Nazis aren't good with data types



  • So a bunch of German activists decided to see if they can get their hands on some information about Neo-Nazis, and, well, it turned out that Nazis aren't very good at IT security. The information has been publicised on this website (which may or may not be online right now, it's been getting a little more traffic than it can handle). Included is what seems to be a database dump from the Nationales Versandhaus, which I understand is kind of like Amazon for Neo-Nazis.

    Look through the column storing phone numbers. "4,36991E+12"? WTF, am I right?

     

     

    Mod: links de-linked, because that's just in bad taste. -dh



  • @Yukabacera said:

    (...)

    Look through the column storing phone numbers. "4,36991E+12"? WTF, am I right?
     

    That's not the biggest issue here...



  • @The poop of DOOM said:

    That's not the biggest issue here...

     

    Yes, from the last column its obvious, that the real nazis need more grammar/spelling nazis in there online communities.

     

    The sad thing about the telephone number colum is, that the numbers seem to get converted to scientific notation only if the customer cared enough to give the country code (but was to lazy to add spaces/punctuation).

     



  • @m said:

    The sad thing about the telephone number colum is, that the numbers seem to get converted to scientific notation only if the customer cared enough to give the country code (but was to lazy to add spaces/punctuation).

    I wonder if that was the original data or an artifact of the conversion. I suspect the latter. Given all of the spaces, slashes and dashes, it looks like the original data stored the numbers as text, and I would guess that at some point the data passed through a leaker's copy of Excel.



  • Mod: links de-linked, because that's just in bad taste. -dh

    Yeah, sorry; I wasn't sure if that was acceptable given how easy it is to find the data.

    I wonder if that was the original data or an artifact of the conversion. I suspect the latter. Given all of the spaces, slashes and dashes, it looks like the original data stored the numbers as text, and I would guess that at some point the data passed through a leaker's copy of Excel.

    Good point, actually. Anti-right activists aren't good with data types?



  • @Yukabacera said:

    So a bunch of German activists decided to see if they can get their hands on some information about Neo-Nazis

    That sounds like something Hitler would do!



  • @Yukabacera said:

    Anti-right activists aren't good with data types?

    OK, now I shall chime in with the pedantic dickweedery that nazis are really more creatures of the left than the right. But either way, we're oversimplifying things, so instead of a stale political flame war, I propose that we discuss...

    <blink><marquee>Balls of twine!</marquee></blink>



  • @boomzilla said:

    Balls of twine!

    You know, I've been trying to think up of a good toy for my kittens that my dog won't devour or destroy. For some reason, a good old ball of twine never crossed my mind. Thanks for the great idea!



  •  When playing with the kitten, I wrap my hand in an old tea towel for protection and the little guy can just chew all he wants.

    The older cat, however, has bigger claws and is quite a bit stronger and faster. She goes right through that towel and potentially turns my hand into thin strips of raw bacon. I'd like to use an old oven mitten for that, but since I tactically used one as armour in a struggle for power (which I won handily), she's kind of afraid of oven mitts.

     Besides, they're not as flexible, and thus not very fun to play with.



  •  @boomzilla said:

    @Yukabacera said:
    Anti-right activists aren't good with data types?

    Balls of twine!

     

    Aaaah Sam & Max. Now that was a great game. I don't mean the Telltale "reinvention", the original from the 90s.



  • @m said:

    Yes, from the last column its obvious, that the real nazis need more grammar/spelling nazis in there online communities.

    *their



  • @dhromed said:

    When playing with the kitten, I wrap my hand in an old tea towel for protection and the little guy can just chew all he wants.
    REAL MEN play with kittens bare-handed.



  • @boomzilla said:


    OK, now I shall chime in with the pedantic dickweedery that nazis are really more creatures of the left than the right.

    That's not pedantic dickweedery, since pedantry has to be correct.  That's just wishful thinking.




  •  The matter of Excel screwing up data is something I have to deal with constantly at work... office-worker types constantly insist on opening up perfectly good CSV files in Excel and saving them out again, resulting in damage ranging from mild (like strippnig out leading zeroes in zip codes) to utterly destructive (when things like phone numbers and account numbers get converted into exponential notation).



  • @DaveK said:

    @boomzilla said:
    OK, now I shall chime in with the pedantic dickweedery that nazis are really more creatures of the left than the right.

    That's not pedantic dickweedery, since pedantry has to be correct.  That's just wishful thinking.

    No, it's actually correct, unless you also consider communists and socialists to be on the right, in which case we're just disagreeing on what we mean about right vs left.



  • @boomzilla said:

    No, it's actually correct, unless you also consider communists and socialists to be on the right, in which case we're just disagreeing on what we mean about right vs left.

    The political spectrum is easier described as polar rather than linear. It's kind of like going east or west at the north or south pole. At the extremes, the differences between left and right break down. Or rather, they are diminished in comparison with the harrowing mountains of authoritarianism.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @DaveK said:
    @boomzilla said:
    OK, now I shall chime in with the pedantic dickweedery that nazis are really more creatures of the left than the right.

    That's not pedantic dickweedery, since pedantry has to be correct.  That's just wishful thinking.

    No, it's actually correct, unless you also consider communists and socialists to be on the right, in which case we're just disagreeing on what we mean about right vs left.

    Just because they called themselves "National Socialists" doesn't mean they actually were socialists; in fact, as you may have heard, the Nazis told lies quite a lot, and that was one of them.  I'm using what I always thought were the standard definitions of left-wing and right-wing: left means you favour an egalitarian society with support for the disadvantaged and the amelioration of the unjustified inequalities inherent in society; right means you support a hierarchical society with the wealthy and privileged at the top and believe this reflects some "natural order" or "inherent superiority" or "good breeding".  The Nazis were not socialist and certainly didn't believe in equal treatment and rights for all in society; they were a coporatist-statist party, initially supported and funded by wealthy industrialists and multinational corporations, who believed in a natural superiority of some races over other based on a theory of blood and heritage.

    In other words, the Nazis were undeniably a right-wing grouping, and you just don't like it because you see yourself as a right-winger and are embarrassed by being associated with them, so you develop some sort of wish-fulfillment line of twisted ass-backward logic in which you claim that they must be left-wing because you don't like them and you don't like left-wingers so they must be the same because they can't be anything like you.  You're seriously in denial, and for no good reason.  "Right-wing" is a broad term, for crying out loud, just because there are some extremists at the end of the spectrum doesn't mean you have to get all defensive!




  • @DaveK said:

    I'm using what I always thought were the standard definitions of left-wing and right-wing: left means you favour an egalitarian society with support for the disadvantaged and the amelioration of the unjustified inequalities inherent in society; right means you support a hierarchical society with the wealthy and privileged at the top and believe this reflects some "natural order" or "inherent superiority" or "good breeding". 

    Hrm... I like the American definitions better, which convolve progressive/conservative and federalist/anti-federalist politics. With these extra ideas in place, rightist policies favor a smaller, less interfering government (at the cost of social justice / government-sponsored social programs) whereas leftist policies favor social justice (at the cost of slim government with checked powers). But of course, we all know that mainstream politicians want the increased power to interfere as given by leftists as well as the hands-off involvement of rightists, and will use whichever upside gets them the votes.



  • @DaveK said:

    Just because they called themselves "National Socialists" doesn't mean they actually were socialists; in fact, as you may have heard, the Nazis told lies quite a lot, and that was one of them.

    Well, you can imagine that to be so, but you're still wrong. I mean, I guess I could agree that they don't fit the technical definition of "publicly owning the means of production," but how is that meaningfully different from controlling the owners using government force? If that's all you're getting at, I'll concede a technical victory to you by way of pedantic dickweedery once you concede that it's a distinction without a difference.

    @DaveK said:

    I'm using what I always thought were the standard definitions of left-wing and right-wing: left means you favour an egalitarian society with support for the disadvantaged and the amelioration of the unjustified inequalities inherent in society; right means you support a hierarchical society with the wealthy and privileged at the top and believe this reflects some "natural order" or "inherent superiority" or "good breeding".

    I think that both leftists and rightists often display the egalitarian, etc, etc, stuff, but the main difference tends to be whether you believe that the way to achieve it is by some sort of government control or planning. And really, that's the key. The "wealthy and privileged," hierarchy, etc can be found in factions on both sides of right and left, so it's not really a very good discriminator. In other words, more or less similarity to the classical liberalism of, say 19th century Britain vs the welfare state of Bismark and the planned economies of mid 20th century Europe.

    @DaveK said:

    The Nazis were not socialist and certainly didn't believe in equal treatment and rights for all in society; they were a coporatist-statist party, initially supported and funded by wealthy industrialists and multinational corporations, who believed in a natural superiority of some races over other based on a theory of blood and heritage.</p

    In other words, the Nazis were undeniably a right-wing grouping...

    No, I definitely do deny them sharing a right wing label. Perhaps this is a difference between American and European(ish) definitions of right and left. Corporatism is pretty socialist. Whether the government owns companies or simply directs them without ownership is very much a left wing / statist way of doing things.

    @DaveK said:

    ...and you just don't like it because you see yourself as a right-winger and are embarrassed by being associated with them, so you develop some sort of wish-fulfillment line of twisted ass-backward logic in which you claim that they must be left-wing because you don't like them and you don't like left-wingers so they must be the same because they can't be anything like you.  You're seriously in denial, and for no good reason.

    By your definition of right and left, I would be more left than right.

    @DaveK said:

    "Right-wing" is a broad term, for crying out loud, just because there are some extremists at the end of the spectrum doesn't mean you have to get all defensive!

    Your definition of left vs right is pretty meaningless, and at least in the US, isn't really how most people would define them, though the idea that Nazis are right wing, and therefore more like Republicans than Democrats (e.g.) is just silly, and basically just demonstrates historical ignorance. To be sure, both parties have a strong Progressive (the early 20th century American analog to Italian facists, German National Socialists, which in many ways were offshoots of communists and socialists of the day) streak.



  • Must ....resist.... urge... to.... reply

    So anyhow, how is the wheather doing?



  • @Xyro said:

    Hrm... I like the American definitions better, which convolve progressive/conservative and federalist/anti-federalist politics. With these extra ideas in place, rightist policies favor a smaller, less interfering government (at the cost of social justice / government-sponsored social programs) whereas leftist policies favor social justice (at the cost of slim government with checked powers).

    It sounds to me like you're actually describing the authoritarian-libertarian axis there.  I don't think that's the same thing as left-vs-right.




  • No, see, everyone, you're missing a whole dimension here! Well, OK, not a WHOLE one, but a HALF a dimension... if there is such a thing...



    Essentially, politics is not BIpolar, but instead TRIpolar - think of it like barycentric coordinates as used in 3D graphics - or, if that doesn't make any sense, the balance of the Triforce from the Zelda games...



    Pole #1: Authoritarianism - "We will soon rule the world, and there's nothing you can do to stop us! Wa ha ha!" Groups leaning toward this extreme include the Nazis, the Galactic Empire from Star Wars, and the USA as of late.



    Pole #2: Self-Determinance - "We want what's best for us; we'll do whatever it takes to get it, no matter the cost!" Groups leaning toward this extreme include the early USA, the Rebel Alliance from Star Wars, and al-Qaeda.



    Pole #3: Isolationism - "Just leave us alone! Yeah, bug off! Seriously! You think we're a threat to you or something? Hah, as if!" Groups leaning toward this extreme include the USA pre-WWI, the Spathi from Star Control, and the Jews throughout pretty much all of history.



  • @Xyro said:

    @boomzilla said:
    Balls of twine!
    You know, I've been trying to think up of a good toy for my kittens that my dog won't devour or destroy. For some reason, a good old ball of twine never crossed my mind. Thanks for the great idea!

    My solution for this is to only get kittens your dog will devour or destroy.



  • @DaveK said:

    @Xyro said:

    Hrm... I like the American definitions better, which convolve progressive/conservative and federalist/anti-federalist politics. With these extra ideas in place, rightist policies favor a smaller, less interfering government (at the cost of social justice / government-sponsored social programs) whereas leftist policies favor social justice (at the cost of slim government with checked powers).

    It sounds to me like you're actually describing the authoritarian-libertarian axis there.  I don't think that's the same thing as left-vs-right.


    In my experience, at least in the part of the American south where I live, the connotations get severely mixed up. To oversimplify the situation greatly: many supporters of the party that most people see as the right side of the left-right deliniation tend to identify themselves (and therefore the opposing side conversely) based mostly on the libertarian side of the authoritarian-libertarian axis, and get severely upset when "tarred with the same brush" as other supporters of that party who are social bigots or who fit the non-egalitarian "right" distinction you outlined earlier. On the other hand, many supporters of the party that is mostly seen as "left" identify themselves (and therefore the "right" conversely) based mostly on the egalitarian notion of "left" you were talking about, but are much less commonly unhappy about being seen as authoritarian than their counterparts are about being seen as inegalitarian. The result is that compared to my understanding of what the left-right axis is expected to mean in non-American contexts, the one around here seems to be bent at around a 70 degree angle.

    ...For the sake of disclosure, I say this as someone who has (despite actually favoring the official platform of a third party more than either of the two major ones) found himself in that first "severely upset" category, and acknowledge that I may be biased in the above description; in particular, it is probably at least as likely that I haven't noticed Democrats being unhappy about being seen as authoritarians as it is that I really haven't encountered any who are.



  • Indeed, the pressure to fit so many ideals and methods of calculus into a single diametric dichotomy is part of the very problem with politics.

    (Not that adding another popular party or two would really fix that.)

    It may also depend on what you align yourself to as to how you interpret the parties. I vote as conservative libertarian, so I tend to see Democrats as fiscally ignorant busybodies who think the best way to help someone is to make them dependent upon the government. Democrats are labeled as leftist, but wouldn't well fit into DaveK's definition. Likewise, the notion of hierarchical authoritarianism, at least as applied to the government (as opposed to business or family), would not fit comfortably on a Republican platform - according to Republicans anyway. Their opponents may disagree; for example, I reckon opponents see the pro-life support as heinously rightist by DaveK's definition.

    Even granting DaveK's definition as-is, I wouldn't think it's particularly applicability to American politics. It's better used in a scale of extremes than in practical politics. (At least I assume the extremes of European politics are in fact extremes and not mainstream.) But it hardly matters when the politicians don't stand by these definitions anyway. With full Republican control a few years ago, the government's sized increased instead of decreased and individual freedoms began to get attacked. And with full Democrat control the government passed though basically no useful social programs (or "Hope" or "Change") during an eclipsing economy. It's the worst of both worlds!!



  • From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.



  • @dhromed said:

    From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.

     

    There really isn't a whole lot of room on the American political spectrum, thanks to obesity.

     



  • @dhromed said:

    From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.

    What would an American left wing look like?



  • @Xyro said:

    @dhromed said:
    From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.

    What would an American left wing look like?

    Covered in spicy sauce? That's how I like my wings.



  • @Xyro said:

    What would an American left wing look like?
    The wing of a Bald Eagle, duh.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Xyro said:
    @dhromed said:
    From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.

    What would an American left wing look like?

    Covered in spicy sauce? That's how I like my wings.

    ...That's probably a better guess than I could make.



  •  Happy New Year everybody, and welcome to the "Dumbest thing anyone said to me on the Internet" award, 2012.  This year's winner was said to me back in January, and even though the year had only just begun, I knew a real contender when I saw it.  Sure enough, the year is now over, and nothing anyone else has said has even come close, so without further ado, here's that winning quote:

    @boomzilla said:

    @DaveK said:
    Just because they called themselves "National Socialists" doesn't mean they actually were socialists; in fact, as you may have heard, the Nazis told lies quite a lot, and that was one of them.

    Well, you can imagine that to be so, but you're still wrong. I mean, I guess I could agree that they don't fit the technical definition of "publicly owning the means of production," but how is that meaningfully different from controlling the owners using government force? If that's all you're getting at, I'll concede a technical victory to you by way of pedantic dickweedery once you concede that it's a distinction without a difference.


     Well, let me say, the judges were just bowled over with this one.  In a discussion about whether or not the Nazis were Socialists, to claim that the argument that they didn't subscribe to or promulgate the principles, practices or philosophy of Socialism is mere "pedantry" has to score at least eleven out of ten for sheer chutzpah.  To then combine that with the textbook fallacy that "Socialists did X, the Nazis did X, therefore the Nazis are Socialists" left this a clear winner, streets ahead of all competitors.

     Nationalisation is of course a political strategy, used through the ages by governments of many stripes for many and differing reasons, and in no way the defining characteristic of Socialism, which requires that the workers own/control the means of production.  The Nazis of course did not support the concept that the proletariat should own or control anything, as evidenced by the fact that they sent all the trade unionists to the death camps to be murdered.  They did indeed nationalise a few limited industries in service of the war goals of the Nazi political elite, but they were funded by and politically sided with industrialists and tycoons, and defined themselves by their opposition to any form of Socialism, Communism, or other left-wing politics, right from their early days as street thugs attacking political demonstrations.

     So, my heartiest congratulations to Boomzilla, who took this year's prize in the face of stiff opposition from Blakeyrat and many others, and good luck to all who wish to compete for the 2013 award.  Let's see if we can't come up with some real dumb shit for next year!

     



  •  "I'm probably still going to be writing 2012 on my checks until March."

     "You still write paper checks?"



  • @DaveK said:

    So, my heartiest congratulations to Boomzilla, who took this year's prize in the face of stiff opposition from Blakeyrat and many others, and good luck to all who wish to compete for the 2013 award.  Let's see if we can't come up with some real dumb shit for next year!

    I'd like to thank DaveK for this award. I'll try to keep the streak alive by saying that I'm still right and DaveK is still wrong!

    Thanks, and I hope to see everyone back here next year!



  • @serguey123 said:

    So anyhow, how is the wheather doing?

    Too cold. But the most annoying thing of winter for me is that it gets dark at 6pm. I like sunlight dammit.



  • @spamcourt said:

    Too cold. But the most annoying thing of winter for me is that it gets dark at 6pm. I like sunlight dammit.
     

    6?

    Luxurious?

    4:30pm  here.



  • @erikal said:

    Aaaah Sam & Max. Now that was a great game. I don't mean the Telltale "reinvention", the original from the 90s.

    The Moleman's theme still plays in my head sometimes.

    For reference, here's the in-game version and the CD version.

    Also, the background music of The World's Largest Ball of Twine.

     



  • @DaveK said:

     Happy New Year everybody, and welcome to the "Dumbest thing anyone said to me on the Internet" award, 2012.  This year's winner was said to me back in January, and even though the year had only just begun, I knew a real contender when I saw it.  Sure enough, the year is now over, and nothing anyone else has said has even come close, so without further ado, here's that winning quote:

    @boomzilla said:

    @DaveK said:
    Just because they called themselves "National Socialists" doesn't mean they actually were socialists; in fact, as you may have heard, the Nazis told lies quite a lot, and that was one of them.

    Well, you can imagine that to be so, but you're still wrong. I mean, I guess I could agree that they don't fit the technical definition of "publicly owning the means of production," but how is that meaningfully different from controlling the owners using government force? If that's all you're getting at, I'll concede a technical victory to you by way of pedantic dickweedery once you concede that it's a distinction without a difference.


     Well, let me say, the judges were just bowled over with this one.  In a discussion about whether or not the Nazis were Socialists, to claim that the argument that they didn't subscribe to or promulgate the principles, practices or philosophy of Socialism is mere "pedantry" has to score at least eleven out of ten for sheer chutzpah.  To then combine that with the textbook fallacy that "Socialists did X, the Nazis did X, therefore the Nazis are Socialists" left this a clear winner, streets ahead of all competitors.

     Nationalisation is of course a political strategy, used through the ages by governments of many stripes for many and differing reasons, and in no way the defining characteristic of Socialism, which requires that the workers own/control the means of production.  The Nazis of course did not support the concept that the proletariat should own or control anything, as evidenced by the fact that they sent all the trade unionists to the death camps to be murdered.  They did indeed nationalise a few limited industries in service of the war goals of the Nazi political elite, but they were funded by and politically sided with industrialists and tycoons, and defined themselves by their opposition to any form of Socialism, Communism, or other left-wing politics, right from their early days as street thugs attacking political demonstrations.

     So, my heartiest congratulations to Boomzilla, who took this year's prize in the face of stiff opposition from Blakeyrat and many others, and good luck to all who wish to compete for the 2013 award.  Let's see if we can't come up with some real dumb shit for next year!

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

     

    What the hell is that shitty font?


     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dhromed said:

    @spamcourt said:

    Too cold. But the most annoying thing of winter for me is that it gets dark at 6pm. I like sunlight dammit.
     

    6?

    Luxurious?

    4:30pm  here.

    Heh. 1550 here.





    And I think I need to find something different for my sig since the world didn't end on the 21st...



  • @PJH said:

    And I think I need to find something different for my sig
     

    Time until the projected year for the fully functional ITER fusion reactor.



  • @PJH said:

    And I think I need to find something different for my sig since the world didn't end on the 21st...
     

    1 day...

    ... until everyone abruptly starts referring to today as yesterday.



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    @PJH said:

    And I think I need to find something different for my sig since the world didn't end on the 21st...
     

    1 day...

    ... until everyone abruptly starts referring to today as yesterday.

    And those jerks in Australia are already didn't even wait!



  • @DaveK said:

     Happy New Year everybody, and welcome to the "Dumbest thing anyone said to me on the Internet" award, 2012.  This year's winner was said to me back in January, and even though the year had only just begun, I knew a real contender when I saw it.  Sure enough, the year is now over, and nothing anyone else has said has even come close, so without further ado, here's that winning quote:



  • @dhromed said:

    Besides, they're not as flexible, and thus not very fun to play with.

    Non-flexible cats? Got a taxidermy kit for christmas?



  • @blakeyrat said:


    Heh.  Hey Blakey, here's a question for you: What's the secret of good comedy?



  • @DaveK said:

    Hey Blakey, here's a question for you: What's the secret of good comedy?

    Everything I say is funny.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @DaveK said:
    Hey Blakey, here's a question for you: What's the secret of good comedy?

    Everything I say is funny.

     

    That's funny.



  • @Xyro said:

    @dhromed said:
    From what I can tell, there is no left wing in America. Just centrists and the conservative right.

    What would an American left wing look like?
     

    Demolition man.



  • @serguey123 said:

    Must ....resist.... urge... to.... reply

    So anyhow, how is the wheather doing?

    The ball of twine outside my window is dry, so it's apparently not raining, and the free end is flapping all over the place which I guess means it's windy.


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