Sketchers.com



  • Got a hot tip in TDWTF's inbox from Chris H.:



    Go to sketchers.com -> (rightclick) view source -> head explode



    Just...Wow.



  •  Hmm, no view source required...




  •  



  • Tomorrow's article can for another day... this epic WTF has been front page'd - http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Sketchy-Skecherscom.aspx

     



  • WorldOfWarcraft.com did that for ages, before they redesigned it. It never occurred to me to submit it as a WTF, damnit.

    Edit: I might actually be thinking of Bungie.net... one of those two sites did it, but both no longer do.



  • I like the way they disabled the inline Javascript and CSS and saw a need to add HTML escapes for carriage returns:

    [code]<script language="javascript">
    function toggle() {
    var vid = document.getElementById("video");
    var text = document.getElementById("displayText");
    if(vid.style.display == "block") {
    vid.style.display = "none";
    text.innerHTML = "show";
    }
    else {
    vid.style.display = "block";
    text.innerHTML = "hide";
    }
    } [/code]



  •  It was World of Warcraft, but at least there was a use-case for that. A lot of players put together guild websites (I was amongst them) and it was easier to pull content from their XML than try to scrape the HTML, as the HTML changed quite frequently, but the XML remained fairly consistent. Of course, I wouldn't have had to parse the XML if they'd offered a proper API, but at the time (not sure if they do now, I don't play the game anymore) they didn't, and the only way to grab guild/player stats was from parsing the XML, and they actually promoted this method in their forums.

    I think they now may have split the main site off from the armory, as I believe they used to all be run from the same framework or something like that.



  • @Mark Bowytz said:

    Got a hot tip in TDWTF's inbox from Chris H.:



    Go to sketchers.com -> (rightclick) view source -> head explode



    Just...Wow.

    What the BOOM

    But why, oh why did you want to view the source?



  • @ASheridan2 said:

    It was World of Warcraft, but at least there was a use-case for that.

    Thanks for confirming my sanity; I KNEW I'd seen this before, and on a much bigger/more complex site than Sketchers, too.

    And yet both of us failed to realized the reaction it'd get from the WTF community. Sad.



  • So that's how the sausage is made.



  • I've seen plenty of websites (mostly blogs) that won't load the content unless I let them run Javascript.

    But it's been a long time since I've seen a website that won't render at all without Javascript...



  •  Just for kicks, I turned off JS and loaded up twitter.

    It renders. It popped up a message (how thoughtful!) but it renders just fine. I amd surprised. I thought it was 90-100% pieced together from JS as well.



  •  I took a look at XSL a while back and decided that the brainpower required to learn it was well beyond what I was willing to spare on simple curiocity.

    What exactly is a legitimate use for it? Is there some case where XSL has an advantage over other technologies?



  • @Gurth said:

    I like the way they disabled the inline Javascript and CSS and saw a need to add HTML escapes for carriage returns:

    &lt;script language=&quot;javascript&quot;&gt; &#xD;
    function toggle() {&#xD;
    	var vid = document.getElementById(&quot;video&quot;);&#xD;
    	var text = document.getElementById(&quot;displayText&quot;);&#xD;
    	if(vid.style.display == &quot;block&quot;) {&#xD;
        		vid.style.display = &quot;none&quot;;&#xD;
    		text.innerHTML = &quot;show&quot;;&#xD;
      	}&#xD;
    	else {&#xD;
    		vid.style.display = &quot;block&quot;;&#xD;
    		text.innerHTML = &quot;hide&quot;;&#xD;
    	}&#xD;
    } &#xD;

    I feel like I'm getting trolled by this code. Look, it's LAUGHING AT ME!



  • @DOA said:

     I took a look at XSL a while back and decided that the brainpower required to learn it was well beyond what I was willing to spare on simple curiocity.

    What exactly is a legitimate use for it? Is there some case where XSL has an advantage over other technologies?

    XSL transformations are a direct way of transforming your XML data into a differently structured XML document. In the case of the OP, the raw XML data is transformed in XHTML.

    Honestly I don't have a problem with the basic idea: load your XML data from any data source, transform it into XHTML and then apply a CSS. It looks like a nice and clean separation of data, presentation and formatting concerns. However, I would have executed the XSLT server side and made the XML publicly available via a web service if the raw data was needed for other purposes as well.

    Isn't this what happens when you execute a unit test in Visual Studio? Test results are saved into an XML (easy accessible programmatically) that you can also browse in a userfriendly way thanks to the included XSLT?

     



  • @dhromed said:

     Just for kicks, I turned off JS and loaded up twitter.

    It renders. It popped up a message (how thoughtful!) but it renders just fine. I amd surprised. I thought it was 90-100% pieced together from JS as well.

    Granted you can't actually do anything once it renders... (Then again, I'm still on Old New Twitter so I don't know about the new UI. No I have no idea how and I do want to switch.)

    Also before now I had no idea I could turn off JavaScript in Chrome.



  • @bjolling said:

    @DOA said:

     I took a look at XSL a while back and decided that the brainpower required to learn it was well beyond what I was willing to spare on simple curiocity.

    What exactly is a legitimate use for it? Is there some case where XSL has an advantage over other technologies?

    XSL transformations are a direct way of transforming your XML data into a differently structured XML document. In the case of the OP, the raw XML data is transformed in XHTML.

    Pedantic dickweedery time: XSL is a language used for transforming XML into something else:

    • XSLT can be used to transform XML data into XHTML for website presentation (which bjolling described above)
    • XSL-FO can be used to transform the XML into a PDF (or Word, Excel, etc) format.
    </pedant>

    XSL is pretty powerful in what it can do, and I've used it in a number of places, for example having my CV as XML data then render it into XHTML for a website but PDF for printable copy. I use it for a lot of data re-purposing: I've taken XML feeds from various comics sites and run them through an XSLT that delivers just the comic without the surrounding blurb, so I've got a page that collates several cartoons together into one.

    TRWTF is where it's an overkill - such as an enterprisey flexible scalable solution involving XML (and related) technology for a small problem - and the finished product requires a great deal of developer and machine effort to deliver something that alternative solutions could have done in a fraction of the cost.

    Another common WTF is people who have encountered unpleasant experiences involving bad XML implementations then hear "XML", "XSL", "XHTML" (and anything else beginning with X, apart from "XXX-rated")  and automatically pour scorn upon it, automatically assuming that it's a steaming turd that should be burnt to a crisp. I know this is more of a problem with ignorance and behaviour rather than the technology at hand, but shite implementations in the early days by technophiles masturbating over W3C specs claiming XML to be magical gold dust that solves all interoperability issues has tarnished XML/XS/etc with a reputation in some areas that's hard to shake.

    I'd recommend dipping your toe into it. Hell, if you want, I'll forward a few guides of my own to get your started. When I show people this stuff, it doesn't completely excite them (I don't evangelise it) but discussions quickly turn to ideas of where it can be used and how it can open up more options than the current systems in-situ. After you get a taster and decide against it.. well, that's your choice... but at least you can state for the record that you're aware of what it is and can give valid reasons for not using it, rather than remaining blissfully ignorant.[1]

    [1] not saying you are, but I think you get my point about informed choices versus stubborn denial.



  • @Cassidy said:

    XSL is pretty powerful in what it can do, and I've used it in a number of places, for example having my CV as XML data then render it into XHTML for a website but PDF for printable copy.

    Seriously?

    That was easier than "Save As..."?

    @Cassidy said:

    I use it for a lot of data re-purposing: I've taken XML feeds from various comics sites and run them through an XSLT that delivers just the comic without the surrounding blurb, so I've got a page that collates several cartoons together into one.

    That's easier than just using a RSS reader?

    @Cassidy said:

    TRWTF is where it's an overkill

    Like maybe with a tiny text document and reading comics? Yeah...

    Do you people read your own posts before posting?

    @Cassidy said:

    Another common WTF is people who have encountered unpleasant experiences involving bad XML implementations then hear "XML", "XSL", "XHTML" (and anything else beginning with X, apart from "XXX-rated") 
    and automatically pour scorn upon it, automatically assuming that it's a steaming turd that should be burnt to a crisp.

    Yeah, that's pretty much me. The only thing I'll say for XML is that it's better than, say, HL7 for data interchange. But that's mostly because HL7 is somehow, miraculously, WORSE than XML.

    Java has similar problems, with the one notable addition that despite being told hundreds of times that there are good Java GUI apps out there, I've never actually seen one myself.



  • Holy christ, the web "manager" posting a response to this...

    At first it reads like sarcasm, but I'm sure it's legit.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Seriously? That was easier than "Save As..."?

    Save as XML? Well, I decided upon that since I could make updates to the content and still have the XHTML/PDF version rendering the most recent.

    (it also was a proof-of-concept at the time, so I stuck to it)

    @blakeyrat said:

    That's easier than just using a RSS reader?

    No, but it provides me with the output that I couldn't get an RSS reader to provide.

    (admittedly, I've not used many RSS readers - only the live feeds in Firefox. Recommend me do and I'll compare)

    @blakeyrat said:

    But that's mostly because HL7 is somehow, miraculously, WORSE than XML....

    ...Java has similar problems, with the one notable addition that despite being told hundreds of times that there are good Java GUI apps out there, I've never actually seen one myself.

    Not used HL7 so can't comment. Incidentally, Java FOP is what I used to show the XML+XSLT/XSL-FO -> PDF. No GUI, mind.

    In terms of good GUI apps... I don't think Oracle's SQL Developer is too bad as an app. It's pretty fully-featured, but any Java-based GUI app is going to suffer from the legacy problem that Java wasn't traditionally used for GUI-orientated applications (unlike VB, C# etc) so the Java world has plenty of great apps coders with little or no experience of UI design. Hell, remembering early Firefox (and later plugins), I think it's an issue that plagues much of the open-source community.



  • @Cassidy said:

    Save as XML?

    Christ people are dense. No. You would not save as XML. Nobody wants your XML shit. If it's a resume, they want HTML or maybe PDF or maybe Word DOC or DOCX*. Nobody wants XML. You would not save as XML. Because nobody wants it. Why do I have to spell this out. Is it not obvious that nobody wants XML?

    😉 Yes I recognize the irony now shut up

    @Cassidy said:

    (it also was a proof-of-concept at the time, so I stuck to it)

    What was the "concept?" Wasting time doing pointless shit with unpleasant technologies?

    @Cassidy said:

    In terms of good GUI apps... I don't think Oracle's SQL Developer is too bad as an app.

    I've never used it, but I can confidently say you're wrong.

    @Cassidy said:

    It's pretty fully-featured, but any Java-based GUI app is going to suffer from the legacy problem that Java wasn't traditionally used for GUI-orientated applications (unlike VB, C# etc) so the Java world has plenty of great apps coders with little or no experience of UI design.

    Java was sold as a way of making cross-platform GUI apps. It was built for that purpose. (Not exclusively for that purpose, but still.) It just sucks.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    No. You would not save as XML. Nobody wants your XML shit. If it's a resume, they want HTML or maybe PDF or maybe Word DOC or DOCX*. Nobody wants XML. You would not save as XML. Because nobody wants it. Why do I have to spell this out. Is it not obvious that nobody wants XML?

    Hmm.. I said earlier that I store it as XML, so that I could render it into HTML and PDF because that's what people want. And you then said "Save As"...

    ... oh, never mind. I guess you're agreeing with me in a roundabout way.

    @blakeyrat said:

    What was the "concept?" Wasting time doing pointless shit with unpleasant technologies?

    Proof that XML + XSL could repurpose data into different presentation formats. This was quite a few years ago (10 or so).  I'm guessing that Sketchers did the same thing around the same time, but remained fixated enough to create an entire website with it (and Blizzard beforehand, according to the article's comments).

    @blakeyrat said:

    I've never used it, but I can confidently say you're wrong.

    You can say that with confidence, but without using it your level of confidence is gonna be pretty low. Alternatively, let me quote from someone who has the perfect response to this:

    @blakeyrat said:

    QUICK CALL IT DUMB BEFORE YOU'VE EVEN SEEN IT
    WORKING! Whatever you do don't open your mind to new ideas! You haven't
    seen this before, it MUST be EVIL!!

    (footnote to other posters: this quotation is Blakey satirising the typical poster reaction - it does not reflect his typical opinion nor behaviour.)

    Then again, I'm comparing it to other Java apps spewed forth from the Penis Of Oracle, so my criteria may already be flawed. I was reading it as a "good app with a GUI", not "an app with a good GUI", mind.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Java was sold as a way of making cross-platform GUI apps. It was built for that purpose. (Not exclusively for that purpose, but still.)

    Yeah.. but it didn't have to be good at it. And, looking at the way AWT works (or doesn't) it's clear the results didn't justify the hype.

    In terms of the last comment - I'd say it was more marketed as a way of making cross-platform GUI apps to try and identify a benefit of using Java over other cross-platform languages (read: C), but at the time an XWindows skin on a Win95 desktop looked utter shite.



  • @Cassidy said:

    I was reading it as a "good app with a GUI", not "an app with a good GUI", mind.

    Yeah, the later is what blakey was refering to (or I assume so as most of the things he complains about are user interface things).



  • You assume correct - he does, because he's a UI Rat.

    (and they may be complaints, but they're still pretty valid at the best of times.)



  • @Cassidy said:

    Hmm.. I said earlier that I store it as XML, so that I could render it into HTML and PDF because that's what people want. And you then said "Save As"...

    ... oh, never mind. I guess you're agreeing with me in a roundabout way.

    So the fact that resume data MUST be stored in XML is SO INGRAINED in your mind that you can't even IMAGINE a world where someone might, example, write their resume out in Word (which can, shock, Save As HTML and PDF) in the first place? "A resume NOT in XML? What kind of crazy nightmarish fantasy world is this!"

    THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS STORING YOUR RESUME IN XML IN THE FIRST PLACE IS DUMB when you could have just written it in Word, or Pages, or any of a hundred word processing or desktop publishing applications and just saving it in whatever format the interviewer ACTUALLY WANTS. Because, again, I can guarantee he doesn't want XML.

    @Cassidy said:

    (and Blizzard beforehand, according to the article's comments)

    According to ME, according to MY COMMENTS. MINE. Damn you.

    @Cassidy said:

    You can say that with confidence, but without using it your level of confidence is gonna be pretty low.

    It says "Oracle" right in the name. My level of confidence is hovering right up there around the 99.9% mark-- it's theoretically possible that Oracle has made a good GUI program, it's also theoretically possible that Oracle made a good GUI program using Java. But it's far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, impossibly far, more likely that Cassidy is full of crap.

    @Cassidy said:

    I was reading it as a "good app with a GUI", not "an app with a good GUI", mind.

    What? If a GUI app has a shitty GUI, it's a shitty app.

    @Cassidy said:

    Yeah.. but it didn't have to be good at it. And, looking at the way AWT works (or doesn't) it's clear the results didn't justify the hype.

    Obviously, and yet here we are a 15 years later and people are still flogging this shit. "Oh we'll just write the GUI in Java." Wrong. Wrong. No. Wrong. Stop. WRONG. BAD. GO AWAY.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    So the fact that resume data MUST be stored in XML is SO INGRAINED in your mind that you can't even IMAGINE a world where someone might, example, write their resume out in Word (which can, shock, Save As HTML and PDF) in the first place? "A resume NOT in XML? What kind of crazy nightmarish fantasy world is this!"

    I can easily imagine a world where someone may write it out in Word. However, you seem to have difficulty in imaging a world where someone DOESN'T use Word to write it out, but stores the data in XML. And the point of them doing this was so that it can be transformed into HTML and PDF...

    @blakeyrat said:

    THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS STORING YOUR RESUME IN XML IN THE FIRST PLACE IS DUMB when you could have just written it in Word, or Pages, or any of a hundred word processing or desktop publishing applications and just saving it in whatever format the interviewer ACTUALLY WANTS. Because, again, I can guarantee he doesn't want XML.

    .. so that the interviewer can view the HTML and PDF, because he doesn't want the XML. Yes. I think we've finally arrived.

    <interlude attempt="clarify">

    I think you've made a number of assumptions here:

    • I have a copy of (and use) Word - I don't.
    • I make the XML data available to pimps and interviewers - I don't. It gets run through a transformation, depending upon which of two links on my website are clicked, showing it in XHTML or PDF. In order to do that, I need to store the data in XML.

    </interlude>

    Hope that may clear up any confusion and put presumptions to bed.

    @blakeyrat said:

    @Cassidy said:
    (and Blizzard beforehand, according to the article's comments)

    According to ME, according to MY COMMENTS. MINE. Damn you.

    Your comments?

    @M242 said:

    I used to work for Vivendi, when we owned Blizzard (the plot thickens...)

    So you're "M242"! I'd never have thought that someone ranting about the evils of storing data in XML would produce such a site!

    @blakeyrat said:

    It says "Oracle" right in the name.

    Yeah.... I know someone who had the same opinion, but it was "Microsoft" in the name. Unlike you, they were very closed-minded, blinkered and stubbornly refused to change their opinion!



  • @Cassidy said:

    Your comments?

    Yes. Look at the timestamp.

    @Cassidy said:

    Yeah.... I know someone who had the same opinion, but it was "Microsoft" in the name. Unlike you, they were very closed-minded, blinkered and stubbornly refused to change their opinion!

    Look. Oracle = shit. I use Oracle products every day. Java = shit. I've used hundreds of Java products, and for the last month I've been using a Java product every day. Oracle + Java is going to = shit.

    I've never even seen a Java program that wasn't shit, except perhaps Android if you count that, and you're telling me that not only have you experienced a non-shit Java program, but it was made by Oracle!? Pull the other one.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Cassidy said:
    Your comments?

    Yes. Look at the timestamp.

    Aha. You've read "article comments" as "forum post" -  I didn't even know you'd written one. Will read back further.

    @blakeyrat said:

    ...and you're telling me that not only have you experienced a non-shit Java program, but it was made by Oracle!? Pull the other one.

    No, I actually said I didn't think SQL Developer was too bad. And I tried to quantify it by comparing its predecessors. I'm guessing in your case you use some products I don't which puts it well in the shade (you've probably guessed I'm not a big Microsoft user), but that probably indicates I have a more tolerant level for shitware. 



  • @Cassidy said:

    In terms of good GUI apps... I don't think Oracle's SQL Developer is too bad as an app.

    @blakeyrat said:

    I've never used it, but I can confidently say you're wrong.

    SQL Developer is definitely in the "not bad" category. Especially for being free. With the right plugins, you can even work on an Oracle and SQL Server database concurrently.

    Also, if you're like me, and duck into SSMS a lot, the hot keys are almost the same so you don't come away from a day of work with a massive headache because your brain was rewiring its synapses related to how hot keys work.

    All that being said though, I'm a dyed in the wool ...ugh... SQL Navigator user.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Java =  shit.

    No, the Java language = shit. The JRE is a pretty damn cool set of software.


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