re-imbursement but rather a "payment".

    They are bozos...



  • @Manos said:

    Exactly my point. It's pocket money. Also the €300 is gross. The employee will have to pay tax and national insurance because it's not an re-imbursement but rather a "payment".

    I'd send an email back saying, "it looks like there was a typo in the employee training email, it said €300 when it clearly should be €3000."



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Manos said:
    Exactly my point. It's pocket money. Also the €300 is gross. The employee will have to pay tax and national insurance because it's not an re-imbursement but rather a "payment".

    I'd send an email back saying, "it looks like there was a typo in the employee training email, it said €300 when it clearly should be €3000."

    Are you mad? Speak to the sales team at your local training centre and have them split each course into <€300 chunks with separate 'certification' per chunk. Obviously the number and price of the chunks can vary depending on just how much of a ride you wish to take your employers for.



  • Into what?



  • In two.

     



  • In to two what?

    Jesus, man.



  • @dhromed said:

    In to two what?

    Courses, meaning the meager compensation offered can be applied multiple times.  Or at least that's what I assume what was missing off of the post you were originally complaining about.



  • @dhromed said:

    In to two what?

    Jesus, man.

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?
     

    I made a new one!

     

    You may commence, dear populace!  (scroll to Public Icon Effect)



  • @fterfi secure said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    @Manos said:
    Exactly my point. It's pocket money. Also the €300 is gross. The employee will have to pay tax and national insurance because it's not an re-imbursement but rather a "payment".

    I'd send an email back saying, "it looks like there was a typo in the employee training email, it said €300 when it clearly should be €3000."

    Are you mad? Speak to the sales team at your local training centre and have them split each course into

    Eh, what the hell happened there. That was an end to that sentence before, honest. Something like 'into <€300 chunks with individual certificates' and something about how the number of chunks and the price might vary depending on how much you wanted to screw your employer.



  • @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?
     

    I made a new one!

     

    You may commence, dear populace!  (scroll to Public Icon Effect)

    I was going to complain, but then I realized the change to your icon isn't as bad as morbius' icon in general.


  • @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?

    He made it into



  • @fterfi secure said:

    @fterfi secure said:
    Are you mad? Speak to the sales team at your local training centre and have them split each course into

    Eh, what the hell happened there. That was an end to that sentence before, honest. Something like 'into

    I lol'd.



  • @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?
     

    I made a new one!

     

    You may commence, dear populace!  (scroll to Public Icon Effect)

    I don't care for this one bit. You need to change it back.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?
     

    I made a new one!

     

    You may commence, dear populace!  (scroll to Public Icon Effect)

    I was going to complain, but then I realized the change to your icon isn't as bad as morbius' icon in general.

    I will cut your face.



  • @dhromed said:

    In to two what?

    Jesus, man.


    But you can't split Jesus. He was God and Man in one . . . unsplittable.


    Next time choose something that can be easily split. Like Blakey and Rat. Or Morbius and Wilters. Those work.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Now that they're owned by Adobe, you can imagine things are going to get much better.
    It's the perfect storm!

     



  • @nonpartisan said:

    @dhromed said:

    In to two what?

    Jesus, man.


    But you can't split Jesus. He was God and Man in one . . . unsplittable.

    I aim to prove otherwise with my new Jesus fission reactor.  Let's try bombarding him and see what happens.



  • TRWTF is, of course, your training costs?

    70-662 self paced traning kit @ Amazon: € 40, taking a multiple guess exam is roughly € 100, leaving you well below the maximum of € 300.

    The email specifically states "The company will reimburse the costs", you present them the bill, they fork over the money and the tax department leaves empty handed (at least here in the Netherlands).



  • @pnieuwkamp said:

    TRWTF is, of course, your training costs?

    70-662 self paced traning kit @ Amazon: € 40, taking a multiple guess exam is roughly € 100, leaving you well below the maximum of € 300.

    The email specifically states "The company will reimburse the costs", you present them the bill, they fork over the money and the tax department leaves empty handed (at least here in the Netherlands).

    A, You have to get a professional certification which costs much more than €40. They don't cover books and training material.

    B. It's partial reimbursement up to €300 so it's a payment subject to tax and national insurance. Even if they manage to pay-pass the tax, the amount is a joke.

    C. Certification exams are usually done during working hours so employees have to use their own holidays

    D. I am quite sure the laughable policy in question will have to opposite effect from the intended one...



  • A) ...because a Microsoft Exam isn't professional? I think I'm missing the point?

    B) You pay taxes on reimbursements? Where do you live? Well, I guess, never leave home without the company credit card then... Also, don't go by any other means of transportation than a company car or with company bought tickets for public transit. Let the company provide your home internet, perhaps you pay them for your private use. What kind of brain dead government do you have?

    C) Oh, that is bad, I agree.



  • @pnieuwkamp said:

    A) ...because a Microsoft Exam isn't professional? I think I'm missing the point?

     

    A Microsoft exam alone costs $150

    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/exam-prep.aspx



  • I think I'm still missing the point?

    If I ask Google how much 150 dollar is in euro, I get € 113 which is about the "roughly 100" I mentioned earlier, and you still haven't explained why an MS exam would not be professional :P



  • @pnieuwkamp said:

    I think I'm still missing the point?

    If I ask Google how much 150 dollar is in euro, I get € 113 which is about the "roughly 100" I mentioned earlier, and you still haven't explained why an MS exam would not be professional :P

    The point is that technical and professional certifications would normally require training, time, effort and money that the company is not prepared to provide for but they would happily take any certication for a nominal amount and use it in bids. If you think that is the right way for employee development and engagement then we will just have to agree that we disagree.



  • @hoodaticus said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Now that they're owned by Adobe, you can imagine things are going to get much better.
    It's the perfect storm!
    Like a truck-stop mens room in the morning filled with unwashed, fat bastards who all overindulged in bean burritos the night before?



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    @hoodaticus said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Now that they're owned by Adobe, you can imagine things are going to get much better.
    It's the perfect storm!
    Like a truck-stop mens room in the morning filled with unwashed, fat bastards who all overindulged in bean burritos the night before?

    Yes, like Adobe.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @C-Octothorpe said:

    @hoodaticus said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Now that they're owned by Adobe, you can imagine things are going to get much better.
    It's the perfect storm!
    Like a truck-stop mens room in the morning filled with unwashed, fat bastards who all overindulged in bean burritos the night before?

    Yes, like Adobe.
    Woah, woah woah!!!  Now hold on a second there!  The people at Adobe aren't unwashed, fat truckers, they're unwashed fat laywers...  Get your facts strait, dammit!


  • @Manos said:

    @pnieuwkamp said:

    I think I'm still missing the point? If I ask Google how much 150 dollar is in euro, I get € 113 which is about the "roughly 100" I mentioned earlier, and you still haven't explained why an MS exam would not be professional :P

    The point is that technical and professional certifications would normally require training, time, effort and money that the company is not prepared to provide for but they would happily take any certication for a nominal amount and use it in bids. If you think that is the right way for employee development and engagement then we will just have to agree that we disagree.

    You're doing it wrong.  First, you have to acknowledge that most technical certifications only serve to get potential employees past HR and to help consulting companies pretend they know what they are doing during the bid process.  There is very little technical meat behind these certifications.  So, why would you spend any significant amount of time and money learning the technology when you can spend a few hours with some exam prep software and pass the exam?  The company reimburses your financial investment; you're out a few hours of personal time and get something to slap on your resume in return.  Everyone is happy.



  • @DaveK said:

    @nonpartisan said:

    But you can't split Jesus. He was God and Man in one . . . unsplittable.

    I aim to prove otherwise with my new Jesus fission reactor.  Let's try bombarding him and see what happens.

    Gotta wait for him to return.  It'll be too late at that point.

     



  • @nonpartisan said:

    @DaveK said:

    @nonpartisan said:

    But you can't split Jesus. He was God and Man in one . . . unsplittable.

    I aim to prove otherwise with my new Jesus fission reactor.  Let's try bombarding him and see what happens.

    Gotta wait for him to return.  It'll be too late at that point.
    That's why Jesus fission is going to succeed where Jesus fusion failed.  Imagine having to wait around for TWO of them to show up!

    Of course, Jesus is always created in a pair along with an Anti-Christ, as demanded by the law of conservation of quantum deity number.  Direct conversion by annihiliation of Jesuses and Anti-Christs would be an even more powerful source of energy.



  • @DaveK said:

    That's why Jesus fission is going to succeed where Jesus fusion failed.
     

    That's the one thing we know about what Jesus did in his spare time.  He went fishin'.



  • @da Doctah said:

    That's the one thing we know about what Jesus did in his spare time.  He went fishin'.

    He did? I heard he actually outsourced the Fish Acquisition Process to multiple third parties as part of a long-term supply strategy.



  • @Cassidy said:

    He did? I heard he actually outsourced the Fish Acquisition Process to multiple third parties as part of a long-term supply strategy.

    Are you sure you didn't mean to post in the "awkward acronyms" thread?



  • I lose my way again? Damn that Google Erf.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @dhromed said:

    @morbiuswilters said:

    What the hell happened to your avatar!?
     

    I made a new one!

     

    You may commence, dear populace!  (scroll to Public Icon Effect)

    I was going to complain, but then I realized the change to your icon isn't as bad as morbius' icon in general.

    Hey, I think the Japanese chick on morbius' icon is hot. Dunno if that's really him/her; I recall the avatar being some angry old man a few years back.

    Dhromed's new avatar, on the other hand, looks like some drug-addicted inmate in a federal prison.



  • @tdb said:

    Hey, I think the Japanese chick on morbius' icon is hot. Dunno if that's really him/her; I recall the avatar being some angry old man a few years back.

    I wish it was me!! It's Japanese actress Aya Ueto, from her show Attention Please.

    @tdb said:

    Dhromed's new avatar, on the other hand, looks like some drug-addicted inmate in a federal prison.

    Stop complimenting him; it sucks.


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