Argumentative



  • In an old/ancient C file I'm currently looking at:

    main(argc, argv)
    int argc;
    char *argv[];
    {
    .
    .
    .

    if (argc < 11) {
    printf("improperly invoked\n");
    printf("aborting.\n");
    exit(1);
    }

    /* stuff to process the command line arguments /
    .
    .
    .
    /
    call the FORTRAN analysis stub */
    .
    .
    .

    printf("%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c",bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell);
    printf(" analysis terminated...\n");
    printf(" press <RETURN> to continue\n");
    (void)getchar();
    }

    A command line program that REQUIRES ELEVEN arguments. And doesn't even bother to SUGGEST to you what they are? I guess you just have to know what they are ...

    You can probably guess that this is fun to get working from a running Java program with the 'hit return' bit ...



  • Argumentative

    In an old/ancient C file I'm currently looking at:

    main(argc, argv)
      int argc;
      char *argv[];
    {
      int bell=7;
      .
      .
      .
    

    if (argc < 11) {
    printf("improperly invoked\n");
    printf("aborting.\n");
    exit(1);
    }

    /* stuff to process the command line arguments /
    .
    .
    .
    /
    call the FORTRAN analysis stub */
    .
    .
    .

    printf("%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c",bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell);
    printf(" analysis terminated...\n");
    printf(" press <RETURN> to continue\n");
    (void)getchar();
    }

    A command line program that REQUIRES ELEVEN arguments. And doesn't even bother to SUGGEST to you what they are? I guess you just have to know what they are ...

    You can probably guess that this is fun to get working from a running Java program with the 'hit return' bit ...



  • @zelmak said:

    this is fun to get working from a running Java program

    So you have a Java program that calls a C program that calls a FORTRAN program? Codeception!



  • @zelmak said:

    You can probably guess that this is fun to get working from a running Java program with the 'hit return' bit ...
     

    Well, I guess Java has something like the "system" function ... then just call "yes '' | your_program" and it can have as many Returns as it likes ...

     



  • @blakeyrat said:

    So you have a Java program that calls a C program that calls a FORTRAN program? Codeception!

    To the OP: Does it take a lifetime to run, and only return to the "caller" when its current inception dies?



  • @zelmak said:

    In an old/ancient C file I'm currently looking at:

    main(argc, argv)
    int argc;
    char *argv[;
    {
    (sinp)

    A command line program that REQUIRES ELEVEN arguments. And doesn't even bother to SUGGEST to you what they are? I guess you just have to know what they are ...

    Judging the way arguments to main are declared people back then knew how things worked. I'd say the printf with twenty times the same parameter is really a wtf.


  • ... CS is eating my brackets and greater/less-than signs ...

    and making my clicks twice as robust ...

    or is it my crappy draconian proxy with four bad hard drives (that the infrastructure guys don't think are broken ...)



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @zelmak said:
    this is fun to get working from a running Java program
    So you have a Java program that calls a C program that calls a FORTRAN program? Codeception!

    I'm guessing this is some sort of reference to the movie Inception? I haven't seen it so I can't comment ...

    But, no, Java -> C which executes FORTRAN linked-in code, not a separate stand-alone program ... er ... now that I think about it ... you might be right ... I'll have to double-check ... but I really don't think it is set up that way.

    Sorry ...

    BUUUUUUUT it does ACTUALLY go Java -> csh script -> C program



  • Mods -- can you merge the two "Argumentative" threads? somehow got two separate ones ...



  • @zelmak said:

    I'm guessing this is some sort of reference to the movie Inception? I haven't seen it so I can't comment ...

    FWIW, this is not really a spoiler alert, since this gets explained pretty early in the movie, but if you want to be pedantic, then: SPOILER ALERT! You've been warned. :)

    The premise of the movie is about dreams within dreams, and is not limited to one level deep. In fact, it's more recursive, and is on the order of magnitude of O(n^2), where in the deeper that you go (recursively), the more "time" (relatively speaking) you can spend in the dream.



  • Nevermind the arguments.
    @zelmak said:


    printf("%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c",bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell);

    There's the WTF.


  • Indeed! 25 %c's and only 20 bell's!



    SOMEONE STOLE FIVE OF THE BELLS!!



    Call the polasciice!!



  • @lolwtf said:

    Nevermind the arguments.
    @zelmak said:
      printf("%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c%c",bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell,bell);

    There's the WTF.

    Yep. Needs more cowbell.



  • Bob: "Hey, sounds like your analysis is terminated."

    Bill: "Nah, that was only 19 dings. I'm waiting for 20."



  • Did the merge go ok? This one popped my cherry.

    Gotta love interfaces where you have to manual enter a post ID.



  •  \a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a\a

     



  • @dhromed said:

    Did the merge go ok? This one popped my cherry.

    Gotta love interfaces where you have to manual enter a post ID.

    Looks okay ... however, I now have three elbows and one knee.



  • @superjer said:

    Indeed! 25 %c's and only 20 bell's!

    SOMEONE STOLE FIVE OF THE BELLS!!

    Call the polasciice!!

    It was Carol...



  • @zelmak said:

    Looks okay ... however, I now have three elbows and one knee.
     

    Whatever. How is the extra dick?



  • @dhromed said:

    @zelmak said:

    Looks okay ... however, I now have three elbows and one knee.
     

    Whatever. How is the extra dick?

    I already had two bosses -- you think I needed another?



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    The premise of the movie is about dreams within dreams, and is not limited to one level deep. In fact, it's more recursive, and is on the order of magnitude of O(n^2), where in the deeper that you go (recursively), the more "time" (relatively speaking) you can spend in the dream.

    The time speedup is almost given in formula form in the film. In the film "Five minutes in the real world gives you about an hour in a dream". This is repeated for every level.

    The formula is thus t(d) = 12d (where t is the time-speedup and d is the dream level) and thus it's O(12n) or exponential time. Much greater than the polymorphic/"recursive" (what the heck is recursive time anyway?...)   O(n2) you gave.



  • @dtech said:

    The formula is thus t(d) = 12d (where t is the time-speedup and d is the dream level) and thus it's O(12n) or exponential time. Much greater than the polymorphic/"recursive" (what the heck is recursive time anyway?...)   O(n2) you gave.

    Haha. But the point was still made, regardless of my lack of uber math skillz. But thanks for the clarification; Big O is something that I've always struggled with, and need to spend more time [re-]learning. :)



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    Big O is something that I've always struggled with
     

    You have a pile of things that you need to process.

    That takes time.

    What is the relation between pile size and process time?

    That formula is the x in O(x).

    Poof.



  • @dhromed said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    Big O is something that I've always struggled with
     

    You have a pile of things that you need to process.

    That takes time.

    What is the relation between pile size and worst possible process time?

    That formula is the x in O(x).

    Poof.

    PDTFY



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    Big O is something that I've always struggled with, and need to spend more time [re-]learning. :)

    Sigh, I know it's a bit surreal, but it's not too hard. Everybody got their memories erased, so a big part of the show is figuring out what happened to Paradigm City before the memory erasure. The whole setup is basically a Japanese take on Batman, but with giant mechas. The maid, Dorothy, is a robot and she has a CD-ROM drive in her forehead, as robots are wont to have. And he has a butler dude who drives the extraordinarily long car.

    Oh wait, did you say "Big O", or "The Big O?" ... damn.



  • @blakeyrat said:

     Sigh, I know it's a bit surreal, but it's not too hard. Everybody got their memories erased, so a big part of the show is figuring out what happened to Paradigm City before the memory erasure. The whole setup is basically a Japanese take on Batman, but with giant mechas. The maid, Dorothy, is a robot and she has a CD-ROM drive in her forehead, as robots are wont to have. And he has a butler dude who drives the extraordinarily long car.

    Oh wait, did you say "Big O", or "The Big O?" ... damn.

    I liked their color scheme





  • @blakeyrat said:

    Oh wait, did you say "Big O", or "The Big O?" ... damn.
     

    Yes, but I'm going to investigate The Big O now.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @serguey123 said:
    I liked their color scheme

    I liked the inexplicable, completely-unrelated-to-anything-in-the-show duet they chose for the end credits.

     

    I liked the phone call at the end that tells you the name of the next episode. If I'm thinking of the right show.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    I liked the phone call at the end that tells you the name of the next episode. If I'm thinking of the right show.

    Yeah you are. That was pretty cool. Too bad the second season was absolutely gibberish.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Someone You Know said:
    I liked the phone call at the end that tells you the name of the next episode. If I'm thinking of the right show.

    Yeah you are. That was pretty cool. Too bad the second season was absolutely gibberish.

     

    My memory is that the first season was pretty much gibberish too, though I admit I actually only saw three or four episodes — mostly when my anime-obsessed comparative-literature-major roommate was watching it. He watched a staggering amount of anime during the time we lived together, but the only one that I really liked was Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @dhromed said:

    What is the relation between pile size and worst possible process time?

    That formula is the x in O(x).

    Poof.

    PDTFY

    Big O is not inherently related to worst case time, it's just usually used there. You might as well say that average runtime or memory use is O(whatever).

     



  • @topspin said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    @dhromed said:

    What is the relation between pile size and worst possible process time?

    That formula is the x in O(x).

    Poof.

    PDTFY

    Big O is not inherently related to worst case time, it's just usually used there. You might as well say that average runtime or memory use is O(whatever).

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Family_of_Bachmann.E2.80.93Landau_notations

    Big O(g) = function is bounded above (worst case) by g



  • Nevermind.  I'd delete my post if I could.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    I really liked Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

    That one is pretty good, Masamune Shirow is a pervert (as 90% of mangakas are) but he has nice drawing and story telling skills.  You should watch the original movie (I don't know if the remake is good enough) as Mamoru Oshii made a good adaptation.



  • @serguey123 said:

    @Someone You Know said:

    I really liked Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

    That one is pretty good, Masamune Shirow is a pervert (as 90% of mangakas are) but he has nice drawing and story telling skills.  You should watch the original movie (I don't know if the remake is good enough) as Mamoru Oshii made a good adaptation.

     

    I've seen the movie. I liked the series a lot better. 

    Are you saying that he's more of a pervert than the sort of...baseline perversion level of his field? Ghost In The Shell was pretty low on the perversion scale, even compared to non-anime stuff. But I have no knowledge of his other work.

     



  • @Someone You Know said:

    I've seen the movie. I liked the series a lot better. 

    Are you saying that he's more of a pervert than the sort of...baseline perversion level of his field? Ghost In The Shell was pretty low on the perversion scale, even compared to non-anime stuff. But I have no knowledge of his other work.

    Which one did you see? There are several, I was referring to the original one.

    Besides to gauge Masamune Shirow level of perversion you should read the manga, they sanitize a lot when going for more mainstream media such as TV or cinema.  Remember that this is an adaptation based on his original work.  As to the level of perversion, hmmm, depends on what is your personal experience with the work of mangakas, there are some that are more perverted than him, but not many, I'm not taking into account hentais or ecchi stuff of course.



  • @Someone You Know said:

    Are you saying that he's more of a pervert than the sort of...baseline perversion level of his field? Ghost In The Shell was pretty low on the perversion scale, even compared to non-anime stuff. But I have no knowledge of his other work.

    You can tell she's a Major, because she dresses like a playboy bunny.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Filed under: T̢he best thing JAG and SG1 ever did was have women in the military who were actually... women in the military

     

    That's what always irritated me about Counselor Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation



  • @Someone You Know said:

    That's what always irritated me about Counselor Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

    Roddenberry's seasons of TNG had a lot of crazy ideas, which is why the ship was full of kids and it had counselor as a BRIDGE OFFICER. Fortunately, DS9 and Voyager dropped all that "utopia" shit after Roddenberry was in the ground.



  • @serguey123 said:

    As to the level of perversion, hmmm, depends on what is your personal experience with the work of mangakas, there are some that are more perverted than him, but not many, I'm not taking into account hentais or ecchi more perverted stuff of course.

    Some people may not be familiar with the terms 'hentai' or 'ecchi', so I clarified your statement for you.




  • @Sutherlands said:

    @topspin said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    @dhromed said:

    What is the relation between pile size and worst possible process time?

    That formula is the x in O(x).

    Poof.

    PDTFY

    Big O is not inherently related to worst case time, it's just usually used there. You might as well say that average runtime or memory use is O(whatever).

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation#Family_of_Bachmann.E2.80.93Landau_notations

    Big O(g) = function is bounded above (worst case) by g

    Haha. You guys are funny. I understand the underlying concept of Big O. It's the deriving of the worst-case that gives me problems. I blame my undiagnosed ADD, because the minute that I start trying to analyze an algorithm mathematically... oh look! Anime reference!!!!

    @blakeyrat said:

    Oh wait, did you say "Big O", or "The Big O?" ... damn.

    I had completely forgotten about that show; it definitely was fun to watch! That and FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, and Trigun... Sigh, I miss the days of yore when Adult Swim would run anime at night. Do they still do that? Now that I'm married, I rarely get the opportunity to watch "my" shows anymore. Double Sigh.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Someone You Know said:
    That's what always irritated me about Counselor Troi from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

    Roddenberry's seasons of TNG had a lot of crazy ideas, which is why the ship was full of kids

    And never even mind Wesley, the worst thing about it was that it led to episodes about KLINGONS WITH FAMILY PROBLEMS!  GODDAMMIT AAAARRRRGGGNASHFOAMRARGH!!!  Klingons do not "have family problems".  Klingons do not "have issues" or spend time "bonding" with their kids.  The Klingon way of solving their offspring's "emotional problems" involves a sharp blade and a quick beheading, for crying out loud!

    @blakeyrat said:

    and it had counselor as a BRIDGE OFFICER.

    And bloody Whoopi running the bar! 

    @blakeyrat said:

    Fortunately, DS9 and Voyager dropped all that "utopia" shit after Roddenberry was in the ground.

    I think you'll find that Roddenberry is probably still not yet actually "in the ground"...




  • @DaveK said:

    @serguey123 said:

    As to the level of perversion, hmmm, depends on what is your personal experience with the work of mangakas, there are some that are more perverted than him, but not many, I'm not taking into account hentais or ecchi more perverted stuff of course.

    Some people may not be familiar with the terms 'hentai' or 'ecchi', so I clarified your statement for you.


    Who are you kidding?  This is the internet, everybody knows everything

    Anyhow there is a difference between porn movie, an erotic movie, and some movie with erotic or pornographic scenes, and that is the distintion I was trying to achieve.  The work of Shirow is not pornographic nor erotic but it does have some drawings that can qualify as such (this is a sennen, of course, an adult manga for those not familiar with the term)



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    I had completely forgotten about that show; it definitely was fun to watch! That and FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, and Trigun... Sigh, I miss the days of yore when Adult Swim would run anime at night. Do they still do that? Now that I'm married, I rarely get the opportunity to watch "my" shows anymore. Double Sigh.

    Good taste there, I used to watch Adult Swim and a couple other cable channels that broadcasted anime until I could not bear the dubbing anymore (not that subtitles are better, I just turn them off as well as the translation suck cold monkey's ass usually), I rather hear the voices of the original seiyuu (voice actor), thank you very much. 



  • @serguey123 said:

    @DaveK said:

    @serguey123 said:

    As to the level of perversion, hmmm, depends on what is your personal experience with the work of mangakas, there are some that are more perverted than him, but not many, I'm not taking into account hentais or ecchi more perverted stuff of course.

    Some people may not be familiar with the terms 'hentai' or 'ecchi', so I clarified your statement for you.

    Who are you kidding? 

    You, apparently! 

    @serguey123 said:

    This is the internet, everybody knows everything

    Anyhow there is a difference between porn movie, an erotic movie, and some movie with erotic or pornographic scenes, and that is the distintion I was trying to achieve.  The work of Shirow is not pornographic nor erotic but it does have some drawings that can qualify as such (this is a sennen, of course, an adult manga for those not familiar with the term)

    You're taking my reply too seriously.  I was just pointing out that if you're trying to consider where someone is on an arbitrary scale of perversion, and you've taken out of consideration a vast part of that scale before you start, specifically the perverse stuff, then your estimate of their perversion is liable to be skewed.




  • @DaveK said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Fortunately, DS9 and Voyager dropped all that "utopia" shit after Roddenberry was in the ground.

    I think you'll find that Roddenberry is probably still not yet actually "in the ground"...

    Congratulations, you found a whole new way to be a pedantic dickweed.



  • @serguey123 said:

    Good taste there, I used to watch Adult Swim and a couple other cable channels that broadcasted anime until I could not bear the dubbing anymore (not that subtitles are better, I just turn them off as well as the translation suck cold monkey's ass usually), I rather hear the voices of the original seiyuu (voice actor), thank you very much. 

    I also enjoyed Inuyasha and Full Metal Alchemist as well. I knew a guy like that once; I never could understand why that was better. Sure, the inflection and exaggeration is funny, but I prefer the story (since I don't know Japanese, I can't really tell anyway).



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    @serguey123 said:

    Good taste there, I used to watch Adult Swim and a couple other cable channels that broadcasted anime until I could not bear the dubbing anymore (not that subtitles are better, I just turn them off as well as the translation suck cold monkey's ass usually), I rather hear the voices of the original seiyuu (voice actor), thank you very much. 

    I also enjoyed Inuyasha and Full Metal Alchemist as well. I knew a guy like that once; I never could understand why that was better. Sure, the inflection and exaggeration is funny, but I prefer the story (since I don't know Japanese, I can't really tell anyway).

    Good ones as well, a second version of Full Metal Alchemist was made later on that was closer to the manga.  Ohh, of course, if you don't know japanese and dislike reading then dubbing might be for you.  The thing is that sometimes some stuff get lost during translation, learning japanese is not that hard anyways and some animes and games never get translated to your native language and that is another advantage.

    Sorry Davek, sometimes is hard for me to judge other humans, I was trying to be fair to Shirow and putting him on the class of anime he fits (a sennen)  and not all of them but of course that is my opinion alone, you can compare him to whoever you want



  • @DaveK said:

    And never even mind Wesley, the worst thing about it was that it led to episodes about KLINGONS WITH FAMILY PROBLEMS!  GODDAMMIT AAAARRRRGGGNASHFOAMRARGH!!!  Klingons do not "have family problems".  Klingons do not "have issues" or spend time "bonding" with their kids.  The Klingon way of solving their offspring's "emotional problems" involves a sharp blade and a quick beheading, for crying out loud!

    I DO NOT YELL.


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