You're now in charge of the schedule - but don't change it!



  • I'm in charge of QA checking of our software products developed by overseas vendors (typically in India).  Recently my boss emailed me, and CCd the vendor, and said (paraphrased):

    You are now going to be in charge of reviewing the proposed QA schedules sent by the vendors, and making sure there is adequate time to do thorough QA-checking; since you are the expert on that part of the process, you know how long everything will take.  I am also going to be minimizing my involvement in the development and QA process, so you will be taking over a lot of those functions as well.

    The vendor sent a proposed schedule to me for an upcoming project - it was a project involving about 75 discrete pieces of software, that get linked and bundled, then sold as a set to customers.

    According to the proposed schedule, my team would be given between 3 and 9 minutes to fully QA each of the 75 pieces during each of the three QA phases (Alpha, Beta, Gold).  On a good day, actual QA for each of those pieces can take between 20 minutes and 60 minutes (depending on the specific piece to be QAd) - not counting the time it takes to create screenshots, do test printing, accessing files on the server, and filling out the bug reports.

     I spoke to a couple people on my team about the proposal.  One of them laughed in my face.  The other looked at me as if she wanted to tear my heart out and use it in some dark ritual to summon a demon to destroy the world (she has really expressive eyes).

    Naturally, I sent in my request to the vendor for a modification to the schedule.  My boss, who was CCd on the email, responded by telling me that I could not actually make any changes to the schedule, and that I should go back to the vendor and rescind my request.  My request was "unreasonable" and we absolutely cannot be "spending that much time on QA".  I was then told by my boss' boss that if I am now required to bring in untrained freelancers to do QA, shortening the time required by bringing in more people - they apparently have never heard of Brooks' law.

    Despite my attempts to explain that software development is different than the process of putting together a physical product, and that adding bodies does not make the process go any faster (unlike in the warehouse when putting together physical kits of products), my message does not seem to be getting through.

    I was naive in thinking that the latest project disaster (wherein I was given about 2 and a half weeks to do three months of QA work, despite my objections) would have taught management a bit about the importance of setting realistic schedules.  Instead, they seem to think that the best way to prevent another late delivery (the aforementioned project disaster was three months late - it took exactly as long to complete as I tried telling them it would) is to make the schedule even tighter, so staff will get the work done faster.  So now, rather than the 60 minutes per piece my team really needs, I have to get it done in less than 10 minutes per piece.

    Now I'm keeping two sets of schedules - the one I show my bosses, and the real schedule that I show my team, which tracks how long things are actually going to take.

    I think that when my boss sent me that email saying that I was now in charge of the schedules, what he really meant to say was:

    You are now "in charge" of the QA schedules.  You can't actually change the schedules, or impact it in any way, but you will be held accountable for them now, rather than me.  You are also going to be in charge of all the other areas of the QA process now too that you had no control over before.  Actually, I still control those, but the difference is now that you will get blamed when things go wrong instead of me.  And when the VP of Sales goes on the warpath because we're loosing hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales due to bugs and problems that made it through the QA process, he'll be knocking on your door instead of mine.  Good luck on your performance review in February.



  • @KrakenLover said:

    she wanted to tear my heart out and use it in some dark ritual to summon a demon to destroy the world (she has really expressive eyes).
     

    She hot?



  • @KrakenLover said:

    Despite my attempts to explain that software development is different than the process of putting together a physical product, and that adding bodies does not make the process go any faster (unlike in the warehouse when putting together physical kits of products), my message does not seem to be getting through.

    I was naive in thinking that the latest project disaster (wherein I was given about 2 and a half weeks to do three months of QA work, despite my objections) would have taught management a bit about the importance of setting realistic schedules.  Instead, they seem to think that the best way to prevent another late delivery (the aforementioned project disaster was three months late - it took exactly as long to complete as I tried telling them it would) is to make the schedule even tighter, so staff will get the work done faster....

    Color me paranoid (it's a deep purple, hazy-looking color), but this says to me that you pissed off your boss (or his boss, or somebody) during the last project fubar, and instead of just saying so, they are setting you up for inevitable failure. This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    If you say to your boss "this can't be done" and your boss says "do it anyway" then it is not a sign that your boss has lots of confidence in you, it is a sign your boss doesn't think your opinion is worth shit. Time to leave.

     



  • @dhromed said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    she wanted to tear my heart out and use it in some dark ritual to summon a demon to destroy the world (she has really expressive eyes).
    She hot?
    I don't think so.  But, I'm not into women, so your mileage may vary.

    @dohpaz42 said:

    Color me paranoid (it's a deep purple, hazy-looking color), but this
    says to me that you pissed off your boss (or his boss, or somebody)
    during the last project fubar, and instead of just saying so, they are
    setting you up for inevitable failure. This definitely reeks of a no-win
    situation.
    I've worked here long enough that I consider no-win situations the norm.  I like to think of my work experience here as a Kobayashi Maru scenario.  Maybe impossible to win, but if I can make it out with my sanity intact, try out a few innovative strategies in an unwinnable situation, or learn a bit about my character, I can be happy.  Of course, the alternative is that I go mad... or delude myself to the point where I start to think that working here serves any purpose at all...

    @havokk said:

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    If
    you say to your boss "this can't be done" and your boss says "do it
    anyway" then it is not a sign that your boss has lots of confidence in
    you, it is a sign your boss doesn't think your opinion is worth shit.
    Time to leave.

    Yeah.  Everyone keeps telling me that.  All my friends, family...  Can't think of anyone I know who thinks I should keep this job, except for the co-workers I stand up for.

    I've got a a number of other job offers, but I figure I may as well stay and see what happens.  It is entirely possible, however, that my sanity has already left me and I don't even realize it yet.

    But - You know how much of a schedule extension I asked for? 1 day.

    1 day.

    But that was too much to ask for, apparently.

     



  • The right answer here is to tell them what they can expect with their budget. You're not allowed to change the budget, which is reasonable. It's not unreasonable to specify what the budget buys, however. Maybe part of that is that you don't fill out tickets, and just give them a pass / fail. Maybe you only run a few tests. It's not completely unreasonable to not have a giant QA budget. They're just allocating risk in a particular way (that seems unreasonable).



  • @boomzilla said:

    The right answer here is to tell them what they can expect with their budget. You're not allowed to change the budget, which is reasonable. It's not unreasonable to specify what the budget buys, however. Maybe part of that is that you don't fill out tickets, and just give them a pass / fail. Maybe you only run a few tests. It's not completely unreasonable to not have a giant QA budget. They're just allocating risk in a particular way (that seems unreasonable).
    I don't think it's really a budgetary issue.  It's going to cost them more to do it quickly than if they followed my schedule.

    To meet their deadline, I'm going to have to ask my team to work overtime.  And now I have to bring in freelancers, in-house, who will get paid a higher rate for a last minute in-house project.

    Adding just one day to the schedule would save a not inconsiderable amount of money.

    Also - what QA budget?  We don't even have a budget for QA.  It's an add-on to another non-software project, and my QA "team" technically don't even work under me.  If I have a cost that I need to incur, I ask for approval - it either gets approved or denied.  I have no reference to the actual budget, nor any understanding of what the fiscal expectations are.

    I've been given an ax and asked to clear a forest while wearing a blindfold and to do it in less time than it takes to run from one side of the forest to the other, to say nothing of the time it would take to actually chop down the trees.

    I have told them, repeatedly, that they will not like what they get when they cut down the time for QA.  And they say they are fine with that.  Yet, every single time, they seem to forget about ever having agreed to my terms.  "Oh, I didn't know you meant that.  You weren't clear enough; I never would have agreed to that.  Quality product is always our #1 goal".  They also, conveniently, forget to tell their bosses or upper management about the compromises they were complicit in making, so that when issues do come up after the product gets in the hands of customers, everyone looks at me.



  • @KrakenLover said:

    @dhromed said:
    @KrakenLover said:
    she wanted to tear my heart out and use it in some dark ritual to summon a demon to destroy the world (she has really expressive eyes).
    She hot?
    I don't think so.  But, I'm not into women, so your mileage may vary.

    Obviously he's only into krakens.

    @KrakenLover said:

    I have told them, repeatedly, that they will not like what they get when they cut down the time for QA. And they say they are fine with that. Yet, every single time, they seem to forget about ever having agreed to my terms. "Oh, I didn't know you meant that. You weren't clear enough; I never would have agreed to that. Quality product is always our #1 goal". They also, conveniently, forget to tell their bosses or upper management about the compromises they were complicit in making, so that when issues do come up after the product gets in the hands of customers, everyone looks at me.

    And you still work there because...

    Cute little kraken receptionist maybe?



  • @boomzilla said:

    It's not unreasonable to specify what the budget buys, however. Maybe part of that is that you don't fill out tickets, and just give them a pass / fail.
     

    So what's the best philosophy here?  Fill out the QA report ahead of time saying that the product failed the test, since you can reasonably expect that it can't pass all of it in the time specified?

    I've come close to doing this.  Asked to babysit a hodgepodge of changes being installed at 01:30am, most of which I had no real information about, with the instruction to fall back the load if there were any problems: on at least one such occasion I've resigned myself to a policy of "unconditional fallback", followed by the day shift having to come in tomorrow and clean it all up for another go-round.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @KrakenLover said:

    I have told them, repeatedly, that they will not like what they get when they cut down the time for QA.  And they say they are fine with that.  Yet, every single time, they seem to forget about ever having agreed to my terms.  "Oh, I didn't know you meant that.  You weren't clear enough; I never would have agreed to that.  Quality product is always our #1 goal".  They also, conveniently, forget to tell their bosses or upper management about the compromises they were complicit in making, so that when issues do come up after the product gets in the hands of customers, everyone looks at me.

    I hope to prevent a repeat of the last sentence, you are getting your boss to explicitly agree to emails you sent saying specifically what'll happen when, not if, the product quality is jeopardized.

    "Dear PHB, your schedule will result in a total clusterfarg, with not nearly enough time allocated to actually test stuff. Please reply stating that you are OK with this."



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Cute little kraken receptionist maybe?
    Something like that.

    Speaks with an accent.  Sparkling brown eyes.  Giant flesh-tearing tentacles studded with rows of razor sharp teeth.

    The whole 9 yards.@da Doctah said:

    So what's the best philosophy here?  Fill out the QA report ahead of time saying that the product failed the test, since you can reasonably expect that it can't pass all of it in the time specified?
    My superiors seem to think that if 1 piece looks good in the pre-alpha, then everything else will be fine.  Really.  That was the exact justification used to deny my request.  "The-pre alpha looks clean; there were barely any problems, so the rest should be good.  There's no need to check the rest too much."

    I try to explain that the only way to know whether or not there are problems with the rest of the software is to actually do a full check.  Otherwise, there could be all sorts of bugs and issues right there beneath the surface.

    I tried that strategy of giving a delivery a fail.  And there was actually a major, major, problem that prevented one of the key features from working (to say nothing of the other problem that prevented the software from running on any Windows computer). Their response to my concerns?  "We're already late, just ship it."

    Thankfully that was a Friday and all my bosses were tired and left early.  I was able to get the vendor to fix the issue, which took several more days, and by the time I cleared the product for shipping, my bosses had forgotten that they told me to ship it a week earlier and that I disobeyed them.  So, their forgetfulness does work to my advantage sometimes.

    @FrostCat said:

    I hope to prevent a repeat of the last sentence, you are getting your
    boss to explicitly agree to emails you sent saying specifically what'll
    happen when, not if, the product quality is jeopardized.

    "Dear PHB, your schedule will result in a total clusterfarg, with not
    nearly enough time allocated to actually test stuff. Please reply
    stating that you are OK with this."

    Yes, I actually do get their okay via email.  So I do have records.  I call meetings so that the whole team can hear it straight from the boss' mouth.

    But it doesn't change anything. "Oh, well, that was a one-time thing."  "I didn't understand what you meant."  "It is what it is."  "You didn't manage your time well enough."  "You didn't do this other mind-numbingly stupid thing I suggested, so it's your fault that the project is late."  And so on.



  • @KrakenLover said:

    I don't think it's really a budgetary issue.  It's going to cost them more to do it quickly than if they followed my schedule.

    Sure, we all know that, but they don't. Although you can budget time. Or any other scarce quantity. They were talking about how they didn't have enough time to do what you'd consider thorough, so I'd say they're poorly budgeting their time.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Obviously he's only into krakens.
     

    [url="http://www.theaterhopper.com/2010/04/05/a-kraken-good-time/"]RELEASE THE KRAKEN![/url]

     



  • @boomzilla said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    I don't think it's really a budgetary issue.  It's going to cost them more to do it quickly than if they followed my schedule.

    Sure, we all know that, but they don't. Although you can budget time. Or any other scarce quantity. They were talking about how they didn't have enough time to do what you'd consider thorough, so I'd say they're poorly budgeting their time.

    Considering that this project just started last week and is already one month late, and there are several other projects ongoing that are between 6 and 11 months late, I honestly don't think they understand budgeting period.



  • @KrakenLover said:

    it took exactly as long to complete as I tried telling them it would
     

    Please tell me this is indelibly documented.


     



  • @Watson said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    it took exactly as long to complete as I tried telling them it would
     

    Please tell me this is indelibly documented.

    Yep.  All in email records.

    And I just heard about two minutes ago that another person put in their two weeks notice - they couldn't handle the workload and insane schedules.

    Funny - I seem to remember warning management that if they kept this up, that they would start losing people left and right.

     



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Obviously he's only into krakens.
     

    RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

     

     

    I've always wanted to get a parrot.  First I'd establish that he does indeed love squid and cuttlefish (as the conventional wisdom would suggest).

    Then I'd train him to ask for them specifically:

    [b]"Polly wants a kraken!"[/b]

     



  • @KrakenLover said:

    But - You know how much of a schedule extension I asked for? 1 day.

    1 day.

    But that was too much to ask for, apparently.

     


    By my calculation that's asking them to double the time allocated. So it seems that all these temps you're supposed to hire and train will have time to sort everything out with security, HR, and IT, and then their contract will be over before they're touched the software.



  • @pjt33 said:

    @KrakenLover said:

    But - You know how much of a schedule extension I asked for? 1 day.

    1 day.

    But that was too much to ask for, apparently.


    By my calculation that's asking them to double the time allocated. So it seems that all these temps you're supposed to hire and train will have time to sort everything out with security, HR, and IT, and then their contract will be over before they're touched the software.

    That's alright because it will be KrakenLover's fault.



  • I have a theory. Did you often make a fuss trying to tell your boss that you need more time to test? Maybe the boss's plan is just to put you in his shows and show you there's absolutely nothing he can do to change it, even if he wanted, and it was planned from the start that you'll just have the title for this single project. Could that be it?



  • @havokk said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    If you say to your boss "this can't be done" and your boss says "do it anyway" then it is not a sign that your boss has lots of confidence in you, it is a sign your boss doesn't think your opinion is worth shit. Time to leave.

     

    +1

     



  •  Given your avatar (Final Fantasy 1 Kraken right, either Origins or DS version?  I think I see his cape), I would think that you would be the one summoning a demon to destroy the world...



  • @Lorne Kates said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    Obviously he's only into krakens.
     

    RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

     

    Is yelling out "release the kraken!" really a "thing", or is that comic's writer just pulling it out of his ass? I've never heard anybody say that.

    If it was a "thing" I'd give that comic maybe a C+. (How is the last panel not him in bed with a woman!?) But since it's not a "thing", it's in the low D territory.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Is yelling out "release the kraken!" really a "thing"

    Yes. In fact, it's a much better thing than My Little Pony, but that's a pretty low bar.



  • This seems relevant:




  • @UrzaMTG said:

    This seems relevant:


    ... <webcomic /> ...

    Great. Thanks. Yet another time-waster for my work day.



  • You're quite welcome! :D



  • Well, if you've got a mass exodus on your hands, the place I work for is hiring.  It's a good team with a minimum of WTFery, because the boss is a developer and he knows how to listen when we say things.  (He doesn't always agree, but he's intelligent and reasonable about it.)

    We've got multiple openings available for Delphi and C# devs, and one C++ position, but beware of that one.  The C++ project in question is a huge mess developed by guys who never should have been allowed near a compiler in the first place, who are no longer with the company.  Unfortunately, it's mission-critical, and it mostly works, and needs to be maintained.  (It truly exemplifies the term "Worse Than Failure.)

    The rest of the codebase is decent, though, and it's a good work environment. Send me a PM if you're interested...



  • You're bound to find bugs. Although you've been given only 2.5 weeks to QA the whole shebang, when it does take 3 months you need just to say, "We would have got it done in 2.5 weeks if only those useless programmers had got off their fat behinds and a) coded it properly in the first place, and b) fixed the damn things when we found them - but no ..."


    Oh, and polish up that CV.



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    The C++ project in question is a huge mess developed by guys who never should have been allowed near a compiler in the first place, who are no longer with the company.  Unfortunately, it's mission-critical, and it mostly works, and needs to be maintained.  (It truly exemplifies the term "Worse Than Failure.)

    Actually, I enjoy cleaning up other people's code ... I take it as a challenge (I like puzzles) ... sadly, around here, I'm unable to do so without wailing and gnashing of teeth.



  • @pjt33 said:

    By my calculation that's asking them to double the time allocated. So it seems that all these temps you're supposed to hire and train will have time to sort everything out with security, HR, and IT, and then their contract will be over before they're touched the software.
    Yes.  Exactly.  I pointed that out several times over the course of the past few months, explaining why (and showing the numbers) bringing in a bunch of freelancers would only compound the scheduling problem.

    I was assured that my proposal for having competent in-house people making less than a freelancer makes is "bad business" and "doesn't make business sense".  This was coming from my boss who has no business education, or experience, and I am the only one in my entire department who was actually a business major, so I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about.

    @derula said:

    @pjt33 said:
    By my calculation that's asking them to double the time allocated. So it
    seems that all these temps you're supposed to hire and train will have
    time to sort everything out with security, HR, and IT, and then their
    contract will be over before they're touched the software.

    That's alright because it will be KrakenLover's fault.

    Exactly.  Especially because I am security and IT.  So not only I am the one who has to schedule the freelancers, bring them in and what not, I also am the one who creates their log-ins, passwords, and sets their privileges, etc.  Because I am basically doing four or five jobs at once here, any minor change, issue, new person, what have you, doesn't just take up one small portion of my time - it takes up five small portions of my time, which really adds up.

    @derula said:

    I have a theory. Did you often make a fuss trying
    to tell your boss that you need more time to test? Maybe the boss's plan
    is just to put you in his shows and show you there's absolutely nothing
    he can do to change it, even if he wanted, and it was planned from the
    start that you'll just have the title for this single project. Could
    that be it?
    My boss' aren't that clever.

    All of us have known about these projects for a while (there's actually a whole series of them planned to be ongoing for the next few years).  After the very first one, when I found out about all these upcoming projects, I started campaigning pretty heavily for a different project management process, saner schedules, in-house QA checkers, and so on.  I ran the numbers, made predictions and estimates, held meetings, explained the trade-offs - I did everything I could to make it clear as day that unless we made some serious changes, these projects would be one hellish disaster after the next and that our staff wouldn't be able to tolerate the workload.

    We would have had plenty of time if management here didn't mismanage projects like they do, if they listened to their staff about the workload and schedules, and if they weren't so disconnected from the reality of the work to be done.  In a nutshell:  Management under-schedules projects.  They say Project A will be done in one month.  Based on that they schedule Project B to start right after, and expect it to be done in two weeks.  Then they schedule Project C beginning just before Project B finishes.

    The reality is that Project A takes two and a half months.  But Project B still starts based on the original schedule which was based on invalid assumptions about how long it would take Project A to be completed.  So now it's all hands on deck as Project A and B are going at the same time, Project B takes three months instead of the two weeks in the schedule, and now Project C is going on too.  And everyone is months late on the projects, there's an insane amount of work, the sales reps just made a huge sale to a customer of a product that doesn't exist yet with a hard and fast delivery date, and everyone is going mad with stress.

    And that's just if we had projects A, B, and C.  In reality, we have about a thousand or so projects going on at one time (I work on the project scheduling system, so I know a lot more about the realities of the ongoing projects than management does).  Virtually every project is late.  And more projects are added every week.  We've fired people because they couldn't keep up with the workload, people have quit, and one person ended up in the hospital due to stress-related illness.

    Management still hasn't quite got the message.

    tbh - even though the last project as awful, I still managed to do a pretty darn good job.  I think that's part of the reason for putting me in charge of these upcoming projects now. My main concern is getting quality product to the customers, and doing work I can be proud of.  If management doesn't like that, then they can fire me. It would only speed up the inevitable collapse.

    @ObiWayneKenobi said:

     Given your avatar (Final Fantasy 1 Kraken right, either Origins or DS version?  I think I see his cape), I would think that you would be the one summoning a demon to destroy the world...

    Yeah; it's from one of the remakes.  I have lots of books on ancient history, language, religion (and magic).  Sadly, none of my attempts to bring about the end of days has been successful thus far.  I think I'm doing the incantations wrong.  Do you have any idea what a pain it is for a native English-speaker to make all those glottal stops?

    @UrzaMTG said:

    This seems relevant:


    <snip>
    Believe it or not, I have learned a lot from Dilbert.  Rather, Wally, specifically.  He does have some great advice that saves a lot of stress, AND you come out looking better to management than your naive peers who still believe in meritocracy.

    @Matt Westwood said:

    You're bound to find bugs. Although you've
    been given only 2.5 weeks to QA the whole shebang, when it does take 3
    months you need just to say, "We would have got it done in 2.5 weeks
    if only those useless programmers had got off their fat behinds and a)
    coded it properly in the first place, and b) fixed the damn things when
    we found them - but no ..."


    Oh, and polish up that CV.
    Considering the developers are in India, and they have bee relatively responsive to the changes I've requested, I think they're doing an alright job.  One of the big issues here is that the bosses are in charge of the design (graphical, look-and-feel, etc.) and they keep changing their mind.  In the last project, we started at pre-alpha, and got all the way up to Gold #6 (yes - that's 6 Gold deliveries.  No, it doesn't make sense.). In Gold #4 they'd say "hmm... I really don't think that apostrophe should be there. Let me check the Chicago Manual of Style. Nope - we've got to change it."  In Gold #5 they'd say "I don't like the way that button looks.  Let's move it over here."  In Gold #6 they'd say "Actually, I like it the way it was before, let's move it back".  And so on, and so on.

    I get phone calls, emails, for job offers every day - and, also tbh, I don't think my CV is that great, or that I am all that technically skilled.  And yet they're offering me nearly double what I make here.  To top it off:  even though I make jack-squat for the work I do, compared to other companies, and the cost of living where I am (Southern California, by the beach) is insanely high ($1,2000 dollar a month rent, anyone?) I am still one of the higher-paid non-management employees. My employer just does not pay competitively, and I'm amazed at all these people working here who could be making a lot more elsewhere with better working conditions.

     



  • @KrakenLover said:

    My employer just does not pay competitively, and I'm amazed at all these people working here who could be making a lot more elsewhere with better working conditions.

    But... you still work there... so...

    Maybe they're drugging the food somehow?



  •  @blakeyrat said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    My employer just does not pay competitively, and I'm amazed at all these people working here who could be making a lot more elsewhere with better working conditions.

    But... you still work there... so...

    Maybe they're drugging the food somehow?

    I think it's partly because I'm a masochist.  I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy.  I like complaining, but also like struggling against overwhelming odds to see how well I do.  It's also kind of fun seeing what stupid thing management will do next, or make bets on how long the new person will last before they've either had enough and quite or totally break down.  It's not a terrible place to work as long as you don't take things seriously, understand that you're in an environment where you'll never win and be happy, and that you have to laugh at how absurd it all is.  If you treat it like a game to be mastered, then it can be pretty enjoyable.  Sadly, my coworkers still treat working here as serious business, and actually think that if they work hard and don't complain, that they'll be recognized and be promoted/get raises.  Poor deluded fools.

    But an added benefit is that I get to see first-hand what NOT to do as a manager or when running a business, so it's a learning experience too.  You know, not just learning from other people's success, but also from their failures.

    Plus, when I'm older, I'll have a lot of awesome WTF stories to tell and anecdotes to use in meetings when I get a better job somewhere else.

     



  • @KrakenLover said:

    I think it's partly because I'm a masochist.  I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy.  I like complaining, but also like struggling against overwhelming odds to see how well I do.
    This was my first thought...@KrakenLover said:
    It's also kind of fun seeing what stupid thing management will do next, or make bets on how long the new person will last before they've either had enough and quite or totally break down.
    Just make sure all that "fun" doesn't drag you into an unemployment line if/when the company goes under.@KrakenLover said:
    It's not a terrible place to work as long as you don't take things seriously, understand that you're in an environment where you'll never win and be happy, and that you have to laugh at how absurd it all is.  If you treat it like a game to be mastered, then it can be pretty enjoyable.
    Sounds like my marriage...@KrakenLover said:
    But an added benefit is that I get to see first-hand what NOT to do as a manager or when running a business, so it's a learning experience too.  You know, not just learning from other people's success, but also from their failures.
    Too much of a "good" thing, isn't, um, good... I would think this would start to affect you subconsciously, no (bitter, negative attitude, etc.)?@KrakenLover said:
    Plus, when I'm older, I'll have a lot of awesome WTF stories to tell and anecdotes to use in meetings when I get a better job somewhere else.
    This is true.



  • @C-Octothorpe said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    But an added benefit is that I get to see first-hand what NOT to do as a manager or when running a business, so it's a learning experience too.  You know, not just learning from other people's success, but also from their failures.
    Too much of a "good" thing, isn't, um, good... I would think this would start to affect you subconsciously, no (bitter, negative attitude, etc.)?
    My experiences in the US public school system already made me bitter, gave me a negative attitude, and prepared me for this job like you wouldn't believe.

    The only difference between this place and my schools is that I get paid to do pointless busy-work, watch the people in charge make stupid decisions, and try to do good work with little chance of actual success.

     



  • @KrakenLover said:

    I get phone calls, emails, for job offers every day - and, also tbh, I
    don't think my CV is that great, or that I am all that technically
    skilled.  And yet they're offering me nearly double what I make here. 
    To top it off:  even though I make jack-squat for the work I do,
    compared to other companies, and the cost of living where I am (Southern
    California, by the beach) is insanely high ($1,2000 dollar a month
    rent, anyone?) I am still one of the higher-paid non-management
    employees. My employer just does not pay competitively, and I'm amazed
    at all these people working here who could be making a lot more
    elsewhere with better working conditions. 

    Do these jobs require moving or something?  Because I can sort of understand putting up with that crap to live near the beach, but if you can make twice as much and not have to move...

    @KrakenLover said:

    I think it's partly because I'm a masochist.  I'm not happy unless I'm unhappy.

     

    This is more on the level of those people who get their jollies inflicting permanent damage on their own body parts.  WTF stories are a job perk if your name is snoofle and you get paid really well for dealing with it; otherwise they're an affliction, like having a splitting headache every single day.



  • @havokk said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    Polish up your CV.  Then Czech out!




  • @DaveK said:

    @havokk said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    Polish up your CV.  Then Czech out!
    I LOLed...



  • @Justice said:

    Do these jobs require moving or something?  Because I can sort of understand putting up with that crap to live near the beach, but if you can make twice as much and not have to move...
    Yeah, they require moving. Well, some of them do.  Right now I'm not even living near the beach, and actually commute an hour and a half to work (about 3 hours of commute each day, if the traffic is bad).

    @Justice said:
    This is more on the level of those people who get their jollies inflicting permanent damage on their own body parts.  WTF stories are a job perk if your name is snoofle and you get paid really well for dealing with it; otherwise they're an affliction, like having a splitting headache every single day.
    Like always, your mileage may vary.  As for me, misery is my pleasure.  And posting here is cathartic enough to help compensate for most of the despair that doesn't otherwise get converted into perverted joy.

    EDIT:  That's not to say those other offers aren't very tempting, and that I don't lay awake at night some times fantasizing about how I would quit.



  • @KrakenLover said:

    Do you have any idea what a pain it is for a native English-speaker to make all those glottal stops?

    You're just from the wrong part of the native English-speaking world. Glottal stops are part of the accent in south-east England.



  • @pjt33 said:

    @KrakenLover said:
    Do you have any idea what a pain it is for a native English-speaker to make all those glottal stops?

    You're just from the wrong part of the native English-speaking world. Glottal stops are part of the accent in south-east England.
    I did not know that.

    Stupid multiculturalism and global interconnectedness making me learn new things about people who live outside the USA.



  • @DaveK said:

    @havokk said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    Polish up your CV.  Then Czech out!

     

    You need to be Hungary for new challenges. 

     



  • @DaveK said:

    Polish up your CV.  Then Czech out!


    No one wants to be a wage Slav for life.



  • @RTapeLoadingError said:

    @DaveK said:

    @havokk said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
     

    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.

    Polish up your CV.  Then Czech out!

     

    You need to be Hungary for new challenges. 

     

     

    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!

     

    Trying to figure out exactly what that means.  Near as I can tell, you said something and Blakey doesn't Bolivia.



  • @Mason Wheeler said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!

     

    Trying to figure out exactly what that means.  Near as I can tell, you said something and Blakey doesn't Bolivia.

     

    Oman, I hate these puns.

     



  • @Zemm said:

    @Mason Wheeler said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!

     

    Trying to figure out exactly what that means.  Near as I can tell, you said something and Blakey doesn't Bolivia.

     

    Oman, I hate these puns.

     

    Denmark this thread and ignore it

     



  • @RTapeLoadingError said:

    @Zemm said:

    @Mason Wheeler said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!

     

    Trying to figure out exactly what that means.  Near as I can tell, you said something and Blakey doesn't Bolivia.

     

    Oman, I hate these puns.

     

    Denmark this thread and ignore it

     

    Guinea a moment to work out how to do that.



  • @pjt33 said:

    @RTapeLoadingError said:

    @Zemm said:

    @Mason Wheeler said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    @El_Heffe said:
    @RTapeLoadingError said:
    @DaveK said:
    @havokk said:
    @dohpaz42 said:
    This definitely reeks of a no-win situation.
    Agreed. Polish up your CV and work on your networking.
    Polish up your CV. Then Czech out!
    You need to be Hungary for new challenges.
    But don't go Russian into something too quickly.

    Bangladesh!

     

    Trying to figure out exactly what that means.  Near as I can tell, you said something and Blakey doesn't Bolivia.

     

    Oman, I hate these puns.

     

    Denmark this thread and ignore it

     

    Guinea a moment to work out how to do that.

    You just gotta Prussia right button.


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