Rightmove email address confirmation



  • Lots of web signup forms now have this "Confirm your email address" by asking you to enter your email address twice to ensure you typed it correctly.

    The problem is that a lot of people are typing there email address once, and then going CTRL-A, TAB, CTRL-V. 

    Rightmove.co.uk http://www.findaproperty.com/register.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0 have addressed this problem by disabling the ability to paste into the second field (but you can still paste into the former)

    1) Are people really getting that many bounced emails from people pasting there email into the second field? 

    2) Whats wrong with the tried and tested technique "We sent you an email, click the link inside the email to activate your account" ? 

    3) Considering I create a new email address for each website I sign upto, this means I can paste into the first field, but have to manually type into the second. I can't be bothered, so I cancel the signup process. Your competitors have just got my details instead. 

    Why the hell do webmasters keep pulling this shit?


    [mod - corrected the URL from here - PJH]


  • It's a result of the annual come-together of the "It worked for passwords and emails are just as important as passwords, so it must work for emails, too" school of logical thinking with the "If the user doesn't do what you want, you didn't apply enough force" school of UI design.



    Next step will be a box where you have to draw your email adress. Twice.



  • middle button works fine here. Anyway, if I could travel there I'd totally stab them in the eyes with a montblanc (do they have another use?)



  • Last time I checked though you could still paste into password fields though...

    Not being able to do so (mostly games that create their own UI widgets for whatever reason) is probably worse for security because one can't use tools like KeePass.



  • For me, my browser usually recognizes the first field as an email field and fills it in for me, but I still have to paste into the second. Nevermind the obvious question of why it doesn't auto-fill both, but I imagine this is common enough that most users are just annoyed by the second.



    The correct solution here is to get rid of the second box entirely and just add a note in red: "Make sure your email address has been typed correctly." or some such. It's not like a password where you can't re-read it closely to make sure it's correct.



  • Well this is embarassing, I actually quoted the wrong website :o

    The website should have been: 

    http://www.findaproperty.com/register.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0



  •  ctrl-v & middle mouse button do not work.

     

    But drag & drop does.



  • @Mole said:

    Why the hell do webmasters keep pulling this shit?
     

    Because otherwise their clients get upset. When it's a choice between getting paid or your micro-managing client going to someone else who will implement his crazy ideas about UI...

    I inherited a project which is even worse. You have to type your e-mail twice (because both fields disallow pasting) and then it sends an e-mail with a validation code.



  •  I had to add extra checks to an email field and the "type it in again" field to one of my client's sites (inherited). One of his first signups used "username@company name.com" (note the space) so of course he didn't get the confirmation. But of course I would never stuff around by disabling pastes (generally I'd say people smart enough to copy+paste are generally smart enough to type their email address correctly: most people still navigate using the mouse (clicking on fields and submit) instead of tab and enter.)



  • @Zemm said:

    most people still navigate using the mouse (clicking on fields and submit) instead of tab and enter.)



    This is because on most web pages if you use tab and enter you end up trying to type in the label field rather than the next field to enter. And I've seen enough screens in my time where the tab key navigates like a deranged spider on psychedlic drugs to make me more than a little leery of the tab key on a site I haven't been to before



  • @PSWorx said:

    Next step will be a box where you have to draw your email adress. Twice.
    Bad idea. Using the same input method leaves too much room for error. Better to use two completely separate input methods, to avoid the possibility of replicating the same error twice. Like, for example, for the first input you have to enter you e-mail address using morse code, for the second you have to upload a picture of your e-mail address built out of LEGO (on a wooden table of course).



  • @tchize said:

    middle mouse button
     

    You and the other guy say that as though middle-paste is the default action for any middle button.



  • @dhromed said:

    @tchize said:

    middle mouse button
    You and the other guy say that as though middle-paste is the default action for any middle button.
    You mean it isn't and that the

    # disable middle-mouse button; stop it ctrl-Ving
    xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 6 3 4 5 2"
    
    lines in my .bashrc aren't necessary?


  •  They are not necessary under any sane operating system, no 😉



  • @thosrtanner said:

    This is because on most web pages if you use tab and enter you end up trying to type in the label field rather than the next field to enter.

    And this is why there is a flashing cursor (aka text insertion point). Look before you type.



  • @Zemm said:

    @thosrtanner said:
    This is because on most web pages if you use tab and enter you end up trying to type in the label field rather than the next field to enter.

    And this is why there is a flashing cursor (aka text insertion point). Look before you type.

    That kind of defeats the purpose of the hunt-and-peck method of typing, no? Bad UI design for you!



  • @PJH said:

    @dhromed said:

    @tchize said:

    middle mouse button
    You and the other guy say that as though middle-paste is the default action for any middle button.
    You mean it isn't
     

    What OS?

     



  • @dhromed said:

    What OS?
    Was kidding, but if you're interested it is the default for KDE under PCLinuxOS.



  • @Zemm said:

    @thosrtanner said:
    This is because on most web pages if you use tab and enter you end up trying to type in the label field rather than the next field to enter.

    And this is why there is a flashing cursor (aka text insertion point). Look before you type.



    I do. And then I start typing, looking at the screen, and I expect when I've filled up the box, the cursor will go to the next place I'm meant to put data (or it will when I've hit tab). That's a fairly natural expectation, to have the cursor move to somewhere you can type in the same direction your eyes are moving (down, usually). Not to do this is painful for the user.

     Also, the cursor doesn't flash when the selection is a label. The label field gets highlighted with a little box, and there is no cursor.So you spend quite some time looking for the flashing line to no avail.

    It is faster to type and use special keys than it is to use the mouse and point/click, but not when the user interface is actively attempting to confuse the hell out of you.



  • @Mole said:

    2) Whats wrong with the tried and tested technique "We sent you an email, click the link inside the email to activate your account" ?
     

    From the description, creating an account gives no immediate benefit to the user. Because of this, they don't want to slow people down by forcing them to go to their e-mail clients while signing up.

    As e-mail addresses are a major income stream for the site, they still want you to get them right. They think this will help. I think NoScript is pretty useful.

     



  • @__moz said:

    Because of this, they don't want to slow people down by forcing them to go to their e-mail clients while signing up.
    Or forcing unrelated 3rd parties to report their spam because some moron (deliberately or otherwise) put someone else's email address in there, from what you describe....



  • @PJH said:

    @dhromed said:
    What OS?
    Was kidding, but if you're interested it is the default for MIT X Windows and any OS that uses X for its GUI and was developed by people who think that the fine folk at MIT did a great job.

    FTFY.



  • @thosrtanner said:

    Also, the cursor doesn't flash when the selection is a label. The label field gets highlighted with a little box, and there is no cursor.So you spend quite some time looking for the flashing line to no avail.
     

    So you hit tab again to get the text field. Still quicker than moving your hands off the keyboard and onto the mouse, locating the mouse cursor, moving it onto the next text field, clicking, and moving your hand back to the keyboard. Tabbing to labels is not commonly done (in my experience) - but sometimes there's links within the form and these are within the tab order. Are you using some weird browser treats <label> as in the tab order or something?



  • @lolwtf said:

    For me, my browser usually recognizes the first field as an email field and fills it in for me, but I still have to paste into the second. Nevermind the obvious question of why it doesn't auto-fill both, but I imagine this is common enough that most users are just annoyed by the second.



    The correct solution here is to get rid of the second box entirely and just add a note in red: "Make sure your email address has been typed correctly." or some such. It's not like a password where you can't re-read it closely to make sure it's correct.

    I made a website where there is no confirm for either email or password- it just signs you in or creates an account. Is this a bad idea? Let me know if you want the link.



  • @Decker97 said:

    I made a website where there is no confirm for either email or password- it just signs you in or creates an account. Is this a bad idea?
    It's a bad idea for the email, since you should confirm that the email address being entered belongs to the person entering it, and not someone else who doesn't know about your site, and doesn't want email from you.



    By all means store the email address, but you should send at most one email, with a unique token in it (http://www.example.com/confirm_emailaddress?token=f445fbe0-e044-11e0-9572-0800200c9a66) with a brief explanation of the purpose of the email and never send any more email to that address until that token comes back to you. No extra password reminders, nothing promoting your site, just that email.



    In fact, don't even require an email address for user registration - make it entirely optional. (If that means that a user cannot get, say, password resets unless they supply one, then tough on the user.) Of course, you should allow users to add/change their email addresses, but on every change, repeat the token handshake.



  • @PJH said:



    By all means store the email address, but you should send at most one email, with a unique token in it (http://www.example.com/confirm_emailaddress?token=f445fbe0-e044-11e0-9572-0800200c9a66) with a brief explanation of the purpose of the email and never send any more email to that address until that token comes back to you. No extra password reminders, nothing promoting your site, just that email.
    I clicked your link and now it tells me your account at example.com is validated!




  • @Mole said:

     They are not necessary under any sane operating system, no 😉

    to be honest I really miss the ability to copy just by selecting text and pasting with one click when I'm not at my system. I don't know what your sane operating systems think to not implement this even in 2011.



  • @spamcourt said:

    I don't know what your sane operating systems think to not implement this even in 2011.
     

    INFORMATIVE TROLL FOOD: With the middle button on a sane OS, I create/destroy tabs, open links in new tabs, smooth-autoscroll, and myriad other features in a diverse range of applications, all far more important than a shitty paste.

    Auto-copy when selecting is complete idiocy as it overwrites whatever I had on my clipboard before. :'(



  • @dhromed said:

    @spamcourt said:

    I don't know what your sane operating systems think to not implement this even in 2011.
     

    INFORMATIVE TROLL FOOD: With the middle button on a sane OS, I create/destroy tabs, open links in new tabs, smooth-autoscroll, and myriad other features in a diverse range of applications, all far more important than a shitty paste.

    It's context. Middle click which pastes into a text box will create/destroy tabs, open links in new tabs etc.

    Auto-copy when selecting is complete idiocy as it overwrites whatever I had on my clipboard before. :'(

    That one is annoying...


  • @PJH said:

    It's context. Middle click which pastes into a text box will create/destroy tabs, open links in new tabs etc.
     

    That is true; hadn't thought of that.



  • Putty uses select auto copy, and right click paste. Just to be different from other windows programs?

    However, I like Mac just because it has an extra meta-key. Cmd-c for copy still allows ctrl-c for abort! But no insert key confuses my wife.

    Linux can have several clipboards so one can use mouse select auto copy, then keyboard select, ctrl-c, middle click usually pastes the first one and ctrl-v pastes the second one.



  •  @Zemm said:

    Putty uses select auto copy, and right click paste. Just to be different from other windows programs?

    cmd uses select and right click to copy and right click with nothing selected to paste. And doesn't handle line wrapping. And PowerShell does the same.



  • @pjt33 said:

    cmd uses select and right click to copy and right click with nothing selected to paste.

    My cmd gives a context menu for right click. And one can't even select without using "Mark" from this menu.

    OK, the option is "QuickEdit" mode - not default. So Putty is still Different™.



  • @Zemm said:

    So Putty is still Different™.
    It's configurable - look in Window -> Selection.



  • @Zemm said:

    Putty uses select auto copy, and right click paste. Just to be different from other windows programs?
     

     Well it's explained quite well in the documentation - whoever's maintaining it still thinks that Windows PC mice typically only have two buttons.

     I've pretty much given up on Putty and now just use Cygwin's OpenSSH client- of course, a better terminal editor helps with that

    Also sorry for the terrible formatting as I haven't added the TDWTF TinyMCE to this system's adblock list yet.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    Also sorry for the terrible formatting as I haven't added the TDWTF TinyMCE
    to this system's adblock list yet.
    Well you could always go the terribly complcated route of disabling it in your profile on here and use the plain text editor.



    It may require that you learn the obscure cross between bbcode and HTML that sorta works on here, in that editor though. For YMMV values of 'work' of course.



  • @MiffTheFox said:

    Well it's explained quite well in the documentation

    Documentation?! WTF?

    @MiffTheFox said:

    Also sorry for the terrible formatting as I haven't added the TDWTF TinyMCE to this system's adblock list yet.

    TDWTF is all about bad formatting. Of course I'm currently using Chrome and don't get the option for TinyMCE. I was using the iPad and that's even harder due to annoying keyboard for inserting <HTML>.

    I don't use Putty a lot anyway - I have a Mac at work (Terminal) and Ubuntu on my netbook. But my "big" computer at home is Windows 7 and occasionally I need to SSH into various servers. CBF using Cygwin.



  • @Zemm said:

    @thosrtanner said:

    Also, the cursor doesn't flash when the selection is a label. The label field gets highlighted with a little box, and there is no cursor.So you spend quite some time looking for the flashing line to no avail.
     

    So you hit tab again to get the text field. Still quicker than moving your hands off the keyboard and onto the mouse, locating the mouse cursor, moving it onto the next text field, clicking, and moving your hand back to the keyboard. Tabbing to labels is not commonly done (in my experience) - but sometimes there's links within the form and these are within the tab order. Are you using some weird browser treats <label> as in the tab order or something?

     

     I don't expect to tab into label fields, whether or not there's a link there. It's just crap user experience. And it takes more time working out where the hell the cursor has gone than it does to move the mouse.



  • @thosrtanner said:

     I don't expect to tab into label fields, whether or not there's a link there. It's just crap user experience. And it takes more time working out where the hell the cursor has gone than it does to move the mouse.

    FWIW, I believe tabbing into label fields is an accessibility feature used by screen readers; you "tab" into the label and the screen reader can read aloud to the hearing impaired what the name of the field is. Granted, this definitely should have been handled differently - i.e., you tab into a field, and the screen reader knows to read the associated label; though, I guess that would mean more work for the screen reader developer, and we all know that developers aren't always that intuitive. At the very least, it would be nice to have an option in the accessibility configuration to skip tabbing into labels.

    If only we lived in a perfect world. Sigh.



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    If only we lived in a perfect world. Sigh.
     

    In a perfect world, there would be no blind people.



  • @dohpaz42 said:

    you "tab" into the label and the screen reader can read aloud to the hearing impaired what the name of the field is.
     

    Was that how you fulfilled your community service?



  • @Justice said:

    @dohpaz42 said:

    you "tab" into the label and the screen reader can read aloud to the hearing impaired what the name of the field is.
     

    Was that how you fulfilled your community service?

    No, for my community service I was the seeing eye dog. Unfortunately, they frowned upon me darting out into rush-hour traffic. 🙂


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