The Wrath of Korn



  • I was looking for a way around sound memory exhaustion problems I was seeing while abusing GREP, and I stumbled upon this gem:



    LINK



    Apparently a Microsoft support technician had the gall to ask some questions on the Cygwin mailing list. Dave Korn (PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) might seem like the sort of person who would remain above the fray (at least when using his own name ūüėČ but apparently this is not the case. Some highlights:


    1. Sarcastically trying to sell the Microsoft tech a support plan
    2. Accusing him of using Borland GREP (from Cygwin? and lying about it?)
    3. Berating him for typing "grep: memory exhausted" instead of pasting it in (and, you know, trashing the case of the error message)
    4. Posting a screen image in an effort to demonstrate that he had in fact Googled something



      Ha! It's not WWIII, but only because the poor Microsoft flunky isn't shooting back!


  • Geeze, that is really fucking uncool-- stealing his username from our [url="http://forums.thedailywtf.com/members/DaveK.aspx"]DaveK[/url].

     



  • ¬†

    by Dave Korn-6 Apr 15, 2009; 03:37pm

    Shailesh Dadure wrote:

    > GREP: Memory Exhausted

    Andy Hall wrote:

    > grep: memory exhausted

      Letters in an error message don't just randomly change between upper and
    lower case for no reason.  Either you two are using different versions of
    grep, or Shailesh did not accurately report the *actual* error message that he
    was *actually* seeing.

      Perhaps this would be a good occasion to remind everyone of the first rule
    of bug-reporting:

      "Cut and paste it.  Don't retype it by hand, because you WILL screw up.
    Every single time.  Guaranteed."

        cheers,
          DaveK
    Wow.¬† That takes Pedantic Dickweedery¬ģ to a whole new level.


  • ¬†When it comes to searching source code to find out where the error is, case is important. It's just a example of the disconnect between Unix and Windows philosophy. Searching for the error message as he entered it (cutting and pasting, or course, to elimiate errors), would have shown no (or incorrect) matches. So Dave mentioned it. Taking offense to such a mention shows a lack of knowledge of mailing list ettequite. The poster needed educating, and education provided.

    {edit} In this case, the incorrect case lead the investigator to suspect that they might not be using GNU grep, which had to be answered.{/edit}

    And surely you've experienced Microsoft long enough to get annoyed by the 'pay me to blink' philosophy. He just gave a little payback.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    I thought the rule was copy and paste it, not cut and paste. Oh, did he retype that by hand?



  • @robbak said:

    When it comes to searching source code to find out where the error is, case is important. It's just a example of the disconnect between Unix and Windows philosophy. Searching for the error message as he entered it (cutting and pasting, or course, to elimiate errors), would have shown no (or incorrect) matches. So Dave mentioned it.
    Bullshit.

    The person wasn't talking about searching source code.  The person was talking about an error message that was displayed. @robbak said:

    The poster needed educating, and education provided.
    Wrong.  The only thing the person got was Dave Korn being an asshole.@robbak said:
    And surely you've experienced Microsoft long enough to get annoyed by the 'pay me to blink' philosophy. He just gave a little payback.
    I've been using Microsoft products since the early days of DOS.  If you don't like Microsoft, that's your business.  Sometimes I'm not too thrilled with them either.  However, what Microsoft charges or doesn't charge is irrelevant to the discussion.  Rather than give some sort of reasonable answer to the question, Dave Korn was simply being an asshole.

    @robbak said:

    {edit} In this case, the incorrect case lead the
    investigator to suspect that they might not be using GNU grep, which had
    to be answered.{/edit}
    There is no "they".  The original post said "Memory Exhausted".  That's the subject being asked about.  Then, later, somebody else says "Hey, I've run into that also" but posts it as lower case "memory exhausted".   Rather than answer the original question, Dave Korn took it upon himself to indulge in some really exceptional assholery.



  • @bridget99 said:

    Dave Korn (PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more)

    I don't care who he is, he's a fucking asshole. And you're an asshole for thinking the WTF is the Microsoft engineer. (Whose question is perfectly well-worded, polite, and probably includes enough information to diagnose the problem.)

    The funny thing is he's the ONLY one on the list* who's being an asshole, everybody else is quite reasonable. Corinna Vinschen is rude, but gives useful information. Greg Chicares is again rude, but actually fucking provides the information Corinna said existed, but was too fucking lazy to provide herself. Andy Hall confirms it's a common bug. Etc.

    Only Korn is being a dick instead of just slightly rude. I'm mildly surprised nobody posted "har har Micro$uck Windoz‚ā¨ limits processes to 2 GB of memory!"

    ūüėČ Except Ralph Hempel, who extended his lame joke to make it even lamer. He was probably just sucking up to his "hero".

    Here's a completely off-topic mini-WTF: when installing DC Universe Online, one of the launch processes Steam runs is named "fix_timestamps.exe". It takes a significant time to run... I can only the imagine the WTFs behind that one!



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @robbak said:
    When it comes to searching source code to find out where the error is, case is important. It's just a example of the disconnect between Unix and Windows philosophy. Searching for the error message as he entered it (cutting and pasting, or course, to elimiate errors), would have shown no (or incorrect) matches. So Dave mentioned it.

    Bullshit.

    The person wasn't talking about searching source code.  The person was talking about an error message that was displayed.


    Have you never searched source for the text of an error message to get a better idea of what caused it?



  • @bridget99 said:

    I was looking for a way around sound memory exhaustion problems I was seeing while abusing GREP, and I stumbled upon this gem:



    LINK



    Apparently a Microsoft support technician had the gall to ask some questions on the Cygwin mailing list. Dave Korn (PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) might seem like the sort of person who would remain above the fray (at least when using his own name ūüėČ but apparently this is not the case.

    I think you owe David Korn (David not Dave, PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) an apology for your ill-informed accusation.  It's a good thing we aren't called John Smith, you would have had a melt-down when you see how many things he's done on the internet.

    As for your remaining complaints: 1) Oh no, how terrible, someone used some minor sarcasm! 2) "Accusing"?  That's a pretty biased way to describe just agreeing with someone who made the observation that it looked like it might not be Cygwin grep. 3) "Berating"?  Don't be so hypersensitive. 4) How else would you suggest demonstrating that you have visited certain pages in your browser?

    In conclusion: You're a big crybaby and YHBT.  Unlike the actual Microsoftie, who wasn't upset in the least.  Why do you feel it necessary to take offence on someone else's behalf when they obviously didn't feel so themselves?

     


  • ‚ôŅ

    I was actually amused by how the MS tech didn't know what a man page was. It was very much like blakeyrat, but with manners.



  • @pjt33 said:

    Have you never searched source for the text of an error message to get a better idea of what caused it?

    Have you never ticked the "case insensitive" checkbox?

     



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    Geeze, that is really fucking uncool-- stealing his username from our DaveK.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a43kowi2ncI




  • @DaveK said:

    @Lorne Kates said:

    Geeze, that is really fucking uncool-- stealing his username from our DaveK.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a43kowi2ncI

     

    AND NOW HE'S HACKED TDWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Here's a completely off-topic mini-WTF: when installing DC Universe Online, one of the launch processes Steam runs is named "fix_timestamps.exe". It takes a significant time to run... I can only the imagine the WTFs behind that one!
     

    From their FAQ:

    @Not From Their FAQ said:

    [b]Q:[/b] Why does the installer for DC Universe Online launch a process called "fix_timestamps.exe", which takes about 5 minutes to run.

    [b]A:[/b] It actually takes exactly five minutes to run. The installer incorrectly sets the timestamp of installed files behind by 5 minutes. fix_timestamps.exe gets the current time, sleeps for 5 minutes, then updates the files so they are correct.




  • @Lorne Kates said:

    A: It actually takes exactly five minutes to run. The installer incorrectly sets the timestamp of installed files behind by 5 minutes. fix_timestamps.exe gets the current time, sleeps for 5 minutes, then updates the files so they are correct.

     

     Is there no way in Windows to set a file's created timestamp to a future date (ignoring the "change the system/Windows clock" option)?  That seems like a silly way to do that.

    [edit] I should have Googled before asking... yes there is: System.IO.File.SetLastWriteTime [/edit]



  • ¬†So a unix dev is being an asshole to someone who needs help with Unix.¬† Where's the news?


  • ‚ôŅ

    @Master Chief said:

    So a unix dev is being an asshole to someone who needs help with Unix.  Where's the news?

    Oh, come on. That wasn't being an asshole. Unless we're talking about really super small values of asshole. Like the really small rocks that float. TRWTF is that MS was trying to support Cygwin.



  • The problem is it was on the Internet and there's no tone or body control. He might have been a dick, or maybe he was just sincerely trying to be funny since other people were already trying to help. I can see it going either way, but I'm leaning more towards the latter.



  • @pjt33 said:

    Have you never searched source for the text of an error message to get a better idea of what caused it?
     

    And how pray tell are you going to grep the source code of grep for the string 'Grep: Memory exhausted' when trying to run grep gives you an error message 'grep: Memory Exhausted'...?

     

     



  • @boomzilla said:

    I was actually amused by how the MS tech didn't know what a man page was. It was very much like blakeyrat, but with manners.
    +10, Like.



  • @mott555 said:

    The problem is it was on the Internet and there's no tone or body control. He might have been a dick, or maybe he was just sincerely trying to be funny since other people were already trying to help. I can see it going either way, but I'm leaning more towards the latter.

     

    What happened to the Edit Post button? I meant to say body language, not body control.

     



  • @Rootbeer said:

    @pjt33 said:
    Have you never searched source for the text of an error message to get a better idea of what caused it?

    And how pray tell are you going to grep the source code of grep for the string 'Grep: Memory exhausted' when trying to run grep gives you an error message 'grep: Memory Exhausted'...?

    You have inspired me to write the following:

    grep "grep database.bin 2>&1 dummystring" grep.c

    Self-pedantization: This won't actually work, since the error message contains variables like the value of argv[0].



  • @Xyro said:

    Self-pedantization:
     

    I don't think that's legal here. It takes away everyone else's fun.

     



  • @mott555 said:

    The problem is it was on the Internet and there's no tone or body control. He might have been a dick, or maybe he was just sincerely trying to be funny since other people were already trying to help. I can see it going either way, but I'm leaning more towards the latter.

    This.

    My girlfriend always thinks her friends are being bitchy/snippy with her via text message. Usually, when I look at the text, it's something like:

    "yeah"

    When you're reading text without emoticons or description (e.g. Dave was smiling as he said _____), obviously you have little to no context in which to judge the text. Consider the following:

    "yeah :("

    "yeah :)"

    "yeah :D"

    "yeah :p"

    "yeah :o"

    All have different meaning. Without the emoticon, most people will generally either read "yeah" as neutral or negative, even though it could be meant as positive.

    You gotta remember, some people are just bad writers. They mean to write things in a joking and/or lighthearted way, but because they don't know how to convey that, it comes off bitchy.

    I give Korn the benefit of the doubt.



  • @mott555 said:

    @Xyro said:
    Self-pedantization:
    I don't think that's legal here. It takes away everyone else's fun.

    Sorry, but my pedant mode is still enabled...

    @Xyro said:

    grep "grep database.bin 2>&1 dummystring" grep.c

    Whoa, what the heck, how did I switch those parameters around?

    grep "`grep dummystring database.bin 2>&1`" grep.c
    FTFM

    For that matter...

    grep "grep -q dummystring database.bin 2>&1" grep.c

    Better!



  • @DaveK said:

    I think you owe David Korn (David not Dave, PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) an apology for your ill-informed accusation.

    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that this David Korn is not the same David Korn who wrote the Korn shell? That would surprise me. How many people do you know named David Korn? How many of them do you think are intimately involved with development support for UNIX? I think the burden of proof is on you here. If I got a snarky e-mail from someone named Bill Gates at Microsoft, we'd all know who that was. Or, we would at least assume we knew who that was until corrected by someone in the know.

    What's next? Am I to believe that there is another guy named Herbert Schildt writing bad books about C? Is the "other" Steve Jobs alive and well in Apple's mail room? What you're implying makes no sense. If we take your little rant to its logical conclusion, names become meaningless, and it becomes impossible to criticize (or even comment on) anyone without knowing their Social Security Number.

    Incidentally, the David Korn who wrote the Korn shell most definitely does have a PhD and most certainly did name the shell after himself.

    And people who draw a distinction between "Dave" and "David" are picky little jerks. I used to work with a guy who made a point of being "Douglas" (not "Doug") and I must tell you, we all laughed at that guy relentlessly behind his back. He was a washed-up former cop with a bad mustache and some pretty thinly-disguised hang-ups... is that the image you're trying to project? That's what I'm perceiving here.

    @DaveK said:

    2) "Accusing"?  That's a pretty biased way to describe just agreeing with someone who made the observation that it looked like it might not be Cygwin grep.

    I don't know a nicer word to use for the situation where one person is making a claim ("I used Cygwin GREP") and a second person is calling it a falsehood.

    @DaveK said:

    4) How else would you suggest demonstrating that you have visited certain pages in your browser?

    I can't imagine wasting my time on that. I think it must have been a joke. It doesn't prove anything, anyway. He could have painted those links purple or (more likely) just clicked on them and then cancelled.

    @DaveK said:

    In conclusion: You're a big crybaby and YHBT

    I don't know what YHBT means, but I posted this because I thought it was amusing. I don't have any problem with Korn being sarcastic. To me, it's just like finding out that he puts his pants on one leg at a time. Your little rant above is meaner than anything "DaveK" did on that Cygwin board (albeit much less entertaining).

    @DaveK said:

    Unlike the actual Microsoftie, who wasn't upset in the least.

    That's not a complete sentence. But I have attempted to parse it as if it were valid English nonetheless. In response to what I assume your meaning to be, I feel certain the "Microsoftie" was less than pleased with the "support" he got. Of course, he's not going to engage in any kind of whining or retribution because he's visibly associated with his employer and he's trying to do his job.



  • @Nook Schreier said:

    @Lorne Kates said:

    A: It actually takes exactly five minutes to run. The installer incorrectly sets the timestamp of installed files behind by 5 minutes. fix_timestamps.exe gets the current time, sleeps for 5 minutes, then updates the files so they are correct.

     

     Is there no way in Windows to set a file's created timestamp to a future date (ignoring the "change the system/Windows clock" option)?  That seems like a silly way to do that.

    [edit] I should have Googled before asking... yes there is: System.IO.File.SetLastWriteTime [/edit]

    Are you for real? There isn't a "woosh" big enough for this guy.

    My guess is that Steam's packaging process somehow stamps all over the DC Universe Online timestamps, and unfixed DC Universe Online's auto-patcher would assume all of its files were out-of-date and re-download everything. Just a guess though.



  • @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    I think you owe David Korn (David not Dave, PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) an apology for your ill-informed accusation.

    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that this David Korn is not the same David Korn who wrote the Korn shell?

    I'm confused here as well. Or are you just saying we owe him an apology for calling him "Dave" instead of "David?"

    @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    In conclusion: You're a big crybaby and YHBT

    I don't know what YHBT means,

    You Hate Bibliography Technology.

    Or apparently Google says it means you have been trolled. Of course, anybody who's backing-up Korn being a total dick here is probably also not very concerned with clear communication, so keep on using those random acronyms nobody knows!



  • It's worth noting that, for all his trollish comments, Mr. Korn is apparently also the one who contacted the OP off-list and helped him actually track down the problem, which no one else did.



  • In case you guys haven't noticed, the whole Cygwin mailing list consists of almost exclusively pedantic dick-weedery. They've more or less stopped developing the damn product, and are instead harrasing and ridiculing bug reporters. It has in fact gone so far that they have a complete list of abbreviations for reasons to reject bug repors and ridicule reporters. The worst part is that thats pretty average for a Red Hat project.



  • @AerieC said:

    Without the emoticon, most people will generally either read "yeah" as neutral or negative, even though it could be meant as positive.
    yeah


  • ‚ôŅ

    @Obfuscator said:

    In case you guys haven't noticed, the whole Cygwin mailing list consists of almost exclusively pedantic dick-weedery. They've more or less stopped developing the damn product, and are instead harrasing and ridiculing bug reporters. It has in fact gone so far that they have a complete list of abbreviations for reasons to reject bug repors and ridicule reporters. The worst part is that thats pretty average for a Red Hat project.

    I'm not industrious enough to read through the list, but the list of acronyms you linked looks like mostly pretty common internet acronym slang, plus some stuff that is obviously specific to that list (inside jokes or people's initials, mostly). I'd say that your description of the acronym list is the worst kind of pedantic dickweedery: wrong.



  • @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    I think you owe David Korn (David not Dave, PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) an apology for your ill-informed accusation.

    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that this David Korn is not the same David Korn who wrote the Korn shell?

    I most certainly am.

    @bridget99 said:

    That would surprise me.

    A knee-jerk emotional response is not necessarily a good guide for estimating probabilities.

    @bridget99 said:

    How many people do you know named David Korn?

    Precisely one, and he's not the Unix guy!

    @bridget99 said:

    How many of them do you think are intimately involved with development support for UNIX?

    From what did you infer that this one is involved in UNIX, when it's a Cygwin mailing list?

    @bridget99 said:

    I think the burden of proof is on you here. If I got a snarky e-mail from someone named Bill Gates at Microsoft, we'd all know who that was. Or, we would at least assume we knew who that was until corrected by someone in the know.

    No shit, sherlock.  What's the address on that post?  Did it come from the email systems of AT&T, where David Korn works?  How would you feel if you got a snarky email from someone named Bill Gates not at Microsoft, but at some other random email provider?

    @bridget99 said:
    What's next? Am I to believe that there is another guy named Herbert Schildt writing bad books about C? Is the "other" Steve Jobs alive and well in Apple's mail room? What you're implying makes no sense. If we take your little rant to its logical conclusion, names become meaningless, and it becomes impossible to criticize (or even comment on) anyone without knowing their Social Security Number.

    Incidentally, the David Korn who wrote the Korn shell most definitely does have a PhD and most certainly did name the shell after himself.

    Yes, I know, that's what I said in the post that you're quoting, right there just after his name, in brackets.

    @bridget99 said:

    And people who draw a distinction between "Dave" and "David" are picky little jerks. I used to work with a guy who made a point of being "Douglas" (not "Doug") and I must tell you, we all laughed at that guy relentlessly behind his back. He was a washed-up former cop with a bad mustache and some pretty thinly-disguised hang-ups... is that the image you're trying to project? That's what I'm perceiving here.

    Don't be silly, it's just a convenient way to draw attention to the fact that the two are different people.  The AT&T-Unix-guy always calls himself David everywhere you see his name written.

    @bridget99 said:
    @DaveK said:
    2) "Accusing"?  That's a pretty biased way to describe just agreeing with someone who made the observation that it looked like it might not be Cygwin grep.

    I don't know a nicer word to use for the situation where one person is making a claim ("I used Cygwin GREP") and a second person is calling it a falsehood.

    Show where anyone called it a falsehood, because I don't see that anywhere.  People do make honest mistakes and end up running the wrong version of a program, you know; it's only your paranoid assumption that they weren't thinking the MS guy might have done that.

    @bridget99 said:
    @DaveK said:
    4) How else would you suggest demonstrating that you have visited certain pages in your browser?

    I can't imagine wasting my time on that. I think it must have been a joke. It doesn't prove anything, anyway. He could have painted those links purple or (more likely) just clicked on them and then cancelled.

    That's a ludicrously paranoid conspiracy theory.  Why shouldn't it just be real?

    @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    In conclusion: You're a big crybaby and YHBT

    I don't know what YHBT means, but I posted this because I thought it was amusing. I don't have any problem with Korn being sarcastic. To me, it's just like finding out that he puts his pants on one leg at a time. Your little rant above is meaner than anything "DaveK" did on that Cygwin board (albeit much less entertaining).

    Heh, knowing what I know, that's quite funny actually!

    @bridget99 said:
    @DaveK said:
    Unlike the actual Microsoftie, who wasn't upset in the least.

    That's not a complete sentence. But I have attempted to parse it as if it were valid English nonetheless. In response to what I assume your meaning to be, I feel certain the "Microsoftie" was less than pleased with the "support" he got. Of course, he's not going to engage in any kind of whining or retribution because he's visibly associated with his employer and he's trying to do his job.

    I'm sorry you have trouble parsing vernacular English, but that's a pretty common formation.  Try pretending the preceding full-stop is a comma; it's just been turned into a full stop for dramatic emphasis.




  • @blakeyrat said:

    @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    I think you owe David Korn (David not Dave, PhD, author of the eponymous UNIX shell and much more) an apology for your ill-informed accusation.

    I'm not sure what you mean. Are you implying that this David Korn is not the same David Korn who wrote the Korn shell?

    I'm confused here as well.

    Why am I not surprised?

    @blakeyrat said:

    Or are you just saying we owe him an apology for calling him "Dave" instead of "David?"

    I'm saying you owe him an apology because that wasn't him.

    @blakeyrat said:
    @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:

    In conclusion: You're a big crybaby and YHBT

    I don't know what YHBT means,

    You Hate Bibliography Technology.

    Or apparently Google says it means you have been trolled. Of course, anybody who's backing-up Korn being a total dick here is probably also not very concerned with clear communication, so keep on using those random acronyms nobody knows!

    *shrugs* You make a profession of not knowing things.  Even common internet acronyms. (note to bridget99: there's that tricky parse again.)



  • ‚ôŅ

    @DaveK said:

    @blakeyrat said:
    ...
    shrugs
    You make a profession of not knowing things

    This.



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Obfuscator said:
    In case you guys haven't noticed, the whole Cygwin mailing list consists of almost exclusively pedantic dick-weedery. They've more or less stopped developing the damn product, and are instead harrasing and ridiculing bug reporters. It has in fact gone so far that they have a complete list of abbreviations for reasons to reject bug repors and ridicule reporters. The worst part is that thats pretty average for a Red Hat project.

    I'm not industrious enough to read through the list, but the list of acronyms you linked looks like mostly pretty common internet acronym slang, plus some stuff that is obviously specific to that list (inside jokes or people's initials, mostly). I'd say that your description of the acronym list is the worst kind of pedantic dickweedery: wrong.

    IDTYRMTST. I mean, YOWTWYWT because YANALATEYHSMBSI. WIBGI you could PCYMTWLL? Do you know how? WCTYBTWHTKY. (YSHFRTT)



  • @boomzilla said:

    @Obfuscator said:
    In case you guys haven't noticed, the whole Cygwin mailing list consists of almost exclusively pedantic dick-weedery. They've more or less stopped developing the damn product, and are instead harrasing and ridiculing bug reporters. It has in fact gone so far that they have a complete list of abbreviations for reasons to reject bug repors and ridicule reporters. The worst part is that thats pretty average for a Red Hat project.

    I'm not industrious enough to read through the list, but the list of acronyms you linked looks like mostly pretty common internet acronym slang, plus some stuff that is obviously specific to that list (inside jokes or people's initials, mostly). I'd say that your description of the acronym list is the worst kind of pedantic dickweedery: wrong.

    Orly? I based what I said on observing the behaviour of the people on the list, and only pointed out the abbreviation list as a symptom of their twisted culture. Do a frequency analysis on that list and tell me the amount of helpful statements. You can also try to post something to the list and tell me the amount of help you get with configuring your mail client to fit their standards and how they will tell you you really are asking the wrong question. And I am basing this purely on observation, I haven't even bothered to ask the question I came there for. Why? Because 2 people asked it for me, and they both got sneezed off. Those guys really need a reality check.


  • ‚ôŅ

    @Obfuscator said:

    @boomzilla said:
    @Obfuscator said:
    In case you guys haven't noticed, the whole Cygwin mailing list consists of almost exclusively pedantic dick-weedery. They've more or less stopped developing the damn product, and are instead harrasing and ridiculing bug reporters. It has in fact gone so far that they have a complete list of abbreviations for reasons to reject bug repors and ridicule reporters. The worst part is that thats pretty average for a Red Hat project.

    I'm not industrious enough to read through the list, but the list of acronyms you linked looks like mostly pretty common internet acronym slang, plus some stuff that is obviously specific to that list (inside jokes or people's initials, mostly). I'd say that your description of the acronym list is the worst kind of pedantic dickweedery: wrong.

    Orly? I based what I said on observing the behaviour of the people on the list, and only pointed out the abbreviation list as a symptom of their twisted culture. Do a frequency analysis on that list and tell me the amount of helpful statements. You can also try to post something to the list and tell me the amount of help you get with configuring your mail client to fit their standards and how they will tell you you really are asking the wrong question. And I am basing this purely on observation, I haven't even bothered to ask the question I came there for. Why? Because 2 people asked it for me, and they both got sneezed off. Those guys really need a reality check.

    I'm too lazy to read a mailing list, there's no way I'm going to "do a frequency analysis" on a bunch of acronyms. Hell, I only skimmed through their list, and like I said, it didn't seem to be that bad, but then I'm a regular around here, so my judgment is suspect.



  • @Zecc said:

    @AerieC said:

    Without the emoticon, most people will generally either read "yeah" as neutral or negative, even though it could be meant as positive.
    yeah

    Are you mad at me?



  • Fine. You're entitled to an opinion. But trust me, its bad.



  • @Obfuscator said:

    Fine. You're entitled to an opinion. But trust me, its bad.
     

    I've only read a handful of threads from the archives, so I haven't formed an opinion yet. Doesn't seem particularly bad so far.

    Concerning the list of acronyms, I suggest you re-read it. They're making fun of themselves, mostly (e.g. WJM, MSFTEU), where it's not common stuff.



  • @bridget99 said:

    I used to work with a guy who made a point of being "Douglas" (not "Doug") and I must tell you, we all laughed at that guy relentlessly behind his back. 
     

    That's odd.  I used to work with a guy named "Dick", and he'd get all upset if anyone called him "Dickless".



  • This thread is stupid.



  • Am I the only one who wants to know what the regular expression is causing 2GB+ of memory usage in grep?



  • ¬†It's quite easy to make inefficient regexes, especially if you use recursion. The philosoply that allows it is heavily embedded in the UNIX psyche: "We don't prevent you from doing stupid things, because that will prevent you from doing cool things too."

    Without the regex that was causing the problem, troubleshooting it would have been impossible. Another sign of a mailing-list newbie who needs educating. More evidence of the Windows/Unix disconnect. ("We'll prevent you from doing anything that wasn't included in the QA documents.")



  • @Obfuscator said:

    And I am basing this purely on observation, I haven't even bothered to ask the question I came there for. Why? Because 2 people asked it for me, and they both got sneezed off. Those guys really need a reality check.

    Don't leave it at that! Let us know what question you wanted to ask so that we can laugh at you in their place. You can even be as vague as Shailesh about the problem if you want to be; it won't affect the quality of the help you receive in any way.



  • @DaveK said:

    @bridget99 said:
    How many people do you know named David Korn?
    Precisely one, and he's not the Unix guy!

    Really? I know at least two! ...if by "know" you mean "read some random crap on the intarwebz once"

    @bridget99 said:

    @DaveK said:
    2) "Accusing"? That's a pretty biased way to describe just agreeing with someone who made the observation that it looked like it might not be Cygwin grep.

    I don't know a nicer word to use for the situation where one person is making a claim ("I used Cygwin GREP") and a second person is calling it a falsehood.

    The second person wasn't David Korn, though. It wasn't even Dave Korn, but it wasn't David Korn.



  • It was the long standing question about a package manager. I was subscribed to the list for a couple of months, and the general impression I got was not great. The 'not a bug' / 'not reproducible' /'proove it' culture was quite strong.


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