More Java, sorry



  • Copy on the Java download page made me laugh:

    @Some Oracle copywriter said:

    Why download Java?

    Java technology allows you to work and play in a secure computing environment.

    Java allows you to play online games, chat with people around the world, calculate your mortgage interest, and view images in 3D, just to name a few.

    After you've downloaded Java, visit java.com to check out Java in Action in your daily life.


    Java software for your computer, or the Java Runtime Environment, is also referred to as the Java Runtime, Runtime Environment, Runtime, JRE, Java Virtual Machine, Virtual Machine, Java VM, JVM, VM, or Java download.

    Bullet 2: just to name a few what? Obviously that sentence was not composed by an English speaker.

    Footer: Java Runtime Environment is also referred to as Slow As Hell, That Weird Coffee Cup Thing In My Taskbar, An Annoyance, That Thing Lotus Notes Uses To Run Even Worse, A Piece Of Shit, or Ted.

    Protip: if your product has 37 different names, you might have a branding issue.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    @Some Oracle copywriter said:

    Why download Java?

    Java allows you to play online games, chat with people around the world, calculate your mortgage interest, and view images in 3D, just to name a few.

    Bullet 2: just to name a few what? Obviously that sentence was not composed by an English speaker.

    It's a lot better than "I could care less about..." Anyways, it's pretty clear that it's implying a few answers to the question in the header.



  •  Secure computer environment?  I'm fucking confused.

    Java has done nothing but introduce security holes into my network.

    Additionally some versions have bugs that cause a PC to hang when you try to GPO an update for Java.  Really great software.  Gotta rank it up there with Adobe Flash in terms of shit-baggery.



  • @Volcanon said:

    Secure computer environment? I'm fucking confused.

    Java has done nothing but introduce security holes into my network.

    No kidding. The only virus I've gotten in the last decade used Java as its vector. SO SECURE.



  •  You'd think by now someone else would've come up with a virtual environment that performs well and can run on any platform, and is secure and stable.  If anyone ever did, Java would die.  Fast.



  • You mean like .Net?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Sutherlands said:

    You mean like .Net?

    Problem is that the only people making runtimes are Microsoft (who don't particularly care for any operating systems they don't own) and the Great Unwashed Masses. If Microsoft would make a token investment of money and manpower in Mono and make it the official implementation on Linux and Mac, and port the compact framework to Android (Crapple won't allow it in their little walled garden, unfortunately), they could slaughter Java like the dog that it is, consigning it to the same enterprise-legacy oblivion inhabited by COBOL and FORTRAN.



  • @Weng said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    You mean like .Net?

    Problem is that the only people making runtimes are Microsoft (who don't particularly care for any operating systems they don't own) and the Great Unwashed Masses. If Microsoft would make a token investment of money and manpower in Mono and make it the official implementation on Linux and Mac, and port the compact framework to Android (Crapple won't allow it in their little walled garden, unfortunately), they could slaughter Java like the dog that it is, consigning it to the same enterprise-legacy oblivion inhabited by COBOL and FORTRAN.
    I agree, I think they should definitely make an implementation for Mac, and sure, Android.  I don't know about the amount of work required to make a "standard" implementation for Linux.  But I would love* to be able to code stuff in .Net that runs on Mac.

    * I don't actually code client applications.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @Sutherlands said:

    I don't know about the amount of work required to make a "standard" implementation for Linux.
    Just keep Mono bumped to full capability at all times and make sure it's precisely API-compatible. Let the opensource people deal with the packaging issues.



  • @Weng said:

    @Sutherlands said:

    You mean like .Net?

    Problem is that the only people making runtimes are Microsoft (who don't particularly care for any operating systems they don't own) and the Great Unwashed Masses. If Microsoft would make a token investment of money and manpower in Mono and make it the official implementation on Linux and Mac, and port the compact framework to Android (Crapple won't allow it in their little walled garden, unfortunately), they could slaughter Java like the dog that it is, consigning it to the same enterprise-legacy oblivion inhabited by COBOL and FORTRAN.
     

    And get promptly hauled into court by Sun, because that's the only way anyone competes with Microsoft is to make sure that Microsoft isn't allowed to make something better than their shit.

     


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

     Sun no longer exists. Oracle ate them. I doubt Oracle relies on Java to drive enough business to make a legal clash of the titans be even the slightest option.



  • @Weng said:

    Sun no longer exists. Oracle ate them. I doubt Oracle relies on Java to drive enough business to make a legal clash of the titans be even the slightest option.

    Google will be relieved.



  • @Master Chief said:

     You'd think by now someone else would've come up with a virtual environment that performs well and can run on any platform, and is secure and stable.  If anyone ever did, Java would die.  Fast.


    You forgot "has comprehensive libraries". That's the real advantage Java has over other portable platforms.



  • @pjt33 said:

    @Master Chief said:

     You'd think by now someone else would've come up with a virtual environment that performs well and can run on any platform, and is secure and stable.  If anyone ever did, Java would die.  Fast.

    You forgot "has comprehensive libraries". That's the real advantage Java has over other portable platforms.
    Are you implying that .Net doesn't?



  • @Sutherlands said:

    @pjt33 said:

    @Master Chief said:

     You'd think by now someone else would've come up with a virtual environment that performs well and can run on any platform, and is secure and stable.  If anyone ever did, Java would die.  Fast.

    You forgot "has comprehensive libraries". That's the real advantage Java has over other portable platforms.
    Are you implying that .Net doesn't?

    Are you implying that .Net is portable?



  • BoonDoggle. The only portable framework you'll ever need is SSRR. A better search I never knew. A better platform I never knew.



  • @boomzilla said:

    Are you implying that .Net is portable?
    Are you asking if the CLI implementation for Windows is portable? Then no.  Are you asking if code compiled into CLI is portable? Then yes.  There are CLI implementations for different platforms, and the spec is public, so there's nothing stopping a version being made for a mainframe.



  • "Just to name a few" is acceptable English in my country. I'm not sure it is good English, however.

    As for those "also referred to as"; I use "Virtual Machine", VM" and "runtime" often in my job but I am sure as hell not referring to Sun's product



  • @havokk said:

    "Just to name a few" is acceptable English in my country. I'm not sure it is good English, however.

    Just so it's clear, the phrase itself is perfectly acceptable, but it lacked context that should be there.  If they had asked "What reasons should you download Java?" then it would have been an acceptable response.  But they asked "Why download Java?", so there is nothing that says what they're naming.  You can infer that it should be "just to name a few [reasons]", but that's why it's poor English.



  • @havokk said:

    "Just to name a few" is acceptable English in my country.

    Really? Without saying what few? Had it said "Java has many awesome features. It has garbage collection, virtualization, and a JIT compiler just to name a few." it would be fine I guess, but it more said "Java is awesome. It has object orientation, exceptions and a specialized string datatype just to name a few." A few what? Nobody says the construct doesn't exist, just that it's used in a way that doesn't make any sense.



    Edit: Kiefers beat me to it :(


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    Y'all are thinking about this wrong. The RIGHT way to think about it is, when you're installing Java, is to say "Java Java Java Java Java Java!" like the dog in that Beggin' Strips commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CErapf79rqM


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @FrostCat said:

    Y'all are thinking about this wrong. The RIGHT way to think about it is, when you're installing Java, is to say "Java Java Java Java Java Java!" like the dog in that Beggin' Strips commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CErapf79rqM
    Fun fact: I have a textbook called "Java Java Java" on my shelf.



  • @Weng said:

    @FrostCat said:

    Y'all are thinking about this wrong. The RIGHT way to think about it is, when you're installing Java, is to say "Java Java Java Java Java Java!" like the dog in that Beggin' Strips commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CErapf79rqM
    Fun fact: I have a textbook called "Java Java Java" on my shelf.

    Fun fact: I'm snacking on Beggin' Strips right now.



  • @Weng said:

    [ . . . ] consigning it to the same enterprise-legacy oblivion inhabited by COBOL and FORTRAN.

    FORTRAN?  Enterprisey?  AFAIK it exists not so much in enterprise-legacy oblivion as in an eternal limbo of poorly-coded academic heavy-duty number crunching applications written by non-programming scientists... Infinite GOTOs in ivory-tower beardsville.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

     The older of my college professors had stories about how every old fart in the country, themselves included, who knew some fortran getting outrageous offers from various industries (financial chief among them) to audit and fix ye olde Y2K issue.

    I have little reason to disbelieve, because this sounds like EXACTLY the kind of stupid that happens whenver the financial industry meets computers (the latest example being 'wish it were two-factor' authentication)



  • @Weng said:

     The older of my college professors had stories about how every old fart in the country, themselves included, who knew some fortran getting outrageous offers from various industries (financial chief among them) to audit and fix ye olde Y2K issue.

    I have little reason to disbelieve [ . . . ]

    I don't doubt you, I just hadn't heard that sort of story told about anything other than COBOL before.

    Did many of them accept the offers?  Letting those sort of "coders" loose on critical systems could end up creating more problems than it solved... wonder if they decided to "fix" the y2k problem by switching date fields to use floating point?

     



  • @DaveK said:

    Infinite GOTOs in ivory-tower beardsville.
     

    Finally, a title for my experimental alt-rock album!



  • Post was mediocre as hell until the "protip", which was just so stupid it made the rest of the post look hilarious in comparison. 2/10, and before you claim otherwise, I don't even like Java.


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